Free And Total Chlorine Question

[styro]

Thanks for all inputs,

Waterbear now all is more clear.

Quantumchromodynamics my ColorQ pro7 it is very accurate and has no Mps test regents.

No, it is not. I have spoken to LaMotte techs about the ColorQ to see if we wanted to carry it in addtion to our other test kits, both LaMotte and Taylor (where I used to work used the Waterlink and I have been certified by LaMotte in their testing system) and the tech said that it does an amazing job FOR THE MONEY. Consider that the Waterlink Express retail to stores for over $1200 and is one of their less expensive "professional" meters. Just because it gives you a readout with a lot of decimal places does not mean it really has that kind of precision. There are also limitations in LaMotte's chemistry itself. (where they have turned titrations into colormetric tests).

LaMotte does make a stand alone Cl/MPS/pH test kit #3360 that uses octa slide comparators so it is in their "professional" line but you are correct that they do not supply an MPS reagent for the colorQ. Taylor does have an MPS interference reagent available for the K2000 series of test kits.

Ozonator is set to do the work 4x 2hrs/day.

If you have any ozone residual in the water this will also test as CC.potassium monopersulfate Well designed systems are not supposed to have any residual ozone by they seem to not really exist anymore because of the cost.

Water still had some chloramine smell but not that strong.

I guess my problem is also because I'm closing my cover after half an hrs after addition of chemicals.

Yep, usually the cause!

Normal prossegger is addition of chemicals water aeration and cover closed after 10-15 min.

How about winter in case of CC High?

In my case when the CC is high I should keep my spa open xposed to sunlight for few hrs like Waterbear mention.(no problem is summer)

Yes, if you have a problem with persistent CC. The disinfection byproducts (nasty and smelly CCs) need to gas off. You won't lose as much heat as you think you will but you will lose some.

I will try this tomorrow.

Thanks

Adam

It can sometimes take more than one shock cycle to get rid of some of the nastier and smellier disinfection byproducts.

Today after a week of trying to get rid of nasty bacteria, I'm still very far from success.

The smell it's almost gone the water is clear, only my numbers are funny.

F.ch 2.48

T.ch 3.90

----------

1.42

If I open my cover that number will probably decrease to around 1.00

Looks like it is not possible for me to go lower then that.

I did add first time 80 grams and then after that 3 times(48 hrs space) 30 grams each time of potassium monopersulfate.( should I do add more?)

My spa was exposed to sunlight for couple of days.

I was also advised by Waterbear to ignore CC readings for 24 hrs.

My question is:

After 24 hours if the bacteria is destroy the readings should be closer to 0.5?

Can I do my regular tests for f.ch and T.ch after 24Hrs?

Or as long as the smell it's gone water chemistry is fine....?

This numbers between F.ch and T.ch never come back to normal since the potassium is in the water?

Sorry for this questions but I would like to have complete clear picture of this problem and know what to do in the future.

Thanks

[waterbear]

Thanks for all inputs,

Waterbear now all is more clear.

Quantumchromodynamics my ColorQ pro7 it is very accurate and has no Mps test regents.

No, it is not. I have spoken to LaMotte techs about the ColorQ to see if we wanted to carry it in addtion to our other test kits, both LaMotte and Taylor (where I used to work used the Waterlink and I have been certified by LaMotte in their testing system) and the tech said that it does an amazing job FOR THE MONEY. Consider that the Waterlink Express retail to stores for over $1200 and is one of their less expensive "professional" meters. Just because it gives you a readout with a lot of decimal places does not mean it really has that kind of precision. There are also limitations in LaMotte's chemistry itself. (where they have turned titrations into colormetric tests).

LaMotte does make a stand alone Cl/MPS/pH test kit #3360 that uses octa slide comparators so it is in their "professional" line but you are correct that they do not supply an MPS reagent for the colorQ. Taylor does have an MPS interference reagent available for the K2000 series of test kits.

