Green All Year

[quantumchromodynamics]

No, do not use the tabs.

If possible, get a test kit that will test for free and combined chlorine. Get the Taylor K-2006 if it is available.

You will know if you have ammonia when you add the chlorine as it has that smell that many people refer to as "Chlorine smell".

The most important thing to do is to maintain shock level by adding bleach.

The second most important thing to do is report a full set of current readings, especially cyanuric acid.

[bamamelena]

Thanks Quantum.

I just put 3 tabs in my floater I'll get them back out.

I tested with my strips to see if chlorine was showing, it's not.

[waterbear]

Thanks Quantum.

I just put 3 tabs in my floater I'll get them back out.

I tested with my strips to see if chlorine was showing, it's not.

3 tabs in the floater are not going to do too much either way. That's about a pound of trichlor and in all will add about 8 ppm chlorine and 5 ppm CYA when it is completely dissolved. It's not what you need now but isn't going to really help or hurt.

Listen to quantumchromodynamics, he can talk you through this.. I am leaving on vacation tomorrow morning and will not have a computer.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Leave the tabs in. Once they get wet, you can't put them back in the bucket.

Also, watch the filter pressure and backwash as needed. Don't run the Polaris; the filter will have enough to do without stirring up more junk. What is the filter pressure?

About phosphates:

1) They are not relevant. Ignore them.

2) Bleach does not contain phosphates.

3) Phosphates are reported in parts per billion, whereas most other chemicals are reported in parts per million. Therefore, if the level is reported as 500 ppb, it is really only 0.500 ppm. 500 seems like a big number until you realize that it is reported in different units. 500 seems much more scary and helps sell lots of phosphate remover.

How much bleach have you added? The algae will eat it up fast. The sun will also consume it rapidly if the cyanuric acid is low. Keep adding bleach. Consistency is the key.

If you can't get a good test kit, at least get a cheap OTO chlorine test kit. This is the kind that you can find at any place that carries any type of pool supplies. Wal-mart etc. OTO won't bleach out and can help determine if you actually have any chlorine or not.

[bamamelena]

Leave the tabs in. Once they get wet, you can't put them back in the bucket.

Also, watch the filter pressure and backwash as needed. Don't run the Polaris; the filter will have enough to do without stirring up more junk. What is the filter pressure?

About phosphates:

1) They are not relevant. Ignore them.

2) Bleach does not contain phosphates.

3) Phosphates are reported in parts per billion, whereas most other chemicals are reported in parts per million. Therefore, if the level is reported as 500 ppb, it is really only 0.500 ppm. 500 seems like a big number until you realize that it is reported in different units. 500 seems much more scary and helps sell lots of phosphate remover.

How much bleach have you added? The algae will eat it up fast. The sun will also consume it rapidly if the cyanuric acid is low. Keep adding bleach. Consistency is the key.

If you can't get a good test kit, at least get a cheap OTO chlorine test kit. This is the kind that you can find at any place that carries any type of pool supplies. Wal-mart etc. OTO won't bleach out and can help determine if you actually have any chlorine or not.

I'm pretty sure my pressure gauge is broken, but I'll check it again I do know that my husband remarked that the jets were pushing the water around more rapidly than they had been, the ripples were greater in other words.

I added 3 gallons of bleach tonight. Have 3 more gallons that I was going to add tomorrow in the daylight. When you say OTO kit do you mean the kind where you put the yellow and red color stuff to test the water? If so I have one of those.

[quantumchromodynamics]

I'm pretty sure my pressure gauge is broken, but I'll check it again I do know that my husband remarked that the jets were pushing the water around more rapidly than they had been, the ripples were greater in other words.

Replace the gauge when you can. You should be able to tell when to backwash when the water stops moving and the pump seems to be straining.

I added 3 gallons of bleach tonight. Have 3 more gallons that I was going to add tomorrow in the daylight. When you say OTO kit do you mean the kind where you put the yellow and red color stuff to test the water? If so I have one of those.

Yes, my concern is that your other chlorine test might be bleaching out. If the chlorine is really high, some tests will "bleach-out" and read as low or no chlorine when the chlorine is actually high. OTO won't bleach out and can help prevent this type of error.

A caution about floating feeders:

Many people use them and report satisfactory results. However, I have seen some cases where undissolved trichlor has fallen out of the feeder and caused bleach stains on the liner. The tablets were probably cheap tabs. I generally recommend that people not use the floating feeders. If you like to use the feeder, then that's fine.

Also, when you get your cyanuric acid tested, if the level is less than 20 ppm, you should pick up about 10 pounds of dichlor. I will advise about what to add based on the test results.

[bamamelena]

Waterbear, have a fun and safe trip!

[bamamelena]

Replace the gauge when you can. You should be able to tell when to backwash when the water stops moving and the pump seems to be straining.

