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Pricing Help - Sundance Optima And Hot Spring Grandee


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I'll be making a purchase decision some time this month, and want to know what I should expect to pay for a new 2010 Sundance Optima versus a Hot Spring Grandee. I'm in Atlanta area and both dealers include steps and cover lifter in their pricing. The Atlanta Hot Spring dealer quoted me $10,800 for the Grandee with ACE, which based on what I've seen appears to be a very good price. I'm still awaiting best pricing on the Sundance, but I'm guessing it will be low to mid $10's with ozonator. I haven't seen that much pricing here on new Optimas, so I thought I'd see if anyone else has purchased and what they paid in their area? As much as I like the Grandee, I'm leaning toward the Optima based on our wet test. Both are wonderful spas though, and truthfully I'd be happy with either one! Here's my take on the pros and cons of each, in case any of you are interested. If you've shopped these recently, I'm interested in your feedback as well.

Grandee Pros:

ACE salt and Tri-X filters will likely save money overall in chemical and replacement costs.

Very intuitive controls (best I came across in wet testing), and the auxillary controls made it easy when you're in the tub.

Barrier free seating is nice for large parties or intimate affairs :wub:

Moto massage works very well in conjunction with the neck jets.

Standard versus optional Ozonator

Excellent LED lighting

Grandee Cons:

Not terribly fond of the Bella Fontanta water feature. Is it just me, or does it feel/sound like someone is peeing into the hot tub? Was more annoying that soothing.

Not enough foot jets (probably my biggest negative)

Seating not as comfy due to "barrier free" design

Pillows felt somewhat cheap and didn't look as nice, but I'm guessing they're durable

No air jet option

Optima Pros

The foot dome is extremely good and well thought out!

The jet customization and power were overall slightly better on the Optima than the Grandee, with the Moto Massage being Hot Spring's "Ace in the hole", which is undoubtedly tough to beat, but I might question the need for two of the exact same configuration. Wereas, every seat on the Optima feels distinctly different, and I liked and would use every one of them.

Air and Sunscents are more than just a gimmick surprisingly. I really enjoy both the cool/tingly feel of the air jets and the smell of the Sunscents. It really adds to the experience.

Formed seating is very comfy!

Impeccable build quality, including the pillows

Water feature is customizable and less intrusive/more soothing that distracting

Optima Cons

Slightly less room for entertaining, but does have one "couples seat"

No Ace option and requires 6 month replacement of microfilter, which will obviously equate to more upkeep $$.

Controls were not as intuitive, but still very usable. I like the ability to flip the LCD screen for in tub viewing, but still wish it had aux. controls on the opposite side.

Ozonator optional

There you have my .02 for what it's worth. Now I just need to figure out which makes the most sense from a practicality and price point of view.

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I was quoted off the cuff (no hard nego.) around $10,900, in the St. Louis Mo. area for the HS Grandee, was more than I was looking to spend so did not dig to far into pricing. I did however wet test the Vanguard and was not totaly blown away with the moto massage, if you took too much of the air away if would stop working not enough force to keep it moving. the Vanguard also just had 2 single speed pumps and the neck jet were way to hard don't know how hard they are on the Grandee maybe they are part of the 2 speed pump. Just my opinion

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I was quoted off the cuff (no hard nego.) around $10,900, in the St. Louis Mo. area for the HS Grandee, was more than I was looking to spend so did not dig to far into pricing. I did however wet test the Vanguard and was not totaly blown away with the moto massage, if you took too much of the air away if would stop working not enough force to keep it moving. the Vanguard also just had 2 single speed pumps and the neck jet were way to hard don't know how hard they are on the Grandee maybe they are part of the 2 speed pump. Just my opinion

Neck jets are adjustable.

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Grandee Pros:

ACE salt and Tri-X filters will likely save money overall in chemical and replacement costs.

I can't comment on the cost of replacement fliters, but a normal chlorine sanitization regime is easy, highly efficient, and very low-cost, see the following thread...

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25953

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I'll be making a purchase decision some time this month, and want to know what I should expect to pay for a new 2010 Sundance Optima versus a Hot Spring Grandee. I'm in Atlanta area and both dealers include steps and cover lifter in their pricing. The Atlanta Hot Spring dealer quoted me $10,800 for the Grandee with ACE, which based on what I've seen appears to be a very good price. I'm still awaiting best pricing on the Sundance, but I'm guessing it will be low to mid $10's with ozonator. I haven't seen that much pricing here on new Optimas, so I thought I'd see if anyone else has purchased and what they paid in their area? As much as I like the Grandee, I'm leaning toward the Optima based on our wet test. Both are wonderful spas though, and truthfully I'd be happy with either one! Here's my take on the pros and cons of each, in case any of you are interested. If you've shopped these recently, I'm interested in your feedback as well.

