Jandy Lxi Heater Won't Start!

[IPvFletch]

My Jandy LXi heater seems to not be working.

It looks like it normally does, even lets me choose between Pool or Spa. It says Remote TSTAT enabled, which I believe is for my Jandy remote.

I go to fire it up (booster pump is running already of course) and nothing happens.

After a minute or so, it says "Ign Fault". I never hear any noises, no blower sounds, not even for a second. I read through the manual and found the whole ignition process (something like pre-blower, check air pressure sensor to let blower keep going, 15 second purge, then igniter gets warmed up, then gas, lastly flame sensor lets it stay on or kills the gas).

I removed the front panel and I see the wiring and boards in there. One of the boards has a red light which flashes once. The sign next to it says it is an Ignition fault. Go figure!!

I'm at a loss on what to do next.

I took off the top grate and checked for debris. I see some leaves in there, but nothing crazy. I vacuumed it out and also put the shop-vac on blower to blow some more out. It's funny cuz the blower makes it sound like the heater is working, but alas it's just my shop-vac moving the same air in that chamber. *sigh*

I'm not sure what else to try. I might call Jandy, but am hoping I can get some more ideas here.

I found one thread on this but it isn't helping:

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26484

I have a voltmeter but no clue where to begin testing.

The heater worked fine last season right before winter. I didn't winterize it (didn't know I had to until I just read in the LXi manual today) but I never winterized it before and never had a problem. It's just now 3 years old.

Any ideas???

Thanks!

[PoolGuyNJ]

If the hot surface igniter is glowing, it isn't getting hot enough. Do you have an ohm meter?

If the igniter doesn't glow, check the safety circuits, i.e. the pressure switch, vacuum switch, and high limits (there are two though I believe you would get Hi-Limit fault,

Scott

[IPvFletch]

Stupid question: Doesn't the blower fire up and purge the system BEFORE the igniter is triggered? Therefore, if the blower isn't even coming on (1st step), the problem is with the blower, right?

Next stupid question: How do I see the ignitor? My manual says there is a window to look in with heating coils and an orange glow. I can't even find the window. Do I need to use a mirror on the bottom of the heater? What if there's a bunch of debris under the heater, could that be interfering with the blower?

Update: I blew a bunch of debris out from under the heater, not sure if that helps or not though. I also noticed right now the heater says "no flow" because my pump was off. This means my water pressure sensor is working because that goes away when the pump is on. That rules that out.

I keep reading the intake is on the bottom of the heater, but then there's this air pressure slider on the side which is adjustable. Which is it? When I look at the troubleshooting section it says to ensure nothing is beneath the heater. Will have to verify what I blew out cleaned out underneath good. But what if a critter crawled up in there and died? How would I know? I can't just pick up my heater cuz it's hooked up to my pipes.. Also, I keep reading there's a fan tubing, what is that, is that for like if I installed my LXi indoors?

[PoolGuyNJ]

I missed the blower not starting. Check the flow switch for continuity. Open with no flow, closed with. Failing that, check the fan for voltage. If voltage appears and the fan doesn't start, it's the motor.

Scott

[IPvFletch]

Update: Ok, so I checked the water pressure sensor. I got resistance when my booster pump came on and none when it was off, so it is working. Plus, my heater actually says "no flow" and then when I turn on the booster pump, it goes away.

So that rules that out.

Next step is the blower motor.

I was reading through this wiring diagram from the manual. Oh man, it's actually starting to make sense to me the more I look at it.

http://www.jandy-downloads.com/heaters_lxi_manual.pdf

I traced the wires from the "comp ign" switch to the ignitor board. On there is another Y/BK wire which goes to the air flow switch. I think this is the Honeywell 1.0" WC PF thing I found in there. The wires trace right so it must be. From Google, I was able to figure out that this is indeed an Air Pressure switch (made by Honeywell): http://www.northamericahvac.com/servlet/the-5245/Honeywell-Air-Pressure-Switch/Detail

This switch has air tubes plugged into the main fire box down below. So I know this is basically to sense air flow into the hot fire box. I'm guessing air must be pumped into the fire box or else the fire could not breathe, right? So this sensor must be to check if the blower is working? You think?

I could likely test continuity on it if I knew how it worked.

Next step is the blower itself. I figured out from the diagram this is actually 120vAC. This means I'm scared of it. I was scared of that whole board actually. Also, the 5 wires going to the blower are all thick wires in a molex type of plug. I couldn't even wedge my voltmeter wires in there if I wanted to. Plus, I still haven't gotten a good answer on which need to be hot, which are negative, etc.. So I'm not going to play with that one just yet. I do realize I could unplug it and check voltage from the board harness itself, yes, that would be a lot easier, but I'm still afraid of 120vAC right now and won't push my luck unless I have no other choice.

