New Guy Very Confused

[jeffinwhitby]

I'm currently debating between 3 manufacturers

Arctic Sundance and Coast

Each time I talk to a sales guy they convince me why their tub is better

Which I guess I should expect

I really just need some unbiased opinions

I am leaning toward Arctic

1. Coast is the cheapest, should I be worried? (but i would get 2 5HP motors with 50 jets, in others for same price I get 2 4HP and 33 jets)

2. I hear the Arctic Forever floor isn't a good idea - I'm looking to put it half on settled interlocking brick, and half crushed stone, otherwise I need to get a concrete pad installed and tear out brick

3. I hear if I don't use a concrete pad (even with Forever Floor) the shell warranty is void (acrylic mnfctr warranty X)

4. If anyone has sunk a tub into or partially into a deck - would love to know if they were happy with that or not, is tub access a problem.

5. Arctic has the Heatlock system which makes sense to me, but is the guy full of it, I like the idea that if the tub leaked getting to it without having the shell all foamed up. Coast guy says tubs don't leak at the shell more at the connections not covered with foam.

That's a start for now - see if I get some responses and may post some more questions.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help

[Tomab]

I guess I'm somewhat biased since I purchased an Arctic Tundra about a year ago. I have absolutely no regrets.

I personally like the idea of Forever Floor. Not sure why some say it isn't a good idea. It's rigid and provides a solid base, won't rot, seals out moisture and rodents.

If your literally going to put one side on brick and the other half on crushed stone I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable with that set up. My opinion is to pick one or the other and not both. If it does settle from the weigh of the tub at least have the same base so it settles equally. The Forever Floor is meant to be on any level and flat surface. Thats what it's designed for. Not sure where you got the info that the warrantee will be void if not on concrete surface. I presume it's from the competition.

Sunken in deck...Make sure you can access all sides. Mine is not sunken.

The Heatlock system is one of the main reasons I went with Arctic. Just makes sense to me. When a leak occurs, not if, when, I think it makes sense to have easy access to resolve the problem and not dig through foam...just like you mentioned. I agree. Forget about what you may hear about the unsupported plumbing causing leaks...nonsense IMHO.

I believe the Heatlock system recently saved me from a potential problem. I live in South Western PA and a couple of weeks ago we got 24" of snow. We lost power for 5 days straight. Temps were in the low to mid teens at night and never got out of the twenties in the day. After five days when my power was restored my tub was still at 78 degrees F. I did check the water daily with a digital thermometer just to be sure it didn't drop near freezing. I feel the temp was that high partly because of the Heatlock system and a decent cover.

All this is just my opinion and I'm sure there will be others that disagree. That's OK.

Probably the most important thing is to WET TEST! That is advice that everyone will be in agreement with.

Good luck!

Tom ab

[ruckus]

rently debating between 3 manufacturers

Arctic Sundance and Coast

Each time I talk to a sales guy they convince me why their tub is better

Which I guess I should expect

I really just need some unbiased opinions

I am leaning toward Arctic

1. Coast is the cheapest, should I be worried? (but i would get 2 5HP motors with 50 jets, in others for same price I get 2 4HP and 33 jets)

2. I hear the Arctic Forever floor isn't a good idea - I'm looking to put it half on settled interlocking brick, and half crushed stone, otherwise I need to get a concrete pad installed and tear out brick

3. I hear if I don't use a concrete pad (even with Forever Floor) the shell warranty is void (acrylic mnfctr warranty X)

4. If anyone has sunk a tub into or partially into a deck - would love to know if they were happy with that or not, is tub access a problem.

5. Arctic has the Heatlock system which makes sense to me, but is the guy full of it, I like the idea that if the tub leaked getting to it without having the shell all foamed up. Coast guy says tubs don't leak at the shell more at the connections not covered with foam.

That's a start for now - see if I get some responses and may post some more questions.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help

Hello Jeff, I to have looked at Arctic, coast, sundance, and jacuzzi.

