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Sundance 850 Watchdog Error - Broken Pump?


trisail02

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Hello!

I'm really hoping someone here can help with our problem. We're first time hot tub owners so we're still learning.

We have a Sundance 850 series 'Marin' hot tub (purchased by the owner 2005 - we're the 2nd owners) that worked great until recently when it had a tripped breaker issue but then that has turned to a 'Watchdog' ('----') error since I tried to diagnose why the breaker kept tripping. Below is the series of events leading up to the Watchdog error.

I went to check on the hot tub and the breaker was tripped. When I turned the breaker on, it tripped again right away. I suspected that the heating element needed to be replaced so I disconnected the electric circuit for the heating element from the control panel and tried to turn on the hot tub to see if it would run. The breaker tripped right away again. So now I didn't think the heating element was the problem.

Next, I disconnected the single-speed pump then turned on the hot tub again. Everything seemed to work (the two speed pump worked, the blower worked, and the heating element worked), except of course for the pump I disconnected. This led me to believe that the disconnected pump was bad and needed replacing. To confirm this, I turned off the hot tub and I reconnected the single-speed pump again. I then turned on the hot tub and nothing worked - which I thought confirmed my suspicion that the single-speed pump was broken. (and must've been causing the breaker to trip)

Then, I shut down the hot tub again to put all of the covers back on, disconnected the 'broken' pump and left it with wire nuts on each wire. I put the cover pack on the panel, put the outside panels back on, then flipped the breaker again and after a few seconds, I got the "watchdog" "- - - - " error.

Does anyone have any experience with anything similar? Or any thoughts?

If I replace the single-speed pump myself, do you know if the 'Watchdog' error will go away on its own or do I need to call service tech. (Obviously, I'd rather try and fix it myself but I wasn't sure if it was even possible to 'reset' the computer on your own.)

ANY help anyone could give us would be so very very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help!

(Below are some specs we found on the single-speed pump/motor in case they help at all)

Hot Tub: Sundance Marin 850 Series (year 2005)

'Broken' Pump: Emerson T55SWBNC-999

HP: 2.5

RPM: 3450

Volts: 230

Hz: 60

SFAmps: 10.0

Frame: 48Y

InsClass: F

1081 Motor

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Is this pump running in line with the heater? If so it will be the pump to circulate water through the heater when the spa is asking for heat, which may be the cause of your error code. If that's the case, you will need to replace that pump to resolve the issue. I have no experience with your model of spa, but hope this info may help

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I have replaced both my pumps in my 2003 Marin last year and they are not that hard replace. I went back to my dealer and got the pumps that were and exact fix. The hardest part was disconnecting the pumping lines to the pump. They were a little tight to get to with a pipe wrench. Not much space without taking off the side covers.

I kept my old two speed pump and bought a new wet end so now I have a replacement. I took the motor apart and grease the bearings. It was an AO Smith motor and could be rebuilt. My single speed pump was junk. It was an Emerson motor and the bearings were shot and could not be rebuilt.

Also I would suggest you keep your eyes open for a replacement circulation pump. I found a new one on E-Bay this past summer and replaced it as well. The bearings were getting dry and it was making a lot of noise. It’s also very simple to repair.

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Hi all -

Thanks for all those who have tried to help with their responses - it is so very much appreciated!

Spa Dude - The pump is not running in line with the heater so we're still not exactly sure what the problem is - but thx for the troubleshooting help.

RFD100 - Thanks for sharing your personal experiences - It's great to know that others have replaced the pumps on their own and that it IS possible for motivated do-it-yourselfers! LOVE the idea about watching for an extra circulation pump on ebay and great to know that it's pretty simple to repair.

david_bilton - We did check our manual and saw that the watchdog error 'deactivated' the hot tub but we weren't really sure what could cause that. So, we really appreciate you listing some of the possible reasons that could be the cause of this. I'm guessing our error is due to the 'blown F1 fuse/loose wire' since we disconnected the pump and turned the pump on and off. We tried to trick it by putting the pump back on and turning the hot tub on and off again but it still read the 'watchdog' (----) error.

Since it's going to be so very cold here tonight, we decided our quick fix is to drain it and get all the water out as much as we possibly can. We're using the guidelines for 'winterizing' in the manual and are crossing our fingers that everything will be ok. We're pretty nervous about doing this at the last minute but we're hoping everything will be ok. We have a little heater running near the pipes now to make sure everything doesn't freeze before we're finished winterizing today.

It also seems that it's pretty risky to refill the hot tub in winter again (which would obviously be ideal) and that it's best to wait until spring or call a professional.

Does anyone have any experience with winterizing or refilling in cold weather months?

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Hello!

I'm really hoping someone here can help with our problem. We're first time hot tub owners so we're still learning.

We have a Sundance 850 series 'Marin' hot tub (purchased by the owner 2005 - we're the 2nd owners) that worked great until recently when it had a tripped breaker issue but then that has turned to a 'Watchdog' ('----') error since I tried to diagnose why the breaker kept tripping. Below is the series of events leading up to the Watchdog error.

I went to check on the hot tub and the breaker was tripped. When I turned the breaker on, it tripped again right away. I suspected that the heating element needed to be replaced so I disconnected the electric circuit for the heating element from the control panel and tried to turn on the hot tub to see if it would run. The breaker tripped right away again. So now I didn't think the heating element was the problem.

