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tony123
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LOL.....every time a Master post lands on this forum it ends the same way.......Other dealers "bashing" them. As far as advertising, if anyone thinks (argues) that the other brands don't use a "slanted" approach they are FOOLS.

Any independant folks reading this....keep in mind, as far as I can tell, no one bashing ownes a Master as their personal hot tub. If they start posting now.......well that would just be amazing wouldn't it..... :lol:

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Other dealers "bashing" them. As far as advertising, if anyone thinks (argues) that the other brands don't use a "slanted" approach they are FOOLS.

Any independant folks reading this....keep in mind, as far as I can tell, no one bashing ownes a Master as their personal hot tub. If they start posting now.......well that would just be amazing wouldn't it..... :lol:

Not everyone uses such a tactic but its true that Master is not alone in this type of thing but Kreg is trying to argue that this paid for advertising is some sort of "independent research results" when its really like the fake Consumer's Digest "awards" or like the Master scam website we exposed here called hottubbroker.com.

Any independant folks reading this....keep in mind, as far as I can tell, no one bashing ownes a Master as their personal hot tub. If they start posting now.......well that would just be amazing wouldn't it..... :lol:

There is plenty of feedback from Master owners on these sites. If I had the addresses if these people below I'd invite them to chime in.

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=1602

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=5625

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?md=read;id=9485

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?md=read;id=9493

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?md=read;id=9513

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.pl?md=read;id=96106

But not all the reviews I see are totally negative. This guy liked the spa, he just hated the warranty and cost of operation (ignore the rant about the trip charge since that is not really that uncommon or common just to Master).

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?page=1;md=read;id=9588

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:wacko:

What ???? there are independent folks here??? really???? I mean really really independent folks... not just the fake independent folks... NO... are you sure???? Really????? :lol:

Given your post is on the heels of my comment. I can't help but take offense at that.

Oh well, every one is entitled to thier opinion.

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Can I ask a probing question.

The 2009 sales figures, were they for the United States or worldwide. You see if it's only US figures then it's understandable that top honours will go to US tub manufacturers, it is the biggest and longest established market where people generally are very patriotic and understandably so.

If I am right then look again at the results

1. Jacuzzi/ Sundance.......... 800

2. Hot Springs / Caldera...... 700

3. Master Spas................ 300

4. Cal Spas................... 350

5. Dynasty.................... 200

6. Thermo Spas................ ?

7. Arctic Spas................ 250

8. Hydropool.................. 220

9. Coast Spas................. 175

10. Beachcomber............... 150

It does put a slightly different view on things when this is taken into consideration. Another thing that must be taken into account is that certain manufacturers have been doing this a very long time and have not only built up a reputation but also a very large dealer network compared to some others.

Back to this debate, I don't fully understand why certain threads that are opened about some brands always end up in the back biting we have here, maybe the established members who are also connected to the industry dislike the competition and see them as threats or maybe the most vocal members have their preferred brands and disapprove of these up-start brands.

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I don't fully understand why certain threads that are opened about some brands always end up in the back biting we have here, maybe the established members who are also connected to the industry dislike the competition and see them as threats or maybe the most vocal members have their preferred brands and disapprove of these up-start brands.

The thread actaully was uneventful the first 8 days, just a few responses that were general and not negative. It wasn't the post stating March 17th that it took "the turn".

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The thread actaully was uneventful the first 8 days, just a few responses that were general and not negative. It wasn't the post stating March 17th that it took "the turn".

I read the post made on the 17th and in all honest I completely agree with his opinion because the general reaction on here is to dismiss their sales practice and in turn dismiss the brand as well. I'm in the same boat, some of the remarks I got for buying a Coast were less than promising yet here I am 9 months in and very thing is rosy with none of the problems I was lead to believe would happen.

I believe every brand can and well have faults from time to time but it's how the dealer deals with this that determines the overall ownership experience.

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I read the post made on the 17th and in all honest I completely agree with his opinion because the general reaction on here is to dismiss their sales practice and in turn dismiss the brand as well. I'm in the same boat, some of the remarks I got for buying a Coast were less than promising yet here I am 9 months in and very thing is rosy with none of the problems I was lead to believe would happen.