1)Coast is out, Just looked and felt cheap.

2)Arctic summit signature - has good things and bad (for me) - cons) it is 1.5hour drive to their place, others are 10 min. Arctic floor is nice bit they all seem to have floors and should be put on a stable base. Arctic seems to use the same jet everywhere just bigger and smaller versions. didn't like the look neck jets although i haven't wet tested them but did see them in action. can't sit under the waterfall. dry tested the summit and it felt ok but seats are very bucketed it seemed. I'm still not sure of the thermal pane design when almost all "top" spas use full foam. Arctic plumbing is glued and the others (I'm looking at) are glued and clamped. Ive read lots of problems with Arctic and if i have one, like i said, 1.5hr drive!

- Pro) Jets are screw in and they seem to be alot better then what they used to be. I absolutely love the cover and feel it is the best in the business. strong shell (i was told lifetime warranty). easy access to plumbing and expandability. saltwater system (I'm unaware that anyone else is doing this). Made in Canada (I AM CANADIAN! GO CANADA GO! and live in Victoria BC so our weather is mild). All in all I think it's a good tub but the drive is killing it

3)sundance/jacuzzi - cons) cost, they are the most expensive of the 4 (I am looking at the 880 optima and the J470). cover, although good i think the arctic is much better. More difficult if problems arise to dig through the foam to repair. From what i read the circ pumps have failed on some people often (i hope they have fixed that problem).

- pros) close to me(10 min drive). fit and finish, they look and feel (controls) awesome. I like the lighting. Quietness( the jacuzzi is the quietest of the 3 and the arctic was the loudest (although i have not wet tested them but i have heard all 3 with water in them). i can sit under the waterfall (something i do at my friends place - he has a coast and the only one i saw with that feature. It was similar in price as the other 3 however doesn't seem to have the quality of the other 3). I like the variety of the jets. The arctic seems to have nice jets also however due to the distance...

I think it is gonna come down to the sundance vs jacuzzi for me. I am wet testing them this sat (feb 27) and will post my results. It is a shame to give up on arctic but i don't want to drive 3 hours for a wet test. I dont want to end up with a service fee for them to have to do the same. I don't think that arctic is as high end as sundance/jacuzzi but i would put them right behind! If i was going to save 2.5-3K then i would consider them more. Also the waterfall feature was a minus for me, they have it but you cannot sit under it.

As it stands now jacuzzi is leading, with a 250$ cheaper price, and quieter. The wet test will decide i guess!

I am also going to sink this in a deck so i will be pouring a pad with deck foundation anyways!

Hope this helps and i would love to read more feedback

John

[Roger]

I'm currently debating between 3 manufacturers

Arctic Sundance and Coast

Each time I talk to a sales guy they convince me why their tub is better

Which I guess I should expect

I really just need some unbiased opinions

I am leaning toward Arctic

1. Coast is the cheapest, should I be worried? (but i would get 2 5HP motors with 50 jets, in others for same price I get 2 4HP and 33 jets)

2. I hear the Arctic Forever floor isn't a good idea - I'm looking to put it half on settled interlocking brick, and half crushed stone, otherwise I need to get a concrete pad installed and tear out brick

3. I hear if I don't use a concrete pad (even with Forever Floor) the shell warranty is void (acrylic mnfctr warranty X)

4. If anyone has sunk a tub into or partially into a deck - would love to know if they were happy with that or not, is tub access a problem.

5. Arctic has the Heatlock system which makes sense to me, but is the guy full of it, I like the idea that if the tub leaked getting to it without having the shell all foamed up. Coast guy says tubs don't leak at the shell more at the connections not covered with foam.

That's a start for now - see if I get some responses and may post some more questions.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help

Don't even let leaks in the foam sway your decision. 99.9% of all leaks on hot tubs occur in the equipment area and very very few, if any leaks, occur in the foam during the life of most quality manufacturers. Don't let thermal pane versus full foam sway your decision. Only one tp manufacturer comes close to being energy effecient compared to FF and that is Arctic. The pump heating the water...LOL 4 hours a day the pump runs, 20 it doesn't.

