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Variable Speed Pumps Require?


tomtom2

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I want to replace my AO Smith 1 1/2HP pump with a variable speed pump to save on energy costs. From what I can tell, every pump out there requires a logical controller to set it for the variable speeds and control it. Is this correct? The controller I have is the following:

In the house:

Pentair 520154 V 1060 (remote to turn on the pool, schedule cycles, etc)

at the pool pumps in the controller:

Intellitouch i7+3

Thanks all!

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You could get one of the Pentair IntelliFlo models that would work well with your IntelliTouch. The variable speed/flow pumps vary in their programmability. You can set speed or flow rates for up to 4 programs on the Pentair IntelliFlo pump itself, but if you want to switch between these programs then you need at least the IntelliComm (for Pentair pumps). A step up from that are the EasyTouch controllers and a step up from that is the IntelliTouch you have. So while you could purchase a variable speed/flow pump and set it manually to a specific RPM/GPM, if you want to do anything else you'll need a controller that can communicate with that pump.

I have an IntelliFlo VF pump with an IntelliTouch i7+3 model like yours and it works out very well.

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So the pump I have is a 1 1/2hp and i run it about 2 hours a day. It does a fine job of keeping my pool clean. Everyone questions why I run it for only 2 hours, and I say it works fine. I have no reason to filter for 6 hours. Even in the summer hot months, I only filter more if Im heating the pool.

So that being said, am I going to see a reduction in cost in regards to electricity bill if I switch out to a variable speed pump? From what you are saying, I can only run the pump on different schedules at different speeds with my intellitouch system correct? So for example, 1 hour on high and 2 hours on low, or something like that? If I upgrade to an easytouch system, it will then be able to communicate to the pumps controller and auto adjust the pump speed.

Sorry, trying to understand if I can make this work with only replacing my pump and if its actually worth it.

Right now, my pump runs at 10.4 amps, so with a lower speed pump, but running longer, I should in theory save energy. In California, we have this stupid tiered electricity rate. and the more electricy from the baseline, the higher they charge you. So base I think is let say $.30 up to x kilwatts used. Once you reach the thresehold, you enter into .40 tier, then onward. So if I can keep my KWs down, I will stay out of the "red" high priced zone. (is what I think.. but not sure).

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You could get one of the Pentair IntelliFlo models that would work well with your IntelliTouch. The variable speed/flow pumps vary in their programmability. You can set speed or flow rates for up to 4 programs on the Pentair IntelliFlo pump itself, but if you want to switch between these programs then you need at least the IntelliComm (for Pentair pumps). A step up from that are the EasyTouch controllers and a step up from that is the IntelliTouch you have. So while you could purchase a variable speed/flow pump and set it manually to a specific RPM/GPM, if you want to do anything else you'll need a controller that can communicate with that pump.

I have an IntelliFlo VF pump with an IntelliTouch i7+3 model like yours and it works out very well.

So this pump would be a direct replacement?

http://www.poolproducts.com/SPP/productr.asp?pf_id=E2850&refcode=GSHOP&FNM=90#reviews

Thanks for your help, I do appreciate it!

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That pump will work fine with your controller.

This is another pump that will work: Sta-Rite IntelliPro VS-3050.

Its is made by a company that is now owned by Pentair. I like this pump better because it has unions and is easy to (retrofit) install. They both use the same controller (drive) on the motor.

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That pump will work fine with your controller.

This is another pump that will work: Sta-Rite IntelliPro VS-3050.

Its is made by a company that is now owned by Pentair. I like this pump better because it has unions and is easy to (retrofit) install. They both use the same controller (drive) on the motor.

Thanks for the Sta-Rite link. The pump looks great at about $850. I looked at the manual and I can see how it wires into the InelliTouch system I have it looks like. Im missing a piece of information on how these new pumps work. I see they have variable speeds, do these speeds vary on its own or do they need the IntelliTouch system to tell it when to vary. For example, if I filter with no heat, does it keep it at speed 2 or or if filter with heat, the speed adjusts to 3 or 4? I was trying to figure how how it logically adjusts itself... or does it simply do it when it needs to?