Not sure what else to check. I don't know how to further disassemble my heater to get to where the actual blower is mounted. I'd like to see it and/or see if there's any obstructions in there. I noticed a 2nd host from the Honeywell air pressure sensor switch that goes to some other box down below behind the fire box. I'm not sure if it is a second chamber or if it is an inlet port from the bottom of the heater, for air to come in. I can't really see "under" my heater because it is sitting right on the ground. I could have too much debris there, I don't know.. I will need to rig up some kind of coat hanger or something to pull out some of that debris under there. Ideally I'd like to jack up the heater an inch or two but I have all my water pipes plus my gas line connected, and it would be really hard to move it more than like 1cm w/out stressing a pipe...

Not sure what else to do here, other than turn to a local Jandy authorized serviceman and have him check it out..

Thanks!

Kevin

[IPvFletch]

Update, see above..

[Pool Clown]

Here, give this a shot...

Let me know if you do not have a LoNox, i have different flow chart for them.

[IPvFletch]

Thanks PoolClown!

I have an LXi, not an LX. Maybe mine is LoNox? It is Propane I know that much.

So based on this diagram and also my update above (please re-read) it is beginning to sound like my next step is:

- vAC voltmeter checking all over the place, or

- Call a trained Jandy professional

No other "low-hanging fruit" you guys can think of?

It would still be helpful to know/see where the blower itself is. It could be something silly like a stick or acorn is stuck in it's intake. I'd like to at least confirm that before risking my life with the 120vAC..

[Pool Clown]

Start with 2nd page, step 4

[Pellis87]

1

[Bgc2004]

I am having the exact same problem ipvfletch. What was the final outcome. Did you have to have someone from Jandy come out.

[Bugman1400]

If you are not getting the exhaust motor to blow then check it.......it could be seized. I usually check these by disconnecting all power to the unit and then use my screwdriver to see if I can manually turn the fan blades. If it won't turn, the bearings are seized....and the motor will need to be replaced and is something you can do yourself. If the motor and fan turn freely then usually the ignition module that contains the relay is bad and will need to be replaced. This is also something you can do yourself if you transfer the wires one by one or label them. If you replace the ignition module you will need to make sure you get the exact replacement. There are many ignition modules used in several industries that range from pools to HVAC to industrial dryers.......they all look the same! Make sure you match the model#, the voltages, and the time durations!

[sking43]

Greetings to all, I have a brand-spanking-new Jandy Zodiac LXi 400,000 BTU/HR heater that has never worked. Pool installation company says "gas meter too small" but I have my doubts as there are 3 X 100,000 BTU/Hr furnaces in the house plus a 6 burner gas range and they have all been "on" in winter months. I am an engineer by training so you can consider me to be "handy". Here is what I know so far:

- correct 240VAC power to the unit.

- water switch operates correctly (closes when there is water flow, open when no flow - yes, I have an ohm meter and know how to use it.....)

- Gas line pressure 7.5 inches water column into the heater and at inlet to gas valve

- Manifold pressure 2.5 inches when gas valve opens and heater attempts to light (this is the required pressure according to the sticker on the air plenum cover)

- induces draft fan (blower works fine, pressure in the burner throat is the required 1.0 inches of water column)

- ignitor glows red hot when control calls for it to attempt to light. No visible evidence of damage on ignitor surface (some high temperature discoloring but no white corrosion or evidence of a crack)

- start sequence - blower comes on (seems to have one speed, I read in earlier posts where perhaps some other models have a blower with more than 1 speed); about 30 seconds later you can hear the gas valve solenoid open (and confirmed by manometer using the pressure tap on the burner side of the valve), valve stays open for about 6 or 7 seconds, the flame never lights; then unit cycles 3 times until it kicks out with the ignition alarm code on the LCD. When the gas valve opens, you can smell the methyl mercaptan so I know there is gas getting in to the combustion chamber. But no flame, not never (so far).

I looked inside the burner tubes and did not see any evidence of spider webs or insects. The only thing I have not done after reading some posts here, is to inspect the flame sensor wiring.

When I checked the ignitor I was a little surprised to find the hex nuts finger tight - it took just a turn of my fingers to get them off, so the ignitor did not seem to be very snug on its mount. Anyway after I put it back in after checking it, I did tighten the nuts carefully (not so tight as to crack the ignitor base) and still the until did not fire.

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated as I wait for the gas company to install a new meter in about 3 weeks..... which I do not really expect to solve the problem.

[Pool Clown]

Surprisingly, fanned heaters need to have the air gas mix just right, or they won't light. That includes making sure you were sold the right heater (Gas? or Propane?). That usually happens to a service tech at least once.

If it is new, have Jandy Factory come out and look at it. It may just have had a defect from the factory, it happens. Sounds like the place that installed isn't a warranty station. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Good Luck.

