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Hotsprings Sovereign - Temp Set To 102, Actual Temp Is 105


rihallix
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I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).

Keep in mind, manufacturer's don't have a responsibility to monitor posts on internet forums. So it's hard for them to respond unless they even know you're having an issue. If you don't contact them directly, they won't contact you directly. If your dealer contacts them, they will respond to your dealer directly.

Working with Watkins (Hot Spring) myself, I can tell you they make a very solid product. Though I too have seen water temperatures above the "set temp" myself, I don't believe it's necessarily a problem with the thermistor (thermostat sensor). One of the things that makes Hot Spring Spas so reliable long term, and so efficient, is their dedicated circulation pump.

This pump was changed over the last couple years. These days, this pump is extremely efficient. To the point that I've heard information suggesting that it releases 85% of the energy (electricity) usage as heat into the water that passes through it. This ultimately means it's adding a small amount of heat into the water continuously. So this can contribute to water temperatures increases when it's fairly warm outside. The thermostat in the hot tub cannot create cooling. It can only turn the heater ON when needed. So in a situation where the air outside is not causing temperature loss, and this extremely efficient pump is releasing heat into the water, it could be expected to see temperatures rise a little. And, because these spas are so well insulated, the heat is not lost as quickly as other spas, which means it's more easily heated. So, warm outdoor temps, very little heat loss, and an efficient pump adding small amounts of heat could cause a rise in temp.

If you have not had your complaint resolved, I would recommend you contact Watkins (Hot Spring) directly before passing judgment on them directly. See if they can help you out. I've always had very good experience with their support staff, and have heard the same from my customers.

Temperature inconsistency aside, there are many other reasons why the Hot Spring Spa was a better choice compared with Strong. Don't blame yourself for making the wrong choice just yet. :)

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If you also are having this problem (as I, the other night my temp was set at 101 but my read was 105 - too hot for the kids to even get in). I recommend you call Watkins!

I called - They Listened - They Resolved!

Part being delivery to my dealer as we speak!

Should be fixed within 2 weeks!

Life is good again - Stay thirsty my friends!

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If you also are having this problem (as I, the other night my temp was set at 101 but my read was 105 - too hot for the kids to even get in). I recommend you call Watkins!

I called - They Listened - They Resolved!

Part being delivery to my dealer as we speak!

Should be fixed within 2 weeks!

Life is good again - Stay thirsty my friends!

So tell us. What is the part they are sending you?

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I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).

This pump was changed over the last couple years. These days, this pump is extremely efficient. To the point that I've heard information suggesting that it releases 85% of the energy (electricity) usage as heat into the water that passes through it. This ultimately means it's adding a small amount of heat into the water continuously. So this can contribute to water temperatures increases when it's fairly warm outside. The thermostat in the hot tub cannot create cooling. It can only turn the heater ON when needed. So in a situation where the air outside is not causing temperature loss, and this extremely efficient pump is releasing heat into the water, it could be expected to see temperatures rise a little. And, because these spas are so well insulated, the heat is not lost as quickly as other spas, which means it's more easily heated. So, warm outdoor temps, very little heat loss, and an efficient pump adding small amounts of heat could cause a rise in temp.

Actually I would say that a pump that transfers 85% of its energy into heating the water is extremely inefficient. The purpose of the pump is to move water. You can try to explain this issue as a positive (extremely efficent pump and spas that don't loose heat as quickly as other spas), but as a consumer, I would just like to set the temp at a desired setting and have the water at that temp when I get in, rather than turn it down a couple of degrees in the summer or some other work around.

Glad to hear that Tubber got Hot Springs' attention and that they will try to take care of this for him - I hope they take care of the others with this problem too.

I thought one of the Hot Springs guys was suggesting that tubs with the ACE systems should not have a circ pump - any truth to that?

DK117 - although your post was pretty negative for the OP, I am have seen all the flac you guys get / got that bought tubs at Costoc.

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Not 100% - but I think they may be replacing my entire control panel!

I can update everyone after the service call!

As someone else mentioned in an earlier post! When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!

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No, even the ACE tubs have a circ pump. It's the ozonator that is disconnected when the ACE is installed. I've had my Grandee 3 days now, and love the tub, but mine may also be running hotter than what it's set at. It was 2F hotter than the setting I had it programmed for last night when the family went to take a dip. Still within the acceptable range, but a bit hotter than I would have liked. I dialed it back a couple of degrees, and plan to keep a watch on it. If it is consistent, it may not be a problem. But if it cannot be accurately controlled, I will be calling HotSpring as well.

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Not 100% - but I think they may be replacing my entire control panel!

I can update everyone after the service call!

As someone else mentioned in an earlier post! When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!

I think that's normal - its the heater return. Ours is usually hot there too.

I just spoke to Watkins, they will look into it. I should have gotten his name (my bad). He did not seem to know about the problem, or the fix. He took my name and number, and my dealers name and said someone would get back to me. I mentioned this forum/post to him also.

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When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!

That is normal; that water has to be that hot to mainitan the temp in the 400 gallon spa.

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When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!

