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2 Years On Baqua


artie

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Been using Baqua for 2 years with very good results until recently. I own a sundance optima with no ozonator. My water now gets cloudy within a week of refilling. And it smells a bit when I open the top. Chemicals are all within optimal range, filter cartridges are new and I have even started to dechlorinate my topping off. Is it true that there are some bacterias that develope in peroxide based spas that become resistant to sanitizers? I cannot use chlorine/bromine because of a skin condition. The cloudiness is white and does not appear to be calcium. I can see the bottom still but it is not clear at all Are there any possible fixes or chemical treatments that will clear it out between refills? And is it true that sometimes it is not fixable?

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Been using Baqua for 2 years with very good results until recently. I own a sundance optima with no ozonator. My water now gets cloudy within a week of refilling. And it smells a bit when I open the top. Chemicals are all within optimal range, filter cartridges are new and I have even started to dechlorinate my topping off. Is it true that there are some bacterias that develope in peroxide based spas that become resistant to sanitizers? I cannot use chlorine/bromine because of a skin condition. The cloudiness is white and does not appear to be calcium. I can see the bottom still but it is not clear at all Are there any possible fixes or chemical treatments that will clear it out between refills? And is it true that sometimes it is not fixable?

Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you because I've been using BaquaSpa on my Sundance Capri with ozonator since August with very good results. But your problem obviously unnerves me, because I just hope it never happens to me. I'd be interested in what some answers are. Good luck.

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Could be the beginnings of white water mold, which is very common in biguanide spas and pools after a few years. You have to understand that your sanitizer. PMBH or biguanide, is something that bacieria can develop a resistance to after a while (sort of like they do to antibiotics, not a bad analogy if I say so myself). The peroxide is simply your oxidizer. it is NOT your sanitizer. It can kill bactieria but it's purpose is to oxidize the dead bacteria killed by the PMBH. PMBH works by causing the cells to literally explode, which is the source of the 'baquagoo' that is all too common in biguanide santitized hot tubs and pools that can be seen as a scum along the water line and in the filter. If you truely are allergic to both chlorine and bromine (bromine is known sensitizer but chlorine allergy is MUCH rarer! A PROPERLY MAINTAINED chlorine system is fairly non irritating, actually probably less so than the peroxide oxidizer used in a biguanide system) then you are stuck. If the problem is bad you can drain, refill, and purge the spa with an enzyme product and start over but unless you totally sanitize and sterilize the spa in the process you will most likely introduce the same resistant strain of bacteria into the spa. Many, if not most people who start with biguanide based systems eventually switch over to chlorine exactly for these reasons. It seems that a biguanide spa or pool will run fine for about 2-5 years and then it starts to self destruct. You can literally pour hundreds of dollars into it each month trying to maintain clear, clean water but the situation usually just keeps getting worse. There are, of course, exceptions. Some people run fine on biguanide for years and never have problems but they seem to be in the minority. Perhaps they don't use their spas or pools very much. It is very easy to keep a spa with a very low bather load sanitized (biguanide, copper, silver all work in these cases) but once you start actually using it on regular basis chlorine and bromine really win hands down on keeping the water clear, clean and sanitized. Ozone might be of some help in your case but, once again, ozone is more effective as an oxidizer than a sanitizer. Also, it does not have any residual activity in the water (actually, a properly set up ozone generator will leave NO ozone in the water in the bathing area since ozone is toxic) so it will only work while your generator is running and the pump is on.

