Arctic Cub Signature Vs Sundance 680 Hartford

[bdubya200]

New to the forum, but thanks to everyone who posts here. Its helpful, no matter if youown or not , brand X vs Brand Y, etc. Lots of Info.

Wanting to buy a hot tub ( first time ever) for our cabin. 8k feet in elevation and hellacold in the winter ( -20 isnt uncommon). Been researching since last spring, so I have a good idea as to what I want. Energy efficiency is key here. I wont get into Heat Lock vs Full foam, as I know that both methods, when done correctly, can be very good at insulating.

Can anyone help me try and do an apples to apples comparison on the Arctic Cub vs the Sundance Hartford? Correct me if Im wrong, but the 680 line is the more 'entry level' line of Sundance, right? Where do they 'skimp' per se?

I have gotten very comparable quotes on each tub price wise. Not to be rude, but 7k on the Arctic and $6.8k on the Sundance ( gives you a 'relative value' data point to consider. Both dealers are very nice and not pushy, at all. All of the 'extras' ( even though most seem like 'should be includeds'...but anyway) are the same. Covers, lifters, steps, chemicals, delivery, etc...so thats a wash for me. The Sundance is offering the ozonator system, but thats , for me, a whistle that I dont necessarily want/need. No other bells and whistles lights, sound, etc).

The key difference, unless someone can definitvely state their opinion on the insulation difference in the 2( which would be awesome).... and not to fall into the 'jet count race' trap...is the 28 jets run on 2 4 hp pumps for Arctic vs 42 run on 2 2.5 hp pumps on the Sundance.

I plan on wet testing both, as that will help settle the jet count issue, but I am hoping someone ghere, either an owenr of Either model, or someone with more information, can weigh in on personal aopinions of the Models being compared, with special emphasis on the Sundance 680 line.

Again, both dealers are very nice, informative, and passionate about their product...which is great to see. Id never want to deal with someone who was just lukewarm ont heir own product. It's just that its nice to get other opinions, especially those that arent conflicted because they are hoping to make a sale.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can weigh in. Have an awesome day!

[Water Boy]

New to the forum, but thanks to everyone who posts here. Its helpful, no matter if youown or not , brand X vs Brand Y, etc. Lots of Info.

Wanting to buy a hot tub ( first time ever) for our cabin. 8k feet in elevation and hellacold in the winter ( -20 isnt uncommon). Been researching since last spring, so I have a good idea as to what I want. Energy efficiency is key here. I wont get into Heat Lock vs Full foam, as I know that both methods, when done correctly, can be very good at insulating.

Can anyone help me try and do an apples to apples comparison on the Arctic Cub vs the Sundance Hartford? Correct me if Im wrong, but the 680 line is the more 'entry level' line of Sundance, right? Where do they 'skimp' per se?

I have gotten very comparable quotes on each tub price wise. Not to be rude, but 7k on the Arctic and $6.8k on the Sundance ( gives you a 'relative value' data point to consider. Both dealers are very nice and not pushy, at all. All of the 'extras' ( even though most seem like 'should be includeds'...but anyway) are the same. Covers, lifters, steps, chemicals, delivery, etc...so thats a wash for me. The Sundance is offering the ozonator system, but thats , for me, a whistle that I dont necessarily want/need. No other bells and whistles lights, sound, etc).

The key difference, unless someone can definitvely state their opinion on the insulation difference in the 2( which would be awesome).... and not to fall into the 'jet count race' trap...is the 28 jets run on 2 4 hp pumps for Arctic vs 42 run on 2 2.5 hp pumps on the Sundance.

I plan on wet testing both, as that will help settle the jet count issue, but I am hoping someone ghere, either an owenr of Either model, or someone with more information, can weigh in on personal aopinions of the Models being compared, with special emphasis on the Sundance 680 line.

Again, both dealers are very nice, informative, and passionate about their product...which is great to see. Id never want to deal with someone who was just lukewarm ont heir own product. It's just that its nice to get other opinions, especially those that arent conflicted because they are hoping to make a sale.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can weigh in. Have an awesome day!

As you already know, two very good brands that you are looking at. Good to see that you are wet testing. One thing I notice right off the bat is that the Sundance 680 line comes with a three year warranty, where as the Arctic Cub has a five year warranty. With both spas being very close in price, the extra warranty is well worth it. Also, that is a steal on the price you were quoted on Arctic Cub.

[bdubya200]

Yeah...forgot to mention the difference in warranty, as well as the shell warranty ( 7 years vs lifetime for Arctic???? stark difference that i biffed on mentioning).

