Jump to content

Importance Of A Good Test Kit


Recommended Posts

It is very important that every pool owner obtain a good test kit and test there water even if they are taking there water to pool store for testing. The pool store test can be wrong as I just experienced. I am using a Taylor K-2006 complete (fas-dpd chlorine) test kit (which this forum recommends) and I cannot say how glad I am using this to test my water. I tested my water today at 5:00 pm EST and then took a fresh sample to pool store to compare testings. My test revealed the following:

PH 7.7

FC 3

CC <.5

Alk 175 -180

CH 275-300

CYA 100

The pool store results:

Temp 80

TDS 1300

PH 7.8

FC 1.1

TC 1.1

Alk 116 ( too low!!! and advised me to add 16 lbs of Balance Pak 100)

Adj. Total alk 71

Tot hardness 325

Sat index 0.3

Cya 151

I disagree with the pool stores Alkalinity testing too low. In fact I just tested the alkalinity again (3 times today) and I am getting alkalinity coming up bit high at 175-180 every test I did! WTF?!! I can see being a little off either high or low one way but not a completely opposing reading saying alkalinity is low. So I am going with my reading on alkalinity and leaving it alone and just bringing down my PH a bit as I will be shocking with liquid chlorine later. I know CYA testing done at pool stores are difficult if not wrong most of the time. How true!! But how can they be so off with my alkalinity????

Salt n/a

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Total Alkalinity (TA) test, as well as some others (such as the calcium hardness, CH, test), can develop static on the dropper tips. If the drops are not coming out as well-formed good-sized drops that hang before detaching, then wipe the dropper tip with a damp cloth or tissue. Static will make the drops squirt out and be too small. Odds are that the pool store testing is wrong, but you should make sure you don't have static, just in case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Chemgeek! I will do that. FYI, I did have the water tested from the pool store this morning. Here are pool store results from this morning:

Temp 78

Sat index 0.5

TDS 1800

CYA 138

TC 3.2

FC 3.2

PH 7.9

Tot Alk 157

Adj. Tot Alk 116

Tot Hardness 260

Salt N/A

As you can see from there test yesterday there Total Alkalinity went from 116 to 157 and there Adj. Total Alk went from 71 to 116. I did not add any Alkalinity increaser (they said to add 16 lbs of Balance Pak 100 I did not). Last night I added about 3 lbs of low and slow and brought my PH down to 7.5-7.6 Later I added a little bit of liquid bleach (maybe 2 cups). I tested b4 i went to bed and my results were:

PH 7.6

FC 4

CC <.5

Tot Alk. 175

CH 275-300

What conclusipns can you draw from this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just tested water myself with Taylor test kit.

7-16-10. 4:20 pm

Fc 3.5

Cc <.5

Ph 7.6

TA 175

CH 375

Look ok?

Swimming tomorrow and Sunday is pool party :) Want to shock tonight with liquid chlorine. First I will bring my ph down a bit. I just picked up a gallon of muriatic acid. How much lower should I bring my ph first before I shock?

Pool color is amazing clear and blue!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You didn't say the size of your pool. Low and Slow is sodium bisulfate. With your numbers and adding 3 pounds of dry acid and going from 7.9 to 7.6 I estimate your pool volume to be around 20,000 gallons though that's a very rough estimate since the pH tests are +/- 0.1 or so which could throw this estimate off and volume might be more like 15,000 gallons which would be more typical. The TA from such an acid addition would be only 9.3 ppm so probably not very noticeable in your tests.

You might consider using Muriatic Acid instead. If you want to reduce the amount of fuming, you can use half-strength Muriatic Acid which is 15-16% Hydrochloric Acid compared to full-strength which is 31.45% Hydrochloric Acid.

Your CYA level is high at 100 ppm so you need to keep a higher FC level to prevent algae growth unless you are lucky enough to have a pool poor in algae nutrients.

If you are going to shock the pool above 10 ppm FC then lower the pH first to around 7.2. With your high TA, the consumption of chlorine won't have the pH drop all the way down to 7.2. Also, why are you shocking the pool? Just get the FC level up to 10 ppm to start with and enjoy the party. You don't need to shock the pool unless your water is dull or cloudy or you have CC > 0.5 ppm or an overnight FC loss > 1 ppm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pool is approximately 24,000 gallons. I want to shock pool to bring chlorine level up. I have the muriatic acid to lower Ph first. I will use pool calculator to determine how much of the liquid acid to add to lower Ph to 7.2. Sound right?