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Could be the beginnings of white water mold, which is very common in biguanide spas and pools after a few years. You have to understand that your sanitizer. PMBH or biguanide, is something that bacieria can develop a resistance to after a while (sort of like they do to antibiotics, not a bad analogy if I say so myself). The peroxide is simply your oxidizer. it is NOT your sanitizer. It can kill bactieria but it's purpose is to oxidize the dead bacteria killed by the PMBH. PMBH works by causing the cells to literally explode, which is the source of the 'baquagoo' that is all too common in biguanide santitized hot tubs and pools that can be seen as a scum along the water line and in the filter. If you truely are allergic to both chlorine and bromine (bromine is known sensitizer but chlorine allergy is MUCH rarer! A PROPERLY MAINTAINED chlorine system is fairly non irritating, actually probably less so than the peroxide oxidizer used in a biguanide system) then you are stuck. If the problem is bad you can drain, refill, and purge the spa with an enzyme product and start over but unless you totally sanitize and sterilize the spa in the process you will most likely introduce the same resistant strain of bacteria into the spa. Many, if not most people who start with biguanide based systems eventually switch over to chlorine exactly for these reasons. It seems that a biguanide spa or pool will run fine for about 2-5 years and then it starts to self destruct. You can literally pour hundreds of dollars into it each month trying to maintain clear, clean water but the situation usually just keeps getting worse. There are, of course, exceptions. Some people run fine on biguanide for years and never have problems but they seem to be in the minority. Perhaps they don't use their spas or pools very much. It is very easy to keep a spa with a very low bather load sanitized (biguanide, copper, silver all work in these cases) but once you start actually using it on regular basis chlorine and bromine really win hands down on keeping the water clear, clean and sanitized. Ozone might be of some help in your case but, once again, ozone is more effective as an oxidizer than a sanitizer. Also, it does not have any residual activity in the water (actually, a properly set up ozone generator will leave NO ozone in the water in the bathing area since ozone is toxic) so it will only work while your generator is running and the pump is on.

thanks for the response. I have draind and am in the process of disinfectant with 100 PPM dichlor. Will run for 24 hours. cleaned filter and headrests with acids. I am turning the air ducts off and on occasionally. I am not using the enzyme treatment because i dont have any. But I an going to get some if I have to do this again. Hopefully the massive chlorine hit will clean out the pipes. I will drain again tomorrow and refill and do a start up. Hopefully ill get lucky and it will be clean. I'll keep all informed and post a detailed protocol if it works.

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If I were you, I would not use 100 ppm Dichlor alone. For every 1 ppm of Free Chlorine (FC) introduced by Dichlor, you are also adding 0.9 ppm of Cyanuric Acid (CYA). Though adding enough Dichlor for 100 ppm will kill anything in your spa, it is technically no different in disinfection or oxidizing power than about 13 ppm of chlorine from bleach with no CYA. The problem is that after the chlorine dissipates, you will still be left with 90 ppm CYA! Instead, I would suggest you just start by shocking with bleach alone. You should not need to shock with more than 10 ppm bleach if you do not have any CYA left, though CYA does tend to stick around in pipes and on surfaces, so you could do 20 ppm bleach if you want, but definitely not more than that. After the chlorine gets down to around 5 ppm or so, you can then use Dichlor the first few times, but not more than the amount to cumulatively add 20 ppm FC to your spa. After that, use bleach only -- no more Dichlor -- until you change the water in your spa in a few months. This assumes that you want to switch to using chlorine which, as waterbear pointed out, is something that usually does not cause any problems. With the CYA from the initial Dichlor (for 20 ppm FC) you will have around 18 ppm CYA and by maintaining an FC of 5 ppm this is equivalent to having just 0.27 ppm FC if no CYA were present and that is very unlikely to cause any problems with allergy or skin irritation.

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What chemgeek said is totally correct. You would be better off using bleach!

My main caution is to be aware that chlorine and biguanide are NOT compatible and if there is any chlorine residue left when you restart your biguanide system your water will turn an interesting color, to say the least! If you are doing a biquanide to chlorine conversion you need to start by draining and refilling, adding bleach to obtain at least 15 ppm free chlorine (up to about 20 ppm) and make sure that the chlorine level will hold overnight and the water stays clear and does not cloud or turn off color. If so you have oxizided all the biguande in your system and can then replace the filter with a new one and enjoy your chlorine system. If not. ,maintain the free chlorine levels at at east 15 ppm until they hold and the water is clear, then replace the filter.