Grandee Pros:

ACE salt and Tri-X filters will likely save money overall in chemical and replacement costs.

Very intuitive controls (best I came across in wet testing), and the auxillary controls made it easy when you're in the tub.

Barrier free seating is nice for large parties or intimate affairs :wub:

Moto massage works very well in conjunction with the neck jets.

Standard versus optional Ozonator

Excellent LED lighting

Grandee Cons:

Not terribly fond of the Bella Fontanta water feature. Is it just me, or does it feel/sound like someone is peeing into the hot tub? Was more annoying that soothing.

Not enough foot jets (probably my biggest negative)

Seating not as comfy due to "barrier free" design

Pillows felt somewhat cheap and didn't look as nice, but I'm guessing they're durable

No air jet option

Optima Pros

The foot dome is extremely good and well thought out!

The jet customization and power were overall slightly better on the Optima than the Grandee, with the Moto Massage being Hot Spring's "Ace in the hole", which is undoubtedly tough to beat, but I might question the need for two of the exact same configuration. Wereas, every seat on the Optima feels distinctly different, and I liked and would use every one of them.

Air and Sunscents are more than just a gimmick surprisingly. I really enjoy both the cool/tingly feel of the air jets and the smell of the Sunscents. It really adds to the experience.

Formed seating is very comfy!

Impeccable build quality, including the pillows

Water feature is customizable and less intrusive/more soothing that distracting

Optima Cons

Slightly less room for entertaining, but does have one "couples seat"

No Ace option and requires 6 month replacement of microfilter, which will obviously equate to more upkeep $$.

Controls were not as intuitive, but still very usable. I like the ability to flip the LCD screen for in tub viewing, but still wish it had aux. controls on the opposite side.

Ozonator optional

There you have my .02 for what it's worth. Now I just need to figure out which makes the most sense from a practicality and price point of view.

I'm looking for a tub from the same Hot Spring dealer. I just had a wet test in the Envoy, but have not discussed pricing yet. We are not looking to purchase until the end of the month, but I'll share our pricing information when I get it next week. Was $10,800 including tax and have you tried negotiating the price down any further yet?

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I'll be making a purchase decision some time this month, and want to know what I should expect to pay for a new 2010 Sundance Optima versus a Hot Spring Grandee. I'm in Atlanta area and both dealers include steps and cover lifter in their pricing. The Atlanta Hot Spring dealer quoted me $10,800 for the Grandee with ACE, which based on what I've seen appears to be a very good price. I'm still awaiting best pricing on the Sundance, but I'm guessing it will be low to mid $10's with ozonator. I haven't seen that much pricing here on new Optimas, so I thought I'd see if anyone else has purchased and what they paid in their area? As much as I like the Grandee, I'm leaning toward the Optima based on our wet test. Both are wonderful spas though, and truthfully I'd be happy with either one! Here's my take on the pros and cons of each, in case any of you are interested. If you've shopped these recently, I'm interested in your feedback as well.

Grandee Pros:

ACE salt and Tri-X filters will likely save money overall in chemical and replacement costs.

Very intuitive controls (best I came across in wet testing), and the auxillary controls made it easy when you're in the tub.

Barrier free seating is nice for large parties or intimate affairs :wub:

Moto massage works very well in conjunction with the neck jets.

Standard versus optional Ozonator

Excellent LED lighting

Grandee Cons:

Not terribly fond of the Bella Fontanta water feature. Is it just me, or does it feel/sound like someone is peeing into the hot tub? Was more annoying that soothing.

Not enough foot jets (probably my biggest negative)

Seating not as comfy due to "barrier free" design

Pillows felt somewhat cheap and didn't look as nice, but I'm guessing they're durable

No air jet option

Optima Pros

The foot dome is extremely good and well thought out!

The jet customization and power were overall slightly better on the Optima than the Grandee, with the Moto Massage being Hot Spring's "Ace in the hole", which is undoubtedly tough to beat, but I might question the need for two of the exact same configuration. Wereas, every seat on the Optima feels distinctly different, and I liked and would use every one of them.

