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Is Ozone Necessary?


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I know this has been a hotly debated topic but I wanted to get some more relavant insights as many of the posts appear to be old. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I'm in the market for a midgrade tub and have been looking that the Hot Spot Tempo/Caldera Palatino. This tub does have an optional CD Ozonator. Now I understand the theory behind ozone - with it being an oxidizer and supposedly helps with keeping water clean requiring less chemicals, but does it really work? For me it's not really about the price as it's only a couple hundred dollars extra, but I like to keep things simple. If it's a feature that only adds marginal benefit, it just seems like something else to pay to maintain or fix if it breaks. Am I wrong? In fact, to my surprise, a salesman at one of the dealers suggested it wasn't necessary and mentioned that he has a 5 year old tub and does fine without it. I suppose I'm just trying to find the positives and negatives of it. Any feedback you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

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I know this has been a hotly debated topic but I wanted to get some more relavant insights as many of the posts appear to be old. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I'm in the market for a midgrade tub and have been looking that the Hot Spot Tempo/Caldera Palatino. This tub does have an optional CD Ozonator. Now I understand the theory behind ozone - with it being an oxidizer and supposedly helps with keeping water clean requiring less chemicals, but does it really work? For me it's not really about the price as it's only a couple hundred dollars extra, but I like to keep things simple. If it's a feature that only adds marginal benefit, it just seems like something else to pay to maintain or fix if it breaks. Am I wrong? In fact, to my surprise, a salesman at one of the dealers suggested it wasn't necessary and mentioned that he has a 5 year old tub and does fine without it. I suppose I'm just trying to find the positives and negatives of it. Any feedback you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I love ozone, but in that spa, waste of time, in my opinion.

Ozone is a fine oxidizer, but, it leaves behind no residual. For it to be effective, it must be constantly introduced. And the Hot Spot utilizes a large 2 speed jet pump, that will, at most, only be running 4-6 hours a day. I don't think you'd see much, if any, benefit from an ozonator in any spa that doesn't use a 24 circ pump to pull in the ozone 24/7.

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I love ozone, but in that spa, waste of time, in my opinion.

Ozone is a fine oxidizer, but, it leaves behind no residual. For it to be effective, it must be constantly introduced. And the Hot Spot utilizes a large 2 speed jet pump, that will, at most, only be running 4-6 hours a day. I don't think you'd see much, if any, benefit from an ozonator in any spa that doesn't use a 24 circ pump to pull in the ozone 24/7.

I disagree. During times of non use as long as you sanitize properly after each use, an ozonator will reduce inbetween use additions of sanitizer. In other words when your away for a few days and not able to add sanitizer an ozonator will help keep your water crisper and cleaner than not having one.

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I love ozone, but in that spa, waste of time, in my opinion.

Ozone is a fine oxidizer, but, it leaves behind no residual. For it to be effective, it must be constantly introduced. And the Hot Spot utilizes a large 2 speed jet pump, that will, at most, only be running 4-6 hours a day. I don't think you'd see much, if any, benefit from an ozonator in any spa that doesn't use a 24 circ pump to pull in the ozone 24/7.

I disagree. During times of non use as long as you sanitize properly after each use, an ozonator will reduce inbetween use additions of sanitizer. In other words when your away for a few days and not able to add sanitizer an ozonator will help keep your water crisper and cleaner than not having one.

I would have to agree with spa guru. An ozonator is beneficial on any spa as long as it is used with a bromine or chlorine. The ozonator will allow you to reduce your sanitizer levels and you will use less. The ozonator isnt a neccesity, you can operate any spa with chemicals.

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Can anyone produce an independent peer reviewed scientific study showing ozone has any effect on a spa?

Please tell me you have one, I'd love to read it.

My observations are just that, observations. Granted, I've made over 40,000 observations over the last 20+ years.

Back to the original question...

Is ozone necessary?

Not at all.

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Can anyone produce an independent peer reviewed scientific study showing ozone has any effect on a spa?

Please tell me you have one, I'd love to read it.

My observations are just that, observations. Granted, I've made over 40,000 observations over the last 20+ years.