That is normal; that water has to be that hot to mainitan the temp in the 400 gallon spa.

spatech, once the thermostat trips the set temp, should the return continue to circulate the very hot water into the tub to maintain the current temp or does it either dial back or shut off? I read the "always" comment in Tubber's response to mean that it continues even after it has reached the set temp. This may be normal though, since it takes continuous hot water to maintain hot water, and you may not be able to feel a slight variation of what is coming out of the outlet with your foot.

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When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!

That is normal; that water has to be that hot to mainitan the temp in the 400 gallon spa.

spatech, once the thermostat trips the set temp, should the return continue to circulate the very hot water into the tub to maintain the current temp or does it either dial back or shut off? I read the "always" comment in Tubber's response to mean that it continues even after it has reached the set temp. This may be normal though, since it takes continuous hot water to maintain hot water, and you may not be able to feel a slight variation of what is coming out of the outlet with your foot.

It will cycle as your heater turns on/off to maintain temp. For instance if its coming out really hot you could turn to your controls and lower the set point temp so that no heat is needed (to something like 95º for instance). That would tell the controller to turn off the heater and in the matter of a few seconds the very hot water should reduce to the same temp as the rest of the spa water (it won't really be instantaneous as the heater core is VERY hot and will need to dissipate that heat).

If it seems like its always hot that means that when you're in the spa the heater is pretty much always on trying to keep your spa up to temp so it depends on what temp you have it set to, how cold it is outside, whether you are running the main jet pumps (which obviously cools the water down quicker just like stirring a cup of coffee cools it down), etc.

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This pump was changed over the last couple years. These days, this pump is extremely efficient. To the point that I've heard information suggesting that it releases 85% of the energy (electricity) usage as heat into the water that passes through it. This ultimately means it's adding a small amount of heat into the water continuously. So this can contribute to water temperatures increases when it's fairly warm outside.

As another poster said this would indicate the pump is very inefficient. The pump is there to pump water around - not to heat the water. A small amount of heat by-product is inevitable under the laws of physics, but an efficient water pump will barely even get warm, and there's no way a little 50 watt (or thereabout) circ pump will generate enough heat to raise the temperature of hundreds of gallons of water.

That being said Hotspring are a great tub.

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I dialed the heat back to 99F and the water felt perfect this evening for a longer soak with the family. It was 101F when we first lifted the cover and got in, but quickly dropped to 99F with the jets on and held there consistent the whole time we were in the water (about 45-50 mins. total with cool downs). I think mine is functioning normally.

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All of you folks that are exhibiting temps that are approximately 2 degrees above set point should try one, simple test. Take something soft that will allow you to prop the cover open about an inch or so, run it for a day and see if the temp runs at set point. If it does, there is nothing wrong with the electronics. If the temps are still skewed a couple of degrees, you have an electronics issue (either sensors and/or controller). I do repair work for two HS dealers and a Caldera dealer, so I see a lot of these tubs. They are so well insulated that they tend to overheat during the warmer weather with the cover in place. The controller logic will sense the over-temp condition and trigger "summer logic", thereby limiting how far it will exceed set point.

The heater is actually being disengaged when the tub reaches set point, but heat is still generated by the electrical use of motors and the friction of the water flowing through the pipes.

John

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Call me fussy, but in my opinion when you set the tub temperature, that is what the temp should be regardless of time of year and I don't see this as a difficult goal to achieve. Somehow other tub manufacturers have been able to engineer energy efficient tubs to do so. Sounds like Hot Springs has figured out the problem and is taking care of it. I am sure McGee will report back that with the new control panel, the problem has been solved.

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Call me fussy, but in my opinion when you set the tub temperature, that is what the temp should be regardless of time of year and I don't see this as a difficult goal to achieve. Somehow other tub manufacturers have been able to engineer energy efficient tubs to do so. Sounds like Hot Springs has figured out the problem and is taking care of it. I am sure McGee will report back that with the new control panel, the problem has been solved.

I'm anxious to hear the update. I am starting to notice a pattern - it seems to definitely vary with ambient temperature. During the late summer (new install), it was dead on. Then we had a cold spell and I noticed a 2, sometimes 3 degree variance. Last weekend when the temperature was back in the mid-70's, it read okay again. Today it's in the upper 50's and I see a 1 degree temperature difference.

So in rough terms of ambient temps (I'm guessing at the exact thresholds):

- 70 or higher = same

- 58-69 = 1 degree difference

- 48-55 = 2 degrees difference

I wonder if the trend will continue and the delta will grow larger as the weather continues getting colder - that would be bad.

Something to watch. I'd be interested if others have noticed a similar pattern.

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I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).

Our spa arrived 3 weeks ago. We followed the instructions and set it to 102F, the next day it was 105F. We reported this to the HotSprings dealer - the owner said there's nothing he could do, the factory were not even being helpful.

With the situation continuing, after some persistence the local dealer sent a techie out to look at the tub. He confirmed the issue - and reported to the factory that with the temperature set to 101F, and the temperature in the spa at 101F the spa continued to heat. HotSprings dismissed the issue to their techie.