Your decision should be made based on comfort of the tub and comfort in the dealer. Not sales spin.

[Tomab]

[

The pump heating the water...LOL 4 hours a day the pump runs, 20 it doesn't.

Your decision should be made based on comfort of the tub and comfort in the dealer. Not sales spin.

I'm not sure where it originated but I've seen it more than once the claim that Arctic heats the water with the pump by itself with no help from a heater. What the Heatlock system does do is use the heat generated by the pump to help heat and then retain the heat so it doesn't lose heat as fast inside of the cabinet. This in turn does actually heat the water if you compare it to the outside ambient temperature. That does reduce heating cost. Thats not spin. Just the way it is.

Does Arctic work better than others? I can't personally answer that. I have friends who have a non Arctic tubs and they are happy, but to me Arctics system does make sense. That's why I bought one.

Without a doubt it will help in a power outage as I previously posted.

Once again as Roger had stated as well. Wet test and dealer support!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The pump heating the water...LOL 4 hours a day the pump runs, 20 it doesn't.

Your decision should be made based on comfort of the tub and comfort in the dealer. Not sales spin.

I'm not sure where it originated but I've seen it more than once the claim that Arctic heats the water with the pump by itself with no help from a heater.

If you want to try that go ahead and disconnect your heater and I think you'll find that the pump running for filter cycles HELPS maintain the temp when its on but it that's not enough; you'll quickly find you still need the heater unless you plan to run the pump 24/7 which isn't what you want to do (and even then I'm not sure what the result would be).

I'm currently debating between 3 manufacturers

Arctic Sundance and Coast

Each time I talk to a sales guy they convince me why their tub is better

Which I guess I should expect

You are getting a lot of "information" from your sales guys in an attempt to sway you. Its time to put in the earplugs and go in and wet test these 3 brands. I'm not too familiar with Coast but as far as Arctic and Jacuzzi goes, they can each tell you why theirs is better (or worse, why their competitor is inferior) but in reality they are arguably equal options so you need to find out which fits you best in a wet test IMO.

[Tomab]

The pump heating the water...LOL 4 hours a day the pump runs, 20 it doesn't.

Your decision should be made based on comfort of the tub and comfort in the dealer. Not sales spin.

I'm not sure where it originated but I've seen it more than once the claim that Arctic heats the water with the pump by itself with no help from a heater.

If you want to try that go ahead and disconnect your heater and I think you'll find that the pump running for filter cycles HELPS maintain the temp when its on but it that's not enough; you'll quickly find you still need the heater unless you plan to run the pump 24/7 which isn't what you want to do (and even then I'm not sure what the result would be).

I'm currently debating between 3 manufacturers

Arctic Sundance and Coast

Each time I talk to a sales guy they convince me why their tub is better

Which I guess I should expect

I totally agree spatech. That was my whole point. I've heard rumors that Arctic claims to heat the water totally without a heater however thats not my position nor do I believe it's Arctics position.

[canucker]

I am very new to the tub world as well. I had it down to either a Coast or Arctic as well... I bought an Arctic Summit and had it installed in November. I love it! So far so good with everything about it!

[Wannago]

I would pick the Sundance over the others.

Don't confuse Sundance and Jacuzzi. Even though they are owned by the same company, they are not clones of each other.

I owned a J-480 last summer, for about 6 weeks, and then returned it and bought a Sundance Maxxus instead (long story - different thread).

The Sundance is head and shoulders superior to the Jacuzzi.

You DO get what you pay for!

[Roger]

I totally agree spatech. That was my whole point. I've heard rumors that Arctic claims to heat the water totally without a heater however thats not my position nor do I believe it's Arctics position.

