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Spa Debris Problem


Gary

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This is a confusing problem and it has taken me months to figure it out so I am really hoping someone can help us here as Summer is approaching.

Okay - I have a Spa and pool. Over the past few months I have had consistent debris in the spa and the pool (when the filter runs water from the spa feeds the pool). Whenver I vacuum the spa and then the pool, debris comes back into the spa within minutes after cleaning and eventually debris comes back into the pool (I presume from the spa feed). We do have a flat top cage surrounded by a lot of trees, so I have always thought maybe the pollen and other debris from the trees was the problem.

Today, I emptied all the water out the spa, and refilled it. Back came the debris!

Then, I emptied the spa again, opened that screwed on cover on the bottom of the pool and wet vaccumed the two holes on the bottom of the spa, and then refilled the spa with water (I have the filter running all the time). Well then the water in the spa was spotless, beautiful and clean!!

Okay, problem solved I thought!

Then I decided to vacuum the remaining debris in the pool....Well, as I was vacuuming this debris in the pool, I noticed the spa getting dirtier and dirtier. It did not look like it was coming from bouys. It has to be those 2 holes on the bottom, I presume!!

I dont know how this all fits together, but if anyone can shed some light here and point me in the right direction that would be so much appreciated.

My direct email is gmsafrica_2000@yahoo.com if you any questions.

Thanks so much

Gary

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This is a confusing problem and it has taken me months to figure it out so I am really hoping someone can help us here as Summer is approaching.

Okay - I have a Spa and pool. Over the past few months I have had consistent debris in the spa and the pool (when the filter runs water from the spa feeds the pool). Whenver I vacuum the spa and then the pool, debris comes back into the spa within minutes after cleaning and eventually debris comes back into the pool (I presume from the spa feed). We do have a flat top cage surrounded by a lot of trees, so I have always thought maybe the pollen and other debris from the trees was the problem.

Today, I emptied all the water out the spa, and refilled it. Back came the debris!

Then, I emptied the spa again, opened that screwed on cover on the bottom of the pool and wet vaccumed the two holes on the bottom of the spa, and then refilled the spa with water (I have the filter running all the time). Well then the water in the spa was spotless, beautiful and clean!!

Okay, problem solved I thought!

Then I decided to vacuum the remaining debris in the pool....Well, as I was vacuuming this debris in the pool, I noticed the spa getting dirtier and dirtier. It did not look like it was coming from bouys. It has to be those 2 holes on the bottom, I presume!!

I dont know how this all fits together, but if anyone can shed some light here and point me in the right direction that would be so much appreciated.

My direct email is gmsafrica_2000@yahoo.com if you any questions.

Thanks so much

Gary

A little more info needed.

What type of filter (cartridge, DE, sand) does your pool use? Have you checked the PSI (pressure) at the filter? When was the filter last inspected and backwashed (sand/DE) or cleaned (cartridge)? Assume that you're vacuuming via suction hose? Has the filter basket at the pump been emptied? Does it collect the debris as you vacuum?

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It is a cartridge filter (so I presume I dont need to do backwashing). I cleaned the cartridge the other day, but still have the problem. I have not had it inspected.

I clean the pump filter basket all the time - It does pick up quite alot of debris. Yes, I use a suction hose and it is picking up the debris.If it is all getting through to the pump, I have no idea.

Checking Pressure at the filter. I will check that?

Missing air relief screen in filter - Is this applicable to cartrige filters?

Based on my reading up and research online over the past few days it seems the most common cause of debris returning to the pool after cleaning has to do with a faulty cartridge.

I have a Hayward Star clear Plus

Thanks, Gary

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WHOA! cartridges are expensive! Depending on the type (manufacture) will deteremine where your air relief is on your system, but I have not seen a DE or Cartridge filter that did not have an air relief screen (with exception to val-pak manifolds, there's are drilled into the manifold). That doesn't mean yours does, but I bet it should. Post back with the Manufacture, model and size and I'll tell you what too look for. It is inside of the filter attached to the manifold the cartridges "plug" into. Most have a long stem coming to the top of the cartridge, the screen should be on the end of that. up-side down models will have it on the manifold. Not to confuse you... When you take the top of your filter off you should see a hole somewhere that needs a filter on it. You can use any peiec of cloth and a zip tie to get you buy. It's possible your stem is missing too in which case "the hole" will be down at the bottom on your manifold.

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yes! it's called an auto air relief tube! It goes down to the bottom, and plugs in, comes up to the top. Hayward uses a small blue filter with a screen inside that will slide down on the end of this tube!!! Critically import for your dilema. If you have a cleaner in your pool, I'd be willing to bet your wall fitting screen is plugged with this same debris. If you don't have (a very import wall screen) then your cleaner is likely got this junk in it and isn't working very well.

