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Master Spas


tony123

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I ran into a sleezebag car salesman today at the dealership down the road. I'm gonna call Ford on Monday and blame it on them. Shouldn't they know every salesman at every dealership everywhere?

If corporate Ford ran a traveling scam show like Master does with their salespeople representing them poorly and giving them a black eye I'm confident Ford would see the big picture and nip it in the bud as Barney Fife would say.

But alas Master is no Ford!

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As of 2009....Based on Estimated Units

1. Jacuzzi/ Sundance

2. Hot Springs / Caldera

3. Master Spas

4. Cal Spas

5. Dynasty

6. Thermo Spas

7. Arctic Spas

8. Hydropool

9. Coast Spas

10. Beachcomber

That seems about right to me. And while I think the average Master dealer outsells Jacuzzi, Sundance, Hot Spring, and Caldera in their respective markets, these companies probably have a lot more dealers total.

Take the spa challenge and swim spa challenge was done by an independent company. Master had no control of the results. When I spoke of awards, I was talking SpaSearch Certification, BBB Torch Award, earnst and young, and the Spa industry's own Inspire Award.

I ran into a sleezebag car salesman today at the dealership down the road. I'm gonna call Ford on Monday and blame it on them. Shouldn't they know every salesman at every dealership everywhere?

Not to kick a dead horse, but most definitely research the dealer you buy from. There are subpar dealers of every brand.

Off topic, but this Japan thing is unbelievable! Huge earthquake, tsunami, and now possible nuclear meltdown? God help them.

Well, I would have to disagree with that. That is certainly not even close to the case in our area. I was told that our local Master dealer sold 18 spas last year total. Not even close here.

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Take the spa challenge and swim spa challenge was done by an independent company. Master had no control of the results.

Baaaa-loney!

This is direct from CMC Media Group that produced the video (emphasis added by me):

If you are considering producing a video for marketing, fundraising, training, or internal communications, you have come to the right place. Whether you're a large company or a non-profit on a budget, we will work with you to make the most effective production possible. Our planning guide will walk you through the process, step-by-step, to make sure you reach your target audience in a compelling manner. We understand deadlines - we will work with your agency or media distribution outlet to get your project out the door and onto the airwaves.

Typically clients retain the CMC Media Group to research, create and produce video-based communications for advertising, marketing, fundraising, employee recruiting, training and motivation, investor, community, government and public relations.

In the video:

1:33 mark- Kim Jacobson says "Take the Spa Challenge is all about changing perceptions. Watch as opinions are altered as participants learn about and test these hot tubs." Who is teaching them and altering their opinions?

1:42 mark- Kim Jacobson says "The land? comparison gives participants a chance to learn about maintenance, warranty, and ownership costs of each hot tub. They'll be rating them in areas such as filter quality, duration of warranty, and monthly electrical expenditures." What were the parameters for these categories and who presented this information to the participants?

2:12 mark- Participant says "...I like how it was designed specifically for women.." What does this mean and who told them this?

3:14 mark- Who are the people standing beside the spas while the participants soak? What are they saying to them? Are they Master Spa employees? Are they part of CMC Media Group and why are they invalidating the test results by offering input to the participants? How well versed are the CMC Media Group agents in the technology of hot tub design and operation?

3:55 mark- Participant says "...and this one has Microban. The other one didn't have Microban." Who informed the participant of the advantages or disadvantages of Microban?

8:19 mark- Participant says "..and it's woman friendly." What does this mean? Does one of the spas have a certain type of 'woman friendly' jet configuration?

This video is nothing but bought and paid for propaganda. Nothing wrong with that, but it should in no way be presented as a blind or unbiased contest. It has all the underpinnings of being in the same vein as the hottubbroker.com propaganda website wherein Master Spa is ranked #1 or #2 (and sometimes even #1, #2, AND #3) in virtually every category.

I'm sure that I could hire CMC Media Group to produce a video for me showing that SeaMonkey Hot Tubs outperform every other spa in every category if and when I decide to do so.

Kreg, you're a smart guy that has a lot to offer to the board and your customers...don't peddle this crap to the folks here. You're better than that.

Terminator

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Term

Were do i get one of those Sea Monkey spas, i gotta have it,,, man i heard they were the best spa on the market by That same media group....They have a model that looks like a tail and has a seat called the whip..... :lol:

Hey i think your right, i watched that video ,,, Independent audit( i don't think so...) they had to be coached, i mean come on this has Microban ....most spa buyers do not even hear that unless a dealer knows the other does not and he makes a spin on it... its just like their swim spa challenge,,, if you watch the video they have a Master Banner hanging near the front.....

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Yup, like I said, independent company. And from what I have heard, a few of the participants thought that Jacuzzi was running the comparison! I dont expect to convince you Termie, just like you shouldnt expect to convince me that your energy "guarantee" isn't the biggest load of BS in the industry.

WaterBoy what area are you from?

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Yup, like I said, independent company. And from what I have heard, a few of the participants thought that Jacuzzi was running the comparison! I dont expect to convince you Termie, just like you shouldnt expect to convince me that your energy "guarantee" isn't the biggest load of BS in the industry.