Pumps move water, heaters heat water. Both do a great job at what they are designed to do. Anyone who thinks by utilizing the waste heat from the pump to create insulation and more effeciency is mistaken. Can the waste heat be used to reduce heat loss, sure. But the other 20 hours a day that the pump is not running to create insulation R-Value seems to indicate that the pump would kick on and off with the heater to make up for heat loss. So fully insulate and reduce vessel heat loss of don't insulate at all and increase vessel heat loss. Now the insulation on the side walls will slow heat loss, but the big wide open space will create convection creating more heat loss than no air space. Then there is no pump running for 20 hours so even more convection and loss.

It is not a better way to do. It is a way to do it, no dout. Does it work, sure, almost as good as full foam. As long as it is done right. Anyone who was sold because it was better has been misslead.

[ruckus]

I would pick the Sundance over the others.

Don't confuse Sundance and Jacuzzi. Even though they are owned by the same company, they are not clones of each other.

I owned a J-480 last summer, for about 6 weeks, and then returned it and bought a Sundance Maxxus instead (long story - different thread).

The Sundance is head and shoulders superior to the Jacuzzi.

You DO get what you pay for!

What did you like better about the sundance? I am about to wet test both so any pre info is great to know.

thanks

John

[Tomab]

Anyone who thinks by utilizing the waste heat from the pump to create insulation and more effeciency is mistaken.

Nobody said the waste heat from operating the pump creates insulation..

I am saying that the waste heat does contribute to the reduction of heat loss as long as the heat sources and body of water are contained within the confines of an insulated cabinet..just as it is in this case(insulated cabinet walls and cover).

You are correct in saying the pumps don't run long enough to continually supply heat to the water, but as long as the waste heat is within the well insulated area and some of that heat can to be transferred to the body of water or if it slows down the heat loss from the body of water there has to be some benefit to this. Logic. No wasted heat at all.

Both methods if done right provide a well insulated tub. All I am saying is that on equally insulated tubs when you utilize the waste heat(as minimal as some may say) and direct it to heating the body of water you use less energy than if you vented that heat into thin air.

I didn't mean to turn this into a pro or anti-Arctic thread but Arctic does make sense to me. Obviously Roger doesn't agree. Gotta love forums

Roger, with all due respect, I'm not trying to press your buttons. You have so much more knowledge about spas and the inner workings than I ever will and you have helped more people on giving sound advice on this forum than almost anyone. I'm being sincere . However this goes beyond the principals of hot tubs. One example is a home forced air furnace inside a well insulated home. The higher the efficiency the better. The less heat that goes up the chimney, or out the vent = less wasted heat....

Jeff, Sorry if this makes things more of a mess. All the brands you mentioned are high quality. WET TEST! ....

[waylon33]

Anyone who thinks by utilizing the waste heat from the pump to create insulation and more effeciency is mistaken.

Nobody said the waste heat from operating the pump creates insulation..

I am saying that the waste heat does contribute to the reduction of heat loss as long as the heat sources and body of water are contained within the confines of an insulated cabinet..just as it is in this case(insulated cabinet walls and cover).

You are correct in saying the pumps don't run long enough to continually supply heat to the water, but as long as the waste heat is within the well insulated area and some of that heat can to be transferred to the body of water or if it slows down the heat loss from the body of water there has to be some benefit to this. Logic. No wasted heat at all.

Both methods if done right provide a well insulated tub. All I am saying is that on equally insulated tubs when you utilize the waste heat(as minimal as some may say) and direct it to heating the body of water you use less energy than if you vented that heat into thin air.

I didn't mean to turn this into a pro or anti-Arctic thread but Arctic does make sense to me. Obviously Roger doesn't agree. Gotta love forums

Roger, with all due respect, I'm not trying to press your buttons. You have so much more knowledge about spas and the inner workings than I ever will and you have helped more people on giving sound advice on this forum than almost anyone. I'm being sincere . However this goes beyond the principals of hot tubs. One example is a home forced air furnace inside a well insulated home. The higher the efficiency the better. The less heat that goes up the chimney, or out the vent = less wasted heat....

