Bommel Posted December 30, 2006 Report Posted December 30, 2006 Okay Spa Owners...... Your thoughts please on whether the circulation pump is a good thing, and better than the 2 speed main pump, particularly in terms of energy cost, filtration, noise, longevity etc... It seems that only premium range used to have circulation pump, but a number of manufacturers here in Oz only sell their products with Circ pumps now! Your thoughts pls Thanks Quote
dynamictiger Posted December 30, 2006 Report Posted December 30, 2006 Okay Spa Owners...... Your thoughts please on whether the circulation pump is a good thing, and better than the 2 speed main pump, particularly in terms of energy cost, filtration, noise, longevity etc... It seems that only premium range used to have circulation pump, but a number of manufacturers here in Oz only sell their products with Circ pumps now! Your thoughts pls Thanks In Australia consumers did not like two speed pumps so they have gone from the market. If you find one you will be looking at an older model. They went out about 8 years ago. Some spas are using small magnet drive pumps as circulators this is probably a better idea anyway. HTH Quote
Chas Posted December 30, 2006 Report Posted December 30, 2006 G'day. I have sold HS for close to twenty years, but along the way I have sold others with the two-speed pumps. I like both - for different reasons. The two-speed units tend to move more water so you don't have to run the pump 'round the clock. If you are using a Biquanide without ozone that seems to work really well. The small circ pumps, IMO, are much better for use on spas with ozone because they put the ozone into the water 'round the clock. The small circ pump may or may not give you enough filtration by itself. For most folks it seems to work just great. It really depends upon how clean the area around the spa is, how clean the people who use the spa are, and about a dozen other variables. HS provides a simple pushbutton to run ten minutes on one of the big jet pumps, which is about the same as running other spas for an hour or two. It seems to work great - not the only way to skin this cat, but it works fine. Keep in mind that you really don't need to run the extra filtration on days you don't use the tub, which is why HS doesn't put a timeclock on that function - you just punch the button as you exit the spa and it works fine for most folks. In some cases, the spa is subjected to so much dirt, dust and other stuff that it is nice to have a timeclock to run a filtration cycle once or twice a day. Those tubs will cost more to run, but if you can't control the enviornment around the spa, it may be the best way for you to go. I would make my choice of tubs based on other things - such as comfort, longevity of the manufacturer, features vs. your wants/needs/desires etc. Quote
Stevie Posted December 30, 2006 Report Posted December 30, 2006 Great question! I have owned and sold both applications. The question is largely based on the type of circ pump. There's still many manufacturers that utilize the small "fish pump" type of circ pumps that offers very little benefit to the end user. I would look for a quality 48 frame circ pump that will filter 40,000+ gallons per day as these ACTUALLY filter the water and draw less than .6 amps to do so. These pumps are very quiet almost to the point where you can't hear them running when standing right beside the spa. There are still spas that offer a circ pump that really don't circulate the water much at all and more importantly...don't FILTER properly! It baffles me why these companies use these? There isn't really a "cost saving" aspect to a circ pump as both systems operate at a similar rate but the benefits are many. The advantages are better filtration, much quieter, and longer life of the jet pump as it's not turning on and off constantly. It will also provide better ozone obsorbtion into the water as it's constantly moving. If you can own a system that will polish the water 24/7 without increasing your monthly cost with all the above benefits, then the choice is obvious. 24 hour filtration is more of a commercial application and often overkill for residential usage but if it can be done properly and economically with the use of a proper circ pump, then there would be no reason not to have it. Proper filtration lends itself to better quality water and less playing around with chemicals. It's a huge part of ownership and though I do agree with Chas that there are other aspects to this purchase, low maintanance in watercare is a HUGE one to most and the addition of a quality circ pump will pay dividends to you as an owner over the life of the spa. Have a great New Year everyone and all the best in '07! Cheers, Steve Quote
Bommel Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Posted January 2, 2007 Many thanks for your advice and thoughts much appreciated cheers Ben Quote
