Increasing Alk & Decreasing Ph, And Excessive Foaming

[SuzyQ442]

Hi,

Great site btw, very informative.

Although I have read pretty much every post regarding Alk & PH issues, I can't get a grasp on what I can really do to stabilize my alk & ph levels. Last readings were: CH 210 Alk 40 PH 7.8. Sanitizer is bromine, 2 step (tablets & activator). Bromine level is difficult to maintain at a proper level (but I'll address that issue once the alk & ph have been balanced!) There is an ozonator installed & fully functional. I also wish to mention this is a new spa (a little over a month), and I am new to the spa's chemistry, although we had a pool for some years which I found easy to maintain at correct levels.

I have read the posts regarding PH & Alk balancing problems - especially Nitro's approach to water maintenance (3 times just to make sure I got it straight), and effect of aeration on PH. However, I can't get my alk level up to about 70 or 80 without having my Ph going off the chart (8.4). I have an average test kit (not Taylor yet, hard to obtain here in Canada, but trying very hard to get one), but can check for bromine, alk, ph & acid demand (very useful in this case). I also went to various pool/spa professionals just to confirm my personal readings from my test kit, which seem pretty accurate in view of the results they give me. They use the tests specifically designed from Bromine.

I haven't yet added any boric acid as buffer, since I can't get a good hold on the pH & alk levels. As soon as I add PH reducer, the alk goes down also (which is to be expected), and if I add bicarb to increase the alk, the pH goes off the chart (and stays there). I have to add loads of acid to bring the ph down, and then I'm back to square one - low to very low alk. At some point, I kept the alk at 80, but the PH was always over 8.2. What can I do?

I don't know if this can be a symptom of the alk problem, but for the last 24 hours, there is a huge amount of white foam in the tub when the jets are on - albeit the water is crystal clear when the jets are off. I understand the principle of body oils, organic waste etc. and so I have tried shocking, twice, to no avail. Still foaming like crazy. Again, any thoughts?

Catalina Spa, model Raptor, 440 gallons capacity.

Thanks in advance for your input!

[waterbear]

baking soda will cause the pH to increase but it is best to wait about 48 hours after adding it to let the pH and TA stabilize. Then you want to add just enough acid to drop the pH without dropping TA. It takes a LOT less acid to drop the pH than it does to drop TA by a measurable amount (with drop based kits this would be 10 ppm) so if you are seeing your TA drop then you are adding TOO MUCH ACID. I would suggest using a test with with an acid demand test such as the Taylor K-2106 for bromine.

As for your bromine levels...did you add sodium bromide to the tub on filling to create your bromide bank? If you did not is is next to impossible to maintain a bromine level in the water for several weeks. I would suggest going to both the hot tub water chemistry section AND the swimming pool water chemistry section of the forum and reading ALL the Hot TOPICS at the top of those sections of the forum. I think you will find the answer to your problems there.

For the Taylor kit in Canada a good reliable retailer is this one. I am sure there are others but I have had dealings with this company and they have a good track record. As far as their prices go, they are standard for Canada where the prices for Taylor kits are set by the master exclusive Canadian distributor, Lowry and Associates, who set the prices much higher than in the US.

[SuzyQ442]

baking soda will cause the pH to increase but it is best to wait about 48 hours after adding it to let the pH and TA stabilize. Then you want to add just enough acid to drop the pH without dropping TA. It takes a LOT less acid to drop the pH than it does to drop TA by a measurable amount (with drop based kits this would be 10 ppm) so if you are seeing your TA drop then you are adding TOO MUCH ACID. I would suggest using a test with with an acid demand test such as the Taylor K-2106 for bromine.

Will continue working on this using your suggestins. I can already test for acid demand, which helps, and working on obtaining the K-2106.

As for your bromine levels...did you add sodium bromide to the tub on filling to create your bromide bank? If you did not is is next to impossible to maintain a bromine level in the water for several weeks. I would suggest going to both the hot tub water chemistry section AND the swimming pool water chemistry section of the forum and reading ALL the Hot TOPICS at the top of those sections of the forum. I think you will find the answer to your problems there.

I didn't add the Sodium Bromide since the pool guy hadn't mentioned I had to do that (just put in the pucks and use the activator he said). Of course, I hadn't seen this forum yet. Since then, I have read the posts you suggest, also very helpful, but can I add the sodium bromine even if it isn't a "fresh" fill?

