Elevated Spa Leaks To Pool

[js9354]

Thanks for previous posts regarding this frustrating problem.

I have an elevated spa that over several hours leaks to the water level of the adjoining Pool. It does not seem to leak further. It leaks with equipement on or off.

The pool was built in 1978 by Blue Haven and is plumbed with PVC.

It has a Jandy Aqualink/JVAs system and Jandy 3 port diverters and Jandy check valve (On spa return line). Everything works as it should.

The 3 port Jandy spa/pool return valve has been replaced and the Spa return Jandy check valve has been replaced.

The 3 port Jandy Spa/pool drain has had a new kit. So as you can guess we have replaced everything that is easily replaced and yet we still have a problem.

My pool guy thinks that the problem is likely the Spa drain check valve which is SOMEWHERE underground.

He states putting spa drain check valve underground was standard pool installation many years ago. He states they were usually located underground where the pool and spa drain lines meet.

The pool deck has been removed and the House is in Escrow scheduled to close on August 20, 2010.

My question is this:

1) Is there anyway to locate the Spa drain check valve underground without digging up the entire back yard??

2) Could we just forget about the underground check valve and just plumb another one near the pool equipement?

Thanks for your help, I am somewhat under the gun to close the house...

[Pool Clown]

If it is leveling with the pump on or off, I would look for the suction side jandy valve to not be closing the spa suction completely. If the valve is real old, it could have the old style rubber gasket that seals the port. Over time the rubber will give up, and not seal any more. If you rebuild the valve, you will probably get a different kind of diverter. This one will be made of teflon, and wont need lube again.

Don't know of putting a check valve on the spa suction (probably a regional thing). Now what the guy may have meant was: check valve on a line that ran between a pool return, and the spa return. This would allow a percentage of water en route to the pool be sent to the spa instead, causing the spa to fill up and spill over into the pool. Then when the pump is off, the check valve holds the water back (in the spa). Don't know if that would be your cause because it would still fill up when the pump ran.

The kind of check valve setup i described can be re plumbed at the equipment, But i don't know about a spa check valve. Wouldn't know where it would have been placed.

You have a luxury that not many have in your case, not having a deck to toil with, during your exploration.

[js9354]

The 3 port valve on the Spa-Pool is 15 years old, but it looks like the current Jandy 4717 2 to 2.5-Inch Positive Seal, 3 Port NeverLube Valve

Anyway the "inners" including diverter, O rings and top have been replaced. I looked at the valve walls and the molded plastic bushing in the bottom, they seem to be in good shape. I coated the diverter in MagicLube. The valve is not close to a heat source that would cause it to warp. Has anyone replaced the "inners" and still have a Jandy Leak?

The latest local Technician reccomendations is to put the Aqualink in service mode, fill spa, and then put in spa mode.

Wait overnight. If there is no leak, then it must be the spa return check valve (which has already been replaced)

Does this Forum agree with this test?

How well does the Jandy 3 port seal for an elevated spa? This is a slow leak (spa leaks roughly 2 inches in 4 hours)

Thanks in advance. Escrow closes August 20th---Help!

[Pool Clown]

Can you force all the return water thru the spa by-pass. Even though this is the return side, and should be clean water, sometimes you can get debris (i.e just after cleaning the filter) in it, and that will cause it to leak. If possible, divert all the water thru this by-pass for about 5 seconds. The increased flow will allow the check valve gate to swing farther open and possibly dislodge anything that may be caught in the check valve causing the drain down.

