Costco Legend Elite Spa

[New NW tub owner]

The PE2 uses about 10 to 15 kwh per month with normal usage. That means that if your electrical costs are $0.08 per kwn, your monthly cost would be about $24 to $36 and if your electrical cost is $0.30 per kwh your monthly cost would be $90 to $135 per month but it's not the hot tub's fault if someone has expensive elecrical power costs. Also, the people who say 'my xxx-brand-name tub costs only $5 per month to operate' are either lying like a rug or their tub is drained and powered down (which will certainly reduce operating costs.)

Finally, how much the tub is USED has a big effect on operating costs. Say you use your tub for one hour a day during cold weather with the cover off and two 3 hp jet pumps running. You will use 6-8 kwh during just that one hour of use. Multiply that by 30 days a month and you are using 180 to 240 kwh just for that one hour of use every day which would cost you $54 to $72 for the month just for that usage, and it doesn't matter how good the insulation is. We love our hot tub but they are a luxury and they do cost something to use and that's all there is to it, (except to say that Costco sells a mighty fine tub.) The costco tubs use about the same amount of power as other major brands.

Corrections to the above...

I meant to say: "The PE2 uses about 10 to 15 kwh per DAY with normal usage..."

and: "...and you are using 180 to 240 kwh just for that one hour of use every day which would cost you $54 to $72 for the month [at $0.30 per kwh and $14 to $19 for the month at $0.08 per kwh] just for that usage, and it doesn't matter how good the insulation is [because that power usage is to run the jet pumps and the heater while the cover is off.]

[jmendoza17]

If someone says their Honda Civic gets only 15 mpg, wouldn't you have some questions....like...is there a hole in the gas tank? That's the same suspicion I have when someone says their Costco hot tub uses a ridiculous amount of power. It is simply not possible unless they are leaving the cover off and they are using it for 10 hours a day or the tub is malfunctioning in some way.

No one said anything about Honda Civics. The question posed to you was "why does your personal experience give you the authority to pronounce as invalid or innaccurate the experience of others. Unless you have research to prove your point, your opinion is has no more merit than anyone else's. There are many here who have spoken about their positive experiences with the Hydrospa unit and others who have had negative experiences. Both are valid. My experience is that --as you have done here -- you regularly avoid the merits of an argument by either diverting from the point or by attacking the person through innuendo or outright personal invective.

So, while you may find your hot tub just the peachiest keen in the history of all man, others have not. And getting back to the point, "why does your singular experience invalidate anyone else's?"

[Roger]

No one here can quantify there tubs monthly cost unless they have had it metered.

[soakerman]

No one here can quantify there tubs monthly cost unless they have had it metered.

Certainly not you! thanks for clarifying that and admitting you cant verify if it is or isn't a "energy hog"

[Roger]

Certainly not you! thanks for clarifying that and admitting you cant verify if it is or isn't a "energy hog"

But I have metered lots of tubs including mine and several Hydro units so I have a better handle on it than most, especialy you. Maybe that clarifys it for you. Please get yours metered so we can actualy see what your cost is instead of a shot in the dark.

[jmendoza17]

Certainly not you! thanks for clarifying that and admitting you cant verify if it is or isn't a "energy hog"

Verifying it with scientifc accuracy requires a specialized meter. Observing a spike in energy usage and noting increased costs justs takes a little bit oc comparison of electric bills. My personal experience is that the Hydrospa unit runs about $60 a month to operate. This in in California where rates are high, but it is definitely higher than the $1/day figure that the industry touts. I would have been better off with a more efficient unit.

[jwillard]

I shopped for months and not once was I touted with a $1 a day energy consumption from any of the sales people I spoke with, actually none of them would even give a range due to many factors. So you were touted by Costco when you purchased your tub that the operating cost were only $1 a day, or is it the "other" dealers who quoted you this and now you are holding hydrospa to someones elses standards? You would have been better off if you took the advice given on every post you put on here and just returned your tub and go buy a differant spa all together.