Trigger Posted January 2, 2007 Report Posted January 2, 2007 The small circ pumps, IMO, are much better for use on spas with ozone because they put the ozone into the water 'round the clock. The small circ pump may or may not give you enough filtration by itself. For most folks it seems to work just great. It really depends upon how clean the area around the spa is, how clean the people who use the spa are, and about a dozen other variables. HS provides a simple pushbutton to run ten minutes on one of the big jet pumps, which is about the same as running other spas for an hour or two. It seems to work great - not the only way to skin this cat, but it works fine. Keep in mind that you really don't need to run the extra filtration on days you don't use the tub, which is why HS doesn't put a timeclock on that function - you just punch the button as you exit the spa and it works fine for most folks. I would make my choice of tubs based on other things - such as comfort, longevity of the manufacturer, features vs. your wants/needs/desires etc. This has been my expereince with a Tiger River Caspain. It has a 24/7 circ pump and CD O3 system. It works great. I have no water care issues at all. My fist tub was a thermal design with no circ pump and I did not care for the larger pumps cycling off and on several times a day. I could hear it turning off and on, and it was a slight annoyance. Quote
Bommel Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Posted January 4, 2007 Well, heres what it has come down too: Sapphire Spa Model - $A 9,700 or the Heritage Model - $A 10,900 The Sapphire has 2 step, whilst the Heritage has 24hr Circ...............so its down to business now! Thanks again for all your advice! Ben. Quote
darkproject2 Posted January 4, 2007 Report Posted January 4, 2007 Hey Bommel, good to see another aussie on the site. I have alos been looking at 'Sapphire spas' (been looking at a floria keys model though) and had the same concerns as Sapphire spa do not use circ pumps, they seem to prefer the 2 stage pump. Was 9700 for the opal or diamond? Currently discusisng price on the floria keys opal, for 8800 with finance. teh seller really does not want to budge on price much. Can find any review on these spas, have you wet tested one? Quote
Bommel Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Posted January 4, 2007 nah, havent tested it mate except for dry runs of course...... and thats importat cos ive got short legs long torse, the mrs has longer legs, short torso, so it has really been important to chk, but i dont think i am game to take the togs in and test but its prob worth while.... the sapphire dealer was really good in terms of info, i have a lot of confidence in him, but the heritage unit itself is prob superior and has 50 water jets (plus 48 airjets) , whereas the sapphire has 44 (plus ten airjets). i think they are fairly equal, the heritage is metal base, the sapphire is wood, heritage is static ozone, sapphire is CD Ozone, the sapphire use metal ball bear jets, the heritage uses nylon ball bearings, both have 100ft cartridge and nice control panel, both use 32amp hardwire. I did find at the Sapphire dealer shop a chart from Melbourne UNi that showed that the 24hr Circ was more expensive than the 2 step filter system running around 4-6hrs per day.........but not sure on the specifics, on the whole, i dont think there is much in it. Both dealers say $A 500-700 to run per year as a base, then upwards based on usage..... i am struggling with determining any other differences of significant consequence, i think ill sleep on it! Quote
darkproject2 Posted January 4, 2007 Report Posted January 4, 2007 what dealer did you speak to? hacing isuses finding a dealr who wither knows enough or will give me a straight answer. sorry for hijacking the post too! Quote
Bommel Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Posted January 4, 2007 Affordable Spa, South Australia, the fella there was Rodney, he was really v.good, the best i have come across when visiting over 11 stores across metro adelaide. Link Quote
Bommel Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Posted January 21, 2007 well, i went with the regency from Heritage Spas thanks everyone for you help! Quote
Praia Posted February 25, 2008 Report Posted February 25, 2008 well, i went with the regency from Heritage Spas thanks everyone for you help! New to this forum but just wanted to say that I am a dealer for Heritage Spas in the UK......any questions regarding their range etc.... fire away Quote
Chas Posted February 25, 2008 Report Posted February 25, 2008 New to this forum but just wanted to say that I am a dealer for Heritage Spas in the UK......any questions regarding their range etc.... fire away Welcome. Quote
cplarsen Posted February 25, 2008 Report Posted February 25, 2008 Get the circ pump. It's worth it just to not have to hear the main pumps come on for heat, and they're cheap to run. 85 watts is not much of an expense. If you look through the forum, there's a few people who are trying to quiet down noisy tubs, when a circ pump would have just eliminated the problem entirely in the first place. Quote