Thanks much for the tips! From what I can tell, I should see a huge drop in my electricity bill getting my single speed out and moving into a variable speed motor.

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That pump will work fine with your controller.

This is another pump that will work: Sta-Rite IntelliPro VS-3050.

Its is made by a company that is now owned by Pentair. I like this pump better because it has unions and is easy to (retrofit) install. They both use the same controller (drive) on the motor.

Thanks for the Sta-Rite link. The pump looks great at about $850. I looked at the manual and I can see how it wires into the InelliTouch system I have it looks like. Im missing a piece of information on how these new pumps work. I see they have variable speeds, do these speeds vary on its own or do they need the IntelliTouch system to tell it when to vary. For example, if I filter with no heat, does it keep it at speed 2 or or if filter with heat, the speed adjusts to 3 or 4? I was trying to figure how how it logically adjusts itself... or does it simply do it when it needs to?

Thanks much for the tips! From what I can tell, I should see a huge drop in my electricity bill getting my single speed out and moving into a variable speed motor.

You will program the preset speed from the IntelliTouch.

I assume your pool is relatively small since you filter only 2 hours a day, or is that only because it's off season? Most heaters want a 25 to 30 GPM flow. I aim my customers toward 35 GPM (approximated) on a clean filter. As the filter gets dirty, flow resistance increases. The VS-3050 and VS-SVRS versions don't figure out flow, they go by RPM. The VF version understands flow rate though.

Please note that tablet feeders and skimmers have issues when using low flow rates. They are typically expecting at least twice the flow rate. The skimmer issue is easily accounted for by setting a couple of higher speed periods for 15 minutes or so. How are you adding sanitizer?

Scott

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When used with a controller, you can have many programs, not just 4 (the limit of 4 was for those programmed in the pump itself without a full controller). With each program, it has an associated speed (RPM). You can set a specific speed for a gas heater and a different one for solar and yet a different one for a special feature such as a waterfall. When there is a conflict with more than one special feature enabled, the highest speed wins. So in your case, you'd run at low speed unless you were heating the pool or wanted some higher speed for better skimming. Note that with these pumps, there isn't very much difference in overall energy usage at low speeds when you factor in flow rates and turnover time. That is, the total energy for one turnover is fairly constant whether you are running at a low speed with only 15 GPM vs. a higher speed at 24 GPM -- the former needs to run longer, but the product of that time with the energy is similar in both cases. The savings is that total energy cost is much lower than at higher speeds, especially for flow rates of 30 GPM and above. This is approximate and depends on the specific plumbing in your system, but gives you a rough idea.

Since you aren't running your single-speed pump for very long, your total savings isn't going to be as large as in my case where I saved roughly half in my pump electricity costs going from around $1500 down to $700 per year. In my case, I got the IntelliFlo VF so that I could set the flow rate (GPM) instead of the speed (RPM). In your case, if you didn't want the IntelliFlo VF you could get a flow meter that you pipe in a straight section of pipe. That's useful to know how long it takes to do one turnover, for example, or how close you are to the minimum flow for your heater.

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So my pool is 18k with a spill over spa into the pool. I have solarchlor that floats and generates enough chlorine to keep the pool relatively clean. The pool does not get used that much in the summer where I need to filter for many hours to get it back into shape again. I level the PH, throw some PhosFree Plus (I think thats that name) and some shock packets every now then if my CL drops. I leave my Polaris plugged in and it sweeps whenever the pump is turned on.. which is probably another consideration. If it runs at lower speeds, I will need to adjust the flow rate I assume to keep the vac moving along.

Im starting to understand a little how this work. My Intellitouch i7+3 has the capabilities to operate the variable speed pump on certain macros from what Im gathering. If heating is on, run at x speed (higher flow) if I want to sweep the pool, run at higher rate, but for general circulation, the macro would set the pump at a lower speed.