What energy guarantee? I was not aware that Hot Spring had one....I know that our company (East Texas Spa) doesn't.

Termie

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Yup, like I said, independent company. And from what I have heard, a few of the participants thought that Jacuzzi was running the comparison! I dont expect to convince you Termie, just like you shouldnt expect to convince me that your energy "guarantee" isn't the biggest load of BS in the industry.

WaterBoy what area are you from?

Can you please send me a link of this "challenge" video? I couldn't find the one that East TX Spa mentions quotes from. I did find the "Take the Swim Spa Challenge" and my 7 year old daughter could figure out that it was an advertisement for Master Spas.

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Can you please send me a link of this "challenge" video? I couldn't find the one that East TX Spa mentions quotes from. I did find the "Take the Swim Spa Challenge" and my 7 year old daughter could figure out that it was an advertisement for Master Spas.

Sounds like your 7 yr old is just another person being anti-Master due to having to try to sell agianst them.

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Nobody is denying that these are advertisements! They took a chance and had no clue what the results were gonna be. When the results came back, it was money well spent. Of course they are going to use the information in an advertisement...Its called ADVERTISING!!!!!

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Nobody is denying that these are advertisements! They took a chance and had no clue what the results were gonna be. When the results came back, it was money well spent. Of course they are going to use the information in an advertisement...Its called ADVERTISING!!!!!

OK, I think I understand now, and I'm going to have to cast my vote as this whole production and the corresponding results seeming "less than official."

Is there any video of the whole event or just the paid for propagandized version?

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Nobody is denying that these are advertisements! They took a chance and had no clue what the results were gonna be. When the results came back, it was money well spent. Of course they are going to use the information in an advertisement...Its called ADVERTISING!!!!!

This is coming from the same company that advertises a traveling scam show by telling people there will be "multiple manufacturers" when they are the only ones there.

You can't believe anything corproate Master says in general let alone the BS in their new infoscamercial.

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I don't blame you guys for trying to discredit the Challenge. What other choice do you have, really? You are trying to sell whatever brand you carry, so of course you're gonna put a negative spin on it. Unreal One, you wont even tell anyone who you are, so you have no credibility with me. Maybe Master dumped you as a dealer once?

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You are all heaping piles on Master for doing these road shows and the truth is it is a brilliant marketing strategy... they are moving between 30-100 spas in 3 days at these events, the truth is the spas are ok, and frankly the customers know when they buy at these events that there is no local dealer support... (unless they are living under a rock)

There have been "tent sales" and "truckload sales" going on for years from every single brand out there,These guys roll into town with a truckload and do a 2 week sale and no one slags off those lines... only because the slaes dont impact them to hard, they do maybe 10-20 units in two weeks,

The only reason you guys are pissed is the same reason I am pissed... they took a hundred grand out of my sales last year...

All they have done is refined the "truckload sale" to a new level... pretty slick really...

The only thing I warn people about is the price... and the backup... there are very few "great deals" at these events... the prices are nothing you could not get from your local dealer in most cases, people just get caught up in the hype, and nailed by a professional closer...

To slag off the line is petty, you are all just bent out of shape because you got yer arse kicked...

Don't get mad... get even...

When they come back to town here we will set up 20 spas, and tents and free BBQ on the main route to their event and put up signs saying "spa expo new location" and "spa expo here" and a big sign saying "Master spas" I will buy 4 master spas from a dealer out of the area i know and mark them down to near cost...:-) we will do a pile of deals at cost if we have to and make the event not profitable for them, I dont even care if I turn a profit I just will make sure the event is not profitable for them, they lay out $40k+ on these events, so that should be easy... doubt they will be back if they loose their shirts or make no money:-)

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I'm not angry at anyone or anything. I don't sell anything and I really couldn't care less if Master sells 2 million tubs this year. I just find the video of the challenge hilarious.

Kreg, how can you expect anyone to believe that the "research" conducted by a high priced advertising firm to be anything close to unbiased? Can you just answer this simple question for me instead of saying people are trying to discredit the results...is there any other information on this challenge other than the 9 minute video that clearly states all of the information from the challenge and is unedited? Are the only results the 9 minute video that Master uses in it's marketing? If not, then there is really no need to discredit the challenge because it has no credit to begin with. You can't conduct a true "research project" and just show results.

From wikipedia:

Scientific inquiry is generally intended to be as objective as possible, to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established.

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As of 2009....Based on Estimated Units

1. Jacuzzi/ Sundance

2. Hot Springs / Caldera

3. Master Spas

4. Cal Spas

5. Dynasty

6. Thermo Spas

7. Arctic Spas

8. Hydropool

9. Coast Spas

10. Beachcomber

Based on who's estimates? What happens if you break out Jacuzzi/Sundance and Hot Spring/Caldera?