For the Taylor kit in Canada a good reliable retailer is this one. I am sure there are others but I have had dealings with this company and they have a good track record. As far as their prices go, they are standard for Canada where the prices for Taylor kits are set by the master exclusive Canadian distributor, Lowry and Associates, who set the prices much higher than in the US.

Thanks for the retailer suggestion, but I don't see any link ...?

Thanks so much for your input, it is GREATLY appreciated!

Edited August 1, 2011 by SuzyQ442

[waterbear]

Sorry about that.

Piscines-Apollo.com

You can add the sodium bromide now and remember it on fresh fills. Otherwise it takes several weeks to have enough bromide ions in the water for the oxidizer/activator to convert the bromide into bromine santizer. (In your case I will bet it is MPS since that is the most common activator used for bromine although I prefer to use chlorine as an 'activator. FWIW, if there is not bromide bank in the water there will be nothing to 'activate')

Until that happens it can be difficult to maintain the bromine level in the water.

[SuzyQ442]

Thanks for the link.

You are correct, MPS is the activator, although I do have granular chlorine which I will be using when I have finished the bottle of MPS.

I guess I have my work cut out for me, especially where getting rid of the freakin' foam is concerned!

I just hope things will settle down when the water is properly balanced & enough sanitizer is in there.

Have a nice day!

[waterbear]

foam is probably because the sanitizer is low. MPS won't really help that much here. Shock with chlorine (liquid chlorine or laundry bleach is best). If your granular chlorine is lithium hypochlorite it is fine to use but VERY expen$ive. If it is cal hypo I would be careful because your calcium is already at 210 and it will cause it to rise more and your high pH can cause calcium carbonate to precipitate out and cloud the water.

If you have dichlor yo can use it but be aware that the cyanuric acid that stays behind can have some interaction with the bromine and form brominated isocyanurates. Unfortunately, they are not stable against UV light like the chlorinated isocyanurates are.

[SuzyQ442]

Ok so here is the update:

Taylor kit K-2106: Ordered from Apollo. With the Speedstir as a bonus for me. - whoo hoo! Thanks for the link.

TA up at 80.

PH still high at about 8.0 but will wait until the TA is really stable before adding any more acid.

CH: tested at the pool/spa store today. They said 150. Last time was 220. Now someone made a mistake somewhere. CH can't reduce that fast without draining some of the water, no? Can't wait to receive my kit and test it myself - twice or three times over, just to get a really accurate result!

Sodium bromide: 200ml added to spa. They only had liquid, at 35% - hope that's enough. Bottle said at startup, add 125 ml (4 oz) per 1000 litres. Spa is 440 gallons (1665 litres), i.e. about 1500 since not full to top. Hence the 200ml.

Bleach: 300 ml of 5.25% added, as per your recipe (5 tbsp per 100 gallons - estimated 400 gallons.

Bromine level presently off the chart - reading about 9 at 50% dilution with spring water (did not have distilled, and did not want to use tap - best I can figure with the OTO test), so about 18 at 100% concentration.

Spa jets working for 45 mins already.

Water still foaming like crazy when the jets are on (dissipates in a minute when the jets are off though). In how much time can I expect to see a change? a few hours or a couple of days?

After 4 or 5 hours with no cover, can I put the cover back on? Or should I leave it off overnight? Sounds like a fairly ridiculous question, but the forecast says rain for tonight and it's either maybe get loads of rainwater in there, plus all the debris flying around because of the wind, and the chemistry gets out of whack (again), or maybe risk damaging the cover? Or should it be ok?

I may seem a little insecure with these questions, but I just want to get the water up to par and jump in the tub with a nice martini once it's done - my reward, with a toast to you for your help!

[waterbear]

Ok so here is the update:

Taylor kit K-2106: Ordered from Apollo. With the Speedstir as a bonus for me. - whoo hoo! Thanks for the link.

TA up at 80.

This is fine for now. Leave it there and see how it goes.

PH still high at about 8.0 but will wait until the TA is really stable before adding any more acid.

Ditto on pH. 8.0 is fine for bromine but you don't want it going higher. Aeration is what makes pH increase BTW.