IF you are trying to kill white water mold or pink slime (both bacterial) then a free chlorine level in the neighborhood of 20-30 ppm is usually effective.

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...I've been using BaquaSpa on my Sundance Capri with ozonator since August with very good results....I just hope it never happens to me. I'd be interested in what some answers are. ...

I'm paying attention, here, too as I've had good luck in the 13 months I've been using BaquaSpa. I'm hesitant to post any concerns of mine, here, for "fear" of the many BaquaSpa naysayers who seem to have that "nyah-nyah-I-told-you-so" attitude having a good laugh at my expense.

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...I've been using BaquaSpa on my Sundance Capri with ozonator since August with very good results....I just hope it never happens to me. I'd be interested in what some answers are. ...

I'm paying attention, here, too as I've had good luck in the 13 months I've been using BaquaSpa. I'm hesitant to post any concerns of mine, here, for "fear" of the many BaquaSpa naysayers who seem to have that "nyah-nyah-I-told-you-so" attitude having a good laugh at my expense.

Hey Smilinbare, take it like A MAN. If you screw up let ALL know, you might save someone else some trouble down the road. I've not seen anyone being put down for being honest in their efforts for knowledge. There do appear to be some that are hard headed and not willing to admit their F--- UP's. BE A MAN, no body is going to hit you.

GREG!

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...I've been using BaquaSpa on my Sundance Capri with ozonator since August with very good results....I just hope it never happens to me. I'd be interested in what some answers are. ...

I'm paying attention, here, too as I've had good luck in the 13 months I've been using BaquaSpa. I'm hesitant to post any concerns of mine, here, for "fear" of the many BaquaSpa naysayers who seem to have that "nyah-nyah-I-told-you-so" attitude having a good laugh at my expense.

SmilinBare,

I would not laugh just because you were taken in by the manufacturer's hype about biguanide. It happens to too many people with too many of the products that we are sold for our spas and pools as the "next best thing to sliced bread". I remember several months back when I posted very similar information and you blasted me for 'bashing" baqua. I wonder what is changing your mind as you enter the second year of your biguanide use? Perhaps if you post your concerens a solution might be found.

IMHO, biguanide is a viable EPA approved sanitizer system but it's drawbacks outweigh its advantages except in special circumstances, such as a true halogen sensitivity. It is certainly the most expensive sanitizer system out there, especially when the water starts having problems. When it works (usually for the first couple of years) it works great if used properly.

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SmilinBare,

I would not laugh just because you were taken in by the manufacturer's hype about biguanide. It happens to too many people with too many of the products that we are sold for our spas and pools as the "next best thing to sliced bread". I remember several months back when I posted very similar information and you blasted me for 'bashing" baqua. I wonder what is changing your mind as you enter the second year of your biguanide use? Perhaps if you post your concerens a solution might be found.

IMHO, biguanide is a viable EPA approved sanitizer system but it's drawbacks outweigh its advantages except in special circumstances, such as a true halogen sensitivity. It is certainly the most expensive sanitizer system out there, especially when the water starts having problems. When it works (usually for the first couple of years) it works great if used properly.

Waterbear, I would appreciate your insight into my "future." As I stated above, I've been using BaquaSpa since August when I got my new Sundance Capri with ozonator. I have been very happy with it since the water is always sparkling and pleasant, and only a small amount of goo appears in the filter well. I don't consider the cost prohibitive. Now, my tub is indoors, inside of a sunroom of total glass. When we use the tub, which is nearly everyday (only my wife and I), we shower thoroughly and go without clothing. We have a powerful exhaust fan, ceiling fans and we open windows. The water parameters have always been stable, I suspect in part, because we are diligent about keeping it free of contaminents as much as possible. So far, so good. However, you and others have suggested that BaquaSpa good times will probably not last forever. My wife is VERY sensitive to chemicals (I know that biguanide and all the other stuff with BaquaSpa are chemicals too), and she didn't even want to try Chlorine (I know...if done correctly, no smell and very effective). If and when we start running into water problems, which of the other two methods, Chroine or Bromine, do you suggest? I understand that having it indoors might be a factor, having an ozonator might be a factor, and having a hypersensitive wife might be a factor. As of now, I just test with the strips, and put stuff in once a week. I certainly don't want to get into adding stuff everyday before or after use, since many times I'm at work and my wife goes in alone. Thanks in advance for any thoughts (and don't dis BaquaSpa or I'll cry). David

