2 Years On Baqua

[chem geek]

For avoiding white water mold you can use BioGuard SoftSwim Assist or ProTeam System Support. You only need to use this once in a while, say every few months. It's mostly to keep your pipes free of this mold as you will be replacing your water every so often.

Richard

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

One caution I will give you that I don't think has been mentioned but I was reminded of when you said you wanted your spa to last a long time. Be on the alert for discoloration or clouding of plastic parts in your tub. Biguanide destroys some of the plastic materials used in hot tubs, notably the lens covers on some spa lights.

Truer words could not be spoken, but the problem is much greater than discoloration! Not trying to offend anyone, but here is my honest insight into the service end of the biguanide based systems:

I've repaired hot tubs for the last 18 years and have fixed hundreds of tubs for glue joint repairs on pvc fittings. I have not kept official records but I always ask what type of sanitizer has been used. I would estimate that 90 out of 100 used a Biguanide system, and most of these also had multiple glue joint leaks (sometimes 6-8 or more) v.s. chlorine/bromine based systems.

I think with the light lenses the ratio may be even more from my experiences.

Between service techs at my store we refer to Baquacil as "Crack-uacil".

For the record my store sells hot tubs, swimming pools, chemicals (including Baquacil), and services hot tubs.

So, I have been very happily using BaquaSpa in my Sundance Capri since August '06 with no problems. Is there anything preventatively short of switching to chlorine/bromine based systems that you'd recommend? My hot tub is in a sunroom, and both the ease of keeping the water clear and fresh and the absence of any smell compel me to stick with the BaquaSpa, but if there is something I could do now before problems begin, either to avoid the leaks you note or to avoid white mold, I'd love to hear it. Thanks.

I'm not a chemist so I don't know what chemical in the system causes the plastics to corrode, but something causes it to happen at a greater percentage than in tubs that use other sanitizers. Perhaps it is due to over-dosaging the water with Biguanide...

Again, I sell and service thousands of tubs and most have no problems with glue joint leaks...I'm just saying that of the glue joint/light lens repairs that I do...an overwhelming percentage of them use Biguanide as a sanitizer. Chances are that you will be fine...just pointing out that the potential is higher for this type of problem down the road.

[billy sharpstick]

Don't know of anything that will get rid of the cloudiness except a drain, refill and thorough filter cleaning but I can tell you how to keep it from happeneing next time. Buy some chlorine neutralizer at your local pool supply and add that to your fill wate BEFORE you add the biguanide. As an alternative you can fill the spa, shock it with liquid bleach to break down any chloramines used for water treatment and let it stand exposed to sunlight for a day. There should be no chlorine left in the water after that.

spa is empty now. i flushed out the water lines as best as i could and plan to dechlorinate and refill. there appear to be cavities under the seats. there is a grid of regularly spaced holes about 1/8" diameter in the seats. I can't see any connections to those spaces or any purpose for them. I don't recall noticing any water or air coming from them in operation. How much of a problem will these reservoirs cause if I can't flush all of the old cloudy water out before refilling and dechlorinating?

bill keiser

[SmilinBare]

Well, I'm happy to report that I can continue to say "So far so good" with BaquaSpa. I've been waiting for the s*** to hit the fan when I lift my tub cover and discover the dreaded white water mold but I ain't seen it yet. Comin' up on two years of BaquaSpa enjoyment and can't help but wonder if, for once, I lucked out and got the spa that doesn't seem to be affected adversely by biguanides.

[Private Shrink]

Well, I'm happy to report that I can continue to say "So far so good" with BaquaSpa. I've been waiting for the s*** to hit the fan when I lift my tub cover and discover the dreaded white water mold but I ain't seen it yet. Comin' up on two years of BaquaSpa enjoyment and can't help but wonder if, for once, I lucked out and got the spa that doesn't seem to be affected adversely by biguanides.

I feel exactly the same way. I'm at about 1 1/2 years and BaquaSpa has been great so far. Let's hope it continues.

[JRom]

Wow....Just found this site and this is exactly what is going on with my tub.

I have a D1 Diplomat that I have been using Baqua Spa since 03 .

2 months ago my water got cloudy before I was going to change it ...this didnt normally happen.

So I Changed it and put in my clean filters and within 2 weeks it went cloudy again.

I thought possibly my filters were to blame so I went out and go a new set and drained it again.

New filters and got it running thought all was going to be good but then again in 2 or 3 weeks it went cloudy.

So went and had it tested for metals this time and it showed up with copper and manganese I think !

So I used the metal contro for BaquaSpa and changed out the filters and It didnt reallly help

I just changed out the water today, dam cold out today to be doing it but anyway Its done.

I am going to switch over to clorine for the winter and see how it goes.

Just waiting for it to come up to temp and add the metal remover and adjust Ph before adding any type of sanitizer.

We have Baquacil in our pool too, so now with it closed for the season it seems like a good time to change.

If it goes well with the Hot tub I may even switch out the pool in the spring.....I had a rough season this year with

the white mold in the pool....and I was using the Ultra...

John

[chem geek]

John,

Using Baquacil in a spa/hot tub is easier due to the regular water change, though white water mold can still be a problem. In a pool, however, it's usually harder to manage a Baquacil and this thread and this thread can give you an idea of how many Baquacil pool users are fed up and want to convert to a chlorine pool.

This isn't one of those things where there is certainty that using Baquacil will lead to problems, but statistically it is much harder to maintain a Baquacil pool over time. It is certainly more expensive.

