Timer For 50 Amp Spa?

[arnspa]

In Sept 2008 we got a MasterSpa H2X Crosstrainer2. [1300 gals] This doubled our electric usage and tripled our bill. Then we got a 5 kW solar electric system (30 panels) July 2009. Now we expect to at least break even, that is owe nothing on our electric bill at the end of the yearly billing cycle. But better, since January 1, 2010, we can actually SELL any surplus electric back to the utility (PG&E, California).

Along with the solar system, we chose 'Time of Use' billing which means the summer rate is 8 cents per kWh at night, but 29 cents per kWh from 1-7pm (peak demand for AC). SO, we want to heat our spa at night, and never from 1-7pm.

This is a 240 watt, 50 amp system. How can we control this? Where can we get the parts? I gather it needs a 'connector' for a 50 amp system, controlled by a 110 timer. Anyone done this? Where can we get it?

Thanks!

[pauldee]

I'm not familiar with your MasterSpa, but my Coleman, in economy mode, only heats when it filters. And I can start the filtering process simply by turning off the tub at the breaker, then turning it on when I want the filter/heating to occur. I started the tub at 11:00 one night, and now it filters/heats from 11:00PM to 2:00AM every night. When the clocks changed this weekend, it was starting the cycle at midnight, so I just went out at 11:00 last night, and turned the breaker off, then on again.

[JerimiahR]

You may be able to accomplish this through an economy mode setting on your spa. I'd refer you to your owner's manual on that one. However, depending on where you're at in California, keep in mind that disabling the hot tub's ability to heat for periods of time can be bad in cold climates during the winter.

If you're in a perpetually warm area, you won't have to worry about this.

[michelle07]

We have been involved with repairs, equipment replacement, and the design and execution of customized systems.

[arnspa]

Thanks, JR. This is what the MasterSpa people recommended when I asked them. (They had no suggestions for timer system)

But this would require me to set the program twice a day, just what I want to try to avoid. (Unless there's something to the Econ mode I don't know about)

Hereabouts we don't need to worry much about the temp drop. It's mild and cover and insulation works so well that it drops only about 2 degrees with pwer off 12-24 hrs. (It got down to 28 degrees one night this winter)

[arnspa]

Thanks pauldee. Ours is a 1300 gal unit, and I think it's filtering much more than just a couple hours daily (nightly). I guess I also thought that a 'techie' fix here might be easy. (and not interrupt the Jon Stewart show!)

[arnspa]

That's great, michelle.

[arnspa]

IS THERE NO ONE HERE who has experience with putting their tub/spa on a timer? Am I breaking new ground for all?

[JoefromVa]

I have had the same issue with the master spa doubling my bill. I had thought about the time, but wasnt sure how to do it. Let me know what you figure out.

[arnspa]

I have had the same issue with the master spa doubling my bill. I had thought about the time, but wasnt sure how to do it. Let me know what you figure out.

Joe, A timer only makes sense if you're on a 'Time of Use' billing. As I described, at 'Peak Time', summer cost for us at 1-7 pm is 2 1/2 what it is at night (29 cents per kWh vs 8 cents per kWh). Obviously, we want to be off-grid at the high cost hours.

My electrician is coming Thursday to install a 'connector', that is a switch that can control 50 amps, and a timer. Each of these will be in a separate box. A 110 volt line will control the timer, which will signal the 220 volt, 50 amp, connector to control the spa.

He says $800. Very expensive, I say. Had I been able to readily find a configuration and source on line I would do it myself. Not finding that on line, I asked here for help and to my electrician. After a week, my electrician has responded. And here I got zero useful feedback (excuse me, michelle).

My guess is that the electrician will pick up $150 in material at Home Depot, and insall it for $800 total.

I guess I will call that a bargain, and think of all the gas money I saved.

[stryker709]

I have had the same issue with the master spa doubling my bill. I had thought about the time, but wasnt sure how to do it. Let me know what you figure out.

Joe, A timer only makes sense if you're on a 'Time of Use' billing. As I described, at 'Peak Time', summer cost for us at 1-7 pm is 2 1/2 what it is at night (29 cents per kWh vs 8 cents per kWh). Obviously, we want to be off-grid at the high cost hours.

My electrician is coming Thursday to install a 'connector', that is a switch that can control 50 amps, and a timer. Each of these will be in a separate box. A 110 volt line will control the timer, which will signal the 220 volt, 50 amp, connector to control the spa.

He says $800. Very expensive, I say. Had I been able to readily find a configuration and source on line I would do it myself. Not finding that on line, I asked here for help and to my electrician. After a week, my electrician has responded. And here I got zero useful feedback (excuse me, michelle).

My guess is that the electrician will pick up $150 in material at Home Depot, and insall it for $800 total.

I guess I will call that a bargain, and think of all the gas money I saved.

I would have probably located a 240v timer, mounted it inside the tub enclosure and wired the heater in series with one of the timers contacts. 240v only because the Jacuzzi tubs don't incorporate a neutral. Unless you are an electrician yourself however, I would recommend going with someone with experience in these things.