Ozonator is set to do the work 4x 2hrs/day.

If you have any ozone residual in the water this will also test as CC.potassium monopersulfate Well designed systems are not supposed to have any residual ozone by they seem to not really exist anymore because of the cost.

Water still had some chloramine smell but not that strong.

I guess my problem is also because I'm closing my cover after half an hrs after addition of chemicals.

Yep, usually the cause!

Normal prossegger is addition of chemicals water aeration and cover closed after 10-15 min.

How about winter in case of CC High?

In my case when the CC is high I should keep my spa open xposed to sunlight for few hrs like Waterbear mention.(no problem is summer)

Yes, if you have a problem with persistent CC. The disinfection byproducts (nasty and smelly CCs) need to gas off. You won't lose as much heat as you think you will but you will lose some.

I will try this tomorrow.

Thanks

Adam

It can sometimes take more than one shock cycle to get rid of some of the nastier and smellier disinfection byproducts.

Today after a week of trying to get rid of nasty bacteria, I'm still very far from success.

The smell it's almost gone the water is clear, only my numbers are funny.

F.ch 2.48

T.ch 3.90

----------

1.42

If I open my cover that number will probably decrease to around 1.00

Open the cover and keep it off until you are done shocking or you are just spinning your wheels! The disinfection byproducts need to gas off and they cannot do that with the cover on!

Looks like it is not possible for me to go lower then that.

I did add first time 80 grams and then after that 3 times(48 hrs space) 30 grams each time of potassium monopersulfate.( should I do add more?)

My spa was exposed to sunlight for couple of days.

I was also advised by Waterbear to ignore CC readings for 24 hrs.

You misread what I posted. Re read my first post. You either want to shock with chlorine with the cover off and keep the tub at shock level with the cover off until the CC reading is less than .5 ppm (and if you have ozone in the water you could get a false CC reading from the ozone so be aware of that, shutting off the ozone for a day or two AND leaving the spa uncovered would tell you. If the CC drops after shutting off the ozone then you know it's causing interference with your testing.)

OR

you want to do a weekly shock with MPS WITH THE SPA UNCOVERED and just ignore CC readings completely. This usualy works best if started from a fresh fill of the tub.

NOWHERE did I say to ignore CC readings for 24 hours. I said that I have seen often seen the interference last for LONGER than 24 hours.

My question is:

After 24 hours if the bacteria is destroy the readings should be closer to 0.5?

High CC levels are not normally caused by bacteria. They are caused by organics (usually from sweat, urine, and feces that each bather adds to the tub, no matter how clean they THINK they are) in the water combining with the chlorine.

Can I do my regular tests for f.ch and T.ch after 24Hrs?

IF you are shocking with MPS, no. Stop testing for CC and have faith that it is working. Your nose will be the best test in this case. If there is no strong chloramine smell then it's working. FACT: most people can smell chloriamines when they are above .4 ppm.

Or as long as the smell it's gone water chemistry is fine....?

basically.

This numbers between F.ch and T.ch never come back to normal since the potassium is in the water?

Sorry for this questions but I would like to have complete clear picture of this problem and know what to do in the future.

Thanks

Disinfection byproducts are combined chloramines, not bacteria, just in case there is any confusion in this.

The following tips are for spas that have a problem with perisistant CC readings and strong chloramine smells.

IF you decide to shock with MPS you either ignore the CC readings or get a test kit (Taylor or LaMotte) that can test the MPS levels in the water and/ or remove the interference from MPS. Have faith that the MPS will work and use your nose to determine if it is. If not drain and refill and start over.

Keep the spa uncovered the whole time you are shocking and keep the circulation system going. Aeration is part of the process, as is sunlight.