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Waterbear, I would appreciate your insight into my "future." As I stated above, I've been using BaquaSpa since August when I got my new Sundance Capri with ozonator. I have been very happy with it since the water is always sparkling and pleasant, and only a small amount of goo appears in the filter well. I don't consider the cost prohibitive. Now, my tub is indoors, inside of a sunroom of total glass. When we use the tub, which is nearly everyday (only my wife and I), we shower thoroughly and go without clothing. We have a powerful exhaust fan, ceiling fans and we open windows. The water parameters have always been stable, I suspect in part, because we are diligent about keeping it free of contaminents as much as possible. So far, so good. However, you and others have suggested that BaquaSpa good times will probably not last forever. My wife is VERY sensitive to chemicals (I know that biguanide and all the other stuff with BaquaSpa are chemicals too), and she didn't even want to try Chlorine (I know...if done correctly, no smell and very effective). If and when we start running into water problems, which of the other two methods, Chroine or Bromine, do you suggest? I understand that having it indoors might be a factor, having an ozonator might be a factor, and having a hypersensitive wife might be a factor. As of now, I just test with the strips, and put stuff in once a week. I certainly don't want to get into adding stuff everyday before or after use, since many times I'm at work and my wife goes in alone. Thanks in advance for any thoughts (and don't dis BaquaSpa or I'll cry). David

My advice is that if it is working for you now use it and if and when you start having problem then explore other solutions. Chlorine would be my first choice (I would NOT use dichlor in an indoor spa but then again your spa might get enough sunlight to warrent a little bit when your first fill) if your wife is sensitive to chemicals since, IMHO, it is milder than bromine and less likely to cause an allergic reaction. In the meantime, enjoy the spa and worry about problems when they appear!

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I don't recall "blasting" anyone, Waterbear, simply because it's not considerate. Roll your eyes if you want to :rolleyes: when I say that I try to adhere to The Golden Rule. Besides, I'm a firm believer in "What goes around comes around". Here on The Spa Forum I've tried to keep my posts to the point and without emotion as the antics of some of the others are nauseating to me.

I LIKE BaquaSpa! Before my wife and I discovered the stuff, we were dead set against getting a hot tub because we just don't like chlorine.

I read your post about white water mold and have filed it away in my hot tub notes for future reference though I hope I never need it. You can rest assured that when and if I experience problems with my hot tub water chemistry, I'll be sure to post about them here. After all, this website is a great resource, IMHO.

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I don't recall "blasting" anyone, Waterbear, simply because it's not considerate. Roll your eyes if you want to :rolleyes: when I say that I try to adhere to The Golden Rule. Besides, I'm a firm believer in "What goes around comes around". Here on The Spa Forum I've tried to keep my posts to the point and without emotion as the antics of some of the others are nauseating to me.

I LIKE BaquaSpa! Before my wife and I discovered the stuff, we were dead set against getting a hot tub because we just don't like chlorine.

I read your post about white water mold and have filed it away in my hot tub notes for future reference though I hope I never need it. You can rest assured that when and if I experience problems with my hot tub water chemistry, I'll be sure to post about them here. After all, this website is a great resource, IMHO.

Perhaps 'blasted' is not the right word but I refer you to the thread you started on Jan 2, 2006 entitled "Baqua?" in which you attemted to refute every statement that I made based on only the experiences with your own spa, especially the cost differences and you even admitted that you had no experience with other sanitizer systems. I can also dig up some of you other posts in some other threads if you memory needs more of a refresher.