CH: tested at the pool/spa store today. They said 150. Last time was 220. Now someone made a mistake somewhere.

Probably. Welcome to pool store testing. Don't lose any sleep over this until you get your kit. Anything between 130 -400 ppm is fine. You want it high enough to discorage foaming but not so high it encorages scale deposits at higher pH. Usually, if you are not filling with soft water you don't need additional calcium in an acrylic spa. It's really only important for plaster spas and pools.

CH can't reduce that fast without draining some of the water, no? Can't wait to receive my kit and test it myself - twice or three times over, just to get a really accurate result!

Let me know when the kit comes and I will give you some pointers on testing calcium. In the mean time Taylor has howto vids on their website. Click pool/spa in the upper left and scroll down and view all the videos under the K-2006 testkit heading except for the CYA test (you don't test CYA with bromine) and in the chorine test ignore the second part when you test combined chlorine (bromine testing is the same as free chlorine testing). The two kits are identical except for no CYA test in the K-2106 and the FAS-DPD test is optimized for bromine testing instead of chlorine testing. All other tests in the two kits are EXACTLY the same. Also view the vids in the section about general test interferences. It is very valuable info!

Sodium bromide: 200ml added to spa. They only had liquid, at 35% - hope that's enough. Bottle said at startup, add 125 ml (4 oz) per 1000 litres. Spa is 440 gallons (1665 litres), i.e. about 1500 since not full to top. Hence the 200ml.

Perfect!

Bleach: 300 ml of 5.25% added, as per your recipe (5 tbsp per 100 gallons - estimated 400 gallons.

Bromine level presently off the chart - reading about 9 at 50% dilution with spring water (did not have distilled, and did not want to use tap - best I can figure with the OTO test), so about 18 at 100% concentration.

As it should be! So far everything is perfect!

Spa jets working for 45 mins already.

Water still foaming like crazy when the jets are on (dissipates in a minute when the jets are off though). In how much time can I expect to see a change? a few hours or a couple of days?

Some foaming IS normal as long as it does not create a 'bubble bath' effect and it dissipates as soon as the jets are off. It might be from skin oils, detergent left in swimsuits (a good case for nude hottubbing!), or just organics building up in the water. Shocking will helpl get rid of some of the organics and help with the foaming. Also, you might want to pick up a scumbug to float in the spa. It is a special oil loving sponge that absorbs a lot of stuff that would foma from the water surface. They are cheap and work well! You should be able to get one locally but if you can't just search on the net for the best price since it is variable and I have seen them as low as $4.95 US and as high as $8.95 us.

You need to have patience for the shocking to burn off the organics and since you have had low santizer for a while it might take a second shocking. When the bromine is below 10 ppm then you can cover the spa again or go in.

After 4 or 5 hours with no cover, can I put the cover back on? Or should I leave it off overnight? Sounds like a fairly ridiculous question, but the forecast says rain for tonight and it's either maybe get loads of rainwater in there, plus all the debris flying around because of the wind, and the chemistry gets out of whack (again), or maybe risk damaging the cover? Or should it be ok?

If you are going to get bad weather then cover it and uncover it when the weather clears. It's just common sense. Ideally you want to wait for the bromine to drop below 10 ppm which usually takes only a few hours in most cases, particularly if the spa is getting full sun light (which also helps burn up the organics in the water).

I may seem a little insecure with these questions, but I just want to get the water up to par and jump in the tub with a nice martini once it's done - my reward, with a toast to you for your help!

Not at all insecure. You are asking good questions and in no time you are going to be one of the "experts" on here helping other newbies!

The hardest part will be adjusting the floater to maintain the bromine level and this will also vary with tub usage so it's a bit of trial and error. Just take your time and wait a day or two for levels to stabilize when you adjust the floater.

[SuzyQ442]

Second update:

Taylor water testing videos: all watched (thanks for that btw, very helpful - can't wait to try it out).

TA: was at 90 this morning.

PH: was at 8.4. Added 15 gr dry acid to lower a little. TA down 80. PH high at 8.2. Waiting a while & will add another 15gr acid in a couple of hours.

CH not tested (waiting for kit). And for sure am not going back to the pool store.

Bromine: about 4.5 Floater is back in, set at 4.