You know I can see where you like sharing your story but every post I read from you is negative. Have you every rolled your butt out of bed and tried to look for something positive to say? just curious

[jmendoza17]

The places that I shopped were very open about the variabilty of costs and knew that I wanted a relatively economical tub. The $1/day figure was given as a point of reference. Hotspring Spas makes energy efficiecny a big part of theri sales pitch amd has an energy calculator on their website that sets up some cost scenarios. They state their spas can cost as little as $8/Mo to operate under the stated conditions-- http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_...ciency.html#top.

As for what you think of me and your judgement of my attitudes, I suggest you stick with arguing about facts and avoid little cheap shots. Remember, I have as much right to post my opinion and experience as you do. And whether you or the NW like it or not, my experience and opinions are just as valid as yours. Good luck with your spa. I hope it does not trouble you or cost you as much as mine has.

[jwillard]

Wanting an economical appliance or whatever is relative....to how you use that said product. They say a car gets X mileage a gallon....but it really all depends on your driving habits. Sitting in your unit and using it is all relative to your electric bill. I use mine every night and I can tell you this....there is no way this unit uses $400 a month of electricity and any who claims that this tub uses that much has lost their mind...unless of course its defective and if you still have it with the return policy outlined by costco then I cant help you...you already know what you need to do. I dont care how much trouble it was I would return the tub and move on...but not you! You would rather complain...why not go get another tub and share your new awesome experience than to just keep coming back to retaliate everyone else's experience with your experience, at what point does it get old?

Now, I could see if you had a brand new "different" tub and you had some positive to say about it and you still posted about costco and your experience but you dont....you still continue to lay in the mud and complain.

Ok, the fact is you complain too much....and that is fact!! Not an argument...more a observation!!!! I never said your experience wasnt valid and you couldnt post it...but **** I just cant understand why you continue your headache by holding onto a unit you have had tremendous issues with. My tub will add years to my life...at the rate yours is going you are subtracting years from yours! When are you going to do something about it???

[jmendoza17]

I appreciate Willard's concern for me. I actually am enjoying the tub now, but it took way too much effort on my part as a consumer to get satisfactory service from Hydrospa. Based on their initial responses --or non-responses-- I might never have gotten anything from Hydrospa if if I hadn't pressed Costco to get involved. So based on my personal experience, I assume this is the way Hydrospa treats non-Costco owners --other consumers. So when I read about some Costco Gang or see the general unabashed hyping of the Hydrospa tubs, I feel the need to balance the hype. Consider it my civic duty. Good luck with your spa.

[New NW tub owner]

From: 'jmendoza17' date='May 27 2007, 02:04 PM' post='27192 "I actually am enjoying the tub now, but it took way too much effort on my part as a consumer to get satisfactory service from Hydrospa. "

You spent a lot of your 'effort' posting here about your unhappiness. Your theory seemed to be that the manufacturer would read about your unhappiness here and would immediately contact you and get the repair done so that no one would say any unkind things about their tubs in a forum like this. The problem with your theory was that no one from the manufacturer was assigned to read this particular forum, apparently , identify you as a customer, and track you down to get your problems fixed so... your numerous and detailed crys of pain went unheard...for months. I imagine that eventually you realized that Plan A wasn't working and switched to Plan B, the 'Costco Connection' where you marched into your local costco and unloaded on some hapless person there who then suggested calling the number in the manual, no doubt, and...voila! A good? soak was finally yours as well. Which goes to show that even non-linear methods eventually work.

[jmendoza17]

How do you know that manufacturers assign anyone to read particular forums? I suspected from the outset that you were something other than a new owner. Dont' let that go to your head though. Whatever or whoever you are, you have a somewhat active --although not very clever-- imagination NW. Alas, as usual you are wrong. I had no nefarious plot to blackmail poor little Hydrospa. However, your slanderous innuendo about my motives gives me a good reason to repost the tale about my experience.