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Waterbear wrote>>Perhaps 'blasted' is not the right word but I refer you to the thread you started on Jan 2, 2006 entitled "Baqua?" in which you attemted to refute every statement that I made based on only the experiences with your own spa, especially the cost differences and you even admitted that you had no experience with other sanitizer systems. I can also dig up some of you other posts in some other threads if you memory needs more of a refresher<<

Okay, I did as you suggested and went back and read through the string I started on 2/2/06 and I don't see where I "refuted" anything you wrote either. Instead, I simply offered my opinion from my own experience which I clearly stated as being the only experience I've had with Baquaspa and any other hot tub water treatment, for that matter. I never claimed you were wrong. Nor did I claim that I'm an expert on the subject. I was just offering my opinion as a result of my own experience. I don't recall reading anywhere on this web site that only those who are "in the business" are allowed to post opinions. If I've missed something to that effect, I'm sure one of the moderators will set me straight.

Please, "refresh my memory" if I've written that I am an expert. I participate, here, because I would like to learn whatever I can about my hot tub and how to care for it. It cost me a lot of money and I want it to last a long time. Who knows? Maybe I'll eventually find out that longterm use of Baquaspa results in problems down the line. If that happens, I plan to post my experience, here. I think it's a nice gesture to offer my opinion that may be of help to other potential hot tub buyers and users. That's all. If you and Jim the Jim wish to suspect that I'm a Baquaspa sales rep, doesn't matter to me.

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As I've reported before, I get the slime/goo/peanut buttery crud, too. It shows up at the waterline usually for the first week after I've emptied/refilled the tub as well as when I've had guest tubbers who may not be clear as to why I ask that they shower before using the tub. I wipe it off with a scrubbie. Big deal. Oh. And it gets caught in the filter strainer basket assembly which requires a little more elbow grease and patience to clean it off. It doesn't require a PhD to understand that body oils, dead skin, hair and other contaminants don't simply evaporate.

Once again, Jim (see your post of 10/13/2006 where you wrote >>The perfect water system does exist. It is much better on your spa and your skin than Baqua or any other standard systems. It does cost money to use it.<< but you never responded to Private Shrink's follow-up request to name the "system") , you've insinuated that there are "other ways" to treat the water in a tub without excess chemicals but you've neglected to expand on your claim.

So Jim. do you think there is a better way to treat water in a hot tub? And, if so, how is it done? And PLEASE! To be clear, Jim. My intentions are not to "blast" you nor "refute" what you are saying. I'm asking you because I'm interested in "learning".

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As I've reported before, I get the slime/goo/peanut buttery crud, too. It shows up at the waterline usually for the first week after I've emptied/refilled the tub as well as when I've had guest tubbers who may not be clear as to why I ask that they shower before using the tub. I wipe it off with a scrubbie. Big deal. Oh. And it gets caught in the filter strainer basket assembly which requires a little more elbow grease and patience to clean it off. It doesn't require a PhD to understand that body oils, dead skin, hair and other contaminants don't simply evaporate.

Once again, Jim (see your post of 10/13/2006 where you wrote >>The perfect water system does exist. It is much better on your spa and your skin than Baqua or any other standard systems. It does cost money to use it.<< but you never responded to Private Shrink's follow-up request to name the "system") , you've insinuated that there are "other ways" to treat the water in a tub without excess chemicals but you've neglected to expand on your claim.

So Jim. do you think there is a better way to treat water in a hot tub? And, if so, how is it done? And PLEASE! To be clear, Jim. My intentions are not to "blast" you nor "refute" what you are saying. I'm asking you because I'm interested in "learning".

Hey smilinbear. The goo is from chlorine reacting with your biguanide. I'm not sure why no one has told you about this yet <_< . The solution is a bit problematic. When you replace your water it is full of city chlorine. You need to either leave the tub open for a couple of days to release the chlorine as gas through the air or dechlorinate with a chemical. If youy dont do this the sanitizer will react with the chlorine giving you GOO! Just topping off your system with chlorinated water will create some goo. I actually use a five gallon bucket and dechlorinate it before i top off. This seems to have stopped my goo problem.