Markee Posted February 26, 2008 Report Posted February 26, 2008 Get the circ pump. It's worth it just to not have to hear the main pumps come on for heat, and they're cheap to run. 85 watts is not much of an expense. If you look through the forum, there's a few people who are trying to quiet down noisy tubs, when a circ pump would have just eliminated the problem entirely in the first place. If it's a quality spa it will be very quiet when the main pumps come on to heat and filter the water. There are several advantages to having a jet pump on low speed filter your water, rather than a circulation pump: 1.) More gallons filtered per day. I know the Marquis filtration system filters close to 24,000 gallons per day, whereas most circ. pump systems filter 5000-7000 gallons per day. Most jet pump filtration systems can be programmed to filter more water if desired, I know the Marquis system can filter over 100,000 gallons per day if the user wished to do so. 2.) Higher flow rates in a jet pump filtration system are able to pull more body oils, hair, skin, and other particles off the surface of the water. Usually 60-80 gallons per minute being pulled from the tub vs. 5-8 gallons being pulled. 3.) Less wear and tear on the equipment. A properly designed jet pump circulation system will only be on 4-6 hours out of the day. Any pump that runs 24/7/365 with no rest will eventually fail. Contrary to popular belief, most circulation pumps are close to the price of a jet pump to replace. I know Laing circ pumps retail for $225-250, most jet pumps retail for $300-375. Quote
IL Parrothead Posted February 26, 2008 Report Posted February 26, 2008 My non-biased reply. I love the Marquis spas, and will probably end up buying an Epic. I still wish they had a circ pump. I've heard their speil. I love their tubs. I still think circ pumps are better. Sorry, Markee. Quote
cplarsen Posted February 26, 2008 Report Posted February 26, 2008 If it's a quality spa it will be very quiet when the main pumps come on to heat and filter the water. I have a quality spa. It's a D1. I'll still take the circ pump. Quote
thestallion Posted February 26, 2008 Report Posted February 26, 2008 They both work. As with most things in life there are trade offs The quietness of the circ pump is great but even the hi flow circ pumps don't turn the water over and break the surface tension the way a large pump on low speed will. And if your bather load increases like a party or the like you can increase the filtering for the day to accommodate the heaver use. Bottom line is each will do the job and each offers advantages over the other but to dismiss either one and to claim one is the far and away better choice is foolish. Quote
cplarsen Posted February 26, 2008 Report Posted February 26, 2008 Sure, I'll grant that. I'd just rather have the quietness of a circ pump. Totally worth it to me given where my tub is located. Wish my neighbors tub had one too. Quote
thestallion Posted February 26, 2008 Report Posted February 26, 2008 Sure, I'll grant that. I'd just rather have the quietness of a circ pump. Totally worth it to me given where my tub is located. Wish my neighbors tub had one too. that's fair, it just comes down to what matters most to you. I will say that there is something credible about water care and higher water turnover with the low speed larger pump just as there to the quietness of the circ pump both just have pluses and minuses. Quote
JohnInSJ Posted February 28, 2008 Report Posted February 28, 2008 This has been my expereince with a Tiger River Caspain. It has a 24/7 circ pump and CD O3 system. It works great. I have no water care issues at all. Me too with my TR caspian... much better water quality, low energy use, quiet. Quote
soakerman Posted February 29, 2008 Report Posted February 29, 2008 This has been my expereince with a Tiger River Caspain. It has a 24/7 circ pump and CD O3 system. It works great. I have no water care issues at all. Me too with my TR caspian... much better water quality, low energy use, quiet. Me to! With my Costco Platinum Elite spa....Much better water quality, low energy use, quiet. Quote
Chris W Posted March 2, 2008 Report Posted March 2, 2008 This has been my expereince with a Tiger River Caspain. It has a 24/7 circ pump and CD O3 system. It works great. I have no water care issues at all. Me too with my TR caspian... much better water quality, low energy use, quiet. Me to! With my Costco Platinum Elite spa....Much better water quality, low energy use, quiet. Me too! With my Down East Windsor SE (Master Spa)....Much better water quality, low energy use, quiet. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I think that both circ and non-circ designs can work well. I think the design that I question the most are the ones with tiny, feeble circ pumps. If your spa is not full foam and is designed to capture equipment waste heat to reduce heat loss, a good sized circ pump that allows for decent filtration and use of the heater element without running the jet motors seems to me to be a logical choice. Chris W Quote
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