Jeff, Sorry if this makes things more of a mess. All the brands you mentioned are high quality. WET TEST! ....

Tomab give yourself a little bit more credit on this subject. You actually own an Arctic spa and understand how it works. For instance the motor runs for eight hours a day unlike what others have stated. It wont fully heat the spa on its own, but it sure helps. Those that own and operate them fully understand how it works and have seen it work on an Arctic.

[Roger]

Tomab give yourself a little bit more credit on this subject. You actually own an Arctic spa and understand how it works. For instance the motor runs for eight hours a day unlike what others have stated. It wont fully heat the spa on its own, but it sure helps. Those that own and operate them fully understand how it works and have seen it work on an Arctic.

I never said it didn't work. It's just no magic pill and should never be considered better because of a sales pitch.

[dirty]

well im not an expert but i did sleep at a holiday inn express last night i have had my spa 3 weeks not a long time an artic summit love it for the massaging bennifits alone dealer support is a deffinate consideration so be very carefull about the whole 15 mins from a dealer being a good thing as my arctic dealer is over an 1hr and 15 mins away there is another dealer 10 mins from my house and there isnt a chance in hell i would by one of his spas....

wet test is/was the single bigggest seller for me! a have to and well worth the hr drive better to get something you like than settle with something you paid good money for

as for the pumps heating and insulation sales pitch here is my 2 cents a friend of mine has an artic tundra we lost power here for 8.5 straight days of highs in the teens due to an ice storm 77 degrees when the power came back on imho this was a good enough test as to the way it was insulated to me!

am i planning on heating my tub with the pumps no as this is retarted is there added heat from the pumps that aids in the process definatly when i add chemicals to the tub i allways run my jets to stirr the tub water this allways adds 2-3 degrees(pump heat) to my temp setting do i need to do that probably not as i filter the water 2 hrs a day 4 times a day but im still new and feeling my way around.... very happy with my purchase the insulation thing does scare me as in kansas i know we will have many hot(105) and cold days(5) best of both worlds there will be a leak at some point the full insulation might have a little better r value not sure but didn't like the thought of tearing it out to find it...just my thought s love me or hate im an artic man drinkin the coolaid with a smile

[waylon33]

Tomab give yourself a little bit more credit on this subject. You actually own an Arctic spa and understand how it works. For instance the motor runs for eight hours a day unlike what others have stated. It wont fully heat the spa on its own, but it sure helps. Those that own and operate them fully understand how it works and have seen it work on an Arctic.

I never said it didn't work. It's just no magic pill and should never be considered better because of a sales pitch.

I guess I dont understand how it isnt a useful way if it doesnt work. Seems to be a bit contradicting to me. Its not considered a magic pill at all, its pretty easy science really.

[hottubdan]

Guess what? Pumps aid in heating the water regardless of the insulation method. Pumps create friction which creates heat. Hot Spring's little circulation pump puts heat into the water from the pump, which is why we sometimes call it hybrid heating. Is it a reason to buy one brand vs. another? I' don't think so.

[d1dennis2009]

I have seen circulation pumps drive the water as high as 107 F with no use of the heater whatsoever..! It is a good benefit to have, but I would not use that as the sole reason to buy or not buy a specific brand or model. If I lived in Canada, I would want the added benifit of some foam insulation. But IMO I would check these models by wet testing and see how you feel after that process, and talk to people in the area and see what they have and if they are happy with the performance.

Good Luck in the search.

[UK Arctic Dealer]

Hi Jeffinwhitby,

i just wanted to put my opinion into the mix and i would love it to be not biased but i love Arctics, thats why i sell them!

I am not saying one tub is better than another i am just going to cover the questions you have asked.

1. Coast Spas: I cant comment on Coast so sorry i cant help with that one.

2. Forever floor: I think the forever floor is a fantastic idea. A watertight, insulated, sealed fibreglass base to your hot tub which prevents insects etc from getting into your tub. It also acts as a base and as such you dont need a concrete pad. We have installed Arctics with Forever floor on grass and this does not invalidate your lifetime shell warranty.As long as it is a level surface thats all you need. It also looks great too adding on average 6" of height to your spa.