Thank you for your confirmation on the Arctic quote. I thought so as well, and honestly...I asked for a sweetner on the deal from the dealer, and he politely declined while sticking to his guns on his product's highlights ( he borderline bristled a little bit at the comparison to the Hartford, but again... i like to see a little bit of passion from a salesman)...so I may have in fact hit his floor...which is totally fine. Everybody has to make money. You just never know unless you ask.

Oh, the wet test on the Sundance would be the Chelsee, not the Hartford. Was told " Same seating arrangement, just a step up." Will have to make sure they dont have any lights on or music going fromt he tub as to not skew the results. I really just want to see how the seats 'fit' and jets 'feel'.

Keep it coming everybody!

[Water Boy]

Yeah...forgot to mention the difference in warranty, as well as the shell warranty ( 7 years vs lifetime for Arctic???? stark difference that i biffed on mentioning).

Thank you for your confirmation on the Arctic quote. I thought so as well, and honestly...I asked for a sweetner on the deal from the dealer, and he politely declined while sticking to his guns on his product's highlights ( he borderline bristled a little bit at the comparison to the Hartford, but again... i like to see a little bit of passion from a salesman)...so I may have in fact hit his floor...which is totally fine. Everybody has to make money. You just never know unless you ask.

Oh, the wet test on the Sundance would be the Chelsee, not the Hartford. Was told " Same seating arrangement, just a step up." Will have to make sure they dont have any lights on or music going fromt he tub as to not skew the results. I really just want to see how the seats 'fit' and jets 'feel'.

Keep it coming everybody!

Those spas are similar, but have lots of differences too. The jetting configuration is very different between the two. I would tell the dealer that you want to wet test the one you are looking at. If they want your business bad enough, they will make it happen. Forgot to mention one other thing, the Arctic Cub jets all spin and rotate which really do feel quite nice. The Sundance model has a few spinning jets, but the majority of them are straight shooting bullet jets. Some say those can come itchy or irritating after a few minutes, and dont feel as good as the spinning jets. I think you will notice this difference when wet testing. Also, be sure to try out the diverter valves on the spas to increase and decrease the power, play with the jets turning them on and off, and enjoy yourself. The wet test will probably give you your answer.

[bdubya200]

You said the same thing as the Arctic Dealer. Thank you for your input.

Would you consider the 2 tubs an 'apples to apples' comparison in terms of construction/quality?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Yeah...forgot to mention the difference in warranty, as well as the shell warranty ( 7 years vs lifetime for Arctic???? stark difference that i biffed on mentioning).

Two good brands and while the 5yr v 3yr spa warranty difference is worth considering I would not put any stock in the difference in shell warranties.

"Lifetime" warranties are never all they appear to be, my recommendation would be to consider the shell warranties to be equal (and shell issues aren't common, thus the longer period given). I suggest you consider all the other factors you mentioned in making your decision and certainly wet test.

[Mikey_in_NY]

The key difference, unless someone can definitvely state their opinion on the insulation difference in the 2( which would be awesome).... and not to fall into the 'jet count race' trap...is the 28 jets run on 2 4 hp pumps for Arctic vs 42 run on 2 2.5 hp pumps on the Sundance.

I've had the Sundance Hawthorne (680 series) for 18 months now, and would totally recommend it. My temps get down near zero, but certainly not as low as the ones your talking about. No experience with Arctic, but I believe they're very comparable to Sundance as far as reputation and quality goes, i.e. they're both high-end manufacturers.

Be careful when it comes to pump HP. According to the Sundance website the Hartford spec is:

"Two 2.5 hp (1 @ 4.5 bhp*, 1 @ 4.8 bhp*)"

"* BHP (brake horsepower) is a maximum value measured by the motor manufacturer with no pump installed."

I think a true comparison of the two brands is 2*4 BHP for the Arctic, and 1*4.5 BHP plus 1*4.8 BHP for the Sundance. This being said 'real' (constant) pump power is determined by the lower (HP) value, which is probably very similar for both brands. As other posters have said you need to wet test to figure this out for yourself.

Good luck!

[Water Boy]

1HP= 750 Watts

and Watts = Amps x Volts

On the Arctic motors, the max amps reads 12.9 amps. So, at its max performance, the HP would be 3.956 HP. I just put a meter on one of the spas here in the store, and it was reading between 12.2 and 12.3 amps. That would put it right at 3.77 HP or so, which is very close to the 4 HP. Most customers seem to be very happy with the power per jet. Sometimes they will even sit in there on low speed, or use the diverters to decrease power.

