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Thoughts On Cosctco Oc (Cal Spas) Bench Model?


olympic

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Hi everyone. I'm a newbie here and could use a little help with your thoughts/opinions on the OC Hot Tubs Resort 71-jet 6-person Bench Spa (The Resort OC871B). It features two pumps (GE switchless), Balboa controls and a Balboa heater. My wife who deals with chronic pain is attracted to the whirlpool therapy seat. Because it's through costco we are unable to wet test it. The costco item number is 562887.

Price point is an issue for us, and the current price of $4499.99 is attractive. This price is good until May 8th so need to finalize a decision soon. I understand the challenges of driveway delivery.

We are open to other manufacturers and models. Most important for my wife is one that has good placement of jets from head to toe with the primary emphasis being hips/back/neck.

We live in Spokane, WA so we need one that can withstand cold winter climates. This particular model is fully foamed. I've read pros/cons of fully foamed, but welcome fresh comments on that when you consider the climate we live in (for example, it just snowed an inch yesterday...and it's almost May) and price point.

I would certainly welcome information on other brands/models in the $5k price range that we should be considering perhaps from local dealers.

Thanks so much!

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If you are new to the forum welcome. You will see you asked a loaded question here. I think most people that own Costco spas are happy with them. Many people on this site are dealers that dislike a potential loss of business to costcos low prices. Bottom line is a Costco tub is built to a price point that most dealers can't match. You will not find a comparable tub for that price by a local dealer.

Things to consider when buying from Costco:

You will pay $200 to $300 to have your tub placed from curbside.

No ability to wet test, although you can wet test it for a year to see if you like it. If not another $300 will get it back to Costco for refund.

Local dealers will not touch your tub. Call the manufacture to see what kind of tech support is available in your area.

Kind of hard to go wrong with costco. If you don't like it after a year your out $600 or so.

Only other option for a cheaper tub would be used. There are alot of great tubs out there fir cheap due to people looseing a house or marriage.

Don't be rushed for this sale. Costcos tubs are alway below $5000.

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Olympic, I would like to invite you into our store in the Spokane Valley, At Falcos, We would like to help you out with a spa, If you have read any of my posts , I am not a fan of the Costco spas... Service, service ,service,,, Also if you look at the spas they sell hard to purchase without sitting in the seats, Check out the warranty only 2 years on plumbing and electrical, and 1 year on labor,,,,If you compare this with the top tier brands you will see why it is important to buy from a dealer( local) things you need to look at as a company to deal with,: Is the company you deal with Spasearch certified spa retailer by independent audit company, Delivery, orientation, In house service department, service programs, length of time company in business....You can contact me any time.. I also the different styles of spas with insulation, Full Foam, Thermal Chamber, Roxul, and Fiberglass, the reason for the different ones, i can tell you first hand how each work in our area, since we sell the different styles, NOt that we sell one and it is better than others with other companies not having any experiance with the different types

Thanks

Eric

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If you are new to the forum welcome. You will see you asked a loaded question here. I think most people that own Costco spas are happy with them. Many people on this site are dealers that dislike a potential loss of business to costcos low prices. Bottom line is a Costco tub is built to a price point that most dealers can't match. You will not find a comparable tub for that price by a local dealer.

Things to consider when buying from Costco:

You will pay $200 to $300 to have your tub placed from curbside.

No ability to wet test, although you can wet test it for a year to see if you like it. If not another $300 will get it back to Costco for refund.

Local dealers will not touch your tub. Call the manufacture to see what kind of tech support is available in your area.

Kind of hard to go wrong with costco. If you don't like it after a year your out $600 or so.

Only other option for a cheaper tub would be used. There are alot of great tubs out there fir cheap due to people looseing a house or marriage.

Don't be rushed for this sale. Costcos tubs are alway below $5000.

A few other things to consider when going the Costco route.

They are built to a price point as mentioned, no dealer can match that price point because a more expensive tub from a trusted high quality manufacturer will have more engineering and a hydrotherapy feel rather than a swirling hot water feel. There's a big difference and only wet testing will show it to you. May or may not be important to you.

IMO the price point achieved leads to a shorter life span. May or may not be important to you.

As stated the return policy can't be beat.