Back to the original question...

Is ozone necessary?

Not at all.

As I said it isnt necessary but it is beneficial. Asking if ozone has any effect on a spa is like asking if chlorine or bromine has an effect on a spa. It is an oxidizer just as bothe chlorine and bromine are.

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Can anyone produce an independent peer reviewed scientific study showing ozone has any effect on a spa?

Please tell me you have one, I'd love to read it.

My observations are just that, observations. Granted, I've made over 40,000 observations over the last 20+ years.

Back to the original question...

Is ozone necessary?

Not at all.

As I said it isnt necessary but it is beneficial. Asking if ozone has any effect on a spa is like asking if chlorine or bromine has an effect on a spa. It is an oxidizer just as bothe chlorine and bromine are.

I think there's a bit more to it than that. There must be a threshold ozone must meet to be effective. Eg: While eliminating a few bacteria might be "beneficial," if you eliminate a few hundred out of a few hundred thousand, how much are you really helping?

Ozone is doing nothing for approx 20 hours a day in the spa he's considering. It's my opinion, that in four out of twenty-four hours, the ozone won't do enough to make you realize if you have one or not. Chemically speaking, you'll be doing virtually the same routine, with or without it.

If you have an ozonator in a spa that uses a two-speed pump to pull it in, I'd suggest unplugging the ozonator for a few day's, and see if you notice any difference. I never have. Neither has *any* customer ever mentioned they'd noticed a difference upon discovering their ozonator is broken. That's all I have as "proof" of the effectiveness of ozone in spa's that hardly use them.

Conversely, in spa's that use a 24hour circ pump, I have several customers that have been able to detect when their ozonators broke, despite the fact they were still seeing air-bubbles.

I've seen ozonators installed in spas in such fashion that the ozone never is drawn into the water- Or so high up, there's no time for any decent reaction to take place, justy plenty of nasty off-gassing.

Just because a spa has an ozonator, doesn't mean you're going to see a benefit. Many times, particularly on entry level spa's, they're thrown in as an afterthought simply so that the salesman may claim they have one. This isn't to say they're aren't effective, or give them a bad name. Just that you need to do your homework on the spa, and how the ozone is plumbed, and introduced.

However, now the good Dr has me wondering just how beneficial ozone is in any spa :o

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Can anyone produce an independent peer reviewed scientific study showing ozone has any effect on a spa?

Please tell me you have one, I'd love to read it.

My observations are just that, observations. Granted, I've made over 40,000 observations over the last 20+ years.

Back to the original question...

Is ozone necessary?

Not at all.

As I said it isnt necessary but it is beneficial. Asking if ozone has any effect on a spa is like asking if chlorine or bromine has an effect on a spa. It is an oxidizer just as bothe chlorine and bromine are.

I think there's a bit more to it that that. There must be a threshold it must meet to be effective. But while eliminating a few bacteria might be "beneficial," if you eliminate a few hundred out of a few hundred thousand, how much are you really helping? Remember, Ozone is also breaking down the sanitizer in the spa as well as oxidizing bacteria.

Ozone is doing nothing for approx 20 hours a day in the spa he's considering. It's my opinion, that in the four out of twenty four hours, the ozone won't do enough to make you realize if you have one or not. Chemically speaking, you'll be doing exactly the same routine, with or without it.

If you have an ozonator in a spa that uses a two-speed pump to pull it in, I'd suggest unplugging the ozonator for a few day's, and see if you notice any difference. I never have. Neither has any customer ever mentioned they'd noticed a difference upon disocering their ozonator is broken. That's all I have as "proof" of the effectiveness of ozone in spa's that hardly use them.

Conversely, in spa's that use a 24hour circ pump, I have several customers that have been able to detect when their ozonators broke, despite the fact they were still seeing air-bubbles.

There is more to it than that it just depends on how deep you want to get into water chemistry and as I would explain to any customer that wants to use ozone the more you circulate a spa or pool the more you will benefit from it. One benefit you get from ozone is the kill time of ozone over other sanitizers. Ozone kills crypto and other waterborne bacteria on contact where the kill times for chlorine in high levels is more than 10 hours and at acceptable levels of up to 24 hours. This is why many health departments are requiring ozone to be installed on public pools to prevent crypto outbreaks.