I believe every brand can and well have faults from time to time but it's how the dealer deals with this that determines the overall ownership experience.

Hopefully no one has ever said EVERY spa of any particular brand will be bad or that EVERY spa of antoher will be 100% pleasing. While I may not be a fan of Master or their corporate dealings for instance I certainly know they have many owners they can point to who think the brand is great but we'd have to take a decent sized BLIND sampling to really know.

If we assume the best spa brand has 95% satisfaction (if there was some definitive way to measure it) while maybe the worst would be at 80% satisfaction, in such a case that is a HUGE disparity statistically YET if you talk to one of the 5% who were unhappy with the "better" brand they'll tell its BS, that brand is not as good as everyone says. If you talk to anyone from the 80% of those happy with the "lesser" brand they'll tell you "BS, this brand is great".

A sample of one is just that, a single data point. Now I actually have no opinion of Coast so don't think I'm discrediting your opinion but you liking it because yours has been great doesn't make it a great brand any more than one person disliking it based on their experience makes it junk overall. Be happy with the fact its been great for you and hopefully your dealer has been great as well. Don't sweat it when someone has a lesser opinion of the brand than you, you have to have thick skin here.

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Worldwide results

Thanks, though do you happen to know how big the RotW is compared to the North American market?

I do know one thing when I was considering a tub was that everyone and their dog told me to buy a N/American brand and no other, and I would reckon my purchase is typical of most people in that we steered clear of brands from else where.

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Of the links provided to the "real master" spa owners, the first is highly suspect... totally reads like a spa guy, too much of the right language and hyping two spas while he disses a third??? AND THE LAST GUY DOES NOT EVEN OWN ONE!!!

Just because they post as an owner does not mean they are... And yes I know there are a few real ones but sometimes I really think we are all just sitting here talking to each other :lol: The other ones complain about the show, and the sales guys... not the spa...

Again the big part and the common thread we always see is the dealer makes the difference....

So far the spas here that were sold through the traveling pony show have been clean... 2 big complaints right off the go were from customers complaining of having to pay more for my delivery because the sales guy told them all included... but they needed a crane...

You are better buying a mid grade spa from a good dealer than you are buying a hi-end spa from a bad dealer... Our area is full of Hot Springs Customers that hate their Hot Springs and the company because the dealer sucked and is now gone... And all their heater relay boards have failed once or twice and all their Spa side controllers have failed. If there was a good dealer in the area and dealt with it fast and clean they would be over the moon. Hot springs customers in a area with a good dealer love their spas... Same with my local Arctic dealer... always gets slagged off because of the poor service...

BUY THE DEALER NOT THE SPA

I bet there are great master spas dealers out there with scads of happy customers.

Find someone who has experience who knows what they are talking about, and has references, and you trust...

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Of the links provided to the "real master" spa owners, the first is highly suspect... totally reads like a spa guy, too much of the right language and hyping two spas while he disses a third??? AND THE LAST GUY DOES NOT EVEN OWN ONE!!!

Just because they post as an owner does not mean they are... And yes I know there are a few real ones but sometimes I really think we are all just sitting here talking to each other :lol: The other ones complain about the show, and the sales guys... not the spa...

Again the big part and the common thread we always see is the dealer makes the difference....

So far the spas here that were sold through the traveling pony show have been clean... 2 big complaints right off the go were from customers complaining of having to pay more for my delivery because the sales guy told them all included... but they needed a crane...

You are better buying a mid grade spa from a good dealer than you are buying a hi-end spa from a bad dealer... Our area is full of Hot Springs Customers that hate their Hot Springs and the company because the dealer sucked and is now gone... And all their heater relay boards have failed once or twice and all their Spa side controllers have failed. If there was a good dealer in the area and dealt with it fast and clean they would be over the moon. Hot springs customers in a area with a good dealer love their spas... Same with my local Arctic dealer... always gets slagged off because of the poor service...

BUY THE DEALER NOT THE SPA

I bet there are great master spas dealers out there with scads of happy customers.