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If you are new to the forum welcome. You will see you asked a loaded question here. I think most people that own Costco spas are happy with them. Many people on this site are dealers that dislike a potential loss of business to costcos low prices. Bottom line is a Costco tub is built to a price point that most dealers can't match. You will not find a comparable tub for that price by a local dealer.

I'd have to disagree with one general premise. The reality is Costco now sells spas made by Strong and by Cal Spas (the OC ones). Prior to these they were made by a few other companies (Infinity, Hydro, Tatum...) and were very low quality with lots of long term problems. Costco got a ton returned and many customers were not satisfied. Time will tell on the newest versions from Strong and Cal. I can't say they'll be bad because it takes time and those who own them haven't had them long enough to know they'll be better than the past offerings for sure though they at least seem happy with them thus far. The ones from Cal are interesting in that Cal has been notorious for less than acceptable customer service and so-so quality over the years. But with these through Costco at least you have that buffer when problems arise so Cal can't ignore you because you can return it and Costco will hold their feet to the fire to some degree. I do wonder a bit about these being "full foam". I've seen a few older Cals that were supposedly full foam but were kind of tweeners but I haven’t seen one of these OCs opened up.

Its not like its a $7k spa being sold for $4.5k but the price is in your budget as you say and you do have the return policy. You won't have a dealer so delivery isn't complete and service isn't around the corner (making quality even more important) but some are fine with that and its one way they keep those costs down. IMO these spas are for people who are true DIYers and if thats you then it may meet your expectations. Its not like you have to spend $7k at a dealer for something comparable but you'd spend more (and get more IMO) so it just depends on your needs. The jetting isn't always the best either on a lot of these Costco offerings but it depends on your priorities. These spas tend to be for people whose list starts with price #1, and often #2 and #3 as well, which is fine obviously. Others look at these but decide to go elsewhere because while price matters things like hydrotherapy, quality, service etc. are just as high on their lists.

Just go in with your eyes wide open.

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Thanks for the quick responses everyone! I am being educated in a hurry. :-)

I appreciate the feedback and the various points being raised that I will be sure to consider in this purchase process.

The $4499 driveway delivery price of the costco model is certainly appealing, and it includes an ozonator which seems is an option with many manufacturers/models.

The OC claims fully foamed and that it meets the California Energy Standards which I see as a plus...is that something that I should be considering? I want to make sure a model is reasonably energy efficient.

Thanks again...and Eric (The Spa Guy), I will get ahold of you.

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The OC claims fully foamed and that it meets the California Energy Standards which I see as a plus...is that something that I should be considering? I want to make sure a model is reasonably energy efficient.

If that spa is full foam it will be reasonably energy efficient but ignore that Cal energy standards talk. The CEC standards so far are self-reported numbers that every spa manufacturer just happens to meet. Just by looking at the list there are anomalies that tell me much of the reporting is BS. Its a starting point but being on the list doesn't mean much yet and there are some on that list that I wouldn't call energy efficient to start with. Some day that CEC standard will have teeth and will be independently tested, right now it sounds good on a spec sheet but don't put much stock in it.

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The OC claims fully foamed and that it meets the California Energy Standards which I see as a plus...is that something that I should be considering? I want to make sure a model is reasonably energy efficient.

If that spa is full foam it will be reasonably energy efficient but ignore that Cal energy standards talk. The CEC standards so far are self-reported numbers that every spa manufacturer just happens to meet. Just by looking at the list there are anomalies that tell me much of the reporting is BS. Its a starting point but being on the list doesn't mean much yet and there are some on that list that I wouldn't call energy efficient to start with. Some day that CEC standard will have teeth and will be independently tested, right now it sounds good on a spec sheet but don't put much stock in it.

The reason why the CEC results are getting skewed is because there are 1000's of hot tubs to be tested in North America and Cal Poly University in California cannot test them all. It takes 1 full month to test each hot tub, plus they charge about $1000 to test each tub. So it's impossible 1 place is going to test them all. Because of this, CEC Title 20 allows a spa manufacture to construct a testing unit based on specs that would make the results "equal" to the ones that would be produced at Cal Poly. The problem is that you are asking the manufacture to grade itself and it could be years before the (real) results are really known. Companies (I won't mention who) have had their results tagged and they are under industry review review.

If you care about energy costs you should by a hot tub from a manufacture who does too. After all, you plan on having the hot tub for a while. A tub that cost you an extra $30 a month to operate will be an extra $1800 after only 5 years. Most people have their hot tub for a while so be careful what you buy because a low price upfront doesn't mean it will be efficient investment when you look back 5-10 years from now.

