Jump to content

No Free Chlorine


 Share

Recommended Posts

Thanks for your help Chem geek,

I added the 8 gallons of liquid chlorine last night around 10 pm. I tested water this morning around 9 am. (ran filter all night). So, the test was NOT done right after adding the liquid chlorine. Hope this helps! I will test water for amonia and post results tomorrow.

Should I be concerned with TOT ALK: 107 ADJ TOT. ALK: 69 ?? Pool company reccommends adding 16 lbs of Balance Pak 100. Won't do it unless PoolSpaForum.com says so! :D Please advise. Thanks for your reply

Should I add the balance pak 100? Please advise. Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Thanks for your help Chem geek,

I added the 8 gallons of liquid chlorine last night around 10 pm. I tested water this morning around 9 am. (ran filter all night). So, the test was NOT done right after adding the liquid chlorine. Hope this helps! I will test water for amonia and post results tomorrow.

Should I be concerned with TOT ALK: 107 ADJ TOT. ALK: 69 ?? Pool company reccommends adding 16 lbs of Balance Pak 100. Won't do it unless PoolSpaForum.com says so! :D Please advise. Thanks for your reply

Should I add the balance pak 100? Please advise. Thanks!

your TA is 107?

I like lower TA's to keep pH in check. I aim for a TA of 80. so I wouldn't waste your money raising TA anymore. where is you pH? if you want to raise your pH to say 7.4 use borax..its better for your pool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't add the Balance Pak 100 since your TA is OK -- if anything it's on the high side.

You could slightly raise the pH a little by adding some 20 Mule Team Borax, though at this point it's not critical assuming you get through this in the next day or so. If you aerate the water, the pH might rise some. You can use The Pool Calculator to estimate what it would take to raise the pH from 7.0 to, say, 7.3 or so and I wouldn't go above 7.5 at this point since you may need to shock the pool with chlorine later after the chlorine starts to hold some.

You can keep adding chlorine or you can wait until you measure the ammonia level which might have you decide to do a partial drain/refill instead. Up to you. It would be helpful to know your actual Combined Chlorine (CC) level using your own good Taylor K-2006 test kit. Honestly, I don't understand why people are so resistant about investing in a good test kit since it makes a WORLD of difference in managing one's own pool effectively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ditto to all chem geek has said. A good test kit will more than pay itself back the first season. Being able to do your own testing will make the whole process less frustrating--you'd be able to dump in liquid chlorine, and test an hour later to see if it's there, even late at night when the pool store is closed.

--paulr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ditto to all chem geek has said. A good test kit will more than pay itself back the first season. Being able to do your own testing will make the whole process less frustrating--you'd be able to dump in liquid chlorine, and test an hour later to see if it's there, even late at night when the pool store is closed.

--paulr

Thank you all for the help! I just picked up amonia test kit and tested the water for amonia...and there is no amonia present! some good news! Also, i tested the water myself with a simple test kit PH and Chlorine (phenol red and ortho-yellow) Using my wife's eyes the chlorine is 3.5 and the PH is 7.2....I purchased 12 gallons of liquid bleach today and want to know if it is ok to dump it all in the water tonite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice of her to loan you her eyes... :)

One nice thing about the OTO chlorine test is that if there's ANY chlorine in there, it will react. Of course it can't distinguish FC from CC, so you really need to order that top-end test kit!

According to the Pool Calculator 4 gallons of 6% bleach in 24k gallons will raise FC by 10. (Or is this the 12% stuff? Which obviously would be worth twice as much.) So that will guide you in figuring amounts.

Normally, the "shock level" is figured at around 40% of your CYA (stabilizer). That is, you want enough bleach to raise FC that high, and then KEEP IT THERE until you are able to hold that level overnight. One problem you're having is that you put stuff in, it all disappears, and then the algae can start regrowing; so it's one step forward, one step back. Hard to make progress that way!

A second problem, of course, is your excessively high CYA; it makes the target FC level that much higher, and harder to maintain. So you need to pick a target level--I'd say at least FC 20, although normally we'd want it to be more like 40--and then do your best to hit that target and maintain it as steadily as possible.

