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Materials Used In Construction?


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I'm very new at this spa search process. This board has been a wondeful help. I'm looking a a Viking 2/3 person spa. They say that their contruction is of high density polyetheline, with a lifetime warranty on the spa shell. Aren't most spas mad of acrylic? Hot Springs told me a one year warranty on parts and labor. That seems to be quite a difference.

Also because they are manufactured in MI, they are supposed to be designed for colder climates and would contain the heat better. Could this be true?

Is a 4 HP motor big enuf for a 170 gallon spa?

Thanks for your feedback.

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HotSpring models have a 7 year surface warranty. It could have been the Solana line you were looking at..

Read close into the lifetime warranty, they can be deceiving.

I think they are quoting you Brake HP which is an inflated quote. The continuous HP is probably more like 2. Some pumps push more water than others so I would put your hands on the jets to see what the pressure is.

Wet testing is the best thing you can do to find a spa that feels good TO YOU.

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I'm very new at this spa search process. This board has been a wondeful help. I'm looking a a Viking 2/3 person spa. They say that their contruction is of high density polyetheline, with a lifetime warranty on the spa shell. Aren't most spas mad of acrylic? Hot Springs told me a one year warranty on parts and labor. That seems to be quite a difference.

Also because they are manufactured in MI, they are supposed to be designed for colder climates and would contain the heat better. Could this be true?

Is a 4 HP motor big enuf for a 170 gallon spa?

Thanks for your feedback.

I don't know that spa, but when I see High Density Polyethylene (HDPE), I'm thinking "rotomolded". Most spas are acrylic as you said, but rotomolded spas are not. The material has a different look and usually the seating is more "bench-style" than contoured bucket - but if you like it, it will be fine.

Acrylic spas are more expensive typically and while the surface is harder and can be either textured or more glossy, and you can get fancier shapes and seating, acrylic is not without problems. You won't usually get a lifetime warranty on an acrylic shell surface, although a few manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty on the structure. With an acrylic spa, the failures are by far more likely to be surface issues (blisters and delaminations of the multi-layer shell structure), so I think the "surface" warranty is the more important one. Hot spring most likely offers a different (longer) warranty on their shell... I am speculating but the one year parts and labor warranty seems pretty low for anything on a Hot Spring. You might want to visit their web site or ocntact the dealer for clarification. Perhaps that short warranty applies to one of their lower end brands?

The HDPE shell may carry a lifetime warranty. That stuff is extremely durable. But you want to read the actual language of the warranty to be sure. Any true lifetime warranty is pretty rare. Be sure to understand the difference between the "shell" and the "cabinet". It might be one piece, it might not be. Again, you have to look at the specific spa you're considering to know for sure.

The point of manufacture has nothing to do with the cold weather capability of the spa. That's just sales nonsense. Aircraft and, indeed, spacecraft operate is very cold environments and are built in places like California and Georgia. Many spas are also built in warm weather areas. The location of the plant really doesn't have much to do with anything except the shipping cost to your dealer.

Power of the pumps is totally unrelated to the volume of water in the spa. The pumps create the flow throught the jets. Even at that, between the "creative" way that manufacturers come up with horsepower ratings, and the design of the system, you can't tell anything about how the jets will feel from the ratings. You really need to go to the dealer and try it out to know if you will like it, and if it'ss powerful enough for you.

Good luck!

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I have to agree. If you were told a 1yr warranty by a Hot Spring dealer, it was probably a Solana or Hot Spot model. The actual Hot Spring models carry a 7 year shell surface warranty, and 5 years on the rest of the spa (excluding LED lights).

As far as the Acrylic versus Poly shells. Acrylic is probably the most common at this point (there's differences in how this is backed, ABS or Fiberglass for instance). Poly isn't as common, however the Hot Spring makers just released two Hot Spot models which use a poly shell material. It's pretty hardy stuff though, just isn't molded as much as Acrylic seats are.

Three more points of advice as you shop:

1) Ignore HP ratings on pumps, it really means little to nothing in truth.

2) Just because a spa is made in a cold climate, doesn't automatically mean it's efficient or well insulated. Hot Spring is arguably the (or one of the) most efficient spas made, and it's made in Southern California. So where it's made doesn't necessarily mean anything.

3) Read the actual warranty from the manufacturer. Lifetime doesn't mean all inclusive, or that they pay for everything either. Educate yourself on what the manufacturer actually says. :)

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i would agree , just because of were the spa is made does not mean it is necesarily made for that area, we have a local manufacturer here that was built here noe they are owned by big company, but we get cold up here and the spa was open to the ground no base, also the ony insulation was around the shell, there also was a manufacturer built washington that was terrible no insulation again not even the (arctic wrap, dead air space) there shells were so thin when they are on there side you can see through the shell and see the outline of the flex pipe. now they are gone.....also a lot of spas shells are acrylic. but you also have shells with rotational molded plastic shells similiar stuff like you new playground equipment has gone to, your Mcdonalds playland stuff, etc. also you have these acrylic molded,,,, the plastic molded have been around a while,, a few brands South Pacific, Freeflow, Dreammaker, stong spas,,,,etc......the molded acylic,,, Cal , Viking, i don't like as well....and as for the most energy efficient spas out there you can generate a lot of arguments to it...your Hot Springs.D1, Sundance, and Jacuzzi.H20. i think would be way up there, then you got the Arctic guys. i do not think one of these outperform each other by much to make that much of difference,,,including the Hot Springs. and also look at the fine print of any warranty on there xlaims, i tell and show that to our customers on the brands i sell, especially the lifetime warranty......