3. see above.

4. Sinking your tub: If you sink your Arctic in decking we have access doors all around so as long as their is room for an engineer to crawl under the decking then thats no problem (sorry to engineers reading this). Partially sinking is fine too as long as the access doors can be opened (the opening screw is situated halfway up the door so this would neeed to be accessible).

5. Heatlock: The Heatlock system was developed by the owners of Arctic when they had problems with tubs breaking in freezing conditions in Canada. I think it works great and just for the record I can run a tub at 40 degrees in my showroom with the heater UNPLUGGED. Also it has other obvious benefits like getting inside the cabinet to upgrade the spa, add lights/stereo/jets at a later time or to carry out repairs to leaks that can happen and anyone who says they dont just do a search on here for threads regarding leaks on full foam spas and the problems they have had first locating them and then trying to fix them.

Anyway just wanted to give my opinion and good luck with your search.

[waylon33]

Guess what? Pumps aid in heating the water regardless of the insulation method. Pumps create friction which creates heat. Hot Spring's little circulation pump puts heat into the water from the pump, which is why we sometimes call it hybrid heating. Is it a reason to buy one brand vs. another? I' don't think so.

Its definetely a good start in my honest opinion. If a little circulation pump adds a bit of heat to the tub with insulation in the way, then I would imagine a bigger pump with no insulation in the way adds quite a bit.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Guess what? Pumps aid in heating the water regardless of the insulation method. Pumps create friction which creates heat. Hot Spring's little circulation pump puts heat into the water from the pump, which is why we sometimes call it hybrid heating. Is it a reason to buy one brand vs. another? I' don't think so.

Its definetely a good start in my honest opinion. If a little circulation pump adds a bit of heat to the tub with insulation in the way, then I would imagine a bigger pump with no insulation in the way adds quite a bit.

The circulation pump heats it through the water as its flowing through.

[castletonia]

I'm currently debating between 3 manufacturers

Arctic Sundance and Coast

Each time I talk to a sales guy they convince me why their tub is better

Which I guess I should expect

I really just need some unbiased opinions

I am leaning toward Arctic

1. Coast is the cheapest, should I be worried? (but i would get 2 5HP motors with 50 jets, in others for same price I get 2 4HP and 33 jets)

2. I hear the Arctic Forever floor isn't a good idea - I'm looking to put it half on settled interlocking brick, and half crushed stone, otherwise I need to get a concrete pad installed and tear out brick

3. I hear if I don't use a concrete pad (even with Forever Floor) the shell warranty is void (acrylic mnfctr warranty X)

4. If anyone has sunk a tub into or partially into a deck - would love to know if they were happy with that or not, is tub access a problem.

5. Arctic has the Heatlock system which makes sense to me, but is the guy full of it, I like the idea that if the tub leaked getting to it without having the shell all foamed up. Coast guy says tubs don't leak at the shell more at the connections not covered with foam.

That's a start for now - see if I get some responses and may post some more questions.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help

Coast makes a good tub. I wouldn't be worried about them being less expensive as the dealer is probably just selling them at a lower margin than the others might be. The dealer cost for Coast and Arctic are similar for comparable models. Coast also offers full-foam and thermopane insulation but I prefer the full-foam. I am a dealer for Coast and I believe they make one of the best spas on the market. All three brands you are looking at are good spas and good companies. Make sure you are comfortable with the dealer and choose which spa feels best to you.

[Roger]

Also it has other obvious benefits like getting inside the cabinet to upgrade the spa, add lights/stereo/jets at a later time or to carry out repairs to leaks that can happen and anyone who says they dont just do a search on here for threads regarding leaks on full foam spas and the problems they have had first locating them and then trying to fix them.

Anyway just wanted to give my opinion and good luck with your search.