Find someone who has experience who knows what they are talking about, and has references, and you trust...

Spa god, just curious, but what part of the world or country do you sell/live in. Can you tell us what brands you currently sell. Some of us are just curious. You don't have to share, but just curious! :)

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Again the big part and the common thread we always see is the dealer makes the difference....

BUY THE DEALER NOT THE SPA

Yours is the same advice we've been touting here for years but I'd take it one step further, don't settle on either end. Look for a dealer who you know/think will be there for you after the sale, that has experience in the industry, knows how to service their product and just plain seems to care AND find such a dealer who carries a high quality product. I agree that a great dealer carrying a good product is better than a bad dealer carrying a great product but

I want both, a great dealer carrying a great product.

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BUY THE DEALER NOT THE SPA

I bet there are great master spas dealers out there with scads of happy customers.

Find someone who has experience who knows what they are talking about, and has references, and you trust...

So you agree, don't buy from the traveling "Expo" nor from tent sales?

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Again the big part and the common thread we always see is the dealer makes the difference....

You are better buying a mid grade spa from a good dealer than you are buying a hi-end spa from a bad dealer... Our area is full of Hot Springs Customers that hate their Hot Springs and the company because the dealer sucked and is now gone... And all their heater relay boards have failed once or twice and all their Spa side controllers have failed. If there was a good dealer in the area and dealt with it fast and clean they would be over the moon. Hot springs customers in a area with a good dealer love their spas... Same with my local Arctic dealer... always gets slagged off because of the poor service...

BUY THE DEALER NOT THE SPA

I bet there are great master spas dealers out there with scads of happy customers.

Find someone who has experience who knows what they are talking about, and has references, and you trust...

It's always been my practice when buying anything that I buy into the person selling to product more so than the product they happen to be selling. This is exactly the same thing I did when building my swimming pool, at the time there were really classy look outfits with wonderful looking showrooms and slick sales staff but in the end I bought from a shabby looking workshop outfit because they had been in the business for 30 years and did all the commercial pool in the area. Well the same happened when I purchased the spa, the dealer was down to earth and been in the business for 15 year or so.

As I say, all brand products will from time to time have the odd issues but it's how the dealer deals with the situation that determines how you rate the product. Even a product that has had multiple issues can still be viewed as good if those issues are dealt with quickly and without fuss.

Yours is the same advice we've been touting here for years but I'd take it one step further, don't settle on either end. Look for a dealer who you know/think will be there for you after the sale, that has experience in the industry, knows how to service their product and just plain seems to care AND find such a dealer who carries a high quality product. I agree that a great dealer carrying a good product is better than a bad dealer carrying a great product but

I want both, a great dealer carrying a great product.

I may be wrong but all the brands on that list are very good products, some may well be better than others but the differences are slight at best.

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Yours is the same advice we've been touting here for years but I'd take it one step further, don't settle on either end. Look for a dealer who you know/think will be there for you after the sale, that has experience in the industry, knows how to service their product and just plain seems to care AND find such a dealer who carries a high quality product. I agree that a great dealer carrying a good product is better than a bad dealer carrying a great product but

I want both, a great dealer carrying a great product.

I may be wrong but all the brands on that list are very good products, some may well be better than others but the differences are slight at best.

I'd differ with you on that assessment. I'm not one to try to annoint any single one as "best"; certainly there are multiple top quality brands but there no way I'd say they're all equal or all in the same "very good" category (my opinion of course).

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I'd differ with you on that assessment. I'm not one to try to annoint any single one as "best"; certainly there are multiple top quality brands but there no way I'd say they're all equal or all in the same "very good" category (my opinion of course).

Can you elaborate as to which brands you feel are best/better and why and can you elaborate why the others aren't as good, of course I am referring to the above top ten list and not brands not included.

Thanks in advance.