Beyond all that I seem to have repaired my water mold problem. Here is the process.

take out and replace filters. if the filter is very new and expensive you could try chemically cleaning it for at least 24 hours.

Drain all the water from the tub, every bit. Use a wet dry vac and try to suck out water even from the jets and intakes. You'll never get it all, but get a bunch.

fill your tub with water. Leave the filters out(they shoul already be soaking if you are not buying new.)If you can, buy some of the enzymes available at the links at this spa site. and use as directed. (Mind you that I did not have any enzymes and had to skip this step. next time I will probably use them.

add 1oo ppm of dichlor. For a 500 gallon spa that is about 13 oz.

run the spa continuously for 24 hours without the filters.

turn on and off the blowers occasionally for several minutes at a time but keep the filter motors running.

you dont need the heater on because you are going to dump this water.

Drain the tub. If possible blast some water through the pipes after draining this might knock some stuff that just layed in the pipes after draining.

Vaccuum the water out completely. There should be alot of white crap in the bottom of the tub. This is the mold. So you want to throughly clean the sides, filter box ,anything that has gunk on it. Rinse the entire tub with fresh water. Drain and vaccum completely again.

Fill the hot tub and run it with the air jets on and the filter back in. If using biguanide leave the top off or dechlorinate.

After one or 2 days rinse your filter out with a high pressure hose because some of the gunk will still be moving through your system.

You are done.

I have had crystle clear water for 2 weeks now. I'll let you know about how long it lasts.

I will be switching from baqua to leisure time biguanide. The base chemical is the same(hydrogen pyroxide) but they are not as dogmatic about their use with other products. Remember the best way to be sure you have a water mold is when your pyroxide dissapears in a day. That is because the mold eats it up. So if your oxidizer level dissapears right after you put it in you have water mold.

Good luck

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A couple of points I would like to make to the three previous posters---

First to SmilinBare--Why don't we just agree to disagree and start fresh here and now. Biguanide IS a viable sanitizer but it does have more downsides than the other EPA approved ones currently available. I hope you have contunued good luck with it. One caution I will give you that I don't think has been mentioned but I was reminded of when you said you wanted your spa to last a long time. Be on the alert for discoloration or clouding of plastic parts in your tub. Biguanide destroys some of the plastic materials used in hot tubs, notably the lens covers on some spa lights. BTW, I have never implied that you might be a Baqua rep---just to set the record straight!

Jim the Jim--the 'slime' is usually the end product of biguanide sanitation. Biguaide causes the cell walls of bacteria to explode and the peroxide oxidizer is not strong enough to 'burn them up' totally so this collects on the wall and in the filter as 'goo'. In addition, if there is chlorine in the fill water this will start to oxidize the biguanide and add to the goo.

Artie--The Leisure Time biguanide system (Leisure Time Free) is really no different than either BaquaSpa or SoftSoak or any of the other brands of biguanide based sanitizers. The Biguanide or PMBH is your sanitizer, the peroxide is simply the oxidizer to help 'burn off' the organics that collect in the water from the sanitation process and from normal tub use. They are have the exact same compatability issues with certain spa chemicals because this is an issue with the bigainide itself. It is not really the brand that matters. it is the chemical! On the Leisure Time website it says that the Free system is only compatible with the Leisure Time Simple Spa products, which are used with all Leisure Time sanitizes. This just means that they have not included any products in this line that are incompatible with biguanide. There are no spa care products that I can think of that are incompatible either chlorine or bromine except for bigianide! (And it is not normal practice to mix different SANITIZERS together at the same time, anyway--except maybe chlorine and bromine in a bromine system)

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A couple of points I would like to make to the three previous posters---

First to SmilinBare--Why don't we just agree to disagree and start fresh here and now. Biguanide IS a viable sanitizer but it does have more downsides than the other EPA approved ones currently available. I hope you have contunued good luck with it. One caution I will give you that I don't think has been mentioned but I was reminded of when you said you wanted your spa to last a long time. Be on the alert for discoloration or clouding of plastic parts in your tub. Biguanide destroys some of the plastic materials used in hot tubs, notably the lens covers on some spa lights. BTW, I have never implied that you might be a Baqua rep---just to set the record straight!