[PoolGuyNJ]

I would first suspect the orifices at the igniter are clogged.

Scott

[Pool Clown]

Never had a new heater with clogged jets, but i guess anything is possible while the heater is waiting in distribution.

[Bugman1400]

I had the exact same problem a few years ago when I installed my LAARS 400 without a local regulator. I was depending on the main regulator at the meter. It seems the gas valve has a pressure sensitive diaphragm in it that can detect gas pressures that are too high/too low and it will not allow the gas to flow. Once I installed a local regulator, it worked the first time. Just because you smell gas, doesn't mean you are getting adequate flow. The gas may flow initially but, then the gas valve may stop the flow because the pressure is too high/too low. Then the ignitor will time out after 5 sec if the flame sensor does not sense ignition.

Another trick I tried in my dryer repair days was to blow hard on the burner after you hear the gas valve click. You could also try using a steel or brass brush to clean the burners.

[C3idotnet]

I had the exact same problem a few years ago when I installed my LAARS 400 without a local regulator. I was depending on the main regulator at the meter. It seems the gas valve has a pressure sensitive diaphragm in it that can detect gas pressures that are too high/too low and it will not allow the gas to flow. Once I installed a local regulator, it worked the first time. Just because you smell gas, doesn't mean you are getting adequate flow. The gas may flow initially but, then the gas valve may stop the flow because the pressure is too high/too low. Then the ignitor will time out after 5 sec if the flame sensor does not sense ignition.

Another trick I tried in my dryer repair days was to blow hard on the burner after you hear the gas valve click. You could also try using a steel or brass brush to clean the burners.

[C3idotnet]

Amazing, we also had the ignition issue, haven't used the lxi400 for 2 seasons. NOW while we were vacuuming pool I hear 2 big noises like something exploding. I see the heater smoking (not on though), and I quickly shut off breakers for entire system involving pool. Since they put the heater and pool filter main on same circuit I can't run the entire thing now. I'm trying to find the warranty, it's 4 years old in July 2013 I think. I did find manual via google ( lxi 400 jandy heater).

Just wanted to pass on about this piece of crap. I bet we didn't use this 10 times!!!!!!!

You guys seem very articulate, I like that. Thx mike...

[pooljb]

sounds to me like a fuseable link has failed in the exaust.

[THORNE]

I had a similar problem on my LXi, but finally worked mine down to the air pressure switch.   The switch is working fine, but the tube that goes around to the side of the unit was off.  Apparently the bracket that holds it rusted and broke in half.  I am now not certain where it actually connected or how to get a replacement part for it.  It is a small rectangular flange with a nipple in the center for the hose.  Any ideas where is goes of the part number?

[WASSAUTO]

I ALSO HAVE A LXI 400 2 YEARS OLD,  WORKED ONE DAY WHEN FIRST HOOKED UP,  SERVICE TECHS SAID METER TOO SMALL, GAS CO. INSTALLED LARGER METER, NO CHANGE. UNIT PRE- PURGES 15 SEC, INGNITOR GLOWS 40 SEC, GAS VALVE OPENS, BURNER LIGHTS FOR 4 OR 5 SECONDS THEN IGNITION CONTROL CUTS POWER- NOT SENSING FLAME. TRIED REPLACING FLAME SENSE ROD, SAME THING. VOLTAGE GOOD AT EVERY TERMINAL AND SWITCH. TESTED FOR SUFFICIENT GAS 7.5 SUPPLY 2.5 MANIFOLD. DISCONNECTED BROWN POWER WIRE AT GAS VALVE, USED JUMPER  WIRE TO SEND 24VAC TO GAS VALVE, BURNER IGNITES AND STAYS LIT WITH PERFECT SHORT LIGHT BLUE FLAMES UNTIL IGNITION CONTROL SHUTS DOWN FAN BECAUSE OF NO FLAME RECTIFICATION, 40 YRS EXP AS AUTOMOTIVE TECHNICIAN AND THIS REMINDS ME OF A PERSONS CAR YOU WISHED WAS AT SOMEONE ELSES SHOP. NEXT IM GOING TO THROW AN IGNITION CONTROL MODULE AT IT,  HAVE IT IN A COUPLE DAYS. WISH I COULD FIND A COMPETENT SERVICE CO. THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING SO I COULD WORK ON CARS INSTEAD OF MY POOL HEATER. ILL LET YOU KNOW HOW I MAKE OUT.

[Jason D]

my 16 year old lt just started displaying the AGS error.  blower comes on, ignitor glows then blower goes off and ignitor turns off.  cycles through this 3 times them displays the ags error.  cant hear the gas valve open and it doesnt ignite.  ive replaced the presssure switch, blower pressure switch, ignition control unit, gas valve and flame sensor.   cleaned out gas jets.   anything may be missing?