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4. Jacuzzi/ Sundance.......... 800

2. Hot Springs / Caldera...... 700

10. Master Spas................ 300

10. Cal Spas................... 350

9. Dynasty.................... 200

12. Thermo Spas................ ?

5. Arctic Spas................ 250

8. Hydropool.................. 220

7. Coast Spas................. 175

6. Beachcomber............... 150

3. Marquis....................?

1. Dimension One .............?

I modified it slightly based on my experience and preference. Which means nothing to no one except me and the folks I give advice to.

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  • 2 months later...

PoolSpaGuy it's real simple. When you sell as many spas as Master, your competition doesn't like you very much. They only get hammered on forums full of spa salesmen. Otherwise, Master wins every award that is available in the spa industry. The bs you hear on this forum isn't the reality of the situation. Every Master dealer in the country has a BBB rating of a B+ or better. Most customers are smart enough to see beyond the smear campaign, fortunately.

As for number of units sold, I would be shocked if they weren't towards the top of the list.

And please tell me which city you are from where everyone pays full retail. I will open a store there immediately! :rolleyes:

Kreg,

Why can't I find any BBB rating from the man I bought my Master Spa from? Does Master require that their dealers be BBB acredited? Thanks for any info.

Michele

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PoolSpaGuy it's real simple. When you sell as many spas as Master, your competition doesn't like you very much. They only get hammered on forums full of spa salesmen. Otherwise, Master wins every award that is available in the spa industry. The bs you hear on this forum isn't the reality of the situation. Every Master dealer in the country has a BBB rating of a B+ or better. Most customers are smart enough to see beyond the smear campaign, fortunately.

As for number of units sold, I would be shocked if they weren't towards the top of the list.

And please tell me which city you are from where everyone pays full retail. I will open a store there immediately! :rolleyes:

Kreg,

Why can't I find any BBB rating from the man I bought my Master Spa from? Does Master require that their dealers be BBB acredited? Thanks for any info.

Michele

Michel

I don't think is a requirement. Since joining the BBB costs money, I am not sure if they legally require it of dealers. They do encourage it though.

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  • 2 years later...

Went to a 2010 Spa show in Wilmington Delaware and purchased a Master Spa (Twilight 8.3) through West Chester Spas, Pa (No longer in business). Spa was delivered in May, 2010. I have to say I love the Spa, but have had yearly issues from day one! From the start, the circulation pump was bad. Spa was under warranty and was repaired, Great! Spring 2011- the heater went bad. Under warranty, Great! Spring 2012- Spa kept shutting down. After several days and several calls with West Chester Spa, it turned out one of the NEW filters was bad and not flowing properly. They replaced filters, Great! Spring of 2013- Noticed the water level kept dropping. One of the LED lights, which hadn't worked properly for about two years (but didn't really bother us) was cracked and leaking. Also the Spa kept shutting down. Why? Bad Heater!
One Month out of warranty! Not Covered! Customer Service tells me it's due to Bad Water Chemistry. Really!!! I am meticulous when it comes to any maintenance in my home. I have followed their suggested cleaning and filter & water changes. We spent $9000.00 on a Spa that needs a new heater every two years?
Randy
Media, Pa

I have since learned that other Master Spa owners are also having failed heaters. Hmmmmm!

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  • 1 month later...

I think this is because there are very, very few Master Spas that have been sold. Fewer spas extant = less problems noted.

Not that I would even know where to look, but I would like to see how many Masters are sold as compared to other brands across the country for a year. You know, a list or something by manufacturer. I think that you would be wrong in your statement.........now, if you told me that less Master Spa "owners" post their problems of their spas here after reading the posts for fear of being told how they wasted their money on a spa and company who doesn't care about them after the sale.........I may have believed you....but probably not smile.gif

And for the record, I am a Master Auto Tech not a spa salesman....and I'm a pretty good judge of workmanship of products that have anything to do with mechanics.

disclaimer: I am not a Rocket Scientist and Spa's "aint" no space shuttle wink.gif

huskytub

if your a master Tech then can you tell me why my master spa is set at 97 and an hour later its up to 100 or more. this is during the day and at night when the temp its down to 50-60. they replaced the pumps the mother board and it still does this. I paid 10,000. for a hot tub I cant be in more than hour. why does this do this. and the heater isn't on. also we had the hot tub almost two months.

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