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Do I Need Chemicals In A Toy Pool?


4lex
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Hello. Have just installed a paddling pool to drink beer in over the southern hemishere summer. It holds about three and a half tons of water and has a pump that will run a third of that per hour.

I have no chemicals in it currently. I'm not overly concerned about longeivity of the pool or pump, it's getting thrown out in a month.

I was thinking of just chucking in a couple of kilogrammes of salt and leaving the pump running 24/7, hopefully to keep the mozzies out.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Alex

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Here are some good posts to help you understand some of the basics.

Nitro's approach to Water Maintenance

Dichlor/bleach Method In A Nutshell

Chlorine Demand

I know that it can seem like a lot to learn and do for a small pool. However, the size does not change the basics of good water maintenance.

At a minimum, you need to maintain a consistent chlorine level of about 2 to 4 ppm and a pH between 7.2 and 7.9. You can use regular, unscented bleach for chlorine and muriatic acid to lower pH as needed.

You can use the pool calculator to calculate the amounts of chemicals to add to change a chemical level.

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So you tell him to pour over almost 7 pages of that, just to find out he needs about a mouthful of Cl???

unbelievable...

Since you will be throwing this pool away in about a month, putting 1 maybe 2 Fl. Oz of liquid Cl should do it.

This is a kiddie pool, not rocket science!

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If exposed to sunlight, even daily chlorine addition won't be enough if there isn't any Cyanuric Acid (CYA) in the water since the FC can drop by half near noontime every half-hour in a shallow pool (or an hour in a normal depth pool). So he either needs to add a small amount of CYA (stabilizer/conditioner) of needs to use Dichlor initially for a week or two and then switch to using bleach (or chlorinating liquid). I think that's why QCD referenced the Dichlor/bleach method, though just the short-version would be enough for such a basic use.

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If it's just literally one month of use before the pool is thrown out (as indicated in the first post), then just get the smallest amount of Dichlor and use that every day. Or if he doesn't want to add chlorine every day he could just use one Trichlor tab in a floating feeder set to an incredibly low setting (i.e. would have to shut some holes) which could last a month though I think that's riskier since feeders aren't designed for this kind of slow flow (he'd also need to add some baking soda or washing soda periodically). In one month, there won't be enough build up of CYA to worry about. How's that sound?

3.5 tons of water is 7000 pounds (assuming short tons) which is 840 gallons. If he used 2 ppm FC per day then over one month that would be less than 1 gallon of 6% bleach (around 5 gallons of 12.5% chlorinating liquid) or 12 ounces weight of dichlor or around 1 3" Trichlor tablet (assuming 8-ounces each). One can buy 2 pounds of chlorinating granules for spas (which is just Dichlor) for around $12. Though the bleach is certainly cheaper, there has to be some CYA in the water to keep the chlorine around in sunlight so it seems to me the Dichlor added every day or two would be the easiest and still fairly inexpensive. What do you think?

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3.5 tons of water is 7000 pounds (assuming short tons) which is 840 gallons.

I would assume it's metric tons (since the OP talked about "just chucking in a couple of kilogrammes of salt...") which would make it closer to 925 gallons.

Certainly nothing wrong with using just dichlor if it is just for a month but daily addition of liquid chlorine should be fine, IMHO. If the pool is to be set up for more than a month then it certainly would need more attention than either of these alone.

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I was just giving the OP a quicker, easier choice other than the absurdity of having to read all that, just to find out he will need very little chems to accomplish what he is trying to do.

I still think that a gal of bleach is the cheapest way to go. What you don't use, you can use in the laundry.

The least amount of powder or tabs you can buy is what, 5 pounds? Not sure that he would use 5 pounds of that in a month, then he's got the rest of it kicking around in the garage. Not the best advice, realistically, yes?

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I saw chlorinating granules for $12 for 2 pounds which is twice as much as needed for a month (assuming 2 ppm FC).

I'm still not clear on how using bleach or chlorinating liquid without CYA in the water is going to last all day when exposed to sunlight. The bleach is certainly cheaper, I definitely agree with that.

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I'm still not clear on how using bleach or chlorinating liquid without CYA in the water is going to last all day when exposed to sunlight.

It won't but if he adds is daily BEFORE he goes in he should be fine for a month. If he doesn't he can end up with a green pool quickly. At any rate, I think the point is moot since the OP has not posted back. I think he was scared away by too much unneeded info at once when he just asked a simple question of how much chlorine should he put in. If that were answered I believe he would have been more receptive to listening to advice on pitfalls to watch out for and the pros and cons of different types of chlorine.