Air and Sunscents are more than just a gimmick surprisingly. I really enjoy both the cool/tingly feel of the air jets and the smell of the Sunscents. It really adds to the experience.

Formed seating is very comfy!

Impeccable build quality, including the pillows

Water feature is customizable and less intrusive/more soothing that distracting

Optima Cons

Slightly less room for entertaining, but does have one "couples seat"

No Ace option and requires 6 month replacement of microfilter, which will obviously equate to more upkeep $$.

Controls were not as intuitive, but still very usable. I like the ability to flip the LCD screen for in tub viewing, but still wish it had aux. controls on the opposite side.

Ozonator optional

There you have my .02 for what it's worth. Now I just need to figure out which makes the most sense from a practicality and price point of view.

Have you looked at the Hot Spring Pulse? It has a foot dome

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I wet tested the Envoy as well, and they just put a new Grandee on the floor to wet test. $10,800 for the Grandee did not include tax and was after some negotiation... The original price quoted was $11,200. Keep in mind you can likely save more money if you don't want or need the Ace saltwater system. The Hot Springs tubs are very nice, but I'm still leaning toward ordering a new Sundance Optima at the moment though, as I got a really good feeling from the owner, and my entire family was unanimous in our vote after wet testing. I looked at the Caldera lineup today over at Rec Warehouse for kicks, which has some good deals on floor models, since they're relocating, but I would never use them for service. The salespeople had a strong used car vibe, and didn't have a clue what they were selling. They didn't have a Niagara, but did have the Tahitian for $7399 w/steps, lifter, startup chemicals, and delivery, which seemed like a good deal. Just my opinion, but I think build quality was a step down from Hot Spring and Sundance though.

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Have you looked at the Hot Spring Pulse? It has a foot dome

No I didn't get a chance to see the Limelight Pulse. The Hot Spring dealer can order it, but didn't have any Limelight tubs in stock to wet test. After wet testing a bunch of different spas, I don't think I'd order a tub without wet testing first.

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No, unfortunately it's a single location, and they are the only Hot Spring brands dealer in the metro Atlanta area. They only had about 4 or 5 tubs on the floor, and the Grandee and Envoy were the only two filled. They have a pretty large warehouse area in the back though, which is filled with mainly refurb tubs. I got the feeling they move a lot of used/refurb inventory and most of their new tub sales are custom orders.

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No, unfortunately it's a single location, and they are the only Hot Spring brands dealer in the metro Atlanta area. They only had about 4 or 5 tubs on the floor, and the Grandee and Envoy were the only two filled. They have a pretty large warehouse area in the back though, which is filled with mainly refurb tubs. I got the feeling they move a lot of used/refurb inventory and most of their new tub sales are custom orders.

There is also a Hot Spring dealer in Peachtree City. I'm pretty sure they would deliver anywhere in the Metro area. I plan to have a look at this dealer too and perhaps play them off each other in regards to pricing.

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dark rider,

I purchased a 2009 Sundance Optima at the end of last year, prior to the availability of the upcoming new 2010 Optima model. It was a little difficult getting the dealers to reveal the differences between the two year models. I eventually discovered the changes to the 2010 over the 2009 were relatively minor. How important those minor differences may be is an argument better left to the technicians.

In any case, I compared a new 2009 Sundance Optima and to a new HotSpring Grandee and came to many of the same conclusions you did as to the pros and cons of each. Although the moto massage of the Grandee was nice, I felt overall, the jet configuration, hydrotherapy and seat designs in the Optima were superior to the Grandee. I, too, loved the foot jets in the Optima and the well-designed foot well. Also, I did not like that the Grandee seating design sacrificed a prime corner seat position for filtration.

Included with my Optima were the Covermate III lifter and synthetic steps (both an upgrade from the standard cover lifter and steps usually included by the dealer), ozone generator, SunPurity (Nature 2 designed specifically for Sundance), startup chemicals, sunsense (aroma beads cartridge), delivery and setup. Also included in my package were the exterior lights, which I was initially ambivalent about. But these exterior lights turned out to be a great little extra feature that provide just enough light around the deck to see where we're stepping without illuminating the sky (important for star-gazing). My entire package for a brand new 2009 Sundance Optima, shipped from the factory, was under $10K...taxes and all. I'm in the Midwest and prices in your area may be significantly different than my neck of the woods. Since the 2010 Sundance Optima is essentially the same tub, I would think you could get the 2010 Optima model for a similar price.