As for the energy cost savings, I guess Im a little confused. If these pumps *can* run at lower RPMs, therefore pulling less amps, I would think there would be some savings in electricity. I was reading the brochure on one of the pumps it states that even if used a one speed, the type of motor used is purely more effcient than a single speed. no?

High speed, short time, not much savings

low speed, longer time, possible savings.

I cant really trust the online calculators these pool stores give as an example.

I probably should increase my cycle time from 2 hours to 4 hours I assume to better circulate the pool. Knock on wood, but the past 2+ years, I have had it on 2 hours every night and not much of a problem. (as long as I keep up with my chem)

Thanks everyone!

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You are basically correct that 1) these pumps are very efficient at lower speeds compared to even 2-speed pumps and 2) at a low speed for a longer time you can get a lot of savings. My only point was that once you get below a certain speed, you don't get much more overall savings when you factor in that you need to run longer. Let me give you specific data for my own pool, but recognize that every situation is different. I list the GPM, RPM, Watts, PSI (pressure-side only at top of cartridge filter) and time and kilowatt-hours for 1 turnover for my 16,000 gallon pool.

The following are with the solar OFF:

15 GPM, 1185 RPM, 155 W, 3 .. PSI, 17.8 h, 2.8 kWh

18 GPM, 1325 RPM, 195 W, 4 .. PSI, 14.8 h, 2.9 kWh

24 GPM, 1460 RPM, 255 W, 4 .. PSI, 11.1 h, 2.8 kWh

26 GPM, 1495 RPM, 275 W, ? .. PSI, 10.2 h, 2.8 kWh <--- this is what I run when the solar is OFF

30 GPM, 1805 RPM, 420 W, 6.5 PSI, 8.9 h, 3.7 kWh

36 GPM, 1975 RPM, 535 W, 8 .. PSI, 7.4 h, 4.0 kWh

40 GPM, 2075 RPM, 615 W, ? .. PSI, 6.7 h, 4.1 kWh <--- this is what I run when I use the Gas Heater

42 GPM, 2160 RPM, 685 W, 9.5 PSI, 6.3 h, 4.4 kWh

48 GPM, 2310 RPM, 835 W, 10.5 PSI, 5.6 h, 4.6 kWh

54 GPM, 2490 RPM, 1030 W, 12 . PSI, 4.9 h, 5.1 kWh

60 GPM, 2710 RPM, 1305 W, 14.5 PSI, 4.4 h, 5.8 kWh

66 GPM, 2900 RPM, 1590 W, 17 . PSI, 4.0 h, 6.4 kWh

72 GPM, 3080 RPM, 1895 W, 19 . PSI, 3.7 h, 7.0 kWh

78 GPM, 3360 RPM, 2495 W, 22.5 PSI, 3.4 h, 8.5 kWh

The following are with the solar ON:

30 GPM, 2300 RPM, 715 W, 14 . PSI, 8.9 h, 6.4 kWh

33 GPM, 2370 RPM, 785 W, 15 . PSI, 8.1 h, 6.3 kWh

36 GPM, 2490 RPM, 895 W, 16 . PSI, 7.4 h, 6.6 kWh

39 GPM, 2630 RPM, 1045 W, 18 . PSI, 6.8 h, 7.1 kWh

42 GPM, 2755 RPM, 1185 W, 20 . PSI, 6.3 h, 7.5 kWh

45 GPM, 2900 RPM, 1380 W, 22 . PSI, 5.9 h, 8.2 kWh

48 GPM, 3000 RPM, 1530 W, 24 . PSI, 5.6 h, 8.5 kWh <--- this is what I run when the solar is ON

51 GPM, 3200 RPM, 1835 W, 27 . PSI, 5.2 h, 9.6 kWh

54 GPM, 3325 RPM, 2075 W, 29.5 PSI, 4.9 h, 10.2 kWh

57 GPM, 3425 RPM, 2295 W, 31 . PSI, 4.7 h, 10.7 kWh

The following is when the pool sweep (The Pool Cleaner) is on with its dedicated line:

15 GPM, 2180 RPM, 540 W

So you can see that with the solar off, the overall energy consumption for one turnover doesn't really vary from 15 GPM through 26 GPM so I chose 26 GPM so that I would get closer to 1 turnover for my 8 hour on time in case the solar didn't come on at all during a cloudy day. Normally, when the day is sunny the solar is on for 4-6 hours. So on average I get at least 60*(4*48+4*26)/16,000 = 1.1 turnovers which is my goal. For the solar on, this is determined by my having 12 solar panels with the recommended flow per panel of 4 GPM. I could save more by going down in flow rate, but at some loss in efficiency (panels are more efficient at higher flow rates). I run the gas heater at 40 GPM because it requires a minimum of 30 GPM and I wanted it to be somewhat faster to keep the heat exchanger a little cooler and not have the water be too hot out of the returns.

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That is some amazing data. I do not have solar, so I would have to go by your numbers. I have a large dome filter cartridge also. My pressure gauge is broken on it, but I can tell when its dirty when the water coming off the spa into the pool is not spilling as fast.

So looking at your numbers, and run the following scenarios:

40 GPM, 2075 RPM, 615 W, ? .. PSI, 6.7 h, 4.1 kWh <--- this is what I run when I use the Gas Heater (Program #1)

15 GPM, 2180 RPM, 540 W Pool sweep. (Program #2)

Program #3 Not sure for skimming. I would think that 40 gpm would work. But right now, Im running at 3300 with the single stage. It pushes quite a bit of water around. (seems like)

The only thing I dont have for this maybe to work, is an automatic valve to close and open to a certain spot for my Polaris. Maybe I dont need one, but thought Id throw it in there. I have Jandy valves to for the heater and for the spa mode. There is a manual valve for the Polaris to adjust its flow amount. If I close it, it pushes more water to the spa outlet (which then overflows into the pool). If I open it up, less water goes into the spa....

I guess I would need to figure out kwh per hour on what my current pump uses to justify a variable speed. I see you are using 4.1 even at 40 gpm which seems a lot lower than what I have. Not sure if my math is correct, but 10.4 amps would be about 11 kWh. (roughly?!)

For my IntelliTouch, I simply need to program in the (4) different programs for that correlate with the pump program #1, 2, 3, 4. (correct)

You can probably tell me also... buy the pump and have someone program it also.... I can switch the pump out, Im just confused about the programming piece i think. (Bay Area if you are interested :)!

Cheers!

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The amperage rating is for worst case current draw including start-up. Is your pump 110V or 220V? I'm guessing it's 220V which would probably make your pump roughly 2 kilowatts when operating though it could be higher (you can look at your electric meter and check the energy usage with the pump on vs. off). If you are only running 2 hours per day, then you are probably at around 4 kWh energy consumption per day which actually isn't horribly high (though it could be lowered with the IntelliFlo). Is that what you are seeing or is it higher than that? What do you have for your spa in terms of jets? Do you have a separate pump for the spa or does your main pump just get switched over via a valve to output to the spa? You might keep your old pump for your spa since at high flow rates it might be at least as efficient as the IntelliFlo would be and you probably don't run your spa very often. You could have the IntelliFlo set to drive your spa, so you've got some options here.

I don't know your plumbing situation (size of pipe -- 1.5", 2", etc., number of returns), but let's say you've got a high 90 GPM flow rate. Then, 2 hours with your 18,000 gallon pool this is 60% of one turnover. With the IntelliFlo set similar to my pool, you could get one full turnover for 2.8 kWh though I suspect that this will be lower in your pool since the piping may be more efficient. I also have an oversized cartridge filter, but it hardly ever shows a pressure increase above and beyond that when it is clean -- I only need to clean it once a year but I have an electric opaque safety cover that keeps the pool fairly clean.