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Can anyone produce an independent peer reviewed scientific study showing ozone has any effect on a spa?

Please tell me you have one, I'd love to read it.

My observations are just that, observations. Granted, I've made over 40,000 observations over the last 20+ years.

Back to the original question...

Is ozone necessary?

Not at all.

As I said it isnt necessary but it is beneficial. Asking if ozone has any effect on a spa is like asking if chlorine or bromine has an effect on a spa. It is an oxidizer just as bothe chlorine and bromine are.

I think there's a bit more to it that that. There must be a threshold it must meet to be effective. But while eliminating a few bacteria might be "beneficial," if you eliminate a few hundred out of a few hundred thousand, how much are you really helping? Remember, Ozone is also breaking down the sanitizer in the spa as well as oxidizing bacteria.

Ozone is doing nothing for approx 20 hours a day in the spa he's considering. It's my opinion, that in the four out of twenty four hours, the ozone won't do enough to make you realize if you have one or not. Chemically speaking, you'll be doing exactly the same routine, with or without it.

If you have an ozonator in a spa that uses a two-speed pump to pull it in, I'd suggest unplugging the ozonator for a few day's, and see if you notice any difference. I never have. Neither has any customer ever mentioned they'd noticed a difference upon disocering their ozonator is broken. That's all I have as "proof" of the effectiveness of ozone in spa's that hardly use them.

Conversely, in spa's that use a 24hour circ pump, I have several customers that have been able to detect when their ozonators broke, despite the fact they were still seeing air-bubbles.

There is more to it than that it just depends on how deep you want to get into water chemistry and as I would explain to any customer that wants to use ozone the more you circulate a spa or pool the more you will benefit from it. One benefit you get from ozone is the kill time of ozone over other sanitizers. Ozone kills crypto and other waterborne bacteria on contact where the kill times for chlorine in high levels is more than 10 hours and at acceptable levels of up to 24 hours. This is why many health departments are requiring ozone to be installed on public pools to prevent crypto outbreaks.

I assume they're running the ozonator more than 4 hours a day?

It seems we must agree to disagree.

As I stated, I feel ozone can be beneficial. But that doesn't make it de-facto beneficial.

It's my opinion, that only running approx 4 hours a day doesn't do much, if anything, to help with spa sanitation, in a properly plumbed spa.

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ozone can actually have a NEGATIVE effect in a chlorine system since the two tend to destroy each other so it can acutally increase chlorine demand in some cases.

Also, ozone is a toxic gas and there should be no residual in the water and that is often not the case in the less expensive units where ozone concentration can get high right at the water surface (where the bathers are breathing it in!)

Ozone is of marginally more benefit when using bromne since it will oxidize bromide into hypobromous acid but it also has a tendency to oxidize bromide into bromate too. Bromates are not renewable (cannot be converted back into hypobromous acid like bromide can) and are suspected carcinogens when ingested.

With all that being said, ozone can help reduce sanitizer demand in a well designed system but such systems are rare.

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Waterbear,

Can you explain why Hot tub company almost insist in offering their tubs with ozone. Is it a case that Hot tub because of their very nature with extremely hot water compared to swimming pool better lends itself to using bromine instead of chlorine?

I often wonder what effects ozone systems have with these other sanitizers that use neither bromine or chlorine?

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ozone can actually have a NEGATIVE effect in a chlorine system since the two tend to destroy each other so it can acutally increase chlorine demand in some cases.

Also, ozone is a toxic gas and there should be no residual in the water and that is often not the case in the less expensive units where ozone concentration can get high right at the water surface (where the bathers are breathing it in!)

Ozone is of marginally more benefit when using bromne since it will oxidize bromide into hypobromous acid but it also has a tendency to oxidize bromide into bromate too. Bromates are not renewable (cannot be converted back into hypobromous acid like bromide can) and are suspected carcinogens when ingested.