Foam: still foaming, but is better than before. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "bubble bath effect" and wonder if I should shock again or not.

I have pictures, if there is any way I can send them to you. To me, it looks like a bubble bath, but as mentioned before, the foaming goes away promptly after the jets are turned off. In that regard, I already have the scumbug, has been in there for about 2 weeks but I think it was overwhelmed by the quantity of foam and just decided to go on strike! In any case, it's there. And yes, I believe in officially implementing a "no suit allowed" rule!(at least when the kids aren't around!)

So there you have it. We are getting there! Thanks!

[waterbear]

shocking again can't hurt and might just help the foaming problem. I suspect it was because of low sanitizer levels for an extended time.

[SuzyQ442]

Hi there Waterbear,

Well good news, Taylor kit has arrived and is fully functional

Water tested today: alk was at 50, ph 8.0 or higher (hard to distinguish - but intense red color); bromine at 7.5 (I have to adjust the floater) and CH is at 210 (so much for pool store test that said 150...). Tested the CH 3 times just to make sure, with once at 10ml sample just for the heck of it and to try out different methods! (I have to say, this is lots of fun for me, chemistry was a subject that I just adored when I was in school).

Ok so my question is: how can I really determine the exact ph even if it is off the chart? I added some bicarb to increase alk to 110 - purposefully, since I know I will be adding acid to reduce ph within the next day or 2. However, my ph skyrocketed (of course), and now, can't get a reading. If I do the acid demand test, 5 drops bring me to 7.6, and 8 drops (3 more) take me down to 7.0. So, 1 drop of acid demand is supposed to reduce PH by how much? 0.2? If so, my PH would be at 8.6?

Also, you had mentioned in a previous post "Let me know when the kit comes and I will give you some pointers on testing calcium.". So, the kit has come... any pointers? A question regarding the CH testing is do I have to add drops of the third reagent until sample becomes blue, or just bluish? 19 drops takes me to bluish purple, 21 drops to bright blue. According to the taylor instructional video, I would think 21 drops, but just wondering here. It's not that big a difference, but I do like to be precise - especially considering all the idiots out there doing sloppy testing; I figure I might as well learn to get it right!

Same questions goes for alk testing btw - do I stop at just pink or bright red?

Ah and tub is still foaming, even if bromine level fairly high and holding. Please explain what you mean by "bubble bath effect".

I will shock again with bleach, but will that affect my alk & ph? (i.e. should I stabilize ph & alk, or will shocking bring it all out of whack anyways?)

Thanks again for your input

Suzanne

[waterbear]

I added some bicarb to increase alk to 110 - purposefully, since I know I will be adding acid to reduce ph within the next day or 2.

You are going to need to lower the TA first since it takes more acid to drop the TA than the pH. You should not have raised it above about 80 ppm./ High TA WILL cause the pH to rise to about 8.2 to 8.4. Use the acid demand test to see how much acid is needed to bring the ph down to 7.0 (There are charts for acid demand in the back of the book that came with your kit). Add enough acid to drop the pN to 7.0. pH will rise on it's own from aeration from the jets. Check your TA. IF it is still too high then aerate to bring the pH back up to above 7.4 and add acid to bring it back to 7.0 and aerate. Repeat this until the TA is where you want it . You can use the spa while you are doing this procedure since your pH will stay within acceptable range. Once you get the TA to around 80 ppm you are fine.

For normal maintenance as long as the pH is below 8.0 it is fine for a bromine spa. When you need to lower it and not lower the TA use the acid demand test but only lower pH to about 7.6 since the lower you put the pH the faster it will rise.

However, my ph skyrocketed (of course), and now, can't get a reading. If I do the acid demand test, 5 drops bring me to 7.6, and 8 drops (3 more) take me down to 7.0.

refer to the charts in the back of the booklet that came with the kit on using the acid demand test.

Also, you had mentioned in a previous post "Let me know when the kit comes and I will give you some pointers on testing calcium.". So, the kit has come... any pointers?

Swirl the tube for at lease 10 seconds between drops or get a magnetic stirrer (worth every penny) to speed up the test. Testing calcium hardness can take a while if you do it properly. If you suspect high calcium (above about 300 ppm) use a 10 ml sample to save time and reagents. When the calcium is high 25 ppm precision is good enough. If you get a "floating endpoint" (purple color afer a fleeting blue color) then you might have metals in your water. Add 5-6 drops of the titrant to your sample BEFORE you add the calcium buffer or indicator and then titrate as usual. Be sure to add the initial 5 or 6 drops to your drop total.