Jim the Jim--the 'slime' is usually the end product of biguanide sanitation. Biguaide causes the cell walls of bacteria to explode and the peroxide oxidizer is not strong enough to 'burn them up' totally so this collects on the wall and in the filter as 'goo'. In addition, if there is chlorine in the fill water this will start to oxidize the biguanide and add to the goo.

Artie--The Leisure Time biguanide system (Leisure Time Free) is really no different than either BaquaSpa or SoftSoak or any of the other brands of biguanide based sanitizers. The Biguanide or PMBH is your sanitizer, the peroxide is simply the oxidizer to help 'burn off' the organics that collect in the water from the sanitation process and from normal tub use. They are have the exact same compatability issues with certain spa chemicals because this is an issue with the bigainide itself. It is not really the brand that matters. it is the chemical! On the Leisure Time website it says that the Free system is only compatible with the Leisure Time Simple Spa products, which are used with all Leisure Time sanitizes. This just means that they have not included any products in this line that are incompatible with biguanide. There are no spa care products that I can think of that are incompatible either chlorine or bromine except for bigianide! (And it is not normal practice to mix different SANITIZERS together at the same time, anyway--except maybe chlorine and bromine in a bromine system)

Waterbear, thankyou for clarifying my anecdotal info. I guess I feel better about leisure time products because they dont seem to have the same exclusive relationshps with their sellers. It is easier to get at more places so I can compare recomendations.

JIM,JIM,JIM, remember when you have a water mold problem your oxidizer will be depleted so you wont be able to break destroy the dead bacteria that the sanitizer has created. I really recommend getting the enzymes available to kill and break up the mold in your pipes the next time you refill your tub. Water mold is insidious and a scorched earth response is necessary.

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Artie,

Just an FYI, Leisure Time, Robarb, Rendezvous (GLB), Applied Biochemists, and Ultima pool products are all manufactured by Advantis Technoligies in GA. If you compare the Leisure Time, Robarb, and GLB/Rendezvous spa product lines you will see quite a bit of duplication of basically identical products.

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If you want to really learn about hot tubs and chemistry, you have to get away from the spa industry and read and study real information. So, much is tainted by money and the need to sell something.

Jim,

I have to agree 1000% with this statement! If you look at the info I post on water chemistry, for example, much of it goes against 'standard' pool and spa advice and dogma but is based on solid chemistry. (And I find it interesting that the industry is beginning to change some of their dogma and update it as customers become more saavy and technically minded!)

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Artie. It never dawned on me that, of course, the water I buy from the town is chlorinated and reacts to the biguanide! The friend who turned me on to Baquaspa is on his own well so he has virtually no "goo" issue. I tried your 5-gallon bucket suggestion, last week, and so far no goo. Good idea.

I've saved your's and waterbear's suggestions to my ever growing Baquaspa notes file. I appreciate you guys taking the time to share of your knowledge and experience.

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  • 8 months later...
Hey smilinbear. The goo is from chlorine reacting with your biguanide. I'm not sure why no one has told you about this yet <_< . The solution is a bit problematic. When you replace your water it is full of city chlorine. . . .

my tub has a cloudiness since i refilled it last week. i put some clarifier in it two days ago, but it hasn't improved.

it never occurred to me that the fresh chlorine(i can barely breathe when filling it from the light spray of it in the air!) would interact with the baqua chemicals. (several years ago a friend of mine refilled his pool with the same tampa tap water. when he tested it it to see how much chlorine to add, it was so high it was over the range of his test strip!)