With all that being said, ozone can help reduce sanitizer demand in a well designed system but such systems are rare.

I would be interested in seeing some information supporting the theory that chlorine and ozone will destroy each other. Ozone is nothing more than a oxygen molecule with a third atom and does not destroy bromine or chlorine. Bromate are created when the bromine molecule comes into contact with a living bacteria this does not happen when it comes into contact with another oxidizer.

Ozone can be toxic in high levels so is chlorine and bromine. These oxidizers have to be by theyre very nature as they are meant to kill a living organism. Used properly they do an excellent job of killing bacteria in a warm water environment. My number one priority for my customers is that theyre spas are safe for theyre families to use and anything such as an ozonator that can help insure that is a good thing in my opinion. We arent talking about a system that is costing the customer $2000 as they did in the begining and for what they sell for they are well worth theyre price.

The theory that properly installed ozone systems are very rare is not true you are always going to have junk being peddled in any industry but there are many more good manufacturers out there than there are bad.

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ozone can actually have a NEGATIVE effect in a chlorine system since the two tend to destroy each other so it can acutally increase chlorine demand in some cases.

Also, ozone is a toxic gas and there should be no residual in the water and that is often not the case in the less expensive units where ozone concentration can get high right at the water surface (where the bathers are breathing it in!)

Ozone is of marginally more benefit when using bromne since it will oxidize bromide into hypobromous acid but it also has a tendency to oxidize bromide into bromate too. Bromates are not renewable (cannot be converted back into hypobromous acid like bromide can) and are suspected carcinogens when ingested.

With all that being said, ozone can help reduce sanitizer demand in a well designed system but such systems are rare.

I would be interested in seeing some information supporting the theory that chlorine and ozone will destroy each other. Ozone is nothing more than a oxygen molecule with a third atom and does not destroy bromine or chlorine. Bromate are created when the bromine molecule comes into contact with a living bacteria this does not happen when it comes into contact with another oxidizer.

Ozone can be toxic in high levels so is chlorine and bromine. These oxidizers have to be by theyre very nature as they are meant to kill a living organism. Used properly they do an excellent job of killing bacteria in a warm water environment. My number one priority for my customers is that theyre spas are safe for theyre families to use and anything such as an ozonator that can help insure that is a good thing in my opinion. We arent talking about a system that is costing the customer $2000 as they did in the begining and for what they sell for they are well worth theyre price.

The theory that properly installed ozone systems are very rare is not true you are always going to have junk being peddled in any industry but there are many more good manufacturers out there than there are bad.

I just want to take a moment and point out, this conversation is a perfect example of why customers are sometimes so confused. Here we have several dealers completely disagreeing with another- who is the customer to believe when the professionals can't even agree?

The amount of misinformation in the industry shouldn't exist on something that's been in the wild so long.

I think it's because we're all going on personal observation, marketing material info, with a bit of pseudo science, where a little information can be a dangerous thing.

I'd love to see a peer reviewed study of O3 use in spa's.

Take care,

~Ben

PS- Waterbear, about off gassing- I have some doozies to tell back in the 80's.

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ozone can actually have a NEGATIVE effect in a chlorine system since the two tend to destroy each other so it can acutally increase chlorine demand in some cases.

Also, ozone is a toxic gas and there should be no residual in the water and that is often not the case in the less expensive units where ozone concentration can get high right at the water surface (where the bathers are breathing it in!)

Ozone is of marginally more benefit when using bromne since it will oxidize bromide into hypobromous acid but it also has a tendency to oxidize bromide into bromate too. Bromates are not renewable (cannot be converted back into hypobromous acid like bromide can) and are suspected carcinogens when ingested.

With all that being said, ozone can help reduce sanitizer demand in a well designed system but such systems are rare.

I would be interested in seeing some information supporting the theory that chlorine and ozone will destroy each other. Ozone is nothing more than a oxygen molecule with a third atom and does not destroy bromine or chlorine. Bromate are created when the bromine molecule comes into contact with a living bacteria this does not happen when it comes into contact with another oxidizer.