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As of 2009....Based on Estimated Units

1. Jacuzzi/ Sundance

2. Hot Springs / Caldera

3. Master Spas

4. Cal Spas

5. Dynasty

6. Thermo Spas

7. Arctic Spas

8. Hydropool

9. Coast Spas

10. Beachcomber

Based on who's estimates? What happens if you break out Jacuzzi/Sundance and Hot Spring/Caldera?

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Estimates where based on a paid report done by a firm for a management buyout that I was able to get a hold of. Jacuzzi/Sundance and Hot Spring/Caldera where grouped as one I believe because they are manufactured by the same company.

This was also based on number of dealers....

1. Jacuzzi/ Sundance.......... 800

2. Hot Springs / Caldera...... 700

3. Master Spas................ 300

4. Cal Spas................... 350

5. Dynasty.................... 200

6. Thermo Spas................ ?

7. Arctic Spas................ 250

8. Hydropool.................. 220

9. Coast Spas................. 175

10. Beachcomber............... 150

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I don't blame you guys for trying to discredit the Challenge. What other choice do you have, really? You are trying to sell whatever brand you carry, so of course you're gonna put a negative spin on it. Unreal One, you wont even tell anyone who you are, so you have no credibility with me. Maybe Master dumped you as a dealer once?

That "Spa Challenge" is about as legit as the Consumer's Digest "Awards".

They're paid for advertising meant to deceive people into thinking they're independent. I'm not saying Master is alone in this type thing, its just that you're trying to sell it as some legitimate accomplishment and thats ridiculous Master Spin not unlike that previous website scam (hottubbroker.com) we exposed as a Master front.

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No idea where one might get industry stats, but a fair WAG can be obtained by observing the used market, via Craigslist. Based on used market, I think Master is maybe 1 in 75 of all spas sold. Very rough guess based on my own observations, it could easily be 1 in 100 or higher. If somebody has some better data, post it.

See, to me using the "used for sale" market as an indication, I don't see that as not many master Spa's out there......I see it as not many Master Spa owners who are selling their hot tubs because they are happy with them and are having no problems with them making them put them up for sale ;)

It's all interpretation I guess

See, I was wondering if somebody would make this argument. Consider: there is a car called a Camry. Highly rated, every owner I've talked to loves them. And yet, there is a very active market for these cars used. Because, people trade up, trade down, get divorced and sell, go bankrupt, etc. It works the same way for spas.

As for that list claiming Master to be #3 in sales, I'm calling utter and total nonsense on that. If that were even remotely true, these spas would be all over the used market. From what I have seen, the rare used Master spa is a tough sell due to the mistaken seller perception that they are worth more than what the market will pay.

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Hi I have checked out 4 spa brands Sundance limelight Hotspot from hot springs and master spas what do you think about the qualty of master spas? I have a local dealer who quoted $8000 for a t2 twighlight series with the stonelook on the side cover lift stairs and chemical package is that a ghood price.

I have the twilight 8.2 and absolutely love it. Only at a month of ownership so can't give you too much info. Never tried the other brands so also can't compare too well. For comparison purposes...I spent $6250 (pre-tax) at one of those weekend shows. I might have gotten them down a little further on price...but don't think too much.

Hope this helps

Be careful warp1, these folks around this here forum will eat you alive telling you how bad a decision you made buying a Master Spa from there traveling show. My wife and I went to one of their show's. We purchased a Down East Portsmouth model spa (master) and simply love it. We have had it running and hot going on 5 years now and have had only one problem......the ozonator (sp?) had to be replaced after 2 years.....free of charge too, that included parts AND labor with no extra warranty plan. Relax and enjoy your Master Spa and don't let the Spa "dealers" on this forum scare you. Besides, look at all the "HELP I got a problem" posts on this forum and read the names of the spa's involved.........very very few Master Spa's.......

As for the OP's question on price? Look, search and call dealers for price quotes and see what you come up with.

I'm not a dealer and not affiliated with the Spa industry in any way other than being a "hot tub enthusiast" for several years and owned a variety of tubs.

The problem with the "Master Traveling show" is that it's deliberatly deceiving. It is not advertised as a "Master Spa" show, but a rather a "Hot tub Expo" that will feature with many different brands and vendors competing for you business. It’s not. Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s a Master Spa ONLY event. Filled with high pressure Master Spa salesmen trying to sell you a tub under the illusion that you’re at some industry event.

If you call the number they provide, it's just a recording. The advertisement doesn't mention the manufacturer of the spas and leads you to believe that it's an exposition with many different vendors competing for your business. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Why would they do that? To suck you in, get you in as a captive audience and give you the hard sell. It's a sleazy sleazy sleazy practice.

Master also has a bad reputation for their side of the road tent sales. One member actually documented the horrible quality of the spa's they were selling with pictures, and also caught them in lies; They were telling customers that the local Hotsprings store would service thier spas, another outright lie.

The bottom line is Master spa's are mediocre in quality. I wouldn't use one in a cold weather environment, and I personaly refuse to do business with a company that employs such sleazy sales tactics.

Master has built a reputation of being the used car salesmen of the spa industry.

Caveat emptor.

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