If you were only to do 60% of a turnover, then the IntelliFlo should be able to cut your electricity usage by around 60% if not more, but this assumes you will normally use a slow flow rate for circulation -- something like the 26 GPM that I am using. This seems to be enough for skimming as well in a well-designed pool, but it again depends on the number of returns you have, placement of the skimmer relative to normal wind direction, etc. Certainly with the IntelliFlo you would be able to "tune" things to work at the lowest possible cost. However, if your gas heater is on a lot or you need a lot of time for the pool sweep, then this will cut into your energy savings, though you should still come out ahead.

Your IntelliTouch already today has a "Heater" program that can turn on your gas heater when the temperature is too low (though you might just have this being controlled by your gas heater itself, though that questions why you have an IntelliTouch). You would just set manual programs for higher speeds for the pool sweep and the spa. The Filter mode is the default for circulation. If you are concerned about energy costs, you should first get a pool cover if you don't already have one and second consider getting a solar system. We have solar, but use gas to extend the season further and it's very expensive, but without the solar it would be astronomical. We keep our pool warm at 88ºF, however, as my wife uses it as a therapy pool.

Do you have a dedicated line for your Polaris or is it just hooked up to one of the returns (assuming it's a pressure-side cleaner)? In my system, I have a Jandy valve that switches to a dedicated line to drive The Pool Cleaner, but it does not require a booster pump and works with low flow. What model Polaris do you have? The 360, 165, 65 and Turbo Turtle do not need a booster pump, but the 480, 3900s, 380, 280, 180 do.

I live and work in the Bay Area, but am not competent to work on plumbing or electrical. I could explain how to program the IntelliTouch. You also need to decide whether to get the IntelliFlo VF with it's built in flow meter (or equivalent that reports flow rates) or whether you will get the variable-speed IntelliFlo and plumb in a separate flow meter. It isn't a necessity, but it helps more easily tune your system. Otherwise, you have to experiment more since you won't really know how many turnovers you are getting nor how close you are to the minimum flow rate needed for the gas heater (though it should have a shut-off at some point, but I wouldn't count on that to be accurate). Knowing the flow rate will also be helpful if you get a solar system in order to tune it as well.

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That is some amazing data. I do not have solar, so I would have to go by your numbers. I have a large dome filter cartridge also. My pressure gauge is broken on it, but I can tell when its dirty when the water coming off the spa into the pool is not spilling as fast.

So looking at your numbers, and run the following scenarios:

40 GPM, 2075 RPM, 615 W, ? .. PSI, 6.7 h, 4.1 kWh <--- this is what I run when I use the Gas Heater (Program #1)

15 GPM, 2180 RPM, 540 W Pool sweep. (Program #2)

Program #3 Not sure for skimming. I would think that 40 gpm would work. But right now, Im running at 3300 with the single stage. It pushes quite a bit of water around. (seems like)

The only thing I dont have for this maybe to work, is an automatic valve to close and open to a certain spot for my Polaris. Maybe I dont need one, but thought Id throw it in there. I have Jandy valves to for the heater and for the spa mode. There is a manual valve for the Polaris to adjust its flow amount. If I close it, it pushes more water to the spa outlet (which then overflows into the pool). If I open it up, less water goes into the spa....

I guess I would need to figure out kwh per hour on what my current pump uses to justify a variable speed. I see you are using 4.1 even at 40 gpm which seems a lot lower than what I have. Not sure if my math is correct, but 10.4 amps would be about 11 kWh. (roughly?!)

For my IntelliTouch, I simply need to program in the (4) different programs for that correlate with the pump program #1, 2, 3, 4. (correct)

You can probably tell me also... buy the pump and have someone program it also.... I can switch the pump out, Im just confused about the programming piece i think. (Bay Area if you are interested :)!

Cheers!

Well actually, I just found this calc on the web..

Amps x Volts = Watts

Watts/1000 = kilowatts or kW

Kilowatts x Hours = Kilowatt Hours or kWh

So my current pump is 10.4 Amps.. at 230 volts.