As I have said from the outset, the problem was not with me. I am --unlike you-- an ordinary consumer. The problem I had was that I paid $4K of MY hard-earned cash for a defective spa and then had to work REALLY HARD to get the manufacturer off their duff to get it fixed and working properly. I don't need to rip people off. I just HATE being RIPPED OFF. With that said, I think the forum should ban you and your insulting personal slander. Enjoy your spa NW

Oh , by the way. If the manufacturer was really smart, they might have read this forum and contacted me right away and offered to fix the problem. The sad fact is that they never called until after I called repeatedly and often just to get them to respond. I think they have trouble calling each other across the hallway, let alone making preemptive customer service calls. Now I could care less what you --I mean they-- do, because I am a consumer spurned.

[jwillard]

I wouldnt expect any manufacturer to read a forum and be proactive in contacting people with issues...thats absurd. I have called Hydrospa on several occassions and my call was answered with little wait time each time and everyone I have dealt with there has always been above and beyond with me.

Not trying to discount your experience but it just makes me wonder how our experiences can be so completely different. Not in the fact that you have a defective tub but I am speaking of your experience with their staff at Hydrospa. You say they never called...how were they suppose to call...did you call after hours and leave a message and then expect them to call you back??

[jmendoza17]

'jwillard' date='Jun 1 2007, 02:52 PM' post='27604'] I wouldnt expect any manufacturer to read a forum and be proactive in contacting people with issues...thats absurd. Not trying to discount your experience but it just makes me wonder how our experiences can be so completely different. ...I am speaking of your experience with their staff at Hydrospa. back??/color]

When I said they never called, I was responding to the the nitwit's assertion that I was trying to extort something from Hydrospa by complaining on this forum. An accusation as patently offensive as it is false. I too would not expect any manufacturer to read forums as a way to initiate customer service responses. My actual experience with Hydrospa customer service (chuckle) is another matter. If you want to know about it, just read on.

To keep things short, let me summarize my experience with their so-called customer service by saying that my initial calls to Hydrospa can be described as misdiagnosis, denial and blame. From day one, my spa's pumps surged and heaved uncontrollably then locked up. This happened almost every time we tried to use the spa and was very frustrating and disappointing. After I finally got Hydrospa on the phone, the tech misdiagnosed the issue and told me I had air in the lines and should bleed the lines -- a painfully difficult prospect considering that the problem we had was occuring almost daily and the spa was new. The second time I called and got in touch, the tech denied there was an ongoing problem and again said I should bleed the lines. As I recall, it was also on that occasion that the tech got snippy and tried to blame me for causing "the problem," one which later turned out to be a recognized defect in the controllers.

After Costco got involved, one Hydropsa guy finally told me they knew there was a recurring problem with a controller on some of the PEII units that caused pumps to surge, heave and lockup the system. Eventually our controller was replaced twice and the circulation pump as well. As a cash-paying consumer, they NEVER should have tried to blame me for the lockup problems and they should have simply admitted there was an issue and just fixed the thing right away. I firmly believe that if I was a timid person, had been less assertive or had not proactively engaged Costco, Hydrospa might never have fixed the thing at all. From the way they behaved, I don't think they initially recognized I was a Costco buyer and thus tried to blow me off. From what I observed, it was Costco's muscle that caused Hydrospa to act, not the company's knowledge that one of their paying customers had a defective unit. I call that lousy customer relations and a crummy way to do business.

When I first started posting NW was among a small minority that dismissed my complaints as user error or my inventions. Along the way he has continued to be dismissively arrogant, accusatory --as he was in the earlier post-- and generally not nice. I am glad that your $3999 Costco spas work like they are supposed to, and equally happy for the enjoyment you derive. My PEII works fine now, but I decidedly remain one who is not a Hydrospa fan.

[New NW tub owner]

quote name='jmendoza17' date='Jun 1 2007, 11:32 PM' post='27627'

When I first started posting NW was among a small minority that dismissed my complaints as user error or my inventions.