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I referred him to the more complete chemistry information. However, I also gave him a simple answer:

At a minimum, you need to maintain a consistent chlorine level of about 2 to 4 ppm and a pH between 7.2 and 7.9. You can use regular, unscented bleach for chlorine and muriatic acid to lower pH as needed.

You can use the pool calculator to calculate the amounts of chemicals to add to change a chemical level.

This way he can just use the simple answer to get started and achieve the minimum balance, and he can refer to the other information if he wants to. I told him where to keep the chlorine and pH, and I told him how to calculate how much chemicals to use.

He could have used my "At a minimum" answer to take care of the pool using bleach without referring to the other material. The pool calculator showed how much bleach to use to achieve the recommended level of 2 to 4 ppm, and what to use to adjust the pH if necessary.

I agree that dichlor would be a good solution. They could buy one pound of dichlor for about $ 5 to $ 7(1) (2) and would use about 13.5 ounces (weight).

Assuming 2 ppm chlorine per day (0.45 ounces (weight) per day), that would raise the cyanuric acid to about 54 ppm after 30 days. If the poster decided to continue to use the pool after the thirty days*, then they could switch to regular, unscented bleach or liquid chlorine.

I think that they could use bleach, dichlor or they could alternate between dichlor and bleach to help achieve a stable pH, using bleach when the pH was low and dichlor when it was high. A simple chlorine and pH test kit should be sufficient.

I will admit that my post was not perfect. I'm sure that I could have written a better post if I had more time to write a detailed step-by-step guide providing exact instructions for testing and adding chemicals. I try to provide the best advice I can in a limited amount of time.

I recognize that it is a "toy" pool that would only be used for a short period of time, that's why I gave the "At a minimum" answer. Even though this is a "toy", there are certain basics that need to be followed to ensure a safe and sanitary environment for those who will use the pool.

Part of the way a forum works is by multiple people providing answers that work together that address errors or weakness in previous posts to hopefully end up with a solid solution. It should be a collaborative effort. I think that is evident in this case where there were solutions posted and debated ending up with a better answer than any one person would have come up with alone.

______________________________________________________________

*Although they say, "it's getting thrown out in a month", they also say that they want to use the pool for the "summer", which implies more than a month.

Note: The poster says that the volume is 3.5 kiloliters, which is equal to 3.5 metric tons or 925 gallons (as waterbear noted).

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At any rate, I think the point is moot since the OP has not posted back. I think he was scared away by too much unneeded info at once when he just asked a simple question of how much chlorine should he put in. If that were answered I believe he would have been more receptive to listening to advice on pitfalls to watch out for and the pros and cons of different types of chlorine.

I did provide information about how much chlorine to add. There is no reason to believe that the OP was scared away. Perhaps the OP has not posted back because they have been given enough information and don't need any further assistance. They didn't have any trouble asking follow-up questions when they wanted more information.

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I referred him to the more complete chemistry information. However, I also gave him a simple answer:

At a minimum, you need to maintain a consistent chlorine level of about 2 to 4 ppm and a pH between 7.2 and 7.9. You can use regular, unscented bleach for chlorine and muriatic acid to lower pH as needed.

You can use the pool calculator to calculate the amounts of chemicals to add to change a chemical level.

This way he can just use the simple answer to get started and achieve the minimum balance, and he can refer to the other information if he wants to. I told him where to keep the chlorine and pH, and I told him how to calculate how much chemicals to use. But you didn't tell him how much, thats all he really wanted to know .

He could have used my "At a minimum" answer to take care of the pool using bleach without referring to the other material. The pool calculator showed how much bleach to use to achieve the recommended level of 2 to 4 ppm, and what to use to adjust the pH if necessary.

I agree that dichlor would be a good solution. They could buy one pound of dichlor for about $ 5 to $ 7(1) (2) and would use about 13.5 ounces (weight).

Assuming 2 ppm chlorine per day (0.45 ounces (weight) per day), that would raise the cyanuric acid to about 54 ppm after 30 days. If the poster decided to continue to use the pool after the thirty days*, then they could switch to regular, unscented bleach or liquid chlorine.

I think that they could use bleach, dichlor or they could alternate between dichlor and bleach to help achieve a stable pH, using bleach when the pH was low and dichlor when it was high. Look, this guy just wants to get in this thing and drink beer, do you really think he's going to stand there and try to remember all these cocktails you are prescribing? A simple chlorine and pH test kit should be sufficient.