You didn't say the size of your pool. Low and Slow is sodium bisulfate. With your numbers and adding 3 pounds of dry acid and going from 7.9 to 7.6 I estimate your pool volume to be around 20,000 gallons though that's a very rough estimate since the pH tests are +/- 0.1 or so which could throw this estimate off and volume might be more like 15,000 gallons which would be more typical. The TA from such an acid addition would be only 9.3 ppm so probably not very noticeable in your tests.

You might consider using Muriatic Acid instead. If you want to reduce the amount of fuming, you can use half-strength Muriatic Acid which is 15-16% Hydrochloric Acid compared to full-strength which is 31.45% Hydrochloric Acid.

Your CYA level is high at 100 ppm so you need to keep a higher FC level to prevent algae growth unless you are lucky enough to have a pool poor in algae nutrients.

If you are going to shock the pool above 10 ppm FC then lower the pH first to around 7.2. With your high TA, the consumption of chlorine won't have the pH drop all the way down to 7.2. Also, why are you shocking the pool? Just get the FC level up to 10 ppm to start with and enjoy the party. You don't need to shock the pool unless your water is dull or cloudy or you have CC > 0.5 ppm or an overnight FC loss > 1 ppm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my initial 20,000 gallon estimate wasn't bad after all -- you've got a larger pool. Yes, just use The Pool Calculator to calculate how much acid to lower the pH, though even 7.3 would be OK since you won't be shocking very high. Then add chlorine to the pool to get the FC up and add more each day as needed through the weekend and enjoy the pool!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not bad at all! Pretty pretty pretty good!! BULLSEYE! on the pool calculator! Shot for the 7.3 PH and used 24 ounces of muriatic acid. BULLSEYE 7.3 using taylor test kit! Using pool calculator again I shot for 10 FC added 167 ounces of liquid chlorine and later tested with the Taylor and BULLSEYE! FC 10. PH is now 7.5-7.6 This stuff really works!

Thus, "the importance of a good test kit!"

Thanks again! I am going to enjoy pool for the weekend!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

The Total Alkalinity (TA) test, as well as some others (such as the calcium hardness, CH, test), can develop static on the dropper tips. If the drops are not coming out as well-formed good-sized drops that hang before detaching, then wipe the dropper tip with a damp cloth or tissue. Static will make the drops squirt out and be too small. Odds are that the pool store testing is wrong, but you should make sure you don't have static, just in case.

Do you recommend the Aqua Chek Aqua Chek Trutest Digital Rdr?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='primo' date='15

Tot hardness 325

You went to a bioguard dealer to have your water tested (Balance Pak 100 is Bioguard's overpriced baking soda).

Bioguard dealers often use strip readers, strips don't measure calcium hardness, only total hardness which is what was tested for you, total hardness is a meaningless measurement for swimming pools, strip readers are notorious for for inaccurate results.

The Bioguard ALEX software water analysis system is notorious for overdosing on chemicals that are not needed, it was designed to maximize sales for the dealers and the testing is too often done with strips and the accu-scan strip reader, this is how I suspect your water was tested. Most dealers don't use the wet lab and titrations for water testing because it takes MUCH longer than strips and the results have to be manually entered into the computer for the ALEX software to overdose you on chems and maximize the dealer's profits.

Are you getting the picture why the dealer testing is not in line with yours?

Here is a quote from Chemtura's website (Chemtura is the parent company for Bioguard, Omni, Sun, Hydrotech, Soft Swim, and the mass market brands AquaChem and Pooltime)(emphasis mine)

"One of the best ways to sell BioGuard products is through our exclusive, cutting-edge water-testing tools ALEX® and Accu-Scan®. ALEX is revolutionary software that analyzes test results, figures proper treatment and yields product suggestions and instructions. Accu-Scan is the actual unit that reads the test strip using color reflectance"

If it's not the Alex system it s LaMotte WaterLink (a professional version of the ColorQ that costs over $1200, says a lot of what to expect from the ColorQ which costs about 1/10 of that--remember you DO get what you pay for. If you want a LaMotte kit get their liquid reagent ones, not the tablet ones...They DO have an FAS-DPD kit now that is comparable to the Taylor K-2006). While the Waterlink system is not inherently bad but does have some limitations compared to titrations, the Datamate software can be also set to maximize sales by overdosing on chems and it often is. The main reason store use this system or the strip readers is that a full set of water tests can be done in 3 minutes or less and produce a printout that lists a LOT of chems that are needed so sales are maximized with minimin time invested. While this is a good business model for pool stores it is not a good model for pool owners trying to balance their pools or solve problems without breaking the bank.

Now you should be getting the picture!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pool is approximately 24,000 gallons. I want to shock pool to bring chlorine level up. I have the muriatic acid to lower Ph first. I will use pool calculator to determine how much of the liquid acid to add to lower Ph to 7.2. Sound right?