The third problem is, your little OTO test kit is incapable of reliably measuring FC that high. So of course you need a top-notch test kit that has the "FAS-DPD" chlorine test. (NOT the "DPD" test, that's almost useless, but many places will try to palm it off on you.)

Oh, and before I forget--did you order the test kit yet?

--paulr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL!! Yes I just ordered the Taylor K-2006 test kit "FAS-DPD"!!!

The Bleach is 6%. So, I just put in 8 gals bleach ... and waited 1 hr then i tested water with strips ( yeah the strips & my eyes!) and i get:

Hardness: between 150 and 200

Tot Chlorine: 10+

Free Chlorine 10+ (finally!! i cant beleive these eyes!)

Alk: looks to be around 120

PH 7.5 or lower

I am gonna wait a bit then test.... add the last 4 gallons and test once more before bed

Then in the morning i will test myself and have tested (to compare) whilst i wait patiently for the Taylor K-2006 test kit!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congratulations. Apparently you were close to clearing out your pool of whatever was consuming chlorine, but didn't know it. You are fortunate. Sometimes it takes far more chlorine than you needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I added the last 4 gallons of Bleach last night around midnight then tested water around 1:30 am with test strips and the OTO test kit (phenoylred & yellow)

OTO test results @ 1:30am: Chlorine over 5+ and PH between 7.4 -7.5

Test strip test results @ 1:30am:

PH: between 7.2 - 7.5

Alk: 120

Free Chlor: 10+

Tot Chlor: 10+

Hardness: 120

I tested water this morning @ 9AM with test strips and OTO here are my results

OTO test results @ 9 am: Chlorine 3.5 PH: between 7.2 - 7.4

strip test results @ 9am:

ph: between 7 - 7.2

alk: 120

free chlorine: 3

tot chlorine: 3

I took a water sample over to my pool store and they tested it @ 9:45am and here are there results using BioGuards BioLab computerized water analysis:

Current Ideal

Temperature: 75

Saturation index: -0.6 ideal is -.3- +.3

TDS: 1400 ideal is <2500

CYA: 120 ideal is 30-200

tot Chlorine: 0.4 ideal is 1.5 - 3

free chlor: 0.4 ideal is 1.5 - 3

PH: 6.9 ideal is 7.4 - 7.6

tot alkal: 113

adj tot alkal: 77 ideal is 125 - 150

tot hardness: 325 ideal is 200 - 275

Notice what they are saying ideal ranges should be for adj tot alk 125 - 150

as Pool store water test printout is calling for the following:

telling me to add 18.5 lbs of Balance Pak 100 saying tot alk is low.

add 1 lb of balance pak 200 saying ph is too low. (the manager actually gave me a bottle of balance pak 200 at no charge when I questioned Borax! Manager agreed with EVERYTHING POOL and Spa Forum says! and told me not to worry about the tot alkalinity now but to just add the balance pak 200 after i questioned adj. tot alk and ph)

What do you suggest now? Thanks for everyones help! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Based on pool store readings this morning of:

Temperature: 75

Saturation index: -0.6 ideal is -.3- +.3

TDS: 1400 ideal is <2500

CYA: 120 ideal is 30-200

tot Chlorine: 0.4 ideal is 1.5 - 3

free chlor: 0.4 ideal is 1.5 - 3

PH: 6.9 ideal is 7.4 - 7.6

tot alkal: 113

adj tot alkal: 77 ideal is 125 - 150

tot hardness: 325 ideal is 200 - 275

Using the pool calculator I determined that I need the following:

1) add 174 ounces of 20 Mule Team Borax to raise my PH from 6.9 to 7.4

2) add 473 ounces of Bleach (6%) to raise chlorine from .5 to 10

Unless advised otherwise... I will add this to my pool early tonight. Thanks again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that's fine. Don't worry about the TA since you'll let that get lower over time if the pH rises and you add acid to lower the pH. The CYA level is high. PLEASE get yourself your own good test kit (the Taylor K-2006 or the TF-100) since pool store readings can be very wrong, especially for the CYA level. If the CYA is truly 120 ppm, then keep a minimum FC of at least 9 ppm at all times to prevent algae growth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ordered the Taylor K-2006 test kit "FAS-DPD" couple days ago and it is on its way :)

Last night @ 9PM I added 2 (76 ounce) boxes of 20 mule team Borax waited an hour then added 473 ounces of clorox bleach (6%)