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  • 7 years later...

I was looking into the plastic tubs recently, and wondered if those could be sketchy to soak in somehow, long term, based on the material itself being heated. Well maybe so, according to an article, which mentions that polyethylene will release chemicals when "stressed", and moist heat or ultraviolet light are considered to be such stressors, so it seems kind of sketchy there: Most Plastic Products Release Estrogenic Chemicals https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987

Otherwise, the acrylic sheet used more commonly in hot tubs, polymethyl methacrylate (PMMA), doesn't seem to be mentioned in that article, and then in another one, on Wikipedia, it states that "PMMA does not contain the potentially harmful bisphenol-A", and "its environmental stability is superior to most other plastics such as polystyrene and polyethylene, and PMMA is therefore often the material of choice for outdoor applications": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poly(methyl_methacrylate) 

So yeah, I'm more likely a fan of acrylic tubs now (whether those are technically plastic too, some classify it as glass, and there may be an important difference between the two, besides aesthetics or initial price). Wild guess, as far as looking into it...  and speaking of looks, I also wondered if there was a difference in the materials used for textured acrylic finishes (because the cheaper plastic tubs look similar that way), however it appears that a given texture doesn't mix other plastics into the process: "The next development was to create 'granite' surfaces to build on the growing popularity of using granite and solid surface products for kitchen countertops. These granite products are produced by mixing small or large particles (chopped up) of colored acrylic sheet or blocks into a matrix of colored or clear acrylic sheet." http://www.multitechproducts.com/pages/Acrylic-Spas{47}Hot-Tubs.html

That's good, although I later found a more recent study, following up on the first article, which addresses acrylics as well: "Conversely, for acrylic-based resins, 100% EtOH [ethanol] as a solvent was more effective than water-based solvents in extracting chemicals with EA.... In contrast, following UV stresses (UVA and/or UVC), 32/41 products demonstrated leaching of chemicals with EA, including most acrylic, PES, PS, and Tritan™ products. That is, UV stresses increased the probability (and perhaps the levels) of the total EA of chemicals leaching from PC-replacement products."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4063249
 
So it would seem that acrylic hot tubs are best used away from direct sunlight too, yet the hot water alone would not be as likely to affect acrylic as it would polyethylene tubs, perhaps leaching chemicals as a result (which is said to be "accelerated" by such "common-use stresses", in the initial article). The environmental stability of acrylic hot tubs would factor in mostly for being moist heat resistant then, and not necessarily better in every way, as a tub material (versus a non-plastic shell).
 
Interestingly enough, in looking for a comparison between drinking and soaking vessels on the topic (however obscure this may be, as a priority in publications, where there's more to be said about soaking beans than beings),  another article mentions that using sponges can significantly reduce the concentrations of chemicals leached from plastics into water: https://www.chemistryworld.com/research/labs-and-wastewater-cleaned-with-the-same-sponge/8447.article 
 
As such, this may be useful in plastic-based spa maintenance (unless that method soaked up everything else meant to maintain the water too).  At least keeping a sponge or two in there while bathing might help with that (or cleaning the filters more frequently could work, if those qualify as a sponges all the same).
 
After all, It isn't unheard of for even bathing conditions to be an issue for someone, reading about the integument here: "The oily layer of the skin of the individual with chemical sensitivity can be damaged by contact with solvents in bathing water... Toxic chemicals known to produce skin reactions include plastic additives."  https://books.google.com/books?id=_UrRBQAAQBAJ
 
Whether one has chemical sensitivity at any given time may be unknown (or acute if skin is broken for example), so I think it's good to factor out any of those chemicals, if there's a potential problem based on the material. Maybe easier said than done, in general (being that it isn't entirely understood), but I feel like making an informed decision of sorts, since I'm looking at spas for someone who could be more sensitive.
 
To me, it's just one more thing to consider, upfront if possible. Not that I was hoping to open a can of worms, or leeches (whatever)... I gathered as much reading about plumbing problems here, etc. ;)
 
Hmm... well there's another material to compare here, speaking of plumbing: "Type 3 (PVC) may contain bisphenol A as an antioxidant in 'flexible PVC' softened by plasticizers, but not rigid PVC such as pipe, windows, and siding."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#Identification_in_plastics
 
"According to 'The Handbook of PVC Pipe' (Uni-Bell, 3rd Edition) PVC pipe and fittings are
immune to nearly all types of corrosion that could result in the leaching of corrosion products.
The Handbook provides detailed data regarding the resistance of PVC pipe to numerous
chemicals and states that PVC pipe and fittings are resistant to chemicals generally found in
water and sewer systems."
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents/permeationandleaching.pdf
 
So I guess the biggest difference is still  between shell materials, whether that's really big or not (unless you drink the water), they have the pipes in common, and PVC doesn't appear to be mentioned in the other articles.
 
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