If you want a good product, doesn't matter what it is, buy it from a company that specializes in that only and you "should" have a much better experience.

For anyone that is interested in CEC results, you can find them here:

http://www.appliances.energy.ca.gov/QuickSearch.aspx

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For anyone that is interested in CEC results, you can find them here:

http://www.appliances.energy.ca.gov/QuickSearch.aspx

The tip-off that those some/many of those numbers are a joke can be seen when you look aT Catalina which not only has very low standy watts but all their spas have the same reading, 121 watts. First I'd have to believe they're actually that energy efficient (about half of most other brands, yeah right) and then I'd have to believe that they all miraculously are equal. Hydropool also has all their spa standby watts the same for each model but at least they're fibbing less at 192 watts.

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Roger good point on that,,,,..by the way hows your weather on your side of the mountain?

It was 68 and sunny on Monday and by Tuesday afternoon we had 6 inches of snow. It snowed almost all day on Wend and Thursday morning but it was above 40 by noon Thurs. and sunny and 50 by 6 PM. All the snow is gone. Typical spring in Mn. Ice went off the lake on Easter Sunday and the kids showed up and spent the day helping put the dock in and eatin.

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For anyone that is interested in CEC results, you can find them here:

http://www.appliances.energy.ca.gov/QuickSearch.aspx

The tip-off that those some/many of those numbers are a joke can be seen when you look aT Catalina which not only has very low standy watts but all their spas have the same reading, 121 watts. First I'd have to believe they're actually that energy efficient (about half of most other brands, yeah right) and then I'd have to believe that they all miraculously are equal. Hydropool also has all their spa standby watts the same for each model but at least they're fibbing less at 192 watts.

Which is why HydroPool is under industry review. If you were to read my first paragraph it fully explains the reason the numbers have variability. There is lying going on even with the CEC Title 20 because manufactures can test their own hot tubs and most do.

If you want to throw the results out the window, just read the Title 20 standard yourself and make sure the hot tub you get meets the CEC criteria:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/2003rulemaking/documents/case_studies/CASE_Portable_Spa.pdf

It simply says the most important factors for energy efficiency in hot tubs are (in the correct order):

1) Maximum R-Value in both the cover and throughout the hot tub (being filled with insulation with no cavities, just like you would do your house or you would lose heat). Any space or lack of insulation increases heat demand and running cost. Estimated improvement - 30%-50%

2) Low wattage circulation pump/filtering improvements. The addition of a smaller more efficient circulation pump will reduce or virtually eliminate the need for the large energy sucking (jet) pumps to operate. Estimated improvement - 15% - 25%

So just 2 factors can control a HUGE variance in the hot tub operation cost.

Most manufactures use a basic to no foaming methods while telling the consumer it is "fully insulated". Make sure there is a lot of good quality insulation (icynene foam is terrific). Less than 1 out of 5 spa manufactures use a circulation pump because it cost more money to make a spa that way, but it costs a lot less to run a spa that way. If you get both of these features maxed out you should be in for a good experience.

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Which is why HydroPool is under industry review. If you were to read my first paragraph it fully explains the reason the numbers have variability. There is lying going on even with the CEC Title 20 because manufactures can test their own hot tubs and most do.

I don't need to read any of your posts to know why there is variability. Not to sound conceited but I don’t need an education from you on this subject, I’m very familiar with the report, its shortcomings, insulation techniques, etc.

My point was you cannot legitimately say Beachcomber is going to be the lowest to operate and you should not use that flawed CEC report as your ammunition. Try saying they're "among the lowest", "one of the best" or even "the lowest IMO" in your blatantly biased response and I’ll ignore it but your absolute claim and link to that report is off base IMO.

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Less than 1 out of 5 spa manufactures use a circulation pump because it cost more money to make a spa that way, but it costs a lot less to run a spa that way. If you get both of these features maxed out you should be in for a good experience.

BeachcomberMississauga - Could you tell me where you got the info that less than 1 out of 5 mfg use a circ pump? I have seen then available from every mfg I have looked at except Arctic and now Arctic is going to be offering them (are they available with Strong?). Standard on some, and optional on others, but still available.