The clear thing is still working, I can still tell when we go from green to clear when we backwash.

Yes, my concern is that your other chlorine test might be bleaching out. If the chlorine is really high, some tests will "bleach-out" and read as low or no chlorine when the chlorine is actually high. OTO won't bleach out and can help prevent this type of error.

A caution about floating feeders:

Many people use them and report satisfactory results. However, I have seen some cases where undissolved trichlor has fallen out of the feeder and caused bleach stains on the liner. The tablets were probably cheap tabs. I generally recommend that people not use the floating feeders. If you like to use the feeder, then that's fine.

Also, when you get your cyanuric acid tested, if the level is less than 20 ppm, you should pick up about 10 pounds of dichlor. I will advise about what to add based on the test results.

I tested with the OTO kit tonight. Chlorine was a little on the high side, PH was normal. I don't ''have'' to have the floater, we just got it last year at the end of the season. I actually have a feeder on my pump, but I'm told you have to have those special packs, and we can't get the dang thing open anyway.

[quantumchromodynamics]

OK, it looks like the strips are bleaching out and not showing any chlorine. The OTO is a good verifier. Keep the chlorine at shock level by adding bleach as needed.

[bamamelena]

OK, it looks like the strips are bleaching out and not showing any chlorine. The OTO is a good verifier. Keep the chlorine at shock level by adding bleach as needed.

Is it eventually going to not be green? I didn't add any more bleach tonight, planning on adding it tomorrow.

[bamamelena]

Here are my current numbers:

FC .84

TC 1.62

PH 7.69

CYA 8

ALK 125

CAL 275

The pool is looking a lighter green today. I put more bleach in earlier. I have the chlorine shock that has the stabilizer in it, is that what you mean by dichlor??

[quantumchromodynamics]

I have the chlorine shock that has the stabilizer in it, is that what you mean by dichlor??

Look at the ingredient information on the label; it should say Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione or Dichloroisocyanuric acid.

There is a granular trichlor, but you do not want that.

I see that your calcium is now at 275 where earlier it was at 90. That makes a big difference as far as risk of scaling goes. One of the reasons I initially wanted to lower the pH was concern for scaling. I had a feeling that the calcium might be higher than 90 ppm.

Right now, you want to add 3 pounds of dichlor. Mix the dichlor in water before adding it to the pool. Mix a maximum of 1 pound of dichlor to 4 gallons of water in a plastic, 5-gallon bucket. Do not allow any granules to go into the water. Tomorrow, add another two pounds of dichlor.

After using a total of 5 pounds of dichlor, switch back over to bleach.

Is it eventually going to not be green?

As long as you maintain the chlorine and keep filtering, the pool will clear. You need to maintain 10 to 15 ppm chlorine at all times.

I would like to reiterate that getting your own good test kit is the absolute best decision you can make. You will have the best quality water you have ever had and you will spend far less time and money than you ever have. Your current test kit and strips are not going to be able to give you enough information to give you the best results.

Are the current numbers before or after you added the bleach?

[bamamelena]

I have the chlorine shock that has the stabilizer in it, is that what you mean by dichlor??

Look at the ingredient information on the label; it should say Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione or Dichloroisocyanuric acid.

There is a granular trichlor, but you do not want that.

I see that your calcium is now at 275 where earlier it was at 90. That makes a big difference as far as risk of scaling goes. One of the reasons I initially wanted to lower the pH was concern for scaling. I had a feeling that the calcium might be higher than 90 ppm.

Right now, you want to add 3 pounds of dichlor. Mix the dichlor in water before adding it to the pool. Mix a maximum of 1 pound of dichlor to 4 gallons of water in a plastic, 5-gallon bucket. Do not allow any granules to go into the water. Tomorrow, add another two pounds of dichlor.

After using a total of 5 pounds of dichlor, switch back over to bleach.

Is it eventually going to not be green?

As long as you maintain the chlorine and keep filtering, the pool will clear. You need to maintain 10 to 15 ppm chlorine at all times.

I would like to reiterate that getting your own good test kit is the absolute best decision you can make. You will have the best quality water you have ever had and you will spend far less time and money than you ever have. Your current test kit and strips are not going to be able to give you enough information to give you the best results.

Are the current numbers before or after you added the bleach?

We have the Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione, but it is granular, I'm thinking, but it's the only kind of shock/chlorine I've ever bought. It's in a bucket. The pool store did tell me to mix my shock up with water.

I will look into getting our own test kit, thanks for that info.

The test results are after I added the bleach last night but before I added the bleach this afternoon.

I'm going out to put the shock in in a little while. Thanks again for the help!!

[bamamelena]

As long as you maintain the chlorine and keep filtering

When you say keep filtering, you mean cleaning out the filter, backwashing, etc, correct?