FYI, the initial starting quote I received from the HotSpring dealer for the Grandee was somewhat higher (not significantly so) than the initial quote I received from the Sundance dealer for the Optima. BUT, I did not try to negotiate price with either dealer until I wet tested. Once I wet tested, I focused on the Sundance Optima. The wet test was the deciding factor...not the initial quoted price. Once I decided on the tub, I worked on getting the best deal I could (or thought I could) from the Sundance dealer. If I tried, I may have been able to negotiate a better deal for the Grandee from the HotSpring dealer, but I did not think the difference would have been worth sacrificing my preference for the seating, features, and hydrotherapy of the Optima. After all is said and done, I thought I got a very good deal. I have been very happy with our choice and selection. Of course, everyone has their own opinions. You must decide what's right for you. Both HotSpring and Sundance make excellent hot tubs.

My recommendation would be to negotiate with the dealer to get all the options and extras you want. Be specific about the options and get him to commit to a price with all your specific options listed. THEN, if you can pay cash, ask the dealer to cut the price by 2% - 5% (his fees if you use a credit card). You may be able to save a few hundred bucks more.

Good luck with your decision-making and... happy tubbing. B)

gman

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I'll be making a purchase decision some time this month, and want to know what I should expect to pay for a new 2010 Sundance Optima versus a Hot Spring Grandee. I'm in Atlanta area and both dealers include steps and cover lifter in their pricing. The Atlanta Hot Spring dealer quoted me $10,800 for the Grandee with ACE, which based on what I've seen appears to be a very good price. I'm still awaiting best pricing on the Sundance, but I'm guessing it will be low to mid $10's with ozonator. I haven't seen that much pricing here on new Optimas, so I thought I'd see if anyone else has purchased and what they paid in their area? As much as I like the Grandee, I'm leaning toward the Optima based on our wet test. Both are wonderful spas though, and truthfully I'd be happy with either one! Here's my take on the pros and cons of each, in case any of you are interested. If you've shopped these recently, I'm interested in your feedback as well.

Grandee Pros:

ACE salt and Tri-X filters will likely save money overall in chemical and replacement costs.

Very intuitive controls (best I came across in wet testing), and the auxillary controls made it easy when you're in the tub.

Barrier free seating is nice for large parties or intimate affairs :wub:

Moto massage works very well in conjunction with the neck jets.

Standard versus optional Ozonator

Excellent LED lighting

Grandee Cons:

Not terribly fond of the Bella Fontanta water feature. Is it just me, or does it feel/sound like someone is peeing into the hot tub? Was more annoying that soothing.

Not enough foot jets (probably my biggest negative)

Seating not as comfy due to "barrier free" design

Pillows felt somewhat cheap and didn't look as nice, but I'm guessing they're durable

No air jet option

Optima Pros

The foot dome is extremely good and well thought out!

The jet customization and power were overall slightly better on the Optima than the Grandee, with the Moto Massage being Hot Spring's "Ace in the hole", which is undoubtedly tough to beat, but I might question the need for two of the exact same configuration. Wereas, every seat on the Optima feels distinctly different, and I liked and would use every one of them.

Air and Sunscents are more than just a gimmick surprisingly. I really enjoy both the cool/tingly feel of the air jets and the smell of the Sunscents. It really adds to the experience.

Formed seating is very comfy!

Impeccable build quality, including the pillows

Water feature is customizable and less intrusive/more soothing that distracting

Optima Cons

Slightly less room for entertaining, but does have one "couples seat"

No Ace option and requires 6 month replacement of microfilter, which will obviously equate to more upkeep $$.

Controls were not as intuitive, but still very usable. I like the ability to flip the LCD screen for in tub viewing, but still wish it had aux. controls on the opposite side.

Ozonator optional

There you have my .02 for what it's worth. Now I just need to figure out which makes the most sense from a practicality and price point of view.

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Hello and maybe I can help somewhat with your decision:

I talked about and then wet tested the Hot Springs and Sundance (along with quit a few more). It came down to the comfortable feeling with the staff and knowledge of the product. With Premier Hot Tubs - I threw out MANY questions and some just to see of I could trip him (James the Owner) up and I could not. He knows his stuff. He educated me on so many things that I had no clue was an issue with getting a top quality or ANY hot tub. There was no pressure at all from James; in fact he encouraged me to go wet test again and ask more questions to the other dealers/brands I was considering and make an honest, educated decision. I did... and the only other brand I was considering was...