Why not just use the acid demand test in your Taylor K-2006. That is what the test is for and it will be more accurate than the pool calculator can be. If you have the test use it. The pool calculator gives you a "guesstimate" recommended amount of acid to lower pH out of necessity. The author of the pool calculator is the admin of the forum owned by the manufacturer of a test kit that does not not include acid and base demand tests (TF100).

This kit is heavily promoted on said forum owned by the kit manufacturer, no surprise here.

Your Taylor kit (and most of the better LaMotte kits) do include acid and base demand tests so you can calculate the exact amount of acid you need to add to lower the pH to a specific point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“Manufacturer” is too strong a word, “repackager” is more appropriate.

And this is why you can’t compare the TF-100 with a Taylor K-2006 on the basis of reagent size alone.

The K-2006 comes with a better comparator block, with Acid Demand and Base Demand tests, with a water balance calculator (the Watergram tm), a better carrying case (the new ones are awesome), better design that minimizes errors (color coded caps, instructions etc) and with a Water Testing and Treatment Guide.

And this is important, you also get Taylor quality end-to-end (consistent quality in the labeling, the labware, the droppers etc), traceable lot numbers on the individual reagents; it remains uncertain, for example, how the integrity of the reagents is assured with the TF-100, or how the repouring process is handled.

And I won’t get into the whole MSDS thing or the CoAs that Taylor can supply.

You’re buying a TF-100 to gain independence from the PS but you then you’re dependant on two web sites for advice. There’s no Internet in the pump room where I work.

They're not including stuff from a K-2006 because they deem they are not important to you, and then adding stuff not included in the K-2006 (OTO). Then they compare the two kits. Guess who wins. They should be comparing the TF-100 ($68) to an K-1005 ($19) supplemented by DPD-FAS reagents ($12). For $31 you get pH, acid demand, base demand, dpd chlorine (not OTO), dpd-fas chlorine, cya, calcium hardness, alkalinity, treatment tables, a booklet on basic chemistry, and Taylor quality end-to-end. That's where the comparaison point should be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Total Alkalinity (TA) test, as well as some others (such as the calcium hardness, CH, test), can develop static on the dropper tips. If the drops are not coming out as well-formed good-sized drops that hang before detaching, then wipe the dropper tip with a damp cloth or tissue. Static will make the drops squirt out and be too small. Odds are that the pool store testing is wrong, but you should make sure you don't have static, just in case.

Do you recommend the Aqua Chek Aqua Chek Trutest Digital Rdr?

I do not recomend Aqua Chek digital tester. I had one and returned it as i felt it was very unreliable if not inaccurate results! I read the directions and followed and compared every Aqua check test to my Taylor tests and they were not even close! Believe me...I did many tests with the Taylor and the Aqua Chek side by side. In fact the Aqua Chek reader even contradicted itself giving different results when an additional test was done soon after. Yes, i rinsed each test kit after every test. I cleaned Aqua Cheks scanner bar after each test with a new Q-Tip every time and was careful not to slide the strip but lower it on a 45 degree angle onto the scanner bar as instructed. A nice feature Aqua Chek had was that it could save several test results but it only served as a constant reminder to me of how contradicting their tests results only now look! Sorry! I love my Taylor test kit because it works!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pool is approximately 24,000 gallons. I want to shock pool to bring chlorine level up. I have the muriatic acid to lower Ph first. I will use pool calculator to determine how much of the liquid acid to add to lower Ph to 7.2. Sound right?

Why not just use the acid demand test in your Taylor K-2006. That is what the test is for and it will be more accurate than the pool calculator can be. If you have the test use it. The pool calculator gives you a "guesstimate" recommended amount of acid to lower pH out of necessity. The author of the pool calculator is the admin of the forum owned by the manufacturer of a test kit that does not not include acid and base demand tests (TF100).

This kit is heavily promoted on said forum owned by the kit manufacturer, no surprise here.

Your Taylor kit (and most of the better LaMotte kits) do include acid and base demand tests so you can calculate the exact amount of acid you need to add to lower the pH to a specific point.

Thanks Waterbear!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have both the Taylor K-2006 and the TFTestkits TF-100 and like certain aspects of both. I do prefer the pH test in the Taylor kit and I occasionally use the acid/base tests either to move the pH colors around for verification or for a true acid demand. However, I like the CYA test in the TF-100 that goes down to 20 ppm and uses a separate viewing tube (Taylor has a separate kit that does this as well) and I like the larger volume of reagents provided for the most commonly used tests in the TF-100 kit. One can, of course, mix and match to create their own ideal kit. For example, getting the Taylor K-2006 plus the TFTestkits Cyanuric Acid test plus some extra DPD powder and FAS-DPD titrating reagent would be perfect for my needs -- but everyone's needs are a little different. The Taylor K-1720 is far more expensive than the TFTestkits equivalent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Taylor K-1720 is far more expensive than the TFTestkits equivalent.