Ozone can be toxic in high levels so is chlorine and bromine. These oxidizers have to be by theyre very nature as they are meant to kill a living organism. Used properly they do an excellent job of killing bacteria in a warm water environment. My number one priority for my customers is that theyre spas are safe for theyre families to use and anything such as an ozonator that can help insure that is a good thing in my opinion. We arent talking about a system that is costing the customer $2000 as they did in the begining and for what they sell for they are well worth theyre price.

The theory that properly installed ozone systems are very rare is not true you are always going to have junk being peddled in any industry but there are many more good manufacturers out there than there are bad.

I just want to take a moment and point out, this conversation is a perfect example of why customers are sometimes so confused. Here we have several dealers completely disagreeing with another- who is the customer to believe when the professionals can't even agree?

The amount of misinformation in the industry shouldn't exist on something that's been in the wild so long.

I think it's because we're all going on personal observation, marketing material info, with a bit of pseudo science, where a little information can be a dangerous thing.

I'd love to see a peer reviewed study of O3 use in spa's.

Take care,

~Ben

PS- Waterbear, about off gassing- I have some doozies to tell back in the 80's.

There is plenty of hard facts available to anyone who wants to do the homework. The Center for Disease control has a lot of information on ozone as a disinfectant being used on everything from pools to hospital tools. The World Health Organization also has plenty of info on this. I could go on with other sources. I dont go off of marketing material or pseudo science and of course each one of us will use personal observation. Some of the arguments being against ozone just arent correct.

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There is plenty of hard facts available to anyone who wants to do the homework. The Center for Disease control has a lot of information on ozone as a disinfectant being used on everything from pools to hospital tools. The World Health Organization also has plenty of info on this. I could go on with other sources. I dont go off of marketing material or pseudo science and of course each one of us will use personal observation. Some of the arguments being against ozone just arent correct.

Question:

Can you please tell me more about the following: In general, does Bromine & Ozone do a better job than Chlorine & Ozone for pools? Also, where would I purchase a device to test the ozone levels in my pool and hot tub.

Answer:

Chlorine and ozone have the tendency to eliminate each other. Bromine and ozone cooperate to some degree. For regular pool owner is completely irrelevant what chemical processes are taking place, but the result is rather interesting - bromine usage with ozone is almost 1/2 of what would be chlorine usage with ozone in the same pool - while maintaining recommended residuals.....

The above quote was from this website that's business is ozone, so maybe you should listen to what Waterbear says before doubting him. ;)

http://www.ozoneservices.com/faq/faq015.htm

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Waterbear,

Can you explain why Hot tub company almost insist in offering their tubs with ozone.

It's called marketing since many of the ozone units that they fit are not really effective. It's just a selling feature in many cases.

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There is plenty of hard facts available to anyone who wants to do the homework. The Center for Disease control has a lot of information on ozone as a disinfectant being used on everything from pools to hospital tools. The World Health Organization also has plenty of info on this. I could go on with other sources. I dont go off of marketing material or pseudo science and of course each one of us will use personal observation. Some of the arguments being against ozone just arent correct.

There is truth in what you say. However ozone, AS IT IS IMPLEMENTED IN MANY SPAS, is nothing more than a marketing feature and it does not really achieve what it claims to. Hard fact, ozone does destroy chlorine and vice versa so it can actually increase chlorine demand. Hard fact, ozone does reactive bromide reserves into active bromine sanitizer but also over oxidizes bromides into non renewable bromates. Hard fact, UV ozone systems are not effective. CD ozone systems requires drying tubs and reaction chambers for optimum results and these are often eliminated to save money. Hard fact, ozone is toxic and the level in the water that bathers are in should be 0 ppm. Hard fact, ozone has no residual effect so it does not eliminate the need for a fast acting residual sanitizer and it does not always lower sanitizer demand but can actually cause it to rise.

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There is plenty of hard facts available to anyone who wants to do the homework. The Center for Disease control has a lot of information on ozone as a disinfectant being used on everything from pools to hospital tools. The World Health Organization also has plenty of info on this. I could go on with other sources. I dont go off of marketing material or pseudo science and of course each one of us will use personal observation. Some of the arguments being against ozone just arent correct.