A question regarding the CH testing is do I have to add drops of the third reagent until sample becomes blue, or just bluish? 19 drops takes me to bluish purple, 21 drops to bright blue. According to the taylor instructional video, I would think 21 drops, but just wondering here. It's not that big a difference, but I do like to be precise - especially considering all the idiots out there doing sloppy testing; I figure I might as well learn to get it right!

For ANY titration test the trick is to add drops until 1 more drop does not produce any more color change and then don't count the last drop. For example, with the calcium harndess test if it takes 21 drops to turn blue and 22 drops does not produce a further color change then don't count the 22nd drop and you titration was finished at 21 drops (and if you used a 25 ml sample that would be 210 ppm CH),

Same questions goes for alk testing btw - do I stop at just pink or bright red?

You stop when one more drop does not produce any further color change and then don't count the last drop...easy!

Ah and tub is still foaming, even if bromine level fairly high and holding. Please explain what you mean by "bubble bath effect".

Bubble that stay on the water surface and don't go away fast when the jets are off, just like a bubble bath!. It is caused by either a lot of organics in the water or by detergent in the tub from swimsuits. Your calcium is high enough to slow down foaming from organics and if the bubbles are transitory that is a normal effect from strong aeration as long as the bubbles disperse VERY quickly after the jets are off (30 seconds or less). If the bubbling persists then an enzyme might prove useful but they tend to be pricey.

I will shock again with bleach, but will that affect my alk & ph? (i.e. should I stabilize ph & alk, or will shocking bring it all out of whack anyways?)

No, There will be a temporary raising of pH and TA while shocking but it will return to normal once the santizer level returns to normal AND if you shock high enough the pH test will read high or off scale (bluish purple color) when the pH is actually fine SO do not worry about testing pH or TA until the sanitizer levels are back to normal!

Thanks again for your input

No problem, just tell me where to send the bill!

Suzanne

Happy tubbing. Remember, the main reason you have a tub is to relax in the water so don't stress too much about the chemistry. Bromine is pretty easy once you get the hang of it

[Samdy]

I was where you are at about 8 months ago, had the tub about 4 or 5 months then. Things seems out of control, always checking, always adjusting, always the water was out of whack.

Went away for a week, came back to a perfect tub of water. Talked to the girl at the place I get supplies at and who had checked a number of samples for me. She said something and a light went on.

I was trying too hard, checking too often and adjusting too much.

Now it seems like it maintains itself. Check the basics once or twice a week, shock it every few days, toss in some Alkaline up occasionally, and we're good to go.

Also, I neglected it for a couple days over a week or so and it got a little cloudy. Shocked it good a few times, had a bunch of foam. It all cleared up in a day or so.

[waterbear]

I was where you are at about 8 months ago, had the tub about 4 or 5 months then. Things seems out of control, always checking, always adjusting, always the water was out of whack.

Went away for a week, came back to a perfect tub of water. Talked to the girl at the place I get supplies at and who had checked a number of samples for me. She said something and a light went on.

I was trying too hard, checking too often and adjusting too much.

Now it seems like it maintains itself. Check the basics once or twice a week, shock it every few days, toss in some Alkaline up occasionally, and we're good to go.

Also, I neglected it for a couple days over a week or so and it got a little cloudy. Shocked it good a few times, had a bunch of foam. It all cleared up in a day or so.

Truer words were never spoken!

[SuzyQ442]

Ok boys, I hear you.

Waterbear, I followed your instructions, got the alk down, but ph is still high (8.0)

It's just a little frustrating and maybe I'm impatient.

I will give it a little rest. I promise I won't check anything before the weekend. Just throw in a couple of tablespoonfuls of bleach. That's all I'll do. We'll see how it goes...

thanks to both of you for your advice.

[waterbear]

Ok boys, I hear you.

Waterbear, I followed your instructions, got the alk down, but ph is still high (8.0)

It's just a little frustrating and maybe I'm impatient.