10.4 x 230 volts = 2392 Watts

2392/1000 = 2.392KW x 2 hours = 4.78kWh

30 days x 4.78 kWh = 143.4 kWh per month

Last month I had 999 kWh used, so you can imagine my PGE bill... blah. I still cant figure out why electrical is so high. Energy Efficient appliances, new 95% furnace, low watt bulbs. I thought maybe it was the pool, but looking it this calc, its not really the pool from what I can tell.

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I was being conservative since I know the power on my pump was less than it's volts X amps product. Nevertheless, it does give you a maximum limit. If I were you, I'd still look at your electric meter with the pool pump off vs. on just to be sure.

I look at the kWh per day and before I got the IntelliFlo I was at around 38-39 kWh/day in July while it is now around 31-32 kWh/day. Our house is around 3000 square feet. In theory, I should have saved more like 12 kWh/day, but I'll take 7 anytime. At 40 cents per kWh marginal rate, this is $84 per month savings over a 7-month season (and additional smaller savings over the winter) so the pump paid for itself fairly quickly. If there were no pool, our basic electric would be around 22 kWh/day. You have around 33 kWh/day including the pool and around 28 kWh/day without the pool.

You would be surprised how quickly energy adds up around the house. Look at your meter when appliances are on to get a rough idea. Also, things like plasma TVs and such really add up as do incandescent light bulbs especially in well lit areas like kitchens where you may have 4 75 watt bulbs (300 watts total) over a sink area plus more elsewhere. Also, if you have air conditioning or heating, then the blower consumes a lot of energy. I presume your clothes dryer and water heater are both gas -- if they are electric, then that uses a lot more energy (and cost).

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If you were to still pump for the same number of turnovers you are doing now, which I will assume is currently 1/2 turnover at 75 GPM (so 18,000/75/60/2 = 2 hours), then if you were to get a variable speed/flow pump and ran at 25 GPM or so for 6 hours (so still 1/2 turnover), then that will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 to 1.4 kwH depending on your piping (it could be less). So compared to your current 4.78 kWh which I'll just call 4 kWh to be conservative, you would save at least 30*(4-1.4) = 78 kWh per month and probably more. At 40 cents per kWh marginal rate that would be at least $30 per month savings. Your savings could be higher than this, but this gives you a very rough idea.

Basically, you have already saved about half by only having the pump run for 2 hours per day for presumably 1/2 turnover. Though roughly 100 kWh per month is not large compared to your nearly 1000 kWh total, it's still on the order of a 10% savings which is nothing to sneeze at. Nevertheless, the payback time for the pump will be several to many years -- perhaps 3 if my assumptions are too conservative or perhaps 6 if they are not. I'm assuming 6 month swim season time; if you run your pump for 2 hours a day during the non-swim season as well, then the payback times would be half as long.

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If you were to still pump for the same number of turnovers you are doing now, which I will assume is currently 1/2 turnover at 75 GPM (so 18,000/75/60/2 = 2 hours), then if you were to get a variable speed/flow pump and ran at 25 GPM or so for 6 hours (so still 1/2 turnover), then that will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 to 1.4 kwH depending on your piping (it could be less). So compared to your current 4.78 kWh which I'll just call 4 kWh to be conservative, you would save at least 30*(4-1.4) = 78 kWh per month and probably more. At 40 cents per kWh marginal rate that would be at least $30 per month savings. Your savings could be higher than this, but this gives you a very rough idea.

Basically, you have already saved about half by only having the pump run for 2 hours per day for presumably 1/2 turnover. Though roughly 100 kWh per month is not large compared to your nearly 1000 kWh total, it's still on the order of a 10% savings which is nothing to sneeze at. Nevertheless, the payback time for the pump will be several to many years -- perhaps 3 if my assumptions are too conservative or perhaps 6 if they are not. I'm assuming 6 month swim season time; if you run your pump for 2 hours a day during the non-swim season as well, then the payback times would be half as long.