I waited 15 minutes then tested water with strips and OTO. Results were: OTO Test: PH: 7.3-7.5 and Chlor: over 5.0+

strip test results:

PH: 7.3-7.4

Alk: 120-180

free C: 10+

Tot C: 10+

hardness: 200-300

I waited another 3 hours and tested water again last night around midnight with strips and OTO. Results were: OTO Test: PH: 7.3-7.4 Chl: over 5+

test strips @ midnight results:

PH: 7.5

alk 120-180

free C: 10

tot C: 10

hardness: 200-400

This morning, today @ 9AM I tested with strips and OTO and results were: OTO test was PH: 7.3-7.4 Chlor: 1.5

strip test results:

PH: 7.3-7.4

Alk: 120

Free C: 1.5

Tot Chl: 1.5

Hardness: 120

I took a water sample to the pool store and the results were:

Temperature: 75

Saturation Idx: -0.3

TDS: 1400

CYA: 151 (i think CYA is wrong...i think it is lower)

Tot Chl: 0.5

free Chl: 0.5

PH: 7.3

Tot Alk: 122

Adj Tot Alk: 77 pool store is saying this is low again and to add 12 lbs Balance Pak 100. I will not unless PoolSpa Forum says so! HA!

tot hardness: 322

It looks like the free chlorine is continuing to rise slowly (yay!) so I am thinking of doubling up on the bleach tonight...That is add about 950 liquid ounces of the bleach tonight and keep an eye on it. How does that sound?

Thanks for all of your help! :)

`

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ordered the Taylor K-2006 test kit "FAS-DPD" couple days ago and it is on its way :)

Last night @ 9PM I added 2 (76 ounce) boxes of 20 mule team Borax waited an hour then added 473 ounces of clorox bleach (6%)

I waited 15 minutes then tested water with strips and OTO. Results were: OTO Test: PH: 7.3-7.5 and Chlor: over 5.0+

strip test results:

PH: 7.3-7.4

Alk: 120-180

free C: 10+

Tot C: 10+

hardness: 200-300

I waited another 3 hours and tested water again last night around midnight with strips and OTO. Results were: OTO Test: PH: 7.3-7.4 Chl: over 5+

test strips @ midnight results:

PH: 7.5

alk 120-180

free C: 10

tot C: 10

hardness: 200-400

This morning, today @ 9AM I tested with strips and OTO and results were: OTO test was PH: 7.3-7.4 Chlor: 1.5

strip test results:

PH: 7.3-7.4

Alk: 120

Free C: 1.5

Tot Chl: 1.5

Hardness: 120

I took a water sample to the pool store and the results were:

Temperature: 75

Saturation Idx: -0.3

TDS: 1400

CYA: 151 (i think CYA is wrong...i think it is lower)

Tot Chl: 0.5

free Chl: 0.5

PH: 7.3

Tot Alk: 122

Adj Tot Alk: 77 pool store is saying this is low again and to add 12 lbs Balance Pak 100. I will not unless PoolSpa Forum says so! HA!

tot hardness: 322

It looks like the free chlorine is continuing to rise slowly (yay!) so I am thinking of doubling up on the bleach tonight...That is add about 950 liquid ounces of the bleach tonight and keep an eye on it. How does that sound?

Thanks for all of your help! :)

`

I would wait for the Taylor test kit and test. the water samples should be tested right away from what I've heard. fresh water sample is a must. so the pool store is testing water that is not straight out of the pool so results may not be correct.

and they will love to sell you something you do not need. test the water yourself. you can buy just about everything you need to balance your pool from the foodstore and hardware store.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick reply Gavin!

The water tested at pool store was approx. 15 minutes fresh meaning I took the water sample and went straight to the pool store.

Are you saying I should wait to add the bleach? as I want to keep the chlorine levels high and the test kit probably wont arrive till Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say keep going on the bleach, because slacking off almost certainly means you will lose ground. The real problem is we don't have a CYA result we can trust, and that's the main factor in figuring out a target FC level. So, we're kind of guessing how much bleach to use at this point. I think as long as the strips show 10+ you are probably making some progress.