I will admit that my post was not perfect. I'm sure that I could have written a better post if I had more time to write a detailed step-by-step guide providing exact instructions for testing and adding chemicals. My GOD! MORE detailed? You're messing with me, right? I try to provide the best advice I can in a limited amount of time.

I recognize that it is a "toy" pool that would only be used for a short period of time, that's why I gave the "At a minimum" answer. Even though this is a "toy", there are certain basics that need to be followed to ensure a safe and sanitary environment for those who will use the pool.

Part of the way a forum works is by multiple people providing answers that work together that address errors or weakness in previous posts to hopefully end up with a solid solution. Thank you, i needed to know how a forum works. It should be a collaborative effort. I think that is evident in this case where there were solutions posted and debated ending up with a better answer than any one person would have come up with alone.

______________________________________________________________

*Although they say, "it's getting thrown out in a month", they also say that they want to use the pool for the "summer", which implies more than a month.

Note: The poster says that the volume is 3.5 kiloliters, which is equal to 3.5 metric tons or 925 gallons (as waterbear noted).

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But you didn't tell him how much, thats all he really wanted to know .

I did tell him how much to use. The amount to add depends on the chlorine level. I told him where to keep the levels and to use the pool calculator to determine how much to use.

Look, this guy just wants to get in this thing and drink beer, do you really think he's going to stand there and try to remember all these cocktails you are prescribing?

You're the only one referring to "cocktails". You don't know who will be using this pool. Perhaps children will be using it. It needs to be properly maintained to be safe and sanitary.

My GOD! MORE detailed? You're messing with me, right?

No, it could be made clearer by providing step-by-step directions.

There was nothing wrong with any of my posts, and there was no run around. I do not need you apologizing for my posts.

If you think that you can post better advice, then you should do so.

Your advice to add "1 maybe 2 Fl. Oz of liquid Cl" really does not help very much. How often should he add this amount of chlorine? What about pH?

So you tell him to pour over almost 7 pages of that, just to find out he needs about a mouthful of Cl???

Why are you measuring chlorine in "mouthfuls"? What kind of nonsense is that? Is that how you measure chlorine? Is that how you tell your customers to measure chlorine? What is the conversion factor to fluid ounces or milliliters?

Your post comes across as nothing more than a petty attack for no legitimate reason.

Thank you, i needed to know how a forum works.

You're welcome.

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But you didn't tell him how much, thats all he really wanted to know .

I did tell him how much to use. The amount to add depends on the chlorine level. You mean the existing level? I think it's safe to say there is none, since he came here asking what to put in. I told him where to keep the levels and to use the pool calculator to determine how much to use.

Look, this guy just wants to get in this thing and drink beer, do you really think he's going to stand there and try to remember all these cocktails you are prescribing?

You're the only one referring to "cocktails". It's a figure of speech, as in the ridiculus amount of switching between this chem then use that chem that you suggest. You don't know who will be using this pool. Perhaps children will be using it. It needs to be properly maintained to be safe and sanitary.

My GOD! MORE detailed? You're messing with me, right?

No, it could be made clearer by providing step-by-step directions. Unbelieveable, let me get this strait. If you had more time, you would have given him more than the 7 pages you initially gave him to look at?

There was nothing wrong with any of my posts, and there was no run around. I disagree. I do not need you apologizing for my posts. You don't need to, just admit it when you choke someone with a ridiculus amount of reading.

If you think that you can post better advice, then you should do so. I did, and i do.

Your advice to add "1 maybe 2 Fl. Oz of liquid Cl" really does not help very much. How often should he add this amount of chlorine? What about pH? If you read all the posts in this thread, you would see that this was covered. And what about the Ph? If the Ph wasn't adjusted in one month, what could possibly happen in a month that throwing out the pool and pump wouldn't fix? High Ph? A little scaling, maybe. Low Ph? i don't think it comes out of the tap that way, and again, i don't think he had put any acid in to begin with.

So you tell him to pour over almost 7 pages of that, just to find out he needs about a mouthful of Cl???

Why are you measuring chlorine in "mouthfuls"? What kind of nonsense is that? Is that how you measure chlorine? Is that how you tell your customers to measure chlorine? What is the conversion factor to fluid ounces or milliliters? It was obviously a figure of speech.

Your post comes across as nothing more than a petty attack for no legitimate reason. And ALL your posts come across as a chemist, in a lab, with a internet connection, and no real practical experience in the pool industry.

Thank you, i needed to know how a forum works.

You're welcome. You don't even know when your'e being clowned.