Thanks much everyone for your tips and advice. I stopped into Leaslie's Pool yesterday.. (Not a fan of the place, but needed to actually see the Intelliflo VF.) But a light finally came on on how it works.

It basically has 4 presets on the device. You calibrate the flow based upon preset. Im assuming to setup the base calibration, you set your presets as follows: (at least for mine)

- Heat with Polaris connected

- Polaris only connected

- Spa Mode with Heat (only cycles water through Spa)

- Fill Mode (produces the waterfall over the spa tub into the pool)

- Polaris not connected (I usually have it connected though all the time)

Each of these "presets" should have a certain GPM associated to it for its baseline. Since everyone pool and piping is different.. Id have to play around with it and to see what my max/min should be set at.

From what I gather, there really is nothing to do with the Intellitouch Panel. Simply wire it in just as if it was any other pump so it turns on/off on the schedule times I set with the panel. I kept thinking there was "logic" between the panel and the pump.. which I assume there is not.

So the VF will auto-adjust its speed based upon resistance. If the preset say 25 gpm and it the filter is dirty, it will raise the RPMs to keep the flow consistent correct?

Looks like I pick up a VF at Amazon or ebay for around $1200. Less PGE rebate of $100 im in it for $1100. Maybe get $100 for my 3 year old pump. So if I can drop my kWh of around 100 kWh give or take.. it could be even more.

The Rate schedule just changed again with PGE, which sucks.

Total Energy Rates ($ per kWh)

Baseline Usage $0.12233 (I)

101% - 130% of Baseline $0.13907 (I) (was .11)

131% - 200% of Baseline $0.28011 ® (was .13!)

201% - 300% of Baseline $0.38978 ® (was .29!)

Over 300% of Baseline $0.38978 (was .40)

So our baseline is 365 kwH in our "zone". Its a racket around here in NorCal. I asked to get a SmartMeter install to help with monitoring of this.

To me it looks like a no brainer to put in the pump... Now... where did I put that extra $1000 for a new pool pump?

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The 4 programs on the IntelliFlo pumps are only if you do not have an intelligent controller, so would be if you were using a basic IntelliComm to simply trigger which of the 4 programs to use. With your IntelliTouch system, you do set the programs and flow rates on the IntelliTouch and can have many more than just 4. The controller most certainly communicates with the pump and controls it. I have the IntelliTouch i7+3 as well as the IntelliFlo VF and I control everything through the controller, including the use of macros to ensure that some things are on while others are off (valves, etc.) since I don't want to accidentally have a high-flow-rate program set to on when I am running the pool cleaner through a dedicated line that expects only 15 GPM. When multiple programs are enabled, the highest flow rate wins.

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The 4 programs on the IntelliFlo pumps are only if you do not have an intelligent controller, so would be if you were using a basic IntelliComm to simply trigger which of the 4 programs to use. With your IntelliTouch system, you do set the programs and flow rates on the IntelliTouch and can have many more than just 4. The controller most certainly communicates with the pump and controls it. I have the IntelliTouch i7+3 as well as the IntelliFlo VF and I control everything through the controller, including the use of macros to ensure that some things are on while others are off (valves, etc.) since I don't want to accidentally have a high-flow-rate program set to on when I am running the pool cleaner through a dedicated line that expects only 15 GPM. When multiple programs are enabled, the highest flow rate wins.

Is programming my Intellicomm something I could do on my own. Im fairly technically, I assume its a piece of software and RS232 cable

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If you have an IntelliTouch, you don't need the Intellicom. An RS-485 connection is made between the IntelliFlow and Intellitouch so you can set the 4 available preset speeds.

The IntelliFlow comes in 3 flavors, the VS-3050, VS-SVRS, and the VF. The controllers for each model is the only difference. The pump body and motor are the same. All require 240V.

The VF is the only one that is GPM aware. The VS-3050 and VS-SVRS are RPM based.