If you are shocking with chlorine and have an ozonator turn off the ozone a day before, uncover the spa, and run the jets and blower to gas off any ozone since this can and will test as CC if present in the water. There is not supposed to be residual ozone in the water but in many spas there is. Ozone can destroy chlorine and vice versa so part of your chlorine shock can get 'used up' in destroying the ozone residual and you are not left with enough to burn off the CC.

Persistent CC can be hard or impossible to remover. If an extended shock with the cover off and aeration does not work then drain and start over. Be sure to always shock in daytime with the cover off and jets on until the chlorine level returns to normal, usually a few hours, to prevent the buildup of oxidation byproducts (persistant CC) in the water.

IF you don't use the spa for a period of time uncover it at least weekly to let it gas off and shock it weekly if you are not keeping daily tabs on the chlorine level.

Hope this helps.

[styro]

Thanks for all inputs,

Waterbear now all is more clear.

Quantumchromodynamics my ColorQ pro7 it is very accurate and has no Mps test regents.

No, it is not. I have spoken to LaMotte techs about the ColorQ to see if we wanted to carry it in addtion to our other test kits, both LaMotte and Taylor (where I used to work used the Waterlink and I have been certified by LaMotte in their testing system) and the tech said that it does an amazing job FOR THE MONEY. Consider that the Waterlink Express retail to stores for over $1200 and is one of their less expensive "professional" meters. Just because it gives you a readout with a lot of decimal places does not mean it really has that kind of precision. There are also limitations in LaMotte's chemistry itself. (where they have turned titrations into colormetric tests).

LaMotte does make a stand alone Cl/MPS/pH test kit #3360 that uses octa slide comparators so it is in their "professional" line but you are correct that they do not supply an MPS reagent for the colorQ. Taylor does have an MPS interference reagent available for the K2000 series of test kits.

Ozonator is set to do the work 4x 2hrs/day.

If you have any ozone residual in the water this will also test as CC.potassium monopersulfate Well designed systems are not supposed to have any residual ozone by they seem to not really exist anymore because of the cost.

Water still had some chloramine smell but not that strong.

I guess my problem is also because I'm closing my cover after half an hrs after addition of chemicals.

Yep, usually the cause!

Normal prossegger is addition of chemicals water aeration and cover closed after 10-15 min.

How about winter in case of CC High?

In my case when the CC is high I should keep my spa open xposed to sunlight for few hrs like Waterbear mention.(no problem is summer)

Yes, if you have a problem with persistent CC. The disinfection byproducts (nasty and smelly CCs) need to gas off. You won't lose as much heat as you think you will but you will lose some.

I will try this tomorrow.

Thanks

Adam

It can sometimes take more than one shock cycle to get rid of some of the nastier and smellier disinfection byproducts.

Today after a week of trying to get rid of nasty bacteria, I'm still very far from success.

The smell it's almost gone the water is clear, only my numbers are funny.

F.ch 2.48

T.ch 3.90

----------

1.42

If I open my cover that number will probably decrease to around 1.00

Open the cover and keep it off until you are done shocking or you are just spinning your wheels! The disinfection byproducts need to gas off and they cannot do that with the cover on!

Looks like it is not possible for me to go lower then that.

I did add first time 80 grams and then after that 3 times(48 hrs space) 30 grams each time of potassium monopersulfate.( should I do add more?)

My spa was exposed to sunlight for couple of days.

I was also advised by Waterbear to ignore CC readings for 24 hrs.

You misread what I posted. Re read my first post. You either want to shock with chlorine with the cover off and keep the tub at shock level with the cover off until the CC reading is less than .5 ppm (and if you have ozone in the water you could get a false CC reading from the ozone so be aware of that, shutting off the ozone for a day or two AND leaving the spa uncovered would tell you. If the CC drops after shutting off the ozone then you know it's causing interference with your testing.)

OR

you want to do a weekly shock with MPS WITH THE SPA UNCOVERED and just ignore CC readings completely. This usualy works best if started from a fresh fill of the tub.