Perhaps it's just me, but when you spend near double the price on a spa I would expect that the temperature I set is the temperature of the spa (I recall a Jerry Seinfeld sketch about renting cars). I work in computers and if there's one thing I'd think to QA test if I were Hot Springs it would be the spa actually warms to the temperature that you set.

If HotSprings is able to truly be accountable and resolve the problem I will repost and vindicate them. Right now I am truly disappointed at a company charging a premium price that does not deliver on service. Calls to the dealer and the factory seem futile.

Rihallix

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UPDATE: Temp issue on new Hot Springs

I just got off the phone with Watkins to make sure I was all set to have my new CONTROL HEAD installed this weekend. My rep was not aware of the issue so she checked with her manager. She informed me that my part is on the way and Watkins is aware of this issue. They have - or are in the process of fixing this issue, so new tubs should not have an issue.

So, if you have a new Hot Springs with temp issues - call your dealer and/or Watkins. My dealer actually had no clue about this issue until I brought it to their attention - so Watkins may be your best bet to start.

I will update everyone after the part is installed this weekend. I will talk with the service rep and fill you in!

Stay thirsty!

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Tubber - Glad to hear that Hot Springs is taking care of you - they are a reputable established company. The fix will keep you from playing guessing games with your tub temp. While having the tub at a different temp is an annoyance and inconveince for adults, it can be very dangerous if young children will be using the tub.

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Tubber - Glad to hear that Hot Springs is taking care of you - they are a reputable established company. The fix will keep you from playing guessing games with your tub temp. While having the tub at a different temp is an annoyance and inconveince for adults, it can be very dangerous if young children will be using the tub.

I may be having the temperature problem with my Vanguard which was installed on 10/29. Set temp is 99, but actual temp is 102. Green light is off. Called my dealer and he had no clue and was dismissive of the problem. Spoke to CSR at Watkins who said it may very well be a problem that needs repair. She suggested I wait and see if the temp continues to creep up. I will keep you all posted.

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I'm having the same issue with my Jacuzzi J-280. Set temp is 2-3 degrees below water temp. I have not tested with a thermometer yet. I haven't had the tub long enough (installed on 10-27-2010) to determine is the temperature variance is affected by ambient air temperature. Baffles me how the water in the tub is hotter than the set temp. Is there a thermometer somewhere else besides the heater?

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rsc92 - per Watkins - they know they have an issue! Your problem will not go away - so waiting as they suggested is a waste. Call customer service back and get this fixed. Some of the reps may not know about this issue = you may need to speak to a customer service manager.

When I called my dealer - they also did not know if the issue! They also informed me that I should always call them first! Kinda ironic because I (the customer) was the one who brought this issue to you (the dealer)!

If I would have called you first - I probably would have gotten the run around as others on this forum have rec'd.

Hog - not sure what the deal is with Jacuzzi - but you having the same issue! I would call your dealer before it gets worse! I actaully had one night where the temp was set at 101 or 102 and it was reading 105! I wouldn't let the kids in! Too hot!

Good luck!

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rsc92 - per Watkins - they know they have an issue! Your problem will not go away - so waiting as they suggested is a waste. Call customer service back and get this fixed. Some of the reps may not know about this issue = you may need to speak to a customer service manager.

When I called my dealer - they also did not know if the issue! They also informed me that I should always call them first! Kinda ironic because I (the customer) was the one who brought this issue to you (the dealer)!

If I would have called you first - I probably would have gotten the run around as others on this forum have rec'd.

Hog - not sure what the deal is with Jacuzzi - but you having the same issue! I would call your dealer before it gets worse! I actaully had one night where the temp was set at 101 or 102 and it was reading 105! I wouldn't let the kids in! Too hot!

Good luck!

Did they happen ot give you a Tech Bulletin number or any reference like that?

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Tubber - What part exactly is it that they are changing? When is your service call scheduled? The tech person at my dealer was fairly insistent that I did not have a problem. All i can say is that the green light has not been on the tub all day. First full day we have had this problem. Seems to me that the control panel should have an adjustment for this sort of thing. Honestly seems very odd that it doesn't.

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It's not HotSpring that's dropping the ball here, it's the dealer. If it were one of my customers I would be out within a day or two depending on how busy things are. And he doesn't know his stuff or he is just giving you a line of BS because there are still thermistors in the new models. It's either the thermistors or the control head needs to be changed.

I knew of the problem! Lol.

The thing about Watkins is that if something is made wrong and problems devolop it will get fixed. It is not always done immediately because they want to test the newly made part for a period of time so that the same thing or some different problem doesn't occur.

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Tubber - Glad to hear that Hot Springs is taking care of you - they are a reputable established company. The fix will keep you from playing guessing games with your tub temp. While having the tub at a different temp is an annoyance and inconveince for adults, it can be very dangerous if young children will be using the tub.

I may be having the temperature problem with my Vanguard which was installed on 10/29. Set temp is 99, but actual temp is 102. Green light is off. Called my dealer and he had no clue and was dismissive of the problem. Spoke to CSR at Watkins who said it may very well be a problem that needs repair. She suggested I wait and see if the temp continues to creep up. I will keep you all posted.

Check to see if the 24 hour circ pump is also turned off when this temp spike occurs. If it is, it sounds like summer logic.

John

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