[quantumchromodynamics]

Yes, let the filter run continuously. Backwash as needed. It would be a big help to be able to know the pressure. Therefore, if you can get the gauge changed, that would help a lot.

One problem that you're going to have is that your test kit does not have the ability to measure the chlorine with enough precision and accuracy. It also cannot distinguish between free chlorine and combined chlorine. If your chlorine goes below 10 ppm, it will be too low. And, if it goes above 15, it will be too high. I highly recommend that you get a FAS-DPD test kit.

How much junk do you think is on the bottom? Once we start to get clearer water, we will need to come up with a plan to deal with the stuff on the bottom. A deep net will be helpful. Being able to vacuum to waste will also be helpful. What kinds of things do you think are on the bottom? Do you think that there will be anything that will be a big problem?

When you backwash, does it look like the backwash water contains a lot of stuff?

[bamamelena]

Yes, let the filter run continuously. Backwash as needed. It would be a big help to be able to know the pressure. Therefore, if you can get the gauge changed, that would help a lot.

One problem that you're going to have is that your test kit does not have the ability to measure the chlorine with enough precision and accuracy. It also cannot distinguish between free chlorine and combined chlorine. If your chlorine goes below 10 ppm, it will be too low. And, if it goes above 15, it will be too high. I highly recommend that you get a FAS-DPD test kit.

How much junk do you think is on the bottom? Once we start to get clearer water, we will need to come up with a plan to deal with the stuff on the bottom. A deep net will be helpful. Being able to vacuum to waste will also be helpful. What kinds of things do you think are on the bottom? Do you think that there will be anything that will be a big problem?

When you backwash, does it look like the backwash water contains a lot of stuff?

You can only get those test kits online or from a pool supply place, right? Not from a local pool place?

As for the bottom....I'm hoping there's not too much junk. I worked for 2wks vacuuming to waste, getting leaves, etc out. I also used (until I lost the 2 bags in the deep) one of those leaf bagger things. I figure my biggest issue will be vacuuming to get the dead algae out at this point.

There wasn't much change today. I tested my water last night with my test kit, and the chlorine/PH levels were about the same as they were the night before, chlorine was just a little higher.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Most local pool places do not carry the FAS-DPD test kits, but they can order them. You might find a local store that carries them, so it's worth asking. http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/Pool-Chemicals/Water-Testing/Test-Kits/Chlorine-FAS-DPD-Service-Test-Kit/D/30100/P/1:100:1000:4000:400000/I/81329

http://www.tftestkits.net/ has a good reputation for fast shipping and good service. Get the TF-100

http://www.amatoind.com/taylor-k2006-test-p-555.html has a good price on the k-2006.

Do you think that your filter is working properly? It's hard to tell without a good pressure gauge. You can get a new gauge at any pool or hardware store.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Once you get your FAS-DPD test kit, adjust the pH to 7.3 and then maintain a free chlorine level of 10 to 15 ppm at all times. Also, report Combined Chlorine if there is any. When the Free Chlorine gets down to 10 ppm, add enough bleach to raise it back up to 15 ppm. Continue to do this until:

1) Your water is clear.

2) Your overnight loss of free chlorine is 1.0 ppm or less and

3) Your level of combined chlorine is 0.5 or less.

Watch your filter pressure and backwash as needed. There should be a significant pressure drop after backwashing if your filter is working properly.

Here is a page of interesting demo videos that show how to use the K-2006.

Scroll down the page and click on the video titled "How to Test (Free and Combined) Chlorine using FAS-DPD [updated 3/5/10]"

[bamamelena]

Once you get your FAS-DPD test kit, adjust the pH to 7.3 and then maintain a free chlorine level of 10 to 15 ppm at all times. Also, report Combined Chlorine if there is any. When the Free Chlorine gets down to 10 ppm, add enough bleach to raise it back up to 15 ppm. Continue to do this until:

1) Your water is clear.

2) Your overnight loss of free chlorine is 1.0 ppm or less and

3) Your level of combined chlorine is 0.5 or less.

Watch your filter pressure and backwash as needed. There should be a significant pressure drop after backwashing if your filter is working properly.

Here is a page of interesting demo videos that show how to use the K-2006.

Scroll down the page and click on the video titled "How to Test (Free and Combined) Chlorine using FAS-DPD [updated 3/5/10]"

I can't get the test kit this week, money wise. But I will.

Should I be brushing the walls down? I told my husband I didn't think I should be, as that would just agitate the algae but he thinks I should.

I did the 5lbs of shock, and I've since put 6 more gallons of bleach in (last night and today) I don't really see much more of a change, except maybe a slight change in color.

[quantumchromodynamics]

How often are you having to backwash?

What does the backwash water look like?