The VS-3050 does not have an LCD panel and is pretty basic. You can change the preset speeds on it's panel but you won't know what the exact settings are without a Pentair automation system to tell you.

At full speed, these are 3 HP pumps so plumb with big pipes and filters.

Scott

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If you have an IntelliTouch, you don't need the Intellicom. An RS-485 connection is made between the IntelliFlow and Intellitouch so you can set the 4 available preset speeds.

The IntelliFlow comes in 3 flavors, the VS-3050, VS-SVRS, and the VF. The controllers for each model is the only difference. The pump body and motor are the same. All require 240V.

The VF is the only one that is GPM aware. The VS-3050 and VS-SVRS are RPM based.

The VS-3050 does not have an LCD panel and is pretty basic. You can change the preset speeds on it's panel but you won't know what the exact settings are without a Pentair automation system to tell you.

At full speed, these are 3 HP pumps so plumb with big pipes and filters.

Scott

I was going to get the VF anyways. As for the 3hp, Id never need that much anyways at 18k

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An RS-485 connection is made between the IntelliFlow and Intellitouch so you can set the 4 available preset speeds.

Just a clarification. With the Intellitouch you aren't limited to 4 speeds. The Intellitouch programs the pump on the fly for a speed or flow rate change so you can have a dozen different programs if you want to. I know in my system I have at least 6: normal circulation at 26 GPM, solar panels (with a 3-way valve to switch flow) at 48 GPM, gas heater at 30 GPM, pool cleaner (through a dedicated line with a 3-way valve to switch flow) at 15 GPM, high-speed override even without solar at 48 GPM, another high-speed override at 78 GPM.

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An RS-485 connection is made between the IntelliFlow and Intellitouch so you can set the 4 available preset speeds.

Just a clarification. With the Intellitouch you aren't limited to 4 speeds. The Intellitouch programs the pump on the fly for a speed or flow rate change so you can have a dozen different programs if you want to. I know in my system I have at least 6: normal circulation at 26 GPM, solar panels (with a 3-way valve to switch flow) at 48 GPM, gas heater at 30 GPM, pool cleaner (through a dedicated line with a 3-way valve to switch flow) at 15 GPM, high-speed override even without solar at 48 GPM, another high-speed override at 78 GPM.

Being the novice I am, is there software I can download to program my Intellitouch for these different cycles? I know there is software and some special cable. I was not sure if I have to order it or only a Pentair dealer has to do it. I suppose for $150 buck I can a dealer program it for me. (im a techie, so I can probably figure it out)

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Ok, seems like I would need to add the IntelliCom part to my existing IntelliTouch System to be able to control the speeds, etc with the VF pump. My other option (correct me if Im wrong) is to simply hook the pump up, schedule my filter runs and calibrate the GPM and be done with it. I will still get savings, probably not the extreme end since I cant have multiple GPM schedules.

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Forget IntelliComm. That is only needed if you do not have IntelliTouch or EasyTouch controllers. It is for those with existing "dumb" control systems like a solar temperature sensor where you connect a simple on/off power signal to the IntelliComm from such a unit to trigger a program on the pump. Again, you do NOT need IntelliComm. You directly connect the IntelliTouch to the pump and program the IntelliTouch directly itself (via its control panel -- I assume you have one, either wired or wireless).

What do you mean you cannot have multiple GPM schedules? Of course you can. I told you that I have a base circulation flow rate when there are no special features turned on (i.e. solar, gas) but I can click a button on my remote control panel in my house and get 48 GPM instead of 26 GPM.

The only limitation is that when using the IntelliTouch controller, Pentair apparently disabled the logic that automatically keeps track of how much has been cumulatively pumped and shuts off early. Perhaps that is what you are referring to. In practice, it is a minor savings since the cost of the base (low) flow rate is fairly low so running a little longer usually isn't a problem, but I agree that it would have been better for them to keep that feature (and it's possible that newer IntelliTouch have an option or have been changed to support this -- mine is now around 3-1/2 years old.

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