--paulr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say keep going on the bleach, because slacking off almost certainly means you will lose ground. The real problem is we don't have a CYA result we can trust, and that's the main factor in figuring out a target FC level. So, we're kind of guessing how much bleach to use at this point. I think as long as the strips show 10+ you are probably making some progress.

--paulr

I'm not happy with any CYA tester out there. I think the TF Test Kit is probably going to be the most accurate of them all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks!! I put in 15 gallons of bleach Friday night and free chlorine tested at 10 and free at 9 Saturday. Still above 5 now free and total chlorine! Finally holding!

cool. once you got enough FC in there now you just let the FC drop to the right FC/CYA ration and keep it there. now you will have no more problems. B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Gavin... I just received my Taylor K-2006 FAS-DPD Test kit and it really is simple to use. My free chlorine is 4.6 total chlorine is 5.2. Ph is 7.5. The cya is over 100 as the black dot dissappeared long before water level got to 100.

Free chlorine is holding nice! Had not added bleach since the 15 gallons last Friday (5 days ago). It will be exciting (starting tomorrow!) to compare my results with pool store results to see how close we are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Gavin... I just received my Taylor K-2006 FAS-DPD Test kit and it really is simple to use. My free chlorine is 4.6 total chlorine is 5.2. Ph is 7.5. The cya is over 100 as the black dot dissappeared long before water level got to 100.

Free chlorine is holding nice! Had not added bleach since the 15 gallons last Friday (5 days ago). It will be exciting (starting tomorrow!) to compare my results with pool store results to see how close we are.

I'm a bit late to this conversation...

Your report that the chlorine is holding overnight is good news but since the measured CYA is > 100 PPM you must endeavor to maintain a much higher Free Chlorine (FC) level on a daily basis. The FC/CYA ratio that Gavin refers to can be found in the Best Guess CYA chart. You should target a FC concentration that is comfortably above the minimum (5% of CYA for a SWG pool, 8% of CYA for a non-salt pool). If the black dot disappeared "long before the water level got to 100" there is too much CYA in the water. You can determine the level of CYA by diluting the sample water with tap water (50:50) and doubling the result. If the CYA is much more than 100 PPM I would drain off some of the pool water to reduce it to a maxium of 80 PPM (Salt Water Chlorine Generator SWG) or 50 PPM (no SWG).

Finally, TC 5.2 minus FC 4.6 = Combined Chlorine .6 PPM; this is a bit high and shows the need for elevated levels of chorine for a while until it gets down to around .2 PPM. If the CYA is very high (and seems to be) you may be better off draining some water and refilling before you add more chlorine.

Sorry to be the skunk at the dinner party... Throw me out if you find my dour message discomforting!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Gavin... I just received my Taylor K-2006 FAS-DPD Test kit and it really is simple to use. My free chlorine is 4.6 total chlorine is 5.2. Ph is 7.5. The cya is over 100 as the black dot dissappeared long before water level got to 100.

Free chlorine is holding nice! Had not added bleach since the 15 gallons last Friday (5 days ago). It will be exciting (starting tomorrow!) to compare my results with pool store results to see how close we are.

I'm a bit late to this conversation...

Your report that the chlorine is holding overnight is good news but since the measured CYA is > 100 PPM you must endeavor to maintain a much higher Free Chlorine (FC) level on a daily basis. The FC/CYA ratio that Gavin refers to can be found in the Best Guess CYA chart. You should target a FC concentration that is comfortably above the minimum (5% of CYA for a SWG pool, 8% of CYA for a non-salt pool). If the black dot disappeared "long before the water level got to 100" there is too much CYA in the water. You can determine the level of CYA by diluting the sample water with tap water (50:50) and doubling the result. If the CYA is much more than 100 PPM I would drain off some of the pool water to reduce it to a maxium of 80 PPM (Salt Water Chlorine Generator SWG) or 50 PPM (no SWG).

Finally, TC 5.2 minus FC 4.6 = Combined Chlorine .6 PPM; this is a bit high and shows the need for elevated levels of chorine for a while until it gets down to around .2 PPM. If the CYA is very high (and seems to be) you may be better off draining some water and refilling before you add more chlorine.

Sorry to be the skunk at the dinner party... Throw me out if you find my dour message discomforting!

Thanks Polyvue, LOL! No skunks in this forum..HA!