I will give it a little rest. I promise I won't check anything before the weekend. Just throw in a couple of tablespoonfuls of bleach. That's all I'll do. We'll see how it goes...

thanks to both of you for your advice.

If your alk is at 80 or below then add enough acid to drop the pH to around 7.6 to 7.8 and see how it goes.As long as the pH is below 8.0 with bromine you are golden.

[SuzyQ442]

Well guys guess what. Had a nice surprise today. After leaving everything alone for about 3 days, I did my tests this morning. Ph is at a beautiful 7.4, without adding any acid! Alk a little low at 50, but I think I should leave well enough alone and do nothing...

And Waterbear, bromine holding very well since bromide bank has been established. I didn't add any activator during those 3 days (didn't use the spa either I have to admit, pretty lousy weather in the last few days) - it is even a little high at 9, but the cover is off so in a hour or so it'll be just perfect. I guess the ozonator & the chlorine incorporated in the bromine tablets were enough to keep everything on point.

And the best part of it all: no more unsually high amounts of foam!

I guess I'll just have to monitor the alk to make sure it doesn't get TOO low, but unless I am mistaken, although it is borderline, I can leave it at 50?

I am now a very happy soaker!

Thanks for the very sound advice

[waterbear]

50 is fine for ALK but when it drops lower (It will because bromine tabs are acidic and so is MPS if you are using that) bump it up to about 80 ppm.

[klhPerry]

Dear Waterbear and SuzyQ442 (Suzy, you and I are Hot Tub Twins!! Issues almost identical)

Thank you for all of the great info, but H-E-L-P!! I have misplaced the instruction book (2004B,that is a "must read") from my recently purchased K-2106. I was so excited to open the kit and get the book read, but then LIFE happened, as usual. I have looked high and low for the book to no avail. I called Taylor to see if a download was available ... even for purchase, but they said I needed to actually buy the hard copy.

Meantime, I want to test my spa correctly! My question to you is, exactly how vital is it that read the entire little blue book before I simply follow the instructions listed on the lid of my test kit??? Since learning of and heeding your excellent advice Waterbear, I have gained a clean, choke-free spa and I don't want that to change.

Spa 9.1.1!! Thank you!

[SuzyQ442]

Dear Southside,

I will let Waterbear (or another MOD) confirm or correct what I'm about to write, but just as a quick reply:

In my opinion, you don't really need the book for the testing, everything you need to know on how to actually do the tests is inside the lid - except for the little trick to circumvent the fading endpoint Waterbear mentioned in the posts above for the CH test - I believe that one is only inside the book. You can also watch the instructional videos Waterbear suggested to me, they will help you ensure you do the tests correctly.

The booklet is a very interesting read if you want to know how your water reacts and products interact with it(and you should, imho).

However, should you need to adjust your levels, the tables are at the back, which will at some point be required. But, not all is lost... you can also use the Pool Calculator HERE which will help you determine how much of what you need to achieve balanced levels.

And yes, I think the book is indeed a "must read"... Hope you ordered the magnetic stirrer also; in addition to being a really cool gadget, it is very helpful especially when doing the bromine test (the DPD powder takes a while to dissolve) and CH test (lots of swirling).

So, don't despair, you can do the tests anyways, follow the instructions in the lid... but get the book, it's worth it.

A note to Waterbear: I have been doing some experimenting, and I note that if I use MPS to shock/oxidize instead of plain bleach, the foam has a tendency to return. Also, I read in a post somewhere here, that MPS seems to oxidize certain organics more effectively than bleach (not all, but some). Any thoughts on these 2 points?

[waterbear]

The book is not necessarily except for the acid and base demand tests, which are not as useful for a spa as for a pool, and the book does contain some infor that I feel is incorrect based on current knowledge of pool/spa chemistry (which is still not really accepted by the industry but works, as proven by the member here and on other forums that apply it).

SusyQ442 is right on the money with her advice

As far as MPS goes, it does oxidize some things more efficiently than chlorine but the advantage is usually in indoor pools or spas that never receive UV light form the sun. If an outdoor spa is uncovered when it is shocked then, IMHO, the point is moot. However YMMV so if it works for you then use it. I have never found it necessary. IF you are finding more foam with MPS then it is not oxidizing as well for you as the chlorine, which has been my experience.