There is truth in what you say. However ozone, AS IT IS IMPLEMENTED IN MANY SPAS, is nothing more than a marketing feature and it does not really achieve what it claims to. Hard fact, ozone does destroy chlorine and vice versa so it can actually increase chlorine demand. Hard fact, ozone does reactive bromide reserves into active bromine sanitizer but also over oxidizes bromides into non renewable bromates. Hard fact, UV ozone systems are not effective. CD ozone systems requires drying tubs and reaction chambers for optimum results and these are often eliminated to save money. Hard fact, ozone is toxic and the level in the water that bathers are in should be 0 ppm. Hard fact, ozone has no residual effect so it does not eliminate the need for a fast acting residual sanitizer and it does not always lower sanitizer demand but can actually cause it to rise.

There is some truth in what you say also. However you stated that a properly installed ozonator is rare and I dont agree with that. I do agree with the statement you just made about some spas implementing ozone as a marketing strategy. As far as your claim that ozone destroys chlorine and over oxidizes bromine, show me where to find this information so I can learn from this as I have never heard of ozone creating Bromates. What is your basis for UV systems not being effective? True they are higher maintainance and nowhere near as effective as CD or VUV ozone but they do produce ozone and if the bulbs are changed yearly they will continue to produce ozone. Your statement about CD systems is somewhat misleading. The key word in your statement is optimum. There are many ways to increase the productivity of an Ozone system. Air dryers are used to reduce nitric acid and increase ozone production. Sometimes we use oxygen concentrators to help increase ozone production. A mixing chamber does nothing but allow the oxidation to occur and allow for of gasing. In a spa or pool (depending on how it is plumbed) The plumbing or the body of water itself is a mixing chamber. Taking all these things into consideration an ozonator is still benefitial IMHO even if it doesnt have these things. I know that there is not an accptable level of ozone that should be inhaled and if the ozonator is installed properly there wont be. How can ozone be strong enough to destroy chlorine and yet not effective at killing bacteria? Also I might point out that the CDC has determined that you can not prevent swimmers lung in a pool or spa that is PROPERLY maintained with chlorine, which is exactly why they are turning to ozone as a secondary sanitizer.

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I would be interested in seeing some information supporting the theory that chlorine and ozone will destroy each other. Ozone is nothing more than a oxygen molecule with a third atom and does not destroy bromine or chlorine. Bromate are created when the bromine molecule comes into contact with a living bacteria this does not happen when it comes into contact with another oxidizer.

I'd like to see the scientific peer-reviewed paper(s) that make the claims you are making or is this just speculation on your part? Please see PDF pages 11-12 (paper pages 35-36) of this paper that refers to this scientific paper (that I've paid for and downloaded) that states that ozone reacts with hypochlorite ion to produce 77% chloride and 23% chlorate. Similarly, ozone reacts with hypobromite ion to produce bromide and bromate, but also reacts with bromide to produce hypobromite ion so the net result depends on the bromide bank concentration (which is usually high so the net result is that bromine is produced though some is lost permanently as bromate -- see Figure 9 in the link above).

O3 + OCl- --> [ O2 + Cl-O-O- ] --> 2O2 + Cl- (77%)

2O3 + OCl- --> 2O2 + ClO3- (23%)

O3 + OBr- --> [ O2 + Br-O-O- ] --> 2O2 + Br- (77%)

O3 + Br- --> O2 + OBr- (dominates when bromide bank exists)

2O3 + OBr- --> 2O2 + BrO3- (23%)

Bromate is a probable human carcinogen while chlorate is not, though as described in this report, bromate is essentially not absorbed through the skin so is mainly a concern for drinking water.

In addition to this theoretical and experimental support for ozone reacting with chlorine, there is also the experience of numerous hot tub users on this forum where we found that generally if one uses the spa infrequently (1 or 2 times a week or less), then the daily chlorine demand is roughly double with ozone than without. Basically, the daily chlorine demand jumps from 25% of the FC per day to 50% of the FC per day when one has an ozonator. However, if one uses the spa frequently (every day or two), then the chlorine demand drops roughly in half since ozone is able to oxidize some of the bather waste so that chlorine doesn't have to.