[bdubya200]

Many thanks to everyone. Very good info. Im especially greatful for the 680 line weigh in from an actual owenr.

Thanks everybody. Trying to wet test both this week.

[bdubya200]

Wet Tested the Arctic Cub yesterday with my wife. Unfortunately, we were both very underwhelmed. My wife liked the lounger, and I did as well, but the other seats were all just kind of 'meh'. The lack of foot jets in the foot well, which I originally thought wouldnt be a big deal, was in fact...a big deal. I realize its not a high end, flashy, option packed tub, but I just didnt get a sense of 'wow' or even ' cool.' from it. The whole experience just kind fo fell flat.

I had trouble getting comfortable and being able to fully relax in just about all of the seats, and the jet power on the non lounger side was less than impressive.

Hoping the Sundance doesnt dissapoint as well, because my wife, who was already a hard sell for me to get her to even consider spending that kind of money ona hot tub, said yesterday " You wont like hearing this, but that kind of made me not want a hot tub."

[THE SPA GUY]

Both are very good spas, But with regards to the "lifetime shell warranty" on the Arctic, in their warranty i believe it states that it has a lifetime warranty on the shell for" Water Loss" not cracking, splitting, blistering ,delaminating....And as SpaTech mentioned you have to watch out for the lifetime warranty, D1 has a lifetime warranty on there Ultralife shell, It does cover splitting, cracking, peeling delaminating, and water loss,for the first 7 years, after that for , They will cover the tubto repair or replace, if the tub is being sent to the factory to be repaired or replaced they will cover the labor for repair or replacement, but the shipping cost is up to the homeowner,,,,

bdubya200 On your comment about the Ozone as a bell and a whistle, I do not believe this to be true, Ozone gas produced kills bacteria, With the use of a 24 hour low circ pump it will reduce the amount of chemicals you will use . And i believe the Sundance you are looking at has that feature, With the 24/7 circ keeps the spa circulating, heat on demand without the main pump kicking on,which the Arctic does not have....Over here in Eastern Washington, i believe the circ pump is the way to go.....

[bdubya200]

Both are very good spas, But with regards to the "lifetime shell warranty" on the Arctic, in their warranty i believe it states that it has a lifetime warranty on the shell for" Water Loss" not cracking, splitting, blistering ,delaminating....And as SpaTech mentioned you have to watch out for the lifetime warranty, D1 has a lifetime warranty on there Ultralife shell, It does cover splitting, cracking, peeling delaminating, and water loss,for the first 7 years, after that for , They will cover the tubto repair or replace, if the tub is being sent to the factory to be repaired or replaced they will cover the labor for repair or replacement, but the shipping cost is up to the homeowner,,,,

bdubya200 On your comment about the Ozone as a bell and a whistle, I do not believe this to be true, Ozone gas produced kills bacteria, With the use of a 24 hour low circ pump it will reduce the amount of chemicals you will use . And i believe the Sundance you are looking at has that feature, With the 24/7 circ keeps the spa circulating, heat on demand without the main pump kicking on,which the Arctic does not have....Over here in Eastern Washington, i believe the circ pump is the way to go.....

Thanks for your feedback. I am aware that the longer warranty is for water leakage, not the surface. Those are 2 different warranties.

As for the Ozone...it is a bell/whistle. I dont deny rthat it prob. has benefits, its just not something that I want to have to pay for extra, and not something I expect to last more than a year or 2 before it stops working. Basically, I was trying to say, and did so poorly, that things like that, which wont last the life of the spa, and arent intended to, arent going to be a determining factor in the purchase. Also, I do not belive the 680 series has a circ pump standard. The one I was quoted would reuire that to be an upgrade.

Thanks for the feedback!

[spawn]

Wet Tested the Arctic Cub yesterday with my wife. Unfortunately, we were both very underwhelmed. My wife liked the lounger, and I did as well, but the other seats were all just kind of 'meh'. The lack of foot jets in the foot well, which I originally thought wouldnt be a big deal, was in fact...a big deal. I realize its not a high end, flashy, option packed tub, but I just didnt get a sense of 'wow' or even ' cool.' from it. The whole experience just kind fo fell flat.

I had trouble getting comfortable and being able to fully relax in just about all of the seats, and the jet power on the non lounger side was less than impressive.

Hoping the Sundance doesnt dissapoint as well, because my wife, who was already a hard sell for me to get her to even consider spending that kind of money ona hot tub, said yesterday " You wont like hearing this, but that kind of made me not want a hot tub."