That is a false statement, Jmendoza. I was actually the first person to tell you exactly what was wrong and how to fix it. The manufacturer didn't know what was wrong, either, when you first complained because they probably had not seen the problem occur before and it was a subtle problem with the digital controls made by their (widely-used and well-respected) supplier (Balboa) rather than a problem with something they had made. As far as I can see, every company involved has stepped up to the line and honored their committments and made everything right, even for people such as yourself. You would have undoubtedly gotten your problem fixed a lot quicker if you had been patient and polite with the people who were diligently attempting to figure out what was wrong and assumed that they were good guys until proven otherwise instead of assuming that they were out to pick your pocket.

[jmendoza17]

You are wrong in just about everything in your post.

First, my statement is not false. You have been dismissive and derogatory as you are in this recent bit of semi-slanderous misinformation. Or what exactly do you mean by “people such as yourself?†And how the heck do you know what the manufacturer knows and when they know it. And how do you know people were diligently trying to work on my problem. Heck, they didn’t even acknowledge me as a customer until after I had called numerous times.

Second, you were NOT the first to diagnose my problem it was actually Hydrospa that eventually figured it out –or admitted the situation they knew existed. (There are at least three posts on this forum describing the exact problem I had.) Again, contrary to your assertion, YOU had NOTHING to do with diagnosis. Below in red is your first reply to my original post last year. In it, you are TOTALLY wrong in your assessment.

quote name='New NW tub owner' date='Aug 18 2006, 03:20 PM' post='11389'"The hot tub has a temperature sensor that is supposed to detect icing conditions and turn on the pumps and the blower automatically.... My guess is that your temperature sensor is not working correctly and the control thinks your temperature is too low.

Your second reply to my post was equally off target in the diagnosis: quote name='New NW tub owner' date='Aug 18 2006, 03:31 PM' post='11392'] According to the manual, you are supposed to fill the spa by adding water to the filter housing to purge trapped air from the pump intakes.

Your third post was dismissive and your sarcastic use of the word allegedly was offensive. Particularly since my reason for posting was to seek advice on how to deal with a spa problem.

quote name='New NW tub owner' date='Nov 5 2006, 10:12 PM' post='15529'] You have been posting about your broken down tub since about a week after you allegedly bought it, although it must have run just long enough for you to allegedly discover that it used $400 of electricity in a month as you posted in this thread back in July. And since then, you have been posting about your alleged plans to return the tub for almost that long.

Third, your assertion that I that was either impatient or impolite with people at Hydrospa in not only conjecture –unless you were on the phone listening to my conversations-- it is also once again dismissive, derogatory and offensive. Contrary to your charge that I was less than patient, I have been very patient in trying to get the thing fixed, and polite with the people I talk to.

Finally, your claim that I assumed anyone was out to pick my pocket is a straw man that wrongly points a finger at me. Remember, I may be a whiner, but I am also an honest consumer who in earnest paid the full price for the product I purchased. When the spa was unsatisfactory in its performance and I got the impression the manufacturer was blowing me off, I had plenty of reasons to feel ripped off.

I have noticed that throughout the time I have posted, you have:

--defended the manufacturer way too much

--proffered information that only an industry insider would know, while claiming to be a new spa owner

--Dogged my posts and attacked my experience

My guess is that you work for the manufacturer or Costco. If you do, you're not being very smart because one sure way to fuel a fire is to keep throwing logs on it. I'm just a guy who bought a bad spa and wanted it fixed. I have received much good advice from others on this forum, but mostly gotten grief from you. And being the burned consumer, I am more than happy to tell the tale about my bad experience.

If you don't work for Costco or Hydrospa and you're just some kind of bombastic cheerleader, do them a favor and go away. Your killing their PR by attacking me in print.

[New NW tub owner]

quote name='jmendoza17' date='Jun 5 2007, 12:35 AM' post='27826'

Second, you were NOT the first to diagnose my problem it was actually Hydrospa that eventually figured it out –or admitted the situation they knew existed.