Next, I disconnected the single-speed pump then turned on the hot tub again. Everything seemed to work (the two speed pump worked, the blower worked, and the heating element worked), except of course for the pump I disconnected. This led me to believe that the disconnected pump was bad and needed replacing. To confirm this, I turned off the hot tub and I reconnected the single-speed pump again. I then turned on the hot tub and nothing worked - which I thought confirmed my suspicion that the single-speed pump was broken. (and must've been causing the breaker to trip)

Then, I shut down the hot tub again to put all of the covers back on, disconnected the 'broken' pump and left it with wire nuts on each wire. I put the cover pack on the panel, put the outside panels back on, then flipped the breaker again and after a few seconds, I got the "watchdog" "- - - - " error.

Does anyone have any experience with anything similar? Or any thoughts?

If I replace the single-speed pump myself, do you know if the 'Watchdog' error will go away on its own or do I need to call service tech. (Obviously, I'd rather try and fix it myself but I wasn't sure if it was even possible to 'reset' the computer on your own.)

ANY help anyone could give us would be so very very much appreciated.

As you have explained things here you are suffering from two separate issues, one causing the gfci to trip and one causing watchdog. They will not be caused by the same components. Sounds like you did the right thing by isolating the cause of the gfci tripping (primary jet pump). To investigate the watchdog you obviously need that gfci to stay on. Rebooting the board will clear an existing watchdog. (leave the power off for over a minute, then back on)

Sometimes watchdogs are a fluke, and once properly reset never come back (weird power issues that cause the electronics of the circuit board to hiccup and trigger a watchdog, once it's been set it won't come out without a good power down) Assuming watchdog keeps coming back, keep reading.

<cut and paste from a post last month> I do have a pretty fast/simple diagnostic you can perform that could tell you most likely what the problem is.

Sometimes this take two people (one at the breaker, one at the spa display) since the watchdog can come up very fast. Turn the tub off for over a minute (this lets the circuit board power completely down) When turned back on we are looking for what the display shows before it goes to ----, if it displays a very high temp >104 (or a rapidly climbing temperature) , we can be pretty sure you need a temp sensor replaced, a cheap part and very easy to replace.

If this checks out to be true the follow up post here will pertain exactly to your spa (part numbers i gave are the same and everything)

If it doesn't act like that, the next step would be to visually inspect the capacitors on the circuit board, lots of capacitors supplied in electronics in the early 2000's suffer from capacitor plague, visually you can see it with "swollen" capacitors. (actually it looks exactly like the picture on the wikipedia page labeled "bulging capacitors", and your capacitors will be side by side also) The tops of your capacitors should be perfectly flat.

Those are the two most common failed parts I see that cause an errant watchdog, however it can be caused by other parts. Dirty filter/low flo conditions can cause it but should show you other errors before kicking to watchdog, like FLO or OH.

Feel free to follow up if you have more questions

<edit> heh, looks like you responded while i was in a long winded post.

all those little tiny hoses going from pump to pump (1/4" clear guys) are part of the freeze protection built in since its very hard to remove all the water from the pump heads anyways. But i would for sure put the sides back on to at least "cover" the plumbing

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Wuice,

If you have a swollen capacitors do you just replace the capacitors or do you recommend a new board? I realize they are soldered to the board however that’s not that difficult if you know what you’re doing or have friends that do and can find the parts.

My tub is 2003 and I wondered how long the board and other parts (heater and ozone) would last. All of those parts are still original in my tub. Nothing I hate worse than working on this thing in the freeze cold temps.

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Wuice,

If you have a swollen capacitors do you just replace the capacitors or do you recommend a new board? I realize they are soldered to the board however that's not that difficult if you know what you're doing or have friends that do and can find the parts.

My tub is 2003 and I wondered how long the board and other parts (heater and ozone) would last. All of those parts are still original in my tub. Nothing I hate worse than working on this thing in the freeze cold temps.

You nailed it, if you find someone who is good at that kinda stuff it's pretty easy part to find/replace, just remember it's easy to heat damage some of the components near there. As a business we always recommend replace the whole board, but in a couple friends tubs that i can see the bad capacitors i've had great luck just replacing them. We have a local electronics store that's kinda like radio shack used to be, like they keep many sizes capacitors in stock.

There's no way to guess a components life, there are just too many environmental factors; temp, moisture, water chemistry, electrical quality, etc. Pumps often you can hear going out (getting louder, slower starting), but not always.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just went through this with my 2007 Marin that I had just bought so the warranty was cancelled!!!

Took out the circuit board and found an electronics repair shop that replaced four capacitors (including the two large ones) for $30. What a deal. I was quoted $800 for the new upgraded board.

I must say my current confidence in Sundance quality is shaken as I feel thay are using lowest cost components.

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Just went through this with my 2007 Marin that I had just bought so the warranty was cancelled!!!

Took out the circuit board and found an electronics repair shop that replaced four capacitors (including the two large ones) for $30. What a deal. I was quoted $800 for the new upgraded board.

I must say my current confidence in Sundance quality is shaken as I feel thay are using lowest cost components.

To defend them a little bit.

One of my main hobbies is computer building and repair, I have about 10 people i have built computers for in the few years, and many for myself. Many of the the "top" brands in power supplies and motherboards suffered from the exact same problem (asus and abit boards i have personally replaced with this problem). Not to mention the piece of trash dells and hps. I highly doubt that sundance had much control or say over where the capacitors came from for the board they were having manufactured for them (although i bet they do now). After all that's gotta be a reason there's a wikipedia entry focused on the subject.

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Thanks again to wuice and others who have posted on the topic. All of the info is extremely helpful, especially with all of of wuice's experience and knowledge! We really appreciate it!

Unfortunately, our hot tub project has been on hold for a few weeks due to the busy holidays and having to go out of town to visit family, etc. So, it's still sitting empty for the moment but hope to tackle the project again in the next few weeks.

Thanks again to all and I hope everyone had a great holiday! We'll be back in touch again soon!:)

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  • 4 years later...

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