But a Taylor CYA view tube 9193 (same one in the TF100) is only $2.55 from Taylor, the large mixing vial 9194 is $2.35 and CYA reagent is $9.35 a pint and $13.85 a quart. This is $14.22 for a CYA kit with 16 oz of reagent or $18.75 for 32 oz of reagent. This beats the $17 for the TF test kit's CYA kit that only comes with 8 oz of reagent and a "homemade" mixing vial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again the point is that you can't compare Taylor to some repackaged test kit that comes with labware of unknown quality (and provenance) with reagents refilled using unknown methods. I'm sure Taylor has spent considerable time and effort in getting the quality controls in place, then all that goes out the door because of the third-party repackaging process.

Buy the Taylor R-0009s and R-0012s in pint or quart sizes and repour your own, there are considerable savings to be made this way too.

There is the appearance of a better deal with the TF100, but as Waterbear pointed out, when you compare apples with apples, and when you dig a little deeper, that's not the case.

That statement I keep reading about the "38% more reagent so the cost per test is less" is very very misleading.

I also remember reading some poster on that forum saying "You can get a K-2006 but I don't recommend it". Just floors me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again the point is that you can't compare Taylor to some repackaged test kit that comes with labware of unknown quality (and provenance) with reagents refilled using unknown methods. I'm sure Taylor has spent considerable time and effort in getting the quality controls in place, then all that goes out the door because of the third-party repackaging process.

Buy the Taylor R-0009s and R-0012s in pint or quart sizes and repour your own, there are considerable savings to be made this way too.

There is the appearance of a better deal with the TF100, but as Waterbear pointed out, when you compare apples with apples, and when you dig a little deeper, that's not the case.

That statement I keep reading about the "38% more reagent so the cost per test is less" is very very misleading.

I also remember reading some poster on that forum saying "You can get a K-2006 but I don't recommend it". Just floors me.

rolleyes.gif Well, you have to consider who owns that forum and if they have any ulterior motives, such as selling test kits and reagents so that place cannot be considered 'unbiased'.

FWIW, I am the one that wrote the test kit comparison in their pool school section and it was purposely biased in favor of the TF100 to help Dave get his business off the ground. At that time he was NOT the owner of that forum but an independent. If I had known how things were going to play out...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But a Taylor CYA view tube 9193 (same one in the TF100) is only $2.55 from Taylor, the large mixing vial 9194 is $2.35 and CYA reagent is $9.35 a pint and $13.85 a quart. This is $14.22 for a CYA kit with 16 oz of reagent or $18.75 for 32 oz of reagent. This beats the $17 for the TF test kit's CYA kit that only comes with 8 oz of reagent and a "homemade" mixing vial.

Wow, that's really weird that Taylor charges so much for the complete kit, but the components are so much less expensive. At Amato Industries you can get the Taylor CYA kit and CYA solutions for less than Taylor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen Dave's description of his process (the serious one, as opposed to the story about foul-mouthed elves) and he exercises a great deal of care in filling bottles and whatnot. More than you are likely to do yourself at home. Also his order fulfilment and turnaround time are faster than you will find anywhere. (I bought his kit, and it arrived cross-country in a few days. I ordered a magnetic stirrer from Taylor, and it didn't even go out their door for a week.)

I am not happy about the relentless promotion on Dave's forum and don't go there so much any more. I think waterbear makes a number of solid points about Dave's kit versus what's available elsewhere. But that does not mean I think his kit is a slap-dash afterthought put together by chimps.

--paulr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That statement I keep reading about the "38% more reagent so the cost per test is less" is very very misleading.

I used to write that before someone found Amato Industries so now I just say it's comparably priced per test. I sometimes link to the comparison chart that waterbear refers to. Like I said, I have both tests and don't find the TF-100 to be flawed in the ways you imply, though obviously there is always a risk when one repackages reagents. For residential pool owners, either the TF-100 or the Taylor K-2006 are a huge step up due to the FAS-DPD chlorine test and having a more complete set of tests than the usual cheap kits that are purchased or test strips. Some people like the packaging and instructions of the TF-100 while others prefer the Taylor K-2006. If you are a professional pool service person, then I can understand getting the Taylor K-2006, but if you are a residential pool owner the TF-100 isn't bad. I already commented on how I prefer certain aspects of the K-2006 better for myself, but others have said they liked the larger pH range in the TF-100 (6.8 to 8.2, though with larger steps in between) and having a quick OTO test to check for chlorine more frequently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...