NOWHERE did I say to ignore CC readings for 24 hours. I said that I have seen often seen the interference last for LONGER than 24 hours.

My question is:

After 24 hours if the bacteria is destroy the readings should be closer to 0.5?

High CC levels are not normally caused by bacteria. They are caused by organics (usually from sweat, urine, and feces that each bather adds to the tub, no matter how clean they THINK they are) in the water combining with the chlorine.

Can I do my regular tests for f.ch and T.ch after 24Hrs?

IF you are shocking with MPS, no. Stop testing for CC and have faith that it is working. Your nose will be the best test in this case. If there is no strong chloramine smell then it's working. FACT: most people can smell chloriamines when they are above .4 ppm.

Or as long as the smell it's gone water chemistry is fine....?

basically.

This numbers between F.ch and T.ch never come back to normal since the potassium is in the water?

Sorry for this questions but I would like to have complete clear picture of this problem and know what to do in the future.

Thanks

Disinfection byproducts are combined chloramines, not bacteria, just in case there is any confusion in this.

The following tips are for spas that have a problem with perisistant CC readings and strong chloramine smells.

IF you decide to shock with MPS you either ignore the CC readings or get a test kit (Taylor or LaMotte) that can test the MPS levels in the water and/ or remove the interference from MPS. Have faith that the MPS will work and use your nose to determine if it is. If not drain and refill and start over.

Keep the spa uncovered the whole time you are shocking and keep the circulation system going. Aeration is part of the process, as is sunlight.

If you are shocking with chlorine and have an ozonator turn off the ozone a day before, uncover the spa, and run the jets and blower to gas off any ozone since this can and will test as CC if present in the water. There is not supposed to be residual ozone in the water but in many spas there is. Ozone can destroy chlorine and vice versa so part of your chlorine shock can get 'used up' in destroying the ozone residual and you are not left with enough to burn off the CC.

Persistent CC can be hard or impossible to remover. If an extended shock with the cover off and aeration does not work then drain and start over. Be sure to always shock in daytime with the cover off and jets on until the chlorine level returns to normal, usually a few hours, to prevent the buildup of oxidation byproducts (persistant CC) in the water.

IF you don't use the spa for a period of time uncover it at least weekly to let it gas off and shock it weekly if you are not keeping daily tabs on the chlorine level.

Hope this helps.

IF you decide to shock with MPS you either ignore the CC readings or get a test kit (Taylor or LaMotte) that can test the MPS levels in the water and/ or remove the interference from MPS. Have faith that the MPS will work and use your nose to determine if it is. If not drain and refill and start over.

Keep the spa uncovered the whole time you are shocking and keep the circulation system going. Aeration is part of the process, as is sunlight.

Let say I decide to SHOCK with Mps once a week or by weekly, because of interference from MPS I won't be able to use my regular test from now one for T.ch at all.

Since the reading won't be accurate.

(CC)Combine.Ch readings = Total.ch - Free.ch ??

I have a picture now.

I will use my regular chlorination with virox daily.

Once a week Shock with MPS or when I need it.

No more testing for T.ch

Please correct me if I missed anything.

Thank you

[waterbear]

I will use my regular chlorination with virox daily.

I also have the picture now.

Virox is, if I am not mistaken, hydrogen peroxide. This will also test as CC and could be the reason for your problems, particularly in conjunction with ozone. Anyway, it is counterproductive to mix chlorine with peroxide, they destroy each other so you are just wasting chemicals.

Why not just try plain chlorine without all the 'extras' (peroxide, MPS, and Ozone). I believe it will solve a lot, if not all, of your problems.

Once you learn how to maintain your tub on plain chlorine then try adding the ozone to see if it decreases or increases your chlorine usage. It can have either effect, depending on tub usage.

[styro]

I will use my regular chlorination with virox daily.

I also have the picture now.

