Hot Springs, Arctic And Pricing

[Emmitt]

Hi - I am in the market for a Spa and have looked at HotSprings and Arctic brands. Each claims to have a salt based purification system which works well (of course!), so trying to size up pricing. Anyone have a good feel for pricing of a 2010 HotSprings Vanguard or Envoy with the new ACE system? on Arctic side - considering a Kodiak, so same question. thanks!

[Tubber McGee]

I would think a Vanguard with ACE, Upgraded steps, Cover lifter, and start up chemicals for around 10k out the door would be a real good price.

[Spa_Guru]

Just keep in mind those two brands are the most overpriced spas on the market, MSRP quoted will be at least double what the dealer paid for it.

IMHO, niether one is worth the money, nor are the salt systems as trouble free as claimed.

[Emmitt]

Just keep in mind those two brands are the most overpriced spas on the market, MSRP quoted will be at least double what the dealer paid for it.

IMHO, niether one is worth the money, nor are the salt systems as trouble free as claimed.

Thanks - I appreciate it. the salt systems sound hyped, for sure.

[Spa_Guru]

A salt system is just a chlorine generator, and for what they are asking for that option, you ever recouping the cost from chlorine isn't likely to happen for 50 years, Salt syatems are a "Selling tool" more than anything else, designed to appeal to either your desire for low maintainence, or having a chlorine-free tub, niether promise which is delivered on.

1) Spas will always need maintained, none of them "practically take care of themselves"

2) Something cannot be both "new" and time - proven for reliability.

3)Arctic is a very new company, less than 10 years old, and "wisdom" they offer is relative.

4)The hot springs manufactured today is only a shadow of what the reputation has been based on.

5)Both use 100% proprietary parts, post-warranty you will pay DEARLY for parts and service.

[Tubber McGee]

I actually had my ACE system thrown in the deal for free - and NO they did not just jack the price up to look like it was free! I have been looking at the pricing for a long time

As far as Spa Gurus comment "none of them practically take care of themselves". Please check out the Hot Spring ACE system, because besides adding salt every month or so and Shock - it does practically take care of itself!

Some posts you have to take with a grain of salt - ha! I would at least check out the ACE system at your dealer and let yourself decide - I have been very happy with mine!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Just keep in mind those two brands are the most overpriced spas on the market, MSRP quoted will be at least double what the dealer paid for it.

IMHO, niether one is worth the money, nor are the salt systems as trouble free as claimed.

Those are actually two good brands. If anyone wants to label them overpriced you can go ahead and lump in Jacuzzi, Sundance, D1, Marquis... as well (if we looked at dealer's invoices we'd probably say that about most every brand).

As far as the chlorine generator, its like it is with pools, you don't actually need them. They're for people who like "plug n play" and are willing to pay for the convenience. Go with the chlorine generator if you don't mind the added up front cost and want that feature, otherwise just go with a simple chlorine routine.

[Spa_Guru]

I actually had my ACE system thrown in the deal for free - and NO they did not just jack the price up to look like it was free! I have been looking at the pricing for a long time

As far as Spa Gurus comment "none of them practically take care of themselves". Please check out the Hot Spring ACE system, because besides adding salt every month or so and Shock - it does practically take care of itself!

Some posts you have to take with a grain of salt - ha! I would at least check out the ACE system at your dealer and let yourself decide - I have been very happy with mine!

Mgee, you have owned your "Takes care of itself" spa for about a week, and are already posting about foamy water etc in other threads..... I have been servicing spas for 25 years, and I have seen a dozen gimmicks come and go, this is just the latest one.

At least you didn't pay for it.

[Kalev]

A salt system is just a chlorine generator, and for what they are asking for that option, you ever recouping the cost from chlorine isn't likely to happen for 50 years, Salt syatems are a "Selling tool" more than anything else, designed to appeal to either your desire for low maintainence, or having a chlorine-free tub, niether promise which is delivered on.

1) Spas will always need maintained, none of them "practically take care of themselves"

2) Something cannot be both "new" and time - proven for reliability.

3)Arctic is a very new company, less than 10 years old, and "wisdom" they offer is relative.

4)The hot springs manufactured today is only a shadow of what the reputation has been based on.

5)Both use 100% proprietary parts, post-warranty you will pay DEARLY for parts and service.

Hi,

You touched on something I hadn't considered completely: post-warranty maintenance. In your opinion, which quality spa manufacturer would be the cheapest for post-warranty parts & service?

I'm currently in the market for tub, and am considering: Arctic, Beachcomber, Clearwater, HotSprings, Jacuzzi & Sundance.

Thanks!

Kalev

[Spa_Guru]

Hi,

You touched on something I hadn't considered completely: post-warranty maintenance. In your opinion, which quality spa manufacturer would be the cheapest for post-warranty parts & service?