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You mean the existing level? I think it's safe to say there is none, since he came here asking what to put in.

Then he would put 0 in the starting box and 4 in the end box in the pool calculator to determine how much chlorine to use. Either way, he measures the amount using the test kit and uses the pool calculator to determine the amount of dichlor or bleach to use. I'm not sure why this seems to confuse you so much.

Unbelieveable, let me get this strait. If you had more time, you would have given him more than the 7 pages you initially gave him to look at?

NO, it's not about amount; it's about clarity and specificity.

And ALL your posts come across as a chemist, in a lab, with a internet connection, and no real practical experience in the pool industry.

Probably more on the job time in all phases and all types of pools than you.

The OP obviously has an interest in keeping his pool safe and sanitary; otherwise, he would not have posted in the first place. He has invested time and money acquiring and installing the pool. Is it really too much to expect that he learn a few basics of chemistry since that is going to make a huge difference in his and possibly his family's ability to enjoy it? Since he has only a short amount of time to enjoy the pool, any downtime due to nasty water would seriously diminish the value he hopes to get from it.

As far as throwing it away in a month, perhaps he will and perhaps he won't. That might be the plan, but plans have a way of changing. Summer in Australia is December, January and February; so it's likely that the pool will be used for more than one month. Either way, I gave him a simple solution and I referred to more complete information should he wish to explore the subject further.

For someone who's supposed to be a professional, you sure do seem to have a cavalier attitude about the users' health and safety. So far, you haven't contributed much to this thread other than to attempt to criticize my efforts to help the OP. As I said before, if you think that you can give worthwhile advice, then you should do so, or maybe not.

i fell asleep during chemistry. Don't trust me with the water.

You don't even know when your'e being clowned.

Trust me; I know who the clown is.

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Like i said before, You would make a great politician. Never admit any wrong doing, and your way is the best, and only way.

Really?

I will admit that my post was not perfect. I'm sure that I could have written a better post

It should be a collaborative effort. I think that is evident in this case where there were solutions posted and debated ending up with a better answer than any one person would have come up with alone.

In this thread, I admit that I could have done better and I encourage others, including you, to contribute.

In addition, what do you have against politicians? The vast majority are honest, hardworking decent human beings who are doing their best to improve everyone's life to the best of their ability. Perhaps you should have a little more respect and appreciation for the people who work so hard to provide you with the infrastructure you need to live a free and happy life instead of complaining so much.

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Like i said before, You would make a great politician. Never admit any wrong doing, and your way is the best, and only way.

Really? Yes, really. I wouldn't have said it if i didn't believe it.

I will admit that my post was not perfect. I'm sure that I could have written a better post Then why didn't you? What was the rush to post? To just get your post count up? If you think more time would help you, then take it, this isn't a race to get your idea in first. Take your time, and get down what you mean.

It should be a collaborative effort. I think that is evident in this case where there were solutions posted and debated ending up with a better answer than any one person would have come up with alone.

In this thread, I admit that I could have done better and I encourage others, including you, to contribute. It's hard to be collaborative when on one side, there is a urgency to have the poster learn water chemistry from the ground up. and on the other is trying to give a simplified solution. When both sides push just as hard, how do you come to a compromise?

In addition, what do you have against politicians? The vast majority are honest, hardworking decent human beings who are doing their best to improve everyone's life to the best of their ability. We just disagree there. Perhaps you should have a little more respect and appreciation for the people who work so hard to provide you with the infrastructure you need to live a free and happy life instead of complaining so much. Who's complaining? I'm just stating fact. Also, you don't know what you're talking about. Doing their best? Of their ability? We are living off the infrastructure that was put in place decades ago. And it's falling apart! Because there is no money to fix it. You should turn off the computer, and pick up a news paper or turn on the television once in a while. If they are so "hard working" and wanting to improve my life, They would pass a tax bill, rather than delay it only to keep the tax cuts for the wealthy, but thats not happening. However this is not the correct forum for that, so thats all i have to say, and respond to, about that(way off topic).

"i fell asleep during chemistry. Don't trust me with the water."

I'm glad you dug this up. This will show you that, when i try to answer a post that i am not as versed in as say chem geek, I'm the first to admit it, and i'm not afraid to say so. You on the other hand, will, IMO, bluff with links, and cut and paste. Maybe try answering more posts without doing that, more personal experience. Sometimes it appears that you are just trying to get rid of them by sending them off to a link. Just explain your solution to them in your own words, not owners manual lingo.

This isn't a slight on you, just an observation of how your posts appear sometimes.

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