IMO a circ pump is a must have if you have an ozonator, but otherwise not critical. A tub with a circ pump will be quieter, but depending on your tub location and/or how you program filtration times, it may not be a concern.

As for cost savings with a circ pump, that dpends on many variables but I believe that for most peole the savings would be less that the 15%--25% that you reference. The savings should also be considered in rel;ation to the purchase and replacemnt cost of a circ pump.

I have a circ pump in my tub but I am not sure that I will replace it when it goes out.

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Thanks again for the continued discussion as I continue to learn. The discussion as raised a couple more questions for me:

1. If a spa is advertised with two pumps, can I assume that one pump is a circ pump? I see reference to low speed and high speed pumps....so making sure that a low speed pump is a circ pump. I also see some spas advertise 3 pumps, so please help me understand the multi-pump configuration and what is considered ideal.

2. I hadn't considered that there were different kinds of foam. Many advertise fully foamed. In a cold winter climate is fully foamed considered superior to the barrier foam with a chamber? Perhaps both can be competitive if done right.

Thanks!

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  • 2 weeks later...

John,

Just wanted to thank you for coming in and checking us out, Thanks for the purchase of your D1 Wayfarer, you will be happy with that spa... B)B)B)B)

Eric, thank you for your assistance in the purchase process. The information you provided was very valuable. We are looking for to our new spa!

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If you are new to the forum welcome. You will see you asked a loaded question here. I think most people that own Costco spas are happy with them. Many people on this site are dealers that dislike a potential loss of business to costcos low prices. Bottom line is a Costco tub is built to a price point that most dealers can't match. You will not find a comparable tub for that price by a local dealer.

Things to consider when buying from Costco:

You will pay $200 to $300 to have your tub placed from curbside.

No ability to wet test, although you can wet test it for a year to see if you like it. If not another $300 will get it back to Costco for refund.

Local dealers will not touch your tub. Call the manufacture to see what kind of tech support is available in your area.

Kind of hard to go wrong with costco. If you don't like it after a year your out $600 or so.

Only other option for a cheaper tub would be used. There are alot of great tubs out there fir cheap due to people looseing a house or marriage.

Don't be rushed for this sale. Costcos tubs are alway below $5000.

I fix strong spa's. they run Balboa pak that are easy to work on and I have had a couple of them open and they see like a good entry level spa. other that no in house support what's the problem? they are better that a coast spa IMO
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  • 3 weeks later...

Olympic,

No problem , We llok forward to delivering your new D1 spa....

Hi everyone. We had our D1 Wayfarer spa delivered yesterday. Eric at Falco's (aka THE SPA GUY) was very helpful in the process as was Jason the spa tech that handled the delivery and setup.

I was going to do electrical myself and priced out all the necessary hardware/components at Home Depot. Eric and Jason referred me to a local electrician that handles many of their tub installs. He bid it out and his price was only about $150 more than if I did it myself. In my eyes that was a good deal so he came out yesterday just a couple hours ahead of the tub delivery and got the wiring in place. The tub was then delivered on time and the electrician got it all hooked up. Now I'm just waiting on the electrical inspection.

The D1 is up to temp and I'm looking forward to my initial soak this evening.

I'll try to get a pic posted this weekend.

Thanks again to Eric and everyone else on the forum that assisted me with my questions through the research and purchase process.

- John

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Olympic,

No problem , We look forward to delivering your new D1 spa....

Hi everyone. We had our D1 Wayfarer spa delivered yesterday. Eric at Falco's (aka THE SPA GUY) was very helpful in the process as was Jason the spa tech that handled the delivery and setup.

I was going to do electrical myself and priced out all the necessary hardware/components at Home Depot. Eric and Jason referred me to a local electrician that handles many of their tub installs. He bid it out and his price was only about $150 more than if I did it myself. In my eyes that was a good deal so he came out yesterday just a couple hours ahead of the tub delivery and got the wiring in place. The tub was then delivered on time and the electrician got it all hooked up. Now I'm just waiting on the electrical inspection.

The D1 is up to temp and I'm looking forward to my initial soak this evening.

I'll try to get a pic posted this weekend.

Thanks again to Eric and everyone else on the forum that assisted me with my questions through the research and purchase process.

- John

John

Thank you for the review on the delivery, Enjoy the soak, B)B)B) Let us know how it goes. Again we appreciate your business, Enjoy your new D1 Wayfarer..

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