I'm currently in the market for tub, and am considering: Arctic, Beachcomber, Clearwater, HotSprings, Jacuzzi & Sundance.

Thanks!

Kalev

Beachcomber, Clearwater, and Marquis spas use to a large degree generic parts, and of those three, the Marquis has the most rugged shell.

[Water Boy]

A salt system is just a chlorine generator, and for what they are asking for that option, you ever recouping the cost from chlorine isn't likely to happen for 50 years, Salt syatems are a "Selling tool" more than anything else, designed to appeal to either your desire for low maintainence, or having a chlorine-free tub, niether promise which is delivered on.

1) Spas will always need maintained, none of them "practically take care of themselves"

2) Something cannot be both "new" and time - proven for reliability.

3)Arctic is a very new company, less than 10 years old, and "wisdom" they offer is relative.

4)The hot springs manufactured today is only a shadow of what the reputation has been based on.

5)Both use 100% proprietary parts, post-warranty you will pay DEARLY for parts and service.

Not that it is a big deal, but you are wrong on point three. Arctic Spas was founded in 1994, which is far greater than, "less than ten years." Arctic Spas is acknowledged by most as one of the top brands in the industry, as is Hot Springs. You cant really go wrong with either one imo. I would wet test both and do your research on both local dealers as well.

[Tubber McGee]

Guru

Regarding the bubbles in the water: I have actually consulted with my dealer on this and have found out that the bubbles are common when you first fill the tub and add salt. They said it takes a week or so to break down the salt. Actually last night, I noticed the bubbles have gone away!

But, upon receiving my tub, I did have a small fitting (drain plus) that was leaking - probably something when it was being moved!

I was thinking I could just head down to the hardware store and find the fitting - nope! The service man informed that all fittings need to come thru hot springs! Really didnt like that answer!

[Spa_Guru]

Guru

Regarding the bubbles in the water: I have actually consulted with my dealer on this and have found out that the bubbles are common when you first fill the tub and add salt. They said it takes a week or so to break down the salt. Actually last night, I noticed the bubbles have gone away!

But, upon receiving my tub, I did have a small fitting (drain plus) that was leaking - probably something when it was being moved!

I was thinking I could just head down to the hardware store and find the fitting - nope! The service man informed that all fittings need to come thru hot springs! Really didnt like that answer!

Yes, 100% proprietary parts in Hot Springs, except for the hose sizes, with Arctic, even the hose size is proprietary.

The manufacturers do this so that dealers can be assured to always be the ones who profit off post-warranty repairs.... and you pay a serious premium over similar generic items.

Hot tubs are basically a box of water, and chasing water in circles while heating and filtering it is not rocket science, there is no other reason for most proprietary parts than to gouge the customer.

[Spa_Guru]

Not that it is a big deal, but you are wrong on point three. Arctic Spas was founded in 1994, which is far greater than, "less than ten years." Arctic Spas is acknowledged by most as one of the top brands in the industry, as is Hot Springs. You cant really go wrong with either one imo. I would wet test both and do your research on both local dealers as well.

They went in to business as "Blue Falls manufacturing" in 1994, they formed as Arctic in Thornsby a little less then 10 years ago.

http://www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/manufacturers-and-producers/arctic-spas-in-thorsby-ab-106215

[tylemandan]

"4)The hot springs manufactured today is only a shadow of what the reputation has been based on."

Spa_Guru,

What are you basing this opinion on? Just curious. Please back it up with some facts.

[THE SPA GUY]

Both tubs are good Brands 2 totally differet concepts of a build,,,,If you are looking at strictly a MSRP price most brands are going to be expensive, so i do not believe you can go by that, The quality of the tubs,Arctic,Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, Marquis, D1, CLearwater, Beachcomber, H20, roughly have the same shell warrantiesthere are a few differences i can go into and tell you everyones warranty on the shell, Marquis shell is the the most rugged....If it is more rugged then why not a longer warranty, do not get me wrong i am a fan of Marquis they are a good company,,,i do not understand the basis...Most spa companies use the same shells , Lucite and Arystech, D1 has the Ultralife shell by Bayer, etc.... Some companies use fiberglass backing and most have to use a bonding agent for them to adhere to the shell to prevent delamination, sone use a poly based system,, I myself have sold the salt generators, i am not a big fan, I believe that if anyone has the best grasp on this is the ACE system, I have had customers have issues with the salt generator, pump seals, heaters coroding, even had a shell turn black and had to be scrubbed with soft scrub, I think chlorine system is still easier, but that his my opinion....Generic parts- Some guys use there own stuff, some use gecko some use balboa, equipment, jets are mostly waterway with different variations, some use hydroair, pumps some use Aquaflo, Starite, Watereway, some use Out of country manufacturer. just like other industries use all sorts of parts....... i had to add some of this from what i was seeing.....hope this helps......

