Adding Borates

[Want To Soak Tom]

So part of the awesome Dichlor/Bleach methods posted here by Nitro. Step 4 says to add 50ppm Borates to the water.

So I have a 550 Gallon Sundance Spa.

If I use the pool calculator it says I need 32 ounces of Borax for my Spa.

32 ounces = 2 lbs.

Is this correct? 2 pounds of Borate in the pool?

Now I am not sure if the Borax on the pool calculator equals the 20 Mule Borax I can get in the store or not. But still. 2 pounds?

I checked and my 20 Mule Borax says Sodium Tetraborate not Tetraborate Pentahydrate mentioned as another "borate" on the pool calculator. So I am guessing use the Borate option.

So is this correct? Or am I making a stupid mistake.

And if this is correct...

So what I see is I need to add 32 oz of my 20 Mule Borax to my spa. Then add 21 oz of dry acid to lower the PH and TA caused by the 20 Mule Borax.

Or should I go another route to get my 50 ppm of borates?

Monday I am replacing my water and going to a dichlor/bleach method. Last 2 fills have been Bromine but want to see how this works out. So going through all the great documentation here to make sure I do not kill anyone (including myself) anyone when I start this up on Monday.

[quantumchromodynamics]

20 mule team from the store is sodium tetraborate decahydrate. The decahydrate differs from the pentahydrate by having 5 more water molecules attached. That's why you have to use slightly more.

32 ounces is correct. You would use 15 ounces of muriatic acid (not dry acid) to compensate for the pH rise. I recommend adding 1/4 of the acid followed by 1/4 of the Borax then more acid and Borax. Breaking the additions into segments helps prevent your pH from getting too far out of balance.

I think that using boric acid is a better way to add borates because it is mostly pH neutral.

[Want To Soak Tom]

20 mule team from the store is sodium tetraborate decahydrate. The decahydrate differs from the pentahydrate by having 5 more water molecules attached. That's why you have to use slightly more.

32 ounces is correct. You would use 15 ounces of muriatic acid (not dry acid) to compensate for the pH rise. I recommend adding 1/4 of the acid followed by 1/4 of the Borax then more acid and Borax. Breaking the additions into segments helps prevent your pH from getting too far out of balance.

I think that using boric acid is a better way to add borates because it is mostly pH neutral.

Since I have a spa, avoiding the Muriatic Acid route due to mixing and such. So using Sodium Bisulfate to lower the Ph & TA that will rise due to Borax. I thought that was Dry Acid.

Maybe in the future I will go the Boric Acid route. Been surfing TFP all night and found the link to the chemistry store where I can get a 7lb for $13.44 (not including shipping). Since this is a spa I figure that will last me a few water replacement cycles.

The 2 lbs part just threw me since I am so used to doing an ounce of this an ounce of that. But the Borate thread at TFP has been very helpful.

Another related question, Since this is for a spa that will be drained and refilled every 4-6 months should I worry about getting the borate test strips or just add enough to get it to 50ppm and repeat on my next refil.

[Fatlip]

I use Nitros, diclore/bleach method and use boric acid. Its so much easier and the numbers don't move at all. If your ph is 7.6 it stays at 7.6. You can get it at most drug stores and you only add it one time per fill. My ph never moves any more, but get your numbers right for 2 weeks before adding, I think, that's what I do.

Rick

Hotsprings Jetsetter 2010

[waterbear]

for reference, to raise boraes by 10 ppm in 500 gallons water you need 6 oz by weight of 20 mule team (sodium tetreaborate decahydrate) and need 3 oz of 20 baudm (31%) muriatic acid to neutalize the alkalinity and normalize the pH. So you would need 5 times that to raise your borates by 50 ppm or 30 oz borax and 15 oz muriatic acid. the pool calculator is probably a bit more exact than this method but this one is certainly close enough to get you into the ballpark. Add about half the borax, then about half the acid (diluted in a bucket of water, always add acid TO water and not the other way!!!!!!!!!) with ciruclation going, then immediately add the rest of the borax and the acid. Circultate for an hour or so and then check your borates and pH in about 48 hours and adjust pH if needed. Your borates should be right on the money if your water measurement is correct!

Remember to lower your TA to around 70 ppm BEFORE you add the borates!

I would get the borate strips just to make sure for at least the first few drain and refill cycles. IMHO, you really should test it each time.

[Want To Soak Tom]

for reference, to raise boraes by 10 ppm in 500 gallons water you need 6 oz by weight of 20 mule team (sodium tetreaborate decahydrate) and need 3 oz of 20 baudm (31%) muriatic acid to neutalize the alkalinity and normalize the pH. So you would need 5 times that to raise your borates by 50 ppm or 30 oz borax and 15 oz muriatic acid. the pool calculator is probably a bit more exact than this method but this one is certainly close enough to get you into the ballpark. Add about half the borax, then about half the acid (diluted in a bucket of water, always add acid TO water and not the other way!!!!!!!!!) with ciruclation going, then immediately add the rest of the borax and the acid. Circultate for an hour or so and then check your borates and pH in about 48 hours and adjust pH if needed. Your borates should be right on the money if your water measurement is correct!

Remember to lower your TA to around 70 ppm BEFORE you add the borates!

I would get the borate strips just to make sure for at least the first few drain and refill cycles. IMHO, you really should test it each time.

Yeah the Pool Calculator shows 32oz for 20 Mule Team Borax. (550 gallon Spa) Now considering finding some Boric Acid and not use the 20 Mule Team Borax due to the Ph and Alkalinity changes. So if I find any tomorrow I will just do that instead. Of course my wife kinda looked at me strange when I said we need to look for some Roach Powder. Not sure if she believes me that it is ok to use that in the spa water (if I find it is 99%+ Boric Acid only of course)