sdriv Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well I just got my taylor kit and and my CYA is over 80 ppm! I have been using dichlor not realizing the whole CYA sinario. Anyway is there a way to lower it without dumping and refilling? If not and I keep using the dichlor what are the ill effects ? P.S. I have read a lot about the bleach method but that didn't go over to well with the wife( she's a freak about bleach) and believe me I tried to explain that is basically the same thing but it just was a lost cause.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well I just got my taylor kit and and my CYA is over 80 ppm! I have been using dichlor not realizing the whole CYA sinario. Anyway is there a way to lower it without dumping and refilling? If not and I keep using the dichlor what are the ill effects ? P.S. I have read a lot about the bleach method but that didn't go over to well with the wife( she's a freak about bleach) and believe me I tried to explain that is basically the same thing but it just was a lost cause.Thanks CYA can only be readily reduced by water dilution. There is a slow oxidation of CYA by chlorine at hot spa temperatures, but it's at a rate of around 5 ppm per month (at around 4 ppm FC with 30 ppm CYA on average) so is not an effective way to reduce it. Many people use the Dichlor-only method and the main effect of the buildup of CYA is to reduce chlorine's effectiveness because it reduces the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) concentration. This slows down kill rates and might be a cause for an increase in hot tub itch/rash/lung incidents and for slower oxidation of organics that makes the water turn dull/cloudy sooner. With Dichlor, for every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) that it adds, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 9 ppm so it builds up rather quickly as you have found. Most Dichlor-only users just change their water more frequently. With Dichlor-then-bleach you can usually go twice as long before changing the water and even then the water quality is often better even when you do change it. If your wife objects to bleach, then you can use lithium hypochlorite instead (BioGuard Burn Out 35 or Omni Lithium Hypohlorite, for example). It's a powdered form of unstabilized chlorine, but it does cost more than 5 times as much as bleach. Just be sure to start out after a fresh refill using Dichlor to build up the CYA to 30 ppm before switching. What exactly is the objection to bleach? Is it the likelihood of spilling it and bleaching out clothes? Or is it the use of chlorine itself? If the latter, Dichlor adds the identical chlorine as bleach -- it just also adds to CYA. By first using Dichlor to build up some CYA, the active chlorine level is significantly reduced. 4 ppm with 30 ppm CYA at hot spa temperatures (104F) has the same active chlorine concentration as [EDIT] 0.6 ppm FC [END-EDIT] with no CYA (at a pH of 7.5). [EDIT] Note my important comments in the post below on lowering the TA and using 50 ppm Borates for pH stability. [END-EDIT] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrustar Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 If your CYA is high, and changing water is not an option due to freezing weather, can a person just switch to adding bleach rather than continue to use dichlor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 If your CYA is high, and changing water is not an option due to freezing weather, can a person just switch to adding bleach rather than continue to use dichlor? Yes, one can switch to using bleach (or lithium hypochlorite) at any time (assuming one has at least 30 ppm CYA already) and that will prevent CYA from building up any more. Note that Dichlor is net acidic. Upon addition it's fairly pH neutral, but the consumption/usage of chlorine is acidic so the net effect when using Dichlor is similar to adding acid. So odds are you've kept the Total Alkalinity (TA) higher, likely above 80 ppm, and when you switch to using bleach you will find that the pH will rise fairly rapidly and a high pH can produce scaling. So you'll want to lower the TA, though with a high CYA don't lower it as far -- subtract 1/3rd the CYA level from your TA measurement and don't lower the adjusted (for CYA) TA below around 40 ppm (i.e. if your CYA is 90 ppm and your TA is 100 ppm, then this is an adjusted TA of 100 - 90/3 = 70 ppm so you'd only lower your TA by 30 ppm to a measured TA of 70 ppm which is an adjusted TA of 40 ppm in this example). You will also likely want to add 50 ppm Borates to the water for further pH stability. I want to reiterate that people have been using Dichlor-only for a very long time so don't feel pressured or rushed into changing immediately. You can switch at your next refill if you want to and just take the small risk until you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdriv Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Thanks Chem geek. My wife has this notion that bleach is going to kill everything including her and her son. As soon as she saw the bleach in the cabinet she asked what is was for and then she went straight to the computer and found every article about why not to use bleach bla.. bla.. So now I am looking for my alternatives. I will look into the other product you mentioned. But in the long run after showing her all the articles here I hope to convert her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Commercial Solutions® Ultra Clorox® Germicidal Bleach I is a 6.15% sodium hypochlorite solution, containing approximately 5.84% available chlorine by weight. The purity of its ingredients and the carefully supervised process of its manufacture make Commercial Solutions® Ultra Clorox® Germicidal Bleach I a quality source of chlorine for water treatment in swimming and wading pools. Commercial Solutions® Ultra Clorox® Germicidal Bleach I is especially suitable for use in chlorinators as it is a liquid and has no insoluble particles. Commercial Solutions® Ultra Clorox® Germicidal Bleach I is widely used as a source of chlorine for swimming pool sanitation and does not have any adverse effects on materials used in pool construction including swimming pool liners. http://cloroxprofessional.com/bsb.pdf This Clorox can be found at hardware stores such as Home Depot and Lowe's. It is essentially the same as regular Clorox except that regular Clorox contains a little bit of sodium polyacrylate, which I would not be concerned about. Regular Clorox is approved by Clorox for treating drinking water and swimming pools. Disinfection of Drinking Water (Potable) When boiling of water for 1 minute is not practical, water can be made potable by using this product. Prior to addition of this product, remove all suspended material by filtration or by allowing it to settle to the bottom. Decant the clarified contaminated water to a clean container and add 8 drops of this product to 1 gallon of water (2 drops to 1 quart). Allow the treated water to stand for 30 minutes. Properly treated water should have a slight chlorine odor. If not, repeat dosage and allow the water to stand an additional 15 minutes. The treated water can then be made palatable by pouring it between clean containers several times. For cloudy water, use 16 drops of this product per gallon of water (4 drops to 1 quart). If no chlorine odor is apparent after 30 minutes, repeat dosage and wait an additional 15 minutes. http://www.clorox.com/products/usage.php?p...amp;style=print You can call Clorox at 800-292-2200 to listen to an automated recording about using regular Clorox in swimming or wading pools. You can also go to the pool store to buy "Liquid Chlorine", which is 12 % sodium hypochlorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Nail Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Chem Geek can you use Calcium hypochroite instead of lithium hypochlorite? Regards, Cliff Edited June 9, 2020 by Cliff Nail Did not use fourm name used first name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 45 minutes ago, Cliff Nail said: Chem Geek can you use Calcium hypochroite instead of lithium hypochlorite? Regards, Cliff Hey Cliff. Chem Geek has not been to this forum in over 2 years. Here is some info that might help you out. https://taylortechnologies.com/en/page/123/whats-best-for-a-spa-chlorine-or-bromine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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