[Spa_Guru]

"4)The hot springs manufactured today is only a shadow of what the reputation has been based on."

Spa_Guru,

What are you basing this opinion on? Just curious. Please back it up with some facts.

My opinion is based on over 20 years worth of service calls, and a good chess playing buddy of mine is a Hot Springs technician, and has lamented this point to me many times, but really, just look thru the top 50 threads in this section, which brand of spa is everyone posting complaint threads about? 15 years ago Hot Springs were practically bullet proof.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

"4)The hot springs manufactured today is only a shadow of what the reputation has been based on."

Spa_Guru,

What are you basing this opinion on? Just curious. Please back it up with some facts.

My opinion is based on over 20 years worth of service calls, and a good chess playing buddy of mine is a Hot Springs technician, and has lamented this point to me many times, but really, just look thru the top 50 threads in this section, which brand of spa is everyone posting complaint threads about? 15 years ago Hot Springs were practically bullet proof.

The answer is simple...hundreds of thousands more tubs out here then most companies. There are more questions and problems because there are exponentially more tubs in service.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

"4)The hot springs manufactured today is only a shadow of what the reputation has been based on."

Spa_Guru,

What are you basing this opinion on? Just curious. Please back it up with some facts.

My opinion is based on over 20 years worth of service calls, and a good chess playing buddy of mine is a Hot Springs technician, and has lamented this point to me many times, but really, just look thru the top 50 threads in this section, which brand of spa is everyone posting complaint threads about? 15 years ago Hot Springs were practically bullet proof.

The answer is simple...hundreds of thousands more tubs out there then most companies. There are more questions and problems because there are exponentially more tubs in service.

Also, like other tub manufacturers from 15 years ago (there are not many left) most models had about 4-6 jets and a light. Not much to go wrong. As a spa guru wouldn't you say that spas made in 2010 have quite a few more features than spas made in 1995? Can your Ipod attach to your 1995 prodigy HotSpring? Oh wait, most people didn't even have internet or email back then.

[Spa Dude]

Not that it is a big deal, but you are wrong on point three. Arctic Spas was founded in 1994, which is far greater than, "less than ten years." Arctic Spas is acknowledged by most as one of the top brands in the industry, as is Hot Springs. You cant really go wrong with either one imo. I would wet test both and do your research on both local dealers as well.

They went in to business as "Blue Falls manufacturing" in 1994, they formed as Arctic in Thornsby a little less then 10 years ago.

http://www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/manufacturers-and-producers/arctic-spas-in-thorsby-ab-106215

We have been distributing Arctic Spas here in the UK for just over 10 years now, Arctic Spas based in Canada were doing it 15 years prior to us starting so I don't know where this 10 years comes from???

[spatech (the unreal one)]

We have been distributing Arctic Spas here in the UK for just over 10 years now, Arctic Spas based in Canada were doing it 15 years prior to us starting so I don't know where this 10 years comes from???

But thats not right either, that adds up to 25 years and thats certainly not true.

I thought it was about 13 or so, I'm not sure whats right now!?

[Spa Dude]

We have been distributing Arctic Spas here in the UK for just over 10 years now, Arctic Spas based in Canada were doing it 15 years prior to us starting so I don't know where this 10 years comes from???

But thats not right either, that adds up to 25 years and thats certainly not true.

I thought it was about 13 or so, I'm not sure whats right now!?

1994 is the year they started trading as Arctic Spas, but they have been manufacturing spas for some years before that.

[spawn]

Also, like other tub manufacturers from 15 years ago (there are not many left) most models had about 4-6 jets and a light. Not much to go wrong. As a spa guru wouldn't you say that spas made in 2010 have quite a few more features than spas made in 1995?

I think that this is a very good point that many buyers overlook. More features and complexity likley = more $ to repair, service and maintain in the future. It is very tempting in the showroom to start moving up the line to more jets, more diverters, more pumps, more filters, more lighting, more electronics, waterfall, auto sanitizing, air jets, head rests, fragrance etc.

The japanese still enjoy their simple ofuros - simple deep wooden soaking tubs that hold hot water. Rather than having electronics and distractions, they are typically located for quiet enjoyment of the setting. I understand they are not for everyone but it is worth comptemplating their pure expression of our pleasurable pursuit.

[NccPools]

I would never sell my customer a spa with a salt system! Hot water and salt(corrosion) just dont equal a happy customer....

[hottubdan]

I would never sell my customer a spa with a salt system! Hot water and salt(corrosion) just dont equal a happy customer....

old technology. old news.