The Hot Springs dealer - well - not so great. He would back track and couldn't answer all my questions. I did not wet test again.

I went back to Premier Hot Tubs in Alpharetta - I did ANOTHER wet test - and bought a brand new Optima from them. The sales information was great. The customer service and follow up are a 10+ - EXCEPTIONAL!!! He did ask me why I chose the Optima and Sundance.. I honestly told him it that the second wet test was a big part of my deciding factor but also because of the easiness and non pressure of the sale, the comfortable atmosphere, his office staff, and his knowledge and his firm belief in his product. No hidden charges at all. Price he gave me was out the door and included everything!

Customer service was a huge plus!! By this I mean - the first AND second day I was in his store, they were busy with other customers and it was a great opportunity to sit back in the shadows and see them (James and Sherry) in action - so to speak. Sherry was so busy with phone calls and checking customers out - so professional although you could tell she was overwhelmed. The way James handled an irate customer that just happen to walk in -not theirs- he just happened to find PHT on the internet and had a very bad experience and had spent alot of money on his "other" tub with another repair company.. James picked up the phone and called his technician - and he met the customer at his house later that day.

James stands behind his product - SALES AND SERVICE!!!! I strongly recommend the Sundance experience and product over any other out there. Go to Premier Hot Tubs and you will not be disappointed at all - but the Optima I love it!!!

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There is also a Hot Spring dealer in Peachtree City. I'm pretty sure they would deliver anywhere in the Metro area. I plan to have a look at this dealer too and perhaps play them off each other in regards to pricing.

Thanks for the info, it didn't shop up on the search when I tried multiple Atlanta zip codes. I may see if they have other models to wet test, but if I end up with a Hot Spring product, I'd likely go with the more local dealer. They have good technical knowledge, are very convenient to me, and had good pricing overall.

dark rider,

I purchased a 2009 Sundance Optima at the end of last year, prior to the availability of the upcoming new 2010 Optima model. It was a little difficult getting the dealers to reveal the differences between the two year models. I eventually discovered the changes to the 2010 over the 2009 were relatively minor. How important those minor differences may be is an argument better left to the technicians.

In any case, I compared a new 2009 Sundance Optima and to a new HotSpring Grandee and came to many of the same conclusions you did as to the pros and cons of each. Although the moto massage of the Grandee was nice, I felt overall, the jet configuration, hydrotherapy and seat designs in the Optima were superior to the Grandee. I, too, loved the foot jets in the Optima and the well-designed foot well. Also, I did not like that the Grandee seating design sacrificed a prime corner seat position for filtration.

Included with my Optima were the Covermate III lifter and synthetic steps (both an upgrade from the standard cover lifter and steps usually included by the dealer), ozone generator, SunPurity (Nature 2 designed specifically for Sundance), startup chemicals, sunsense (aroma beads cartridge), delivery and setup. Also included in my package were the exterior lights, which I was initially ambivalent about. But these exterior lights turned out to be a great little extra feature that provide just enough light around the deck to see where we're stepping without illuminating the sky (important for star-gazing). My entire package for a brand new 2009 Sundance Optima, shipped from the factory, was under $10K...taxes and all. I'm in the Midwest and prices in your area may be significantly different than my neck of the woods. Since the 2010 Sundance Optima is essentially the same tub, I would think you could get the 2010 Optima model for a similar price.

FYI, the initial starting quote I received from the HotSpring dealer for the Grandee was somewhat higher (not significantly so) than the initial quote I received from the Sundance dealer for the Optima. BUT, I did not try to negotiate price with either dealer until I wet tested. Once I wet tested, I focused on the Sundance Optima. The wet test was the deciding factor...not the initial quoted price. Once I decided on the tub, I worked on getting the best deal I could (or thought I could) from the Sundance dealer. If I tried, I may have been able to negotiate a better deal for the Grandee from the HotSpring dealer, but I did not think the difference would have been worth sacrificing my preference for the seating, features, and hydrotherapy of the Optima. After all is said and done, I thought I got a very good deal. I have been very happy with our choice and selection. Of course, everyone has their own opinions. You must decide what's right for you. Both HotSpring and Sundance make excellent hot tubs.

My recommendation would be to negotiate with the dealer to get all the options and extras you want. Be specific about the options and get him to commit to a price with all your specific options listed. THEN, if you can pay cash, ask the dealer to cut the price by 2% - 5% (his fees if you use a credit card). You may be able to save a few hundred bucks more.