Virox is, if I am not mistaken, hydrogen peroxide. This will also test as CC and could be the reason for your problems, particularly in conjunction with ozone. Anyway, it is counterproductive to mix chlorine with peroxide, they destroy each other so you are just wasting chemicals.

Why not just try plain chlorine without all the 'extras' (peroxide, MPS, and Ozone). I believe it will solve a lot, if not all, of your problems.

Once you learn how to maintain your tub on plain chlorine then try adding the ozone to see if it decreases or increases your chlorine usage. It can have either effect, depending on tub usage.

I will use my regular chlorination with virox daily.

Should be a "blech" Javex

Sorry for mistake

[waterbear]

I can only answer based on the information I am given. If it is not accurate the answers won't be either.

[styro]

Thanks for all inputs,

Waterbear now all is more clear.

Quantumchromodynamics my ColorQ pro7 it is very accurate and has no Mps test regents.

No, it is not. I have spoken to LaMotte techs about the ColorQ to see if we wanted to carry it in addtion to our other test kits, both LaMotte and Taylor (where I used to work used the Waterlink and I have been certified by LaMotte in their testing system) and the tech said that it does an amazing job FOR THE MONEY. Consider that the Waterlink Express retail to stores for over $1200 and is one of their less expensive "professional" meters. Just because it gives you a readout with a lot of decimal places does not mean it really has that kind of precision. There are also limitations in LaMotte's chemistry itself. (where they have turned titrations into colormetric tests).

LaMotte does make a stand alone Cl/MPS/pH test kit #3360 that uses octa slide comparators so it is in their "professional" line but you are correct that they do not supply an MPS reagent for the colorQ. Taylor does have an MPS interference reagent available for the K2000 series of test kits.

Ozonator is set to do the work 4x 2hrs/day.

If you have any ozone residual in the water this will also test as CC.potassium monopersulfate Well designed systems are not supposed to have any residual ozone by they seem to not really exist anymore because of the cost.

Water still had some chloramine smell but not that strong.

I guess my problem is also because I'm closing my cover after half an hrs after addition of chemicals.

Yep, usually the cause!

Normal prossegger is addition of chemicals water aeration and cover closed after 10-15 min.

How about winter in case of CC High?

In my case when the CC is high I should keep my spa open xposed to sunlight for few hrs like Waterbear mention.(no problem is summer)

Yes, if you have a problem with persistent CC. The disinfection byproducts (nasty and smelly CCs) need to gas off. You won't lose as much heat as you think you will but you will lose some.

I will try this tomorrow.

Thanks

Adam

It can sometimes take more than one shock cycle to get rid of some of the nastier and smellier disinfection byproducts.

Today after a week of trying to get rid of nasty bacteria, I'm still very far from success.

The smell it's almost gone the water is clear, only my numbers are funny.

F.ch 2.48

T.ch 3.90

----------

1.42

If I open my cover that number will probably decrease to around 1.00

Open the cover and keep it off until you are done shocking or you are just spinning your wheels! The disinfection byproducts need to gas off and they cannot do that with the cover on!

Looks like it is not possible for me to go lower then that.

I did add first time 80 grams and then after that 3 times(48 hrs space) 30 grams each time of potassium monopersulfate.( should I do add more?)

My spa was exposed to sunlight for couple of days.

I was also advised by Waterbear to ignore CC readings for 24 hrs.

You misread what I posted. Re read my first post. You either want to shock with chlorine with the cover off and keep the tub at shock level with the cover off until the CC reading is less than .5 ppm (and if you have ozone in the water you could get a false CC reading from the ozone so be aware of that, shutting off the ozone for a day or two AND leaving the spa uncovered would tell you. If the CC drops after shutting off the ozone then you know it's causing interference with your testing.)

OR

you want to do a weekly shock with MPS WITH THE SPA UNCOVERED and just ignore CC readings completely. This usualy works best if started from a fresh fill of the tub.