I figured your problem out (after coaxing the symptoms out of you in the "Problem With Platinum Elite Ii Ozonator" thread) and posted a workaround here on November 3, 2006. I tested it on my identical-model hot tub and then I emailed it to the manufacturer. But no, I don't work for Balboa, Hydro, or Costco or anyone else in the hot tub business as I've told you at least a few times. I'm just interested in the tubs because I bought one (and really enjoy it, although not as much now as when the weater was colder.) As far as the 'replys' you quoted, the first one was actually written to a nice lady here who was having a problem with the 'ice' detection. Not that anyone here cares, though. Anyway, jmendoza, I'm glad your tub is working for the moment, anyway, and I hope you have a nice day.

[flibotte]

"Anyway, jmendoza, I'm glad your tub is working for the moment, anyway, and I hope you have a nice day."

Sounds like a good place to end this thread.

The End????????

And they walked happily into the sunset?????

The dead horse is ummm dead?

Agree to disagree?

[stomper4x4]

Fat lady singing?

[jmendoza17]

name='New NW tub owner' date='Jun 5 2007, 08:58 AM' post='27865'] I figured your problem out (after coaxing the symptoms out of you in the "Problem With Platinum Elite Ii Ozonator" thread) and posted a workaround here on November 3, 2006.

Nice try. You're even getting a bit inventive, but you are imagining yourself to be better than you are. You did not solve anything. The actual problem with my spa was a not the controller itself, but the a defective or poorly placed seal on the underside the oval keypad. It leaked and allowed water to run right down the flat cable and then corroded the circuitry in the controller. The first fix Hydrospa tried was to have the tech add an extra bead of silicone to the base. This failed and the unit leaked again. The next fix for me was an upgraded system that is being installed on the 2007 tubs.

Below is the post where you dismiss the suggestion that water could leak in through the keypad and blow off my complaint about a defective footjet by asserting that I simply had it turned off. In fact, the tech had to blow out some kind of factory-originated clog from the jet to get it working. Do yourself a favor and go away. And take your friends along with you.

[ quote name='jmendoza17' date='Jan 31 2007, 09:57 PM' post='19629] This issue I am referring to is not with the membrane on the button, but with the foam-like seal on the Balboa-made topside control panel. I have had problems with defective seals in the adhesive layer where it meets the deck. The panel sits into an oval cutout on top of the deck and when the seal fails, water runs into the spa down the wire and eventually corrodes the controller board. It is a known issue and even the Hydrospa people recommended adding silicone sealant around the pad. This is also why the repair tech is instructed by Hydrospa to add sealant around the pad when they replace it. They have replaced mine twice under warranty and, hopefully, they won't need to do it again.Now if they'll only fix the footjets that don't work, I'll be happy as a NW clam.

quote name='New NW tub owner' date='Feb 1 2007, 09:09 AM' post='19647'] I think the 'known issue' is with a poorly-installed replacement topside control panel seal by a sloppy tech. The original factory-installed seal looks like it will last for the life of the tub in my case. Even if the seal were completely missing, though, I don't see why there would be any significant amount of water dripping through. The panel is covered by the cover so rain exposure would not be there and it is above the water line by several inches so tub water will not reach it other than by splashes. The only water that could drip would be from condensation from the cover above and I wouldn't expect that to be very much if any. The footjets are just nozzles connected to the jet pump with tubing. I am sure your nozzles are connected or you would notice water spraying all over and your jet pump is obviously pumping or you would have noticed that so the only problem on your footjets is with the footjet itself which is probably just turned off. .

[soakerman]

where did the fat lady go? I could have swore she was singing!

[Richs100]

soakerman said:

where did the fat lady go? I could have swore she was singing!

She drowned in a costco hot tub.

[New NW tub owner]

quote name='soakerman' date='Jun 6 2007, 09:35 AM' post='27996'

where did the fat lady go? I could have swore she was singing!

I guess that only I can hear her. The words sound something like: 'I-I-I-I l-o-o v-v-v-v e m-y t-u-b-b-b-b....

[Roger]

The words sound something like: 'I-I-I-I l-o-o v-v-v-v e m-y t-u-b-b-b-b....

And that is what is important NW, but please stop comparing it to a 8-10 thousand dollar tub because it is NOT the same.