Good luck with your decision-making and... happy tubbing. B)

gman

gman, thanks for the info. It is very helpful! It seems like you got a good deal on your '09 Optima. I'd like to get pricing right around $10K similarly equipped. I will need to finance about half the cost, so I will likely take advantage of his 12 months same as cash financing. The owner of the dealership ballparked me in the Mid $10's without negotiation at the store (Ozonator, matching synthetic steps, cover lifter - I didn't specify, but the floor models all had hydraulic assist, and he said that's the one he includes, so I'm guessing it's a Covermate III?, startup chemicals and delivery. The exterior lighting would also be nice, since I'll be putting the tub on a patio under a deck. The Sunpurity and Suncents are relatively cheap, so I'm sure I can probably get him to include some. I've been into the store twice now. Once to see what he had, and a second time to wet test. Both times, the owner was present. He is an all around likeable guy, and was very knowledgable and helpful. He worked his way up through the ranks as a spa tech and eventually bought his own dealership, so he is more technically inclined than most, and you can tell he loves what he does. From a sales standpoint, he's not at all pushy. In fact, he came right out and told us that his best pricing would be at an event a couple of weeks from now, so that's why we're holding off on a written quote.

In negotiating, we will also need to take into account one thing that wouldn't be part of a standard install. Our patio is slate over concrete and I measured the runoff slope to be 2" over 14'. The dealer said that he would require a pressure treated decking underlay with angle cut runners to level the pad and account for any unevenness in the slate itself. He also said it would spread the weight more evenly to prevent cracking of the slate if we ever got rid of the tub. I could likely mock one up pretty easily, but I'd prefer they do it to leave no question as to warranty.

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Hello and maybe I can help somewhat with your decision:

I talked about and then wet tested the Hot Springs and Sundance (along with quit a few more). It came down to the comfortable feeling with the staff and knowledge of the product. With Premier Hot Tubs - I threw out MANY questions and some just to see of I could trip him (James the Owner) up and I could not. He knows his stuff. He educated me on so many things that I had no clue was an issue with getting a top quality or ANY hot tub. There was no pressure at all from James; in fact he encouraged me to go wet test again and ask more questions to the other dealers/brands I was considering and make an honest, educated decision. I did... and the only other brand I was considering was...

The Hot Springs dealer - well - not so great. He would back track and couldn't answer all my questions. I did not wet test again.

I went back to Premier Hot Tubs in Alpharetta - I did ANOTHER wet test - and bought a brand new Optima from them. The sales information was great. The customer service and follow up are a 10+ - EXCEPTIONAL!!! He did ask me why I chose the Optima and Sundance.. I honestly told him it that the second wet test was a big part of my deciding factor but also because of the easiness and non pressure of the sale, the comfortable atmosphere, his office staff, and his knowledge and his firm belief in his product. No hidden charges at all. Price he gave me was out the door and included everything!

Customer service was a huge plus!! By this I mean - the first AND second day I was in his store, they were busy with other customers and it was a great opportunity to sit back in the shadows and see them (James and Sherry) in action - so to speak. Sherry was so busy with phone calls and checking customers out - so professional although you could tell she was overwhelmed. The way James handled an irate customer that just happen to walk in -not theirs- he just happened to find PHT on the internet and had a very bad experience and had spent alot of money on his "other" tub with another repair company.. James picked up the phone and called his technician - and he met the customer at his house later that day.

James stands behind his product - SALES AND SERVICE!!!! I strongly recommend the Sundance experience and product over any other out there. Go to Premier Hot Tubs and you will not be disappointed at all - but the Optima I love it!!!

Wow, good to hear that the entire experience at Premier Hot Tubs was excellent! I wasn't going to call them out by name, but that's obviously where I'm shopping at as well, since they're the only metro Atlanta Sundance dealer. Your thoughts/impressions mirror many of my own. When we wet tested, we didn't make any kind of appointment. We just stopped in not realizing that they have shorter hours on Saturday. Even though we got there about an hour before closing, we didn't feel rushed at all. Both James and Sherry stuck around with us for almost an hour after the store closed. They were by far the most customer oriented of the dealers we shopped!