Upgrade? Like drilling holes in the shell to add jets and manifolds and modifying the plumbing? Hmmmmm, seems this is also a sales sling? Drill holes and run wires for more lights? Stereo can be done in any equipment bay.

Sorry I'm not buying it for any of the stated reasons. If it is more comfortable, if the dealer is top notch and the price is where it needs to be then by all means purchase an Arctic you will have many years of happy service. But if your thinking it is more effecient or upgradable your sadly, being fooled.

I have wet tested a few models of Arctic. The dealer, top notch. For ME to confining of seating, to noisy and overpriced. The OP needs to wet test.

[waylon33]

Also it has other obvious benefits like getting inside the cabinet to upgrade the spa, add lights/stereo/jets at a later time or to carry out repairs to leaks that can happen and anyone who says they dont just do a search on here for threads regarding leaks on full foam spas and the problems they have had first locating them and then trying to fix them.

Anyway just wanted to give my opinion and good luck with your search.

Upgrade? Like drilling holes in the shell to add jets and manifolds and modifying the plumbing? Hmmmmm, seems this is also a sales sling? Drill holes and run wires for more lights? Stereo can be done in any equipment bay.

Sorry I'm not buying it for any of the stated reasons. If it is more comfortable, if the dealer is top notch and the price is where it needs to be then by all means purchase an Arctic you will have many years of happy service. But if your thinking it is more effecient or upgradable your sadly, being fooled.

I have wet tested a few models of Arctic. The dealer, top notch. For ME to confining of seating, to noisy and overpriced. The OP needs to wet test.

You couldnt add our Aquatremor stereo system to another brand of spa. It works with the open access area. And it can be added after purchase. Plus it is very common to add jets to Arctic after the sale. It would be FAR from SALES SLING by the way. They are all plumbed to do so. Those that dont own Arctics or do business with Arctic everyday probably wouldnt know this though.

[Tomab]

Also it has other obvious benefits like getting inside the cabinet to upgrade the spa, add lights/stereo/jets at a later time or to carry out repairs to leaks that can happen and anyone who says they dont just do a search on here for threads regarding leaks on full foam spas and the problems they have had first locating them and then trying to fix them.

Anyway just wanted to give my opinion and good luck with your search.

Upgrade? Like drilling holes in the shell to add jets and manifolds and modifying the plumbing? Hmmmmm, seems this is also a sales sling? Drill holes and run wires for more lights?

Roger, what really is it about the Arctic name you don't like! Just about every benefit that Arctic has with their design you put it off as "sales spin" or "sales sling". And when some actually does see or believe the benefits of certain design aspects of an Arctic spa you say we "have been misled" or " are sadly being fooled". What gives?!

This latest one you apparantly don't believe either about the drilling of holes in the shell. I can attest to usefullness. My dealer had to add an ozone system after it was delivered to me because they(the dealer not Arctic) forgot to order the tub with the ozone already installed. It took the dealer about 1 1/2 hours to do. Drill hole and modify the plumbing was very easy due to the fact that there was no foam to deal with. I watched him do it. I obviously wasn't happy about my dealer forgeting to order this but I would have been even more upset seeing him dig out foam on my brand new tub. I'm not making this up. You can check my past posts on this forum. Could this be done with a full foam spa...sure, but not nearly as easily.

I know everyone has their own opinion and that is great, but to trash almost every design from a certain quality manufacturer kind of makes me wonder, especially when certain things do make sense......at least in my opinion.

I must say I have no vested interest in ANY manufacturer and maybe should just shut my mouth but I just think Arctic is sometimes given a bad rap based on some preconceived notion that they are out to scam everyone....maybe there has been some unscupulous sales people in the past but thats not the manufactures fault nor is it limited only to Arctic.

jeffinwhitby, sorry if it seems like we are getting off topic from your original question,,,, just trying to sort things out.

The opinions expressed on this thread represent those of individual authors and unless clearly labeled as such do not represent the opinions or policies of any pool and spa forum member.