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The air relief tube looks fine to me. There are 2 tubes, placed inside of the cartridge.

Im confused re. "wall fitting screen" - what is this?

I have a pool guy coming tomorrow afternoon to try and diagnose the problem so we will see what happens.

he does not think that it is the cartridge or filter, but to do with the fineness of the debris and that it could be getting through

the filter, and was talking about using clarifier to try and bring the debris together. Makes no sense to me, as if that was the case everyone would be sitting with the debris in their pool (i.e. filters not catching debris that is very fine).

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Take the filter apart (again) and see if you have # 5, Guide cone.

look on Page 2

owners guide

This is a single pass filter, and if you're missing the cone, or the cone is dislodged, the dirty water will just by-pass the filter, and return to the pool. The amount of debris you're getting suggests more of a by pass than the bleed tube will allow.

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relief tube! Great! But there should be a screen on the end of that relief tube. I pay $5.05 wholesale for 1. maybe $7.00 at leslies. Two tubes? My schmatic only showed one. Either way there should be no open holes or tubes from your manifold in the bottom of your filter to your pool. There is also the possibility you have a cracked manifold however my schmatic didn't show a good picture as to what your manifold looks like. Using a SCP parts book for pictures.

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looked at the drawing provided by pool clown. part 11 is a rod either brass or stainless. the cone is important but likely in place as it would not make sense to throw it out. however they don't show the air relief filter that belongs on the end of the air relief tube. TRUST ME. You need one!!! Water can go through your filter, be filtered down to your manifold and out to your pool. Or, it could go through your air relief tube. If there is no air, it is sucking water in just like your filter is trying to suck water through to filter. water like electricity likes the path of least resistance. With out the filter on the tube you can/will get debris in your pool. clarifiers are for debris to fine for the filter to catch in a cartridge... smaller than 10 microns in de smaller than 3 microns (I think) Anyway what I mean is smaller than the eye can see, but large enough in quantity to make a clear pool appear cloudy. a clarifier will not resolve your problem, but I'll buy your air relief filter if I'm wrong!

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Okay I had the pool guy there on Thursday. He said the problem was the amount of pollen that I have accumulated in the pool and clogs the system. He said quite a few pools he services has this problem being surrounded by trees and during pollen season in Florida, one can get quite alot of pollen in your pool. It all seemed a bit confusing to me. He checked the filter & pump and said everything looked fine. Anyway, what he did was vacuum all the pollen from the pool & spa into a vaccum bag. The next day when I got home, after the filter had run, there was no more pollen but alot of (what looks like grey powder/sand) on the bottom of the pool. He said tell me that this may well happen? Anyway, I vacuummed this up with my manual suction vacuum and then ran the filter for about an hour or so and there seemed to be very little dirt/debris coming back into the pool. There was a tiny bit but that may well be from dirt that did not get sucked up by the vacuum when I vacuumed. I guess the true test will come when I come home and the filter has run for 4 hours? Im still a little confused why the pollen shoudl at all be coming back into the pool, but for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If nothing comes back into the pool over the next few days, then he may well have been right.

Thanks, Gary

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Gary,

There should be no visible debris coming out of the jets in the pool or spa - including pollen. If there is, it is getting past the filter somehow, so something isn't right. It shows in the spa first because that's a smaller body of water so it accumulates faster. The Cartridge filter you have should be removing all debris down to around 5-10 microns - not visible to the human eye. If the cartridges are clean & not damaged or crushed, and the lower manifold is not damaged or crushed, it only leaves a few options.

1. The debris is falling out of the air, rather than coming thru the returns. You're confident that it's coming thru the returns, so I'll let this one drop.

2. As mentioned before, there is an air relief tube inside the filter that should have a small screen attached. The screen will allow larger debris to pass than the cartridges will, but if the screen is missing, it lets even larger debris pass as well.

3. If the cartridges are old, they may be worn at the point that they seat around the holes on the bottom or top of the cartridge. They should have a very snug fit. Loose fit will allow debris to bypass.

4. The "top closure plate" which seals the cartridges on the top side may be installed upside down. Depending on which one you have it can be a very, very easy mistake to make. Since you and your pool guy know your filter well, this is unlikely, but a possibility.

Good luck

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My wife was at home when he checked the pool. I dont think he did a thorough check of the filter but was ensuring all the parts were there and everything was functioning. I clean the pool myself, this guy was just doing us a favor (he services some friends of ours' pool).

Im not really sure how much he knows but never charged us anything.I do have some debris (not pollen but possibly sand particles) coming back into the pool each time I vacuum (not at that given moment as in the past) the next day or so after the filter has been running for a few hours.

How long do cartridges normally last - I will take it to the pool shop and see if they can find any issues with it

Thanks, Gary

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