so, is there any hope in clearing up the cloudiness i now have? at first there was a bit of white specs floating around until they got filtered out. i attributed this to the fact that the tub had sat unused for several months before this refilling.

i don't have anything that i would call "goo", though.

bill keiser

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Hey smilinbear. The goo is from chlorine reacting with your biguanide. I'm not sure why no one has told you about this yet <_< . The solution is a bit problematic. When you replace your water it is full of city chlorine. . . .

my tub has a cloudiness since i refilled it last week. i put some clarifier in it two days ago, but it hasn't improved.

it never occurred to me that the fresh chlorine(i can barely breathe when filling it from the light spray of it in the air!) would interact with the baqua chemicals. (several years ago a friend of mine refilled his pool with the same tampa tap water. when he tested it it to see how much chlorine to add, it was so high it was over the range of his test strip!)

so, is there any hope in clearing up the cloudiness i now have? at first there was a bit of white specs floating around until they got filtered out. i attributed this to the fact that the tub had sat unused for several months before this refilling.

i don't have anything that i would call "goo", though.

bill keiser

Don't know of anything that will get rid of the cloudiness except a drain, refill and thorough filter cleaning but I can tell you how to keep it from happeneing next time. Buy some chlorine neutralizer at your local pool supply and add that to your fill wate BEFORE you add the biguanide. As an alternative you can fill the spa, shock it with liquid bleach to break down any chloramines used for water treatment and let it stand exposed to sunlight for a day. There should be no chlorine left in the water after that.

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One caution I will give you that I don't think has been mentioned but I was reminded of when you said you wanted your spa to last a long time. Be on the alert for discoloration or clouding of plastic parts in your tub. Biguanide destroys some of the plastic materials used in hot tubs, notably the lens covers on some spa lights.

Truer words could not be spoken, but the problem is much greater than discoloration! Not trying to offend anyone, but here is my honest insight into the service end of the biguanide based systems:

I've repaired hot tubs for the last 18 years and have fixed hundreds of tubs for glue joint repairs on pvc fittings. I have not kept official records but I always ask what type of sanitizer has been used. I would estimate that 90 out of 100 used a Biguanide system, and most of these also had multiple glue joint leaks (sometimes 6-8 or more) v.s. chlorine/bromine based systems.

I think with the light lenses the ratio may be even more from my experiences.

Between service techs at my store we refer to Baquacil as "Crack-uacil".

For the record my store sells hot tubs, swimming pools, chemicals (including Baquacil), and services hot tubs.

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One caution I will give you that I don't think has been mentioned but I was reminded of when you said you wanted your spa to last a long time. Be on the alert for discoloration or clouding of plastic parts in your tub. Biguanide destroys some of the plastic materials used in hot tubs, notably the lens covers on some spa lights.

Truer words could not be spoken, but the problem is much greater than discoloration! Not trying to offend anyone, but here is my honest insight into the service end of the biguanide based systems:

I've repaired hot tubs for the last 18 years and have fixed hundreds of tubs for glue joint repairs on pvc fittings. I have not kept official records but I always ask what type of sanitizer has been used. I would estimate that 90 out of 100 used a Biguanide system, and most of these also had multiple glue joint leaks (sometimes 6-8 or more) v.s. chlorine/bromine based systems.

I think with the light lenses the ratio may be even more from my experiences.

Between service techs at my store we refer to Baquacil as "Crack-uacil".

For the record my store sells hot tubs, swimming pools, chemicals (including Baquacil), and services hot tubs.

So, I have been very happily using BaquaSpa in my Sundance Capri since August '06 with no problems. Is there anything preventatively short of switching to chlorine/bromine based systems that you'd recommend? My hot tub is in a sunroom, and both the ease of keeping the water clear and fresh and the absence of any smell compel me to stick with the BaquaSpa, but if there is something I could do now before problems begin, either to avoid the leaks you note or to avoid white mold, I'd love to hear it. Thanks.

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