Obviously, the above experiences are rough guides since the strength of the ozonator will make a difference as to the amount of change in chlorine demand, but the basic principle remains the same. High use spas benefit from a reasonably sized ozonator as it becomes a supplemental oxidizer to chlorine to handle bather waste. Low use spas do not generally benefit from an ozonator in that more chlorine normally needs to be used. In general, people have not found that having an ozonator lets the spa get to zero chlorine without problems such as clouding of the water.

Let's please stop arguing about this since both the science and the personal experiences of many on this forum support the fact that ozone reacts with chlorine.

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I have nothing scientific to contribute, but from personal experience I believe that ozone contributes nothing and does increase chlorine demand. One of the first things I did when I added a salt water chlorine generator was to disconnect my ozonator, which is what I recommend that others do (to save energy if nothing else). It puzzles me that Hot Springs, to take one example, has an ozonator built into its spas using the ACE chlorine system. Waste of money IMO. It's all about marketing and making consumers feel like their water is pure even if they are to lazy to properly maintain the spa. It kind of reminds me of all of the antibacterial hand soap products when normal hand soap has worked fine for generations.

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ozone can actually have a NEGATIVE effect in a chlorine system since the two tend to destroy each other so it can acutally increase chlorine demand in some cases.

Also, ozone is a toxic gas and there should be no residual in the water and that is often not the case in the less expensive units where ozone concentration can get high right at the water surface (where the bathers are breathing it in!)

Ozone is of marginally more benefit when using bromne since it will oxidize bromide into hypobromous acid but it also has a tendency to oxidize bromide into bromate too. Bromates are not renewable (cannot be converted back into hypobromous acid like bromide can) and are suspected carcinogens when ingested.

With all that being said, ozone can help reduce sanitizer demand in a well designed system but such systems are rare.

I would be interested in seeing some information supporting the theory that chlorine and ozone will destroy each other. Ozone is nothing more than a oxygen molecule with a third atom and does not destroy bromine or chlorine. Bromate are created when the bromine molecule comes into contact with a living bacteria this does not happen when it comes into contact with another oxidizer.

Ozone can be toxic in high levels so is chlorine and bromine. These oxidizers have to be by theyre very nature as they are meant to kill a living organism. Used properly they do an excellent job of killing bacteria in a warm water environment. My number one priority for my customers is that theyre spas are safe for theyre families to use and anything such as an ozonator that can help insure that is a good thing in my opinion. We arent talking about a system that is costing the customer $2000 as they did in the begining and for what they sell for they are well worth theyre price.

The theory that properly installed ozone systems are very rare is not true you are always going to have junk being peddled in any industry but there are many more good manufacturers out there than there are bad.

I just want to take a moment and point out, this conversation is a perfect example of why customers are sometimes so confused. Here we have several dealers completely disagreeing with another- who is the customer to believe when the professionals can't even agree?

The amount of misinformation in the industry shouldn't exist on something that's been in the wild so long.

I think it's because we're all going on personal observation, marketing material info, with a bit of pseudo science, where a little information can be a dangerous thing.

I'd love to see a peer reviewed study of O3 use in spa's.

Take care,

~Ben

PS- Waterbear, about off gassing- I have some doozies to tell back in the 80's.

There is plenty of hard facts available to anyone who wants to do the homework. The Center for Disease control has a lot of information on ozone as a disinfectant being used on everything from pools to hospital tools. The World Health Organization also has plenty of info on this. I could go on with other sources. I dont go off of marketing material or pseudo science and of course each one of us will use personal observation. Some of the arguments being against ozone just arent correct.

I was trying to be diplomatic B) I sense that you're learning quite a bit in this thread.

~Ben

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It kind of reminds me of all of the antibacterial hand soap products when normal hand soap has worked fine for generations.

AND studies have shown that plain soap is just as effective as the antibacterial variety (although I am sure there are some on here that will now demand to see such studies. To you I say...google is your friend!)laugh.gif

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