[arnspa]

I would have probably located a 240v timer, mounted it inside the tub enclosure and wired the heater in series with one of the timers contacts. 240v only because the Jacuzzi tubs don't incorporate a neutral. Unless you are an electrician yourself however, I would recommend going with someone with experience in these things.

I'm not sure I understand your suggestion, but finding a safe timer for a 50 amp 240 service is part of my problem. Switching 50 amps on and off securely is quite different than what a wall switch does. My electrician agrees that what's needed is a 50 amp 240 'connector' controlled by a 100 timer. He's installing that soon. I'll try to attach a photo.

[arnspa]

Here it is! I attach a link to 3 photos at snapfish with captions to explain. I believe this timer set up will be a money saver for us, allowing us to switch the spa off at 'peak hours' of the Time of Use billing schedule we're on with PG&E. (I do not recommend this installation for DIY novices. I was happy to have an electrician do it)

http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/Al..._NAME=snapfish/

Note: Click on the photos individually to see the explanatory captions. The 'View Larger' feature is nice too. The captions don't show in the slideshow mode.

[Dr. Spa]

Without sighing up, providing a name and email address, you can't see the pictures.

[arnspa]

Without sighing up, providing a name and email address, you can't see the pictures.

OOPS! SORRY, I did not know that was how snapfish worked! Thanks for clueing me in! HOW does one post the photos direct? (as I've seen you do)

I guess snapfish just assumes you'll be wanting photos of my new timer on a coffee mug!

[north_of_boston]

Many spas already HAVE timers. My last one had one (it was a Sequoia Spa) - and it was a 240v 50a system. I do not know what the voltage rating was on the timer.

Now - how it worked. You aligned it with your watch - synchonized the time and it had little mini - dip switches in 15 minute intervals.

What we did was had it go off for four hours, in four different intervals of the day.

I was rather surprised that some of the newer models (including my Arctic) did not have clock-timers on them... since we are on electric mains, in a cold climate, temperature level is far more critical than when the pump turns on and off, so we could accept what we have.

[arnspa]

For easier photo download I've gone to Photobucket (Free if you can get by all the Please Buy options). Here's a photo of the new boxes on a block wall/fence near the spa. We have a 240 volt 50 amp service that comes through the block wall into the square box at right. It houses a 50 amp Schneider contactor which is controlled by an Intermatic 110 volt timer in the box at left. The timer has two 'pegs' that allow you to time when the unit will go on and off. (You can get more pegs if you want it to cycle more than once in 24 hrs). The arm below the yellow dial is a manual off/on switch. The small box below the square box houses a 120 outlet.

Note that the whole idea of this set up is that 50 amps is a LOT of current, it's not like a 15 amp switch in your house (which often carries only 3 amps). You need a Superswitch to control 50 amps. But to turn that Superswitch on/off you only need a 120 timer.

Again, we are using this timer set up because with our solar electric system on Time of Use billing, electric power costs 8 cents at night, and 29 cents at summer Peak time, 1-7pm. In our situation we will recoup the costs of this timer in no time.

Also, if you're not an electrician, you should probably let an electrician do this for you. Because this lead is near 80 feet from our main service panel, I asked my electrician to install a ground rod on the opposite side of the wall shown in this picture. In any case, Please Note that the white/neutral wire from your 240 system must not be connected to ground/earth/green wire at any place but the main service panel.

(That's a gate at the left, and yes, I have already removed the red plastic inserts from our previous box here.)

<img src="http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac57/arnpics/spa%20timer/IMG_1132.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

[Soaker44]

For clarification, the thing you call a "conductor" is actually called a "contactor", which is the industry name for a high current relay.

[arnspa]

For clarification, the thing you call a "conductor" is actually called a "contactor", which is the industry name for a high current relay.

Thanks, Soaker, you are exactly right. I've edited my post with photo above.

[shark193]

They do not make a 50 amp / 240 vlt timer for spas.  I don't know why not, as 50 amp is the standard.   Most people, including many in this post, use a smaller rated timer that then switches a 50 amp relay on/off - which works, but can be cumbersome and expensive.

I also have "Peak" time pricing for my electricity, and wanted a timer.   I utilized an Intermatic WH40  water heater Timer (same as in the picture above), rated at 40 amps/240 vlts on my previous LA Spa without any issues.  They run about $40 at Home Depot and Amazon.   It's easy to wire in between your spa disconnect and the spa itself.   I set the timer to go on 1-hour before peak time, and when peak time ended each day for an hour each time (twice a day) and It saved me about $20/month keeping hot enough to use anytime.

 

Keep in mind that the rating is for peak use with safety margins built in; and most heating cycles are done at low pump speeds - with way less than peak draw.  I have a new spa on order (new house) and plan to use the same system - it's simple and functional.   ....I hope this helps.

[Cusser]

Hmmm  - my electric hot water heater has a 240 VAC timer and switch; I bought it 25 years ago from hardware store like Home Depot and installed that switch for the water heater myself.  Wouldn't such work for you???