Richard

[JRom]

John,

Using Baquacil in a spa/hot tub is easier due to the regular water change, though white water mold can still be a problem. In a pool, however, it's usually harder to manage a Baquacil and this thread and this thread can give you an idea of how many Baquacil pool users are fed up and want to convert to a chlorine pool.

This isn't one of those things where there is certainty that using Baquacil will lead to problems, but statistically it is much harder to maintain a Baquacil pool over time. It is certainly more expensive.

Richard

Thanks for those links, It is putting the icing on the cake ! I have wanted to change to chlorine for a few years now but my wife is the one who wants Baquacil. She is in the pool all the time, doesnt want her hair to go green and bathing suits to be bleached out. So I will start up with the Hot Tub tomorrow and see how that goes.

In the spring when I open up the pool I will do something, possibly chlorine or similar..

Looking forward to saving some money....I was told that Baquacil was going up again this coming year !

I must say though Baquacil has been good for the past 3 years, it was only this year in the pool that went out of control with the pink slime and white mold after that. I am beginning to wonder if its what contaminated my Hot tub.

We would jump from one to the other all the time so who knows.

I am just praying for clear water in the hottub at the moment !!

I will have to read up a little here !

John

[chem geek]

John,

My wife is very sensitive in general and this includes her sense of smell and irritation to chemicals. So we looked at various alternatives for sanitation when we got our pool and settled on a properly maintained chlorine regimen. Unfortunately, during the winter she swims in a commercial indoor pool that doesn't use Cyanuric Acid (CYA) since most such pools don't since they don't think they have to since there is no sunlight. Unfortunately, that makes such pools over-chlorinated (even at 1-2 ppm FC) so my wife's swimsuits degrade (elasticity wears out) in just one season of use. By contrast, in our own outdoor pool at 3.5 ppm FC and 30 ppm CYA, there is no noticeable degradation whatsoever over a swim season and only a very slight degradation after 4 years of use (she uses different suits during the summer and winter). Also, she notices her skin and hair being more dried out or flaky when using the indoor pool than our outdoor pool. The bottom line is that if you properly maintain your pool and use CYA to keep the effective disinfecting chlorine concentration low, then she should be fine. A normal level of chlorine to keep away algae is an FC level of around 11.5% of the CYA level with an absolute minimum FC of 7.5% of the CYA level.

If you don't mind spending more money and want the chlorine concentration even lower, then you can use a weekly dose of PolyQuat 60 algaecide. If you do that, then you can use a lower FC level of around 3% of the CYA level, so 1.8 ppm FC with 60 ppm CYA for example. I wouldn't go much lower than that since you still want sufficient disinfection.

By the way, green hair is caused by copper in a pool (which at higher pH, precipitates out of the water), not by chlorine, bromine or Biguanide. So avoid copper-based algaecides or copper ionization or other copper products (e.g. Nature2). Also, make sure you don't let the pH of the pool drop too low (especially not below 7.0) as that can corrode a copper heat exchanger that may be in your gas heater (some are titanium or cupro-nickel alloys).

Richard

[JRom]

Hi Richard

Thank you for both of your detailed responses to my posts.

I appreciate the time you took to answer my questions.

I think my tub is on its way too being normal....

I now have to think about getting a decent test kit, if you have one you can recommed

that would be great !

Thanks Again !

John

[chem geek]

The Taylor K-2006 available at a low price here or the TF-100 test kit available from tftestkits.com here. Because the TF100 reagent bottles hold 36% more, the pricing of these two kits is about the same per test. The TF-100 doesn't have the acid/base demand reagents, but is able to test CYA down to 20 ppm (instead of 30 ppm in the K-2006) and the pH test between the two is different with the K-2006 going from 7.0, 7.2, 7.4, 7.6, 7.8, 8.0 while the TF-100 goes from 6.8, 7.2, 7.5, 7.8, 8.2. You'll be getting a good test kit either way.

Richard

[jbofthe74]

I have been using baquaspa for 2 years and recently the chemical smell has become very strong. Also finding white hard debris on the bottom that disintegrate when picked up. Any thoughts?

[Steam6418]

I had also experienced the same cloudy water condition after using the Baqua Spa system for several years with no problems.  After trying numerous remedies (including all known tub plumbing purge products) over the past 3 years, I recently performed (2 months ago) the following (which I found on another forum) which has completely solved this issue.  I drained my 400 gal hot tub and wiped it down, removed filter, then poured in 12 gallons of common concentrated laundry bleach (not low splash) found at local grocery store.  I then filled hot tub with water to normal operating level, brought it up to maximum temperature (104 degrees), then let it run and circulate for 36 hours.  Next, I drained the tub and wiped it down again (observed numerous tiny white/tan gunk particles).  I then added water again, and as level reached about 1/4-1/3 full, I stopped adding water.  I then turned power on and pulsed jets on maximum just enough to power flush out internal plumbing, then shut jets off and turned power back off.  I next drained hot tub and wiped down again.  I then refilled hot tub completely, brought it back up to max temp (104), and ran for another 24-36 hours (with cover off as much as possible to help degas water of residual chlorine).  Lastly, I drained hot tub and wiped down again, then refilled, brought up to normal operating temp, and resumed Baqua Spa chemical treatment system.  Water has stayed sparkling clear, just like when tub was new.  I believe the root problem was biofilm in the internal plumbing that couldn't be detected by typical chemistry test strips and more in depth local spa dealer testing.  The cloudiness and odor would always worsen after a few days as the biofilm bloomed, and adding more Baqua Spa sanitizer only enhanced this bloom once it has taken hold.  I hope this helps others, it clearly worked for me.