[SuzyQ442]

You know, it's not that I really want to use the MPS that much, it's just that I have 2kg of the stuff that I eventually have to get rid of... so sometimes, I alternate just for the heck of it... that's how I noticed the difference in foam. Bleach does a great job for me and I am happy with it... after all it is what helped correct my water problems.

Anyone looking for 2kg MPS? Any takers?

[klhPerry]

The book is not necessarily except for the acid and base demand tests, which are not as useful for a spa as for a pool, and the book does contain some infor that I feel is incorrect based on current knowledge of pool/spa chemistry (which is still not really accepted by the industry but works, as proven by the member here and on other forums that apply it).

SusyQ442 is right on the money with her advice

As far as MPS goes, it does oxidize some things more efficiently than chlorine but the advantage is usually in indoor pools or spas that never receive UV light form the sun. If an outdoor spa is uncovered when it is shocked then, IMHO, the point is moot. However YMMV so if it works for you then use it. I have never found it necessary. IF you are finding more foam with MPS then it is not oxidizing as well for you as the chlorine, which has been my experience.

SuzyQ442 and Waterbear, THANK YOU for your quick replies! Waterbear, you should seriously consider changing your user name to "Watersavior" (hope I didn't step on anyone's virtual toes if that is already a user name)!

I started following your advice when I stumbled upon this forum after typing "Hot Tub Water Green and Choking Me" in my search engine! Your explanation of elemental bromine fit the bill - and adding Borax to my hot tub instantly helped. Also, I had no idea about adding sodium bromide to start the reserve. What an education I've had these last few weeks!!

Of course, I overdid the Borax & aeration just a bit - pH has been high & TA has been low ever since. However, with the addition of the sodium bromide as well as regulating the tablet floater and shocking with chlorine, the water has improved considerably! No more choking - not even a cough - and the color is decent. Just getting a bit of foaming, but I'm keeping up with the reads on that subject.

After viewing the Taylor instructional videos, I feel more confident about the water testing ... even though I could kick myself for losing the little blue book! I know it will turn up somewhere -- probably immediately after I submit my payment for a new one online. lol

Thanks again, to both!

[waterbear]

Waterbear, you should seriously consider changing your user name to "Watersavior" (hope I didn't step on anyone's virtual toes if that is already a user name)!

Nah, I am quite content as a tardigrade (google it) . After all, I can survive in a vacuum.

[klhPerry]

Waterbear, you should seriously consider changing your user name to "Watersavior" (hope I didn't step on anyone's virtual toes if that is already a user name)!

Nah, I am quite content as a tardigrade (google it) . After all, I can survive in a vacuum.

I've always been fascinated with diatoms, but I had no idea about the existence of tardigrades! And I am so blonde that I actually thought your Waterbear was a photo of a manatee! Okay, okay ... you can all stop laughing now.

Update on my little hot tub: (Oh ... I actually FOUND the booklet that came with my Taylor kit - this before I purchased another one!) Last Sunday, I was told that I should always turn the air controls off when the tub is not in use, to help keep the heat in and make it easier for the heater to maintain the temperature. So, I started doing that. Things were going along swimmingly when Monday, I noticed quite a bit of foaming (more so than before).

Dumb Thing #1 - Without testing bromine and pH, I shocked with MPS (just because I have some - duh!). Well, I think I'll just donate the rest of the MPS right back to the pool peeps and they can give it to someone who loves it! It is now Friday, and I have more foam than ever and my pH went down to 7.0 (or lower? Does the Taylor kit pH test reflect anything lower than 7.0 by a color change?) and Bromine is off the charts.

Dumb Thing #2 - Reviewed the posts on this topic after I treated my water. Then, of course, I got smart! Removed the Bromine floater and aerated for over an hour; pH came right back up to 7.4! Although foaming decreased a bit, I still have some and the Bromine is still very high. I am going to keep the floater out of the water until levels drop. I'm a bit confused, because

Dumb Thing #3 - When I checked the bromine level on Wednesday, it was low, so I gave the floater just a couple more twists and thought that might do the trick. Before I escalate to Dumb Thing #4, can you tell me if turning off the air controls is necessary? Might limiting the amount of air circulating when the tub is not in use actually lower the pH level and made bromine levels rise?

I just want to blame someone else for my bubbles and bromine! lol