You read all the time on these forums about how important it is to wet test. Good thing you didn't pull the trigger on the Cub without giving it a try. Hopefully the wet test with the Sundance will go better. Just take your time and don't buy a tub until you find one that you like. If the Mrs isn't happy, you won't be happy.

Wet testing also helps you find out what is important to you, as you learned about foot jets. Just be aware that not all foot jets are equal - some are kind of wimpy, but may still be okay for some folks. Do a long wet test and you may discover that a cool down seat is a pretty nice thing to have, or maybe not. Your preferences may change over time but it is interesting the way different people use the jetting. Some have jets on for a very short time that they are in the tub and like to sit in the still, hot water. I think my wife and I are pretty rare in that we like to have our jets on high the whole time, although we certainly don't sit in front of jets the whole time often moving into seats that fall between the jetted ones. Fortunaley our tub is quiet enough even on high that we can easily converse.

[Spa Dude]

I still find it very strange that the lounger gave a great massage but not the other seats. Considering that the pump for the other seats is positioned closer to the diverter and has shorter hose. I checked a cub here and the pressure from the captains chair is slightly more PSI than the lounger. Very strange!!!!!!

Also, why did the fact that there were not many foot jets in the footwell turn out to be an issue when you were fully aware there weren't many in there to begin with. This all sounds strange to me!! I hope your wet test in the Sundance goes better, without any "suprises" such as lack of footwell jets.

[bdubya200]

It wasnt a suprise. i realized that there werent foot jets all along. Simply, when we were int he tub and in the seats, the lack of turbulence in the rest of the water was kind of dissapointing. Foot jets or the volcano/foot dome/whatver would have been nice, but to get that, I need to spend a lot more money.

I was simply dissapointed in the fit and power of the Cub. i wanted to like it. A lot. Maybe I had unrealisitc expectations.

The Captains chair with more jets ( nearest to the controller is the only way I can explain it) had suffcient pressure when the diverter was turned that way. The other corner captains chair with fewer jets was downright mediocre pressure-wise with the diverter at neutral, and just ok with it turned that direction. I also had trouble 'staying in' wither captains chair. Im not a small guy, so maybe im just too 'bouyant/fat'. I felt like I had to focus to keep my legs from completely floating up and away. Not very relaxing to struggle to stay comfortable. Seems like the antithesis of why I want a hottub in the first place. Some sort of foothold would have been nice. Maybe I just expect too much...I dunno. I know Im being offered a nice price, but unless im cofortable in the tub, it isnt a good value at any price.

[Spa Dude]

It is true, you don't really get a feel for a tub until you have wet tested. I hope you find the tub for you. There is nothing better than trying a tub, being happy with it, then the next thing......it's in you back yard for use any time you like

[bdubya200]

Thanks. Arctic isnt out of the running, I would just need to wheel and deal on a differnt model if I feel that it fits better...and then fits the budget.

Testing the Sundance this afternoon. If I or the wife dont care for it either, the Hiot Tub search may get put on hold for a while, sadly.

[bdubya200]

Can anybody weigh in on Apollo Spas? namely the Columbia...then Cascade or Chelan? I know Blue Falls owns Arctic AND Apollo ( and Coyote), so my local Arctic Dealer also deals in Apollo at one of his showrooms. In talking with him, and what research I could do so far, the Apollos seem similarly constructed, but more of the Model T approach. " Any color you want as long as its black"...i.e...not customizable really. WYSIWYG. That sort of appeals to me. Makes horse trading more straight foward. I see the jet counts are higher, while using smaller jets ( less water used) and same pumps. Wondering if there would be enough power in the jets using the same pumps, more jets, but smaller. Smaller tubs and shorter warranty too...but each does have a 'foot dome.'

Can anybody weigh in on opinions / pros / cons/ expected price range on Apollo spas?

[THE SPA GUY]

I sell against them every day up here in Spokane, were they originally they were built till purchased by Blue Falls,,, I think they have come a long way i think they are a much better spa then previus builds, But i think for the dollar you are spending i think you get a better value out of D1 at home series or the Clearwater XS series, the J300 series, or the Sundance 680 series, even the Marquis Everyday, I think the comfort is not there,especially at the lower back , pretty squared at the seat back... But it has improved, also warranty not as strong.....

[bdubya200]

THanks for that. Havent seen them in person, so I appreciate the opinion.

Tested the Sundance Chelsee and Optima( out of our price range anyway). Wife hated them both. Unable to stay in any of the seats without a lot of effort. Saw a Certa, wants to try it out this week.

Anybdy know a creaming deal price?

Losing the battle it seems.