NOWHERE did I say to ignore CC readings for 24 hours. I said that I have seen often seen the interference last for LONGER than 24 hours.

My question is:

After 24 hours if the bacteria is destroy the readings should be closer to 0.5?

High CC levels are not normally caused by bacteria. They are caused by organics (usually from sweat, urine, and feces that each bather adds to the tub, no matter how clean they THINK they are) in the water combining with the chlorine.

Can I do my regular tests for f.ch and T.ch after 24Hrs?

IF you are shocking with MPS, no. Stop testing for CC and have faith that it is working. Your nose will be the best test in this case. If there is no strong chloramine smell then it's working. FACT: most people can smell chloriamines when they are above .4 ppm.

Or as long as the smell it's gone water chemistry is fine....?

basically.

This numbers between F.ch and T.ch never come back to normal since the potassium is in the water?

Sorry for this questions but I would like to have complete clear picture of this problem and know what to do in the future.

Thanks

Disinfection byproducts are combined chloramines, not bacteria, just in case there is any confusion in this.

The following tips are for spas that have a problem with perisistant CC readings and strong chloramine smells.

IF you decide to shock with MPS you either ignore the CC readings or get a test kit (Taylor or LaMotte) that can test the MPS levels in the water and/ or remove the interference from MPS. Have faith that the MPS will work and use your nose to determine if it is. If not drain and refill and start over.

Keep the spa uncovered the whole time you are shocking and keep the circulation system going. Aeration is part of the process, as is sunlight.

If you are shocking with chlorine and have an ozonator turn off the ozone a day before, uncover the spa, and run the jets and blower to gas off any ozone since this can and will test as CC if present in the water. There is not supposed to be residual ozone in the water but in many spas there is. Ozone can destroy chlorine and vice versa so part of your chlorine shock can get 'used up' in destroying the ozone residual and you are not left with enough to burn off the CC.

Persistent CC can be hard or impossible to remover. If an extended shock with the cover off and aeration does not work then drain and start over. Be sure to always shock in daytime with the cover off and jets on until the chlorine level returns to normal, usually a few hours, to prevent the buildup of oxidation byproducts (persistant CC) in the water.

IF you don't use the spa for a period of time uncover it at least weekly to let it gas off and shock it weekly if you are not keeping daily tabs on the chlorine level.

Hope this helps.

IF you decide to shock with MPS you either ignore the CC readings or get a test kit (Taylor or LaMotte) that can test the MPS levels in the water and/ or remove the interference from MPS. Have faith that the MPS will work and use your nose to determine if it is. If not drain and refill and start over.

Keep the spa uncovered the whole time you are shocking and keep the circulation system going. Aeration is part of the process, as is sunlight.

Let say I decide to SHOCK with Mps once a week or by weekly, because of interference from MPS I won't be able to use my regular test from now one for T.ch at all.

Since the reading won't be accurate.

(CC)Combine.Ch readings = Total.ch - Free.ch ??

I have a picture now.

I will use my regular chlorination with virox daily.

Once a week Shock with MPS or when I need it.

No more testing for T.ch

Please correct me if I missed anything.

Thank you

:D Corrected Text as follow:

Let say I decide to SHOCK with Mps once a week or by weekly, because of interference from MPS I won't be able to use my regular test from now one for T.ch at all.

Since the reading won't be accurate.

(CC)Combine.Ch readings = Total.ch - Free.ch ??

I have a picture now.

I will use my regular chlorination with BLEACH daily.

Once a week Shock with MPS or when I need it.

No more testing for T.ch

Please correct me if I missed anything.

Thank you

[waterbear]

I have a picture now.

I will use my regular chlorination with BLEACH daily.

Once a week Shock with MPS or when I need it.

No more testing for T.ch

Please correct me if I missed anything.

Thank you

be sure to leave the spa uncovered when shocking. (and it is not necessary to quote the entire post when repsonding, it makes things cluttered and difficult to follow)