I forgot to mention that for the past 6 seasons I always add BioGuard Algae All-60 (10-12 ounces per week) with great results (no algae). I saved my pool test water results from the last 2-3 seasons and I have noticed that my CYA range has always been anywhere from 57 to 151 (usually over 100) and I have never had algae. Is this because I am using BioGuard Algae All-60? Also, I have been using Nature2 cartridge and keeping my TC and Free chlorine well below 5 and not had algae problems. I want to use Nature2 this season since it has been great!

Last night I added water to pool to top off (couple inches)

I had my water tested from pool store this morning (did not have time to test water myself)and the results are:

Temp: 76

sat index: -0.4

TDS 1800

CYA 131 (pool tech told me my CYA is fine and ideal CYA is 30-200)

Tot Chlorine: 2.8

Free Chlorine: 2.8

Ph: 7

tot alk: 188

Adj. Tot Alk: 149

Tot Hardness: 236

salt: N/A

What do you suggest at this point? Can I begin to use my Nature2 now?

I am unable to drain pool water and refill. I will test water myself tonight.

Thanks for everyones help and suggestions :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Polyvue, LOL! No skunks in this forum..HA!

I forgot to mention that for the past 6 seasons I always add BioGuard Algae All-60 (10-12 ounces per week) with great results (no algae). I saved my pool test water results from the last 2-3 seasons and I have noticed that my CYA range has always been anywhere from 57 to 151 (usually over 100) and I have never had algae. Is this because I am using BioGuard Algae All-60? Also, I have been using Nature2 cartridge and keeping my TC and Free chlorine well below 5 and not had algae problems. I want to use Nature2 this season since it has been great!

Last night I added water to pool to top off (couple inches)

I had my water tested from pool store this morning (did not have time to test water myself)and the results are:

Temp: 76

sat index: -0.4

TDS 1800

CYA 131 (pool tech told me my CYA is fine and ideal CYA is 30-200)

Tot Chlorine: 2.8

Free Chlorine: 2.8

Ph: 7

tot alk: 188

Adj. Tot Alk: 149

Tot Hardness: 236

salt: N/A

What do you suggest at this point? Can I begin to use my Nature2 now?

I am unable to drain pool water and refill. I will test water myself tonight.

Thanks for everyones help and suggestions smile.gif

It's not unheard of to have a pool that is well-behaved for several years or most of a season and then becomes quickly unmanageable. This usually happens because starting off the level of cyanuric acid (CYA) is quite low, but over time chlorine compounds have been added to the pool and the CYA builds up to the point where it's embargoing (combining with) almost all of the chlorine. A little CYA (30-100 ppm) is a good thing, too much means you've disabled your main sanitizer and algea fighter.

My understanding is that the minerals you've been adding via the Nature 2 have some impact on sanitation - yet it's the chlorine that's doing all of the heavy lifting. I recommend reading the following articles regarding the Nature 2 system. Bottom line, I think, is that in the concentrations required for good sanitation the minerals cause problems, and in low amounts, don't quickly enough kill pathogens. There is also the issue of increased cost in adding unnecessary chemicals (or minerals) to the pool.

Stains & Metal Matters: Iron, Copper, Silver & More

Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools

Even if you reconnect the cartridge there likely won't be enough sanitizer/oxidizer in the pool to effectively kill the hardier algae species and/or other organics. If draining part of the pool water is impossible I would look into hiring a company that performs reverse osmosis filtering --- available at a reasonable price (from what I've heard) if you live in Arizona or Southern California.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Polyvue!

Since I have a chlorine feeder I have been using the 3" chlorinating tablets (99% Trichloro). Is it ok to continue using the chlorinating tabs or should I use something else?

I would encourage you to chlorinate using liquid chlorine or 6% bleach instead of the TriChlor tabs because for every 10 PPM chlorine that is added to the water the tabs are also increasing CYA by roughly 6 PPM.

The higher the level of CYA, the more chlorine you need to fight algae and provide adequate sanitation. So, more Trichlor is added to increase chlorine but that in turn elevates CYA and you're back to where you started: insufficient chlorine.

Pool chlorine (or bleach) does not increase CYA -- it just adds chlorine, which is what you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share




×
×
  • Create New...