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gman, thanks for the info. It is very helpful! It seems like you got a good deal on your '09 Optima. I'd like to get pricing right around $10K similarly equipped. I will need to finance about half the cost, so I will likely take advantage of his 12 months same as cash financing. The owner of the dealership ballparked me in the Mid $10's without negotiation at the store (Ozonator, matching synthetic steps, cover lifter - I didn't specify, but the floor models all had hydraulic assist, and he said that's the one he includes, so I'm guessing it's a Covermate III?, startup chemicals and delivery. The exterior lighting would also be nice, since I'll be putting the tub on a patio under a deck. The Sunpurity and Suncents are relatively cheap, so I'm sure I can probably get him to include some. I've been into the store twice now. Once to see what he had, and a second time to wet test. Both times, the owner was present. He is an all around likeable guy, and was very knowledgable and helpful. He worked his way up through the ranks as a spa tech and eventually bought his own dealership, so he is more technically inclined than most, and you can tell he loves what he does. From a sales standpoint, he's not at all pushy. In fact, he came right out and told us that his best pricing would be at an event a couple of weeks from now, so that's why we're holding off on a written quote.

In negotiating, we will also need to take into account one thing that wouldn't be part of a standard install. Our patio is slate over concrete and I measured the runoff slope to be 2" over 14'. The dealer said that he would require a pressure treated decking underlay with angle cut runners to level the pad and account for any unevenness in the slate itself. He also said it would spread the weight more evenly to prevent cracking of the slate if we ever got rid of the tub. I could likely mock one up pretty easily, but I'd prefer they do it to leave no question as to warranty.

dark rider,

Just FYI, I took my time researching and wet-testing at least a half dozen spas (comparable in size and features to the Grandee and Optima) from different manufacturers, including D1, Caldera, and Artesian, et al. I received a lot of good advice from the more experienced contributors on this forum, which I put to good use. I also researched the dealers. I enjoyed the research and learned a lot in the process. You seem to be doing the same. I think wet-testing is the most important consideration, followed by the quality and reliability of the dealership (almost as important as the tub). Price is least important. We all have a budget, but... you want to get the best value for your money...that means the best tub for you and the best service available to you within your budget, whatever that is.

Good hunting and negotiating

gman

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dark rider,

Just FYI, I took my time researching and wet-testing at least a half dozen spas (comparable in size and features to the Grandee and Optima) from different manufacturers, including D1, Caldera, and Artesian, et al. I received a lot of good advice from the more experienced contributors on this forum, which I put to good use. I also researched the dealers. I enjoyed the research and learned a lot in the process. You seem to be doing the same. I think wet-testing is the most important consideration, followed by the quality and reliability of the dealership (almost as important as the tub). Price is least important. We all have a budget, but... you want to get the best value for your money...that means the best tub for you and the best service available to you within your budget, whatever that is.

Good hunting and negotiating

gman

gman, still on the fence here =) Did you by chance also wet test the Vanguard? I'm interested in your candid impressions. Others feel free to chime in as well. Hot Springs is running a very good Labor Day promotion, and I could get a new factory order Vanguard with ACE, Uprite cover lifter, matching Everwood steps, startup salt, Calcium softener pillow, PH balancer, test strips, a booster seat for the kids, and delivery installation at a steal of a price (just under $9K before tax). I'm still waiting until after this coming weekend to make a final decision, but Hot Springs is really fighting for my business! The Grandee is also heavily discounted, even more than I posted above, but the better half likes the sizing better for the Vanguard (both physical tub footprint and internal size). We dry tested a used one, but they don't have a new one to wet test. Specifically, I wanted to know if the two single speed pumps were strong enough and how they compared to the Grandee and Optima. I don't think we'd miss the extra jets from the Grandee if the remaining jets were as strong. I'd still miss the Optima foot dome and Air/Sunscents though, but the $1500 in initial savings and ongoing chemical and water savings over the life of the spa do add up, even over the least costly chemical alternatives. Factor in the ease of maintenance and it is certaily a compelling argument. Decisions... Decisions... I'll be sure to post up whatever we decide, and I thank you all for your feedback! This forum has been by far the best resource I've found in gathering information to make an informed buying decision.

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dark rider,

Just FYI, I took my time researching and wet-testing at least a half dozen spas (comparable in size and features to the Grandee and Optima) from different manufacturers, including D1, Caldera, and Artesian, et al. I received a lot of good advice from the more experienced contributors on this forum, which I put to good use. I also researched the dealers. I enjoyed the research and learned a lot in the process. You seem to be doing the same. I think wet-testing is the most important consideration, followed by the quality and reliability of the dealership (almost as important as the tub). Price is least important. We all have a budget, but... you want to get the best value for your money...that means the best tub for you and the best service available to you within your budget, whatever that is.