[AFiremanFirst]

A few concerns. You said whether it is on or off. Water should always be going into/through your spa. If you are loosing water, with the system on, that's odd. My second concern is lubing with magic lube. Those are no lube valves, and if I were going to lube them, I'd use pentairs dynamic lube (for moving o-rings) rather than magic lube which is a static lube (ie filter oring). Yes, the forum agrees you should turn your system on service mode and do the test. If you have lost water in the morning, you either have a leak in the plumbing, or a leak from your hot tub to your pool, provided both your suction 3 port and more importantly your pressure 3 port are in good condition. My first thought is that you have a threaded fitting in the bottom of your hot tub, and no fountain screwed into that fitting. If this is the case, then there is the chance (given the age of the pool) that there is no check valve here, and there should be. It most likely looks like a 2" plumbing T with a cap on one end, under the cap is a spring and plunger, with of course another seal. I prefer these over Jandy's check valve as the guts are much much cheaper, and the seal is flat rather than curved, it's simply a better check valve. In summary, if your spa check valve (which is uncommon in my area) is in good shape, and both of your 3 port valves are in good shape, and you don't have a fountain, then yes I'm stumped! The spa check valve is uncommon to me, because typically there is a jandy valve that isolates the spa completely, negating the need for a check valve?

[Pool Clown]

Removed

[js9354]

Update on Elevated Spa leak to pool

I put the system in Service mode and did some water bucket tests.

In the first 24 hours the spa leaked down 6 inches (1 inch higher than the pool) The pool level went slightly higher. The Evaporative loss was 1/4 inch in the spa.

At 48 hours the spa leaked an additional 3/4 inch. It was at or slight above the pool water level. The evaporative loss was another 1/4 inch. The pool evaporative loss was miniscule.

I drained the spa and removed the light. There were no leaks.

The Pool spa drain link via a Jandy 3 port, 15 years old. I put a new Diverter kit in.

The pool spa return are linked with a New Jandy 3 port. There is a New Jandy 90 degree Check valve that I have dissassembled and checked.

The equipement has no visable leak. There are never any bubbles. The water is super clean. Yesterday at the service man's reccomendation, we put a new Jandy check valve between the drain 3 port and the pump.

We still have the problem

Any remaining possiblilities? The pool spa had a re plaster 2 years ago.

I am thinking that the old Jandy drain 3 ports may be warped and the new diverter kits was not enough to fix.

Or that the New Jandy 90 degree check valve is defective.

The house closes August 20th this needs to be fixed!

[Pool Clown]

I think you need to locate the buried check valve. Or did you, and that is the check valve you replaced?

[js9354]

Update fro 8-14-2010

Disregard the earlier statement of the underground check valve. I had posted earlier that the spa leaked down to at or just above the pool water level, but you could also say that it leaked down to the level of the air return lines, just above the spa return lines...

Today we did pressure testing

We plugged the return jets in the spa. The pool serviceman says that spa air and the spa return water meet at these jets. At the equipement, we cut the air 2" pipe and installed a pressure rig. On the other end was the spa return line (But this was sealed with the check valve). The pressure was increased to 25 PSI However when the pressure water was shut off we had a significant pressure drop down t 5 PSI with in one minute.

So that meant that we had a significant leak between the spa jets and the return check valve.

we next cut the 2" Spa return pipe at the equipement and capped it. This move would exclude the Jandy return valve and the check valve as source of pressure drop.

We noted again a significant pressuren drop.

So this meant that the leak was somewhere between the air line at the equipement and the return spa line at the equipement.

Next we dug around the perimeter of the spa looking for a wet spot. We found none. we next dug down behind the center spa jet and found the air and the spa return line. We were lucky and found it fairly easily. We were also happy to find that the air and spa jet lines were outside of the gunite. (Pool was built in 1981.) Apparantly these line can be buried under gunite in some of the older pools, but not in our case. We pressure tested the line from the equipement spa return to just before it runs into the Spa.

The spa return line to just before the gunite Pressure tested.

We pressure tested the spa air line from the equipement to just before the gunite.

The spa Air Line from spa to equipement Pressure tested.

So the leak had to be somewhere in the air or water lines that surround the pool. We decided that it was best to cut these lines and pressure test 2 jets on the left, and then if that pressure tested then the 2 jets on the right.

I will eep you posted and may try to post a picture of the problem!

thanks