What is the filter pressure before backwashing?

What is the filter pressure after backwashing?

Is the water still green?

Can you post a picture of the water?

Until you get your new test kit, you can dilute the water sample with 3 parts distilled water and 1 part pool water. Do the chlorine test with the diluted mix and multiply the result by 4. This will help you know what your levels are more accurately. It's important to maintain 15 ppm at all times. It would also be helpful if we could determine how fast the FC is dropping. If you can do a chlorine test at night and then again in the morning, that would help us determine the loss rate.

It's important not to dilute with tap water because tap water contains chlorine and will throw off the test. Distilled water does not contain chlorine and will give better results.

I know that this is a difficult process. It requires some patience as there seems to be a lot of algae to kill. It may take another 40 gallons (or more) to clear this up, it's hard to tell. Hopefully, it won't take that much, but it might.

Also, if you can go to the pool store to get a new set of results, that would also help. It would be especially helpful to know if there is any combined chlorine.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Here is an idea to save you some money. You can just buy the individual reagents and do the test in a 10-ml or 25 ml sample tube.

http://www.amatoind.com/taylor-testing-reagents-c-30_35.html?page=2&sort=2a

Taylor DPD powder (R-0870) $4.80 (10 gram size)

Taylor DPD solution #3 (R-0003) $4.75 (2 ounce size)

http://www.amatoind.com/taylor-testing-reagents-c-30_35.html?page=3&sort=2a

Taylor FAS-DPD titrating reagent (R-0871) $7.36 (2 ounce size)

4.80 + 4.75 + 7.36 = $ 16.91

Watch the demo video to see how to do the test.

[quantumchromodynamics]

2) Use a skimmer net (the big ones) and remove all the organic debris from the pool. Including and most importantly the bottom of the pool where the silt and debris accumulate. This might take a few attempts to do especially when you can't see the bottom.

Using a deep net can be helpful. However, you have to be careful not to cut or scratch the liner with the net or by pushing around sharp debris such as rocks or sticks. And, the poster states that they have already done extensive work vacuuming and scooping stuff off the bottom.

3) Add twice the amount of chlorine shock that you would normally add to start the pool.

Not really helpful advice, at all. They need to know how much and what kind.

6) Take a water sample in and buy the 1000kg of algecide that they are going to want to sell you =)

Do not buy any algaecide. You definitely do not want it, or need it. 1,000 Kg is 2205 pounds, so that is obviously a ridiculous suggestion.

[bamamelena]

I've been backwashing every day. I meant to get a new set of numbers today, but had an emergency with my dog and forgot.

I added 3 more gallons of bleach this week, and put in some PH last night. The water is still a light green, there's been no change really since last week.

I need to take a picture, I'll try to think to do that when I get home.

Quantum...I asked this before and can't remember if you answered what you said....should I be brushing the walls??

[quantumchromodynamics]

I've been backwashing every day.

What does the backwash water look like?

What is the filter pressure before backwashing?

What is the filter pressure after backwashing?

If the water does not begin to clear, then the filter might need to be serviced. There should be a significant pressure difference from before and after backwashing.

As the filter gets dirty, the pressure should rise. During backwash, the sight-glass should look dirty. After backwashing, the pressure should be at least a few psi lower.

It might also be helpful to use a liquid floc to drop all of the suspended material to the floor and then vacuum to waste if that is something you could do. The filter should be able to get this, so let's let that work first to see it will work without needing to floc.

Another thing you could do is to add some DE to the sand filter to see if that would help. After backwashing, add about 3 pounds of DE into the skimmer and it will get sucked up by the pump and pushed into the filter.

Monitor the filter pressure to see what happens. When you add the DE to the skimmer, watch the return water coming back into the pool. If you see DE blowing back into the pool after a few seconds (perhaps up to a few minutes), that would indicate a problem with your filter.

I added 3 more gallons of bleach this week.

We really need to know your FC and determine a loss rate. You need to get the FAS-DPD test and measure what your overnight FC loss is. Without that test, we are just guessing and we probably won't make much progress. You need to maintain 10 to 15 ppm FC at all times. 3 gallons during the week is not going to do it. Unless you maintain at least 10 to 15 ppm at all times, you will be losing ground.

and put in some PH last night.

What did you add and why did you add it? Your previous pH was reading high.

The water is still a light green

Is the water a clear green? Clear green could be copper. Have the water tested for copper when you go in to get a new set of numbers.

I asked this before and can't remember if you answered what you said....should I be brushing the walls??

Yes, you can begin to brush the sides and bottom. Be careful not the cut or scratch the liner with the brush, or by pushing debris into the liner. Also note, if you begin brushing without sufficient chlorine, the problem will get much worse.

I need to take a picture, I'll try to think to do that when I get home.

That would be helpful.