Good hunting and negotiating

gman

gman, still on the fence here =) Did you by chance also wet test the Vanguard? I'm interested in your candid impressions. Others feel free to chime in as well. Hot Springs is running a very good Labor Day promotion, and I could get a new factory order Vanguard with ACE, Uprite cover lifter, matching Everwood steps, startup salt, Calcium softener pillow, PH balancer, test strips, a booster seat for the kids, and delivery installation at a steal of a price (just under $9K before tax). I'm still waiting until after this coming weekend to make a final decision, but Hot Springs is really fighting for my business! The Grandee is also heavily discounted, even more than I posted above, but the better half likes the sizing better for the Vanguard (both physical tub footprint and internal size). We dry tested a used one, but they don't have a new one to wet test. Specifically, I wanted to know if the two single speed pumps were strong enough and how they compared to the Grandee and Optima. I don't think we'd miss the extra jets from the Grandee if the remaining jets were as strong. I'd still miss the Optima foot dome and Air/Sunscents though, but the $1500 in initial savings and ongoing chemical and water savings over the life of the spa do add up, even over the least costly chemical alternatives. Factor in the ease of maintenance and it is certaily a compelling argument. Decisions... Decisions... I'll be sure to post up whatever we decide, and I thank you all for your feedback! This forum has been by far the best resource I've found in gathering information to make an informed buying decision.

IMO, if the Grandee is close to the Vanguard in price, I'd go with the Grandee. We were also torn between the same two. Finally decided on the Grandee. Just around $500 more for us in price. Having two moto-massage seats is great. Delivered in May and we've only missed two nights of soaking. Yes, it's a bigger footprint but if you've got the space, it's worth it.

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[iMO, if the Grandee is close to the Vanguard in price, I'd go with the Grandee. We were also torn between the same two. Finally decided on the Grandee. Just around $500 more for us in price. Having two moto-massage seats is great. Delivered in May and we've only missed two nights of soaking. Yes, it's a bigger footprint but if you've got the space, it's worth it.

Congrats on the Grandee jayhawker! The Grandee would be about $1600 higher with the same extras for us, around $10,500 pre-tax. With all of the options I listed, I think both are great prices, based on what I've seen, but the Vanguard appears to meet our needs better than the Grandee. With only 2 adults and 2 kids, the only time we'd miss the extra space is during parties (not often). The physical footprint of the Grandee isn't really a problem. It would be a little tight, but it would fit on our patio area. My wife has trouble reaching the footwell jets in the Grandee though, whereas the smaller footwell in the Vanguard makes it easier based on her small stature. The loss of the second DX Moto Massage is a minor concern, but I don't think a second DX is worth the extra $1600 to us. How does the single jet Moto Massage feel in comparison to the DX? It looks like it would target your spine, which may actually be nice to have some variation. The dealer also said they have an aftermarket jet/faceplate option as well that only fits the single/base Moto Massage that he could get for us as a 2nd option for little cost. The downgrade in water feature to the soothing creek is also probably a good thing, since we weren't terribly fond of the Bella Fontana... All of us, except the 6 year old anyway who got great joy from making it "pee on us!" The pumps are my biggest concern. I'm sure I'd be happy if the Vanguard can put out similar power as the Grandee with smaller pumps/fewer jets, but if it's not as strong, I'd probably have regrets about not going with either the Grandee or the Optima. Based on feel alone, I think the Optima would still be our winner. It's a darn good tub by it's own right, and minus the ACE and current deals would likely be an easy choice for us.

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Have you looked at the Hot Spring Pulse? It has a foot dome

The Limelight Pulse is the one that should be compared with the Sundance Optima anyhow. They are fairly similar. :) And it should be fairly less expensive compared to the Grandee as well. It also has a different water fall on it, that might work for you better if you don't like the Bella Fontana.

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Did you by chance also wet test the Vanguard? I'm interested in your candid impressions. Others feel free to chime in as well. Hot Springs is running a very good Labor Day promotion, and I could get a new factory order Vanguard with ACE, Uprite cover lifter, matching Everwood steps, startup salt, Calcium softener pillow, PH balancer, test strips, a booster seat for the kids, and delivery installation at a steal of a price (just under $9K before tax).

Wow.. :blink:

I'm not sure what to say. I think the little smiley face says more than the words do. Wish I could sell for that price with that stuff. LOL

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