Can You Stand Another Newbie?

[canucker]

Ok, so I've done a little research and had the spiel from Arctic Spa & Hydropool.... I live in southern Ontario so I need a good winter hot tub. Both sales rep indicated that I should be looking only at hot tubs manufactured for cold climates, which makes sense to me. That would eliminate California/Fla etc...manufacturers. After reading quite a bit on these forums (like another new guy said....my eyes are killing me too!) I guess I'm a little more confused and undecided than I was before.

A few posters make the point that if it's your first hot tub purchase then it might not be a good idea to spend lots of money. Kind of makes sense....but on the other hand I don't want problems either. (I guess nobody does, new or experienced owners). I just think that I don't know what I'm doing and the more "service" optiions the better. OR is it something that maintenance and operation can be picked up quickly? There is a huge price difference between what Costco in my area is offering (Apollo Explorer) at $5999. and the package that my local Arctic guy is offering. He has a Yukon Signature (or a Cub) offered at $11000. In the package he is giving me a Pergola, steps, cover, cover lifter, setup and delivery, starter chemicals, and tax of 5% included. Is this a good deal?

If I don't want to spend as much (which I really don't) he has a Coyote Drifter for $6600, offering the same option package included in that price. Sales rep doesn't seem so keen on the Coyote...but I don't know if it's just because of the commission difference???

Basically I need feedback on the following:

1) the above-mentioned 'deals'

2) the "forever floor" on the Arctic Spas make this make appealing > is this offered on other makes?

3) I want a salt water tub...is this a good choice?

4) should I be looking at other makes that might be just as good for a Canadian winter, but less costly? (need a 6 person tub)

[d1dennis2009]

I'm not sure that I woul base my decision on where a spa is manufactured.D1 Spas are made in California, and they are one of the best selling spa in Canada.I would recommend you with a few other brands before you make a selection.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Ok, so I've done a little research and had the spiel from Arctic Spa & Hydropool.... I live in southern Ontario so I need a good winter hot tub. Both sales rep indicated that I should be looking only at hot tubs manufactured for cold climates, which makes sense to me. That would eliminate California/Fla etc...manufacturers. After reading quite a bit on these forums (like another new guy said....my eyes are killing me too!) I guess I'm a little more confused and undecided than I was before.

4) should I be looking at other makes that might be just as good for a Canadian winter, but less costly? (need a 6 person tub)

That is salesmanship 101 meant to make you think teh competition is inferior. Watkins makes/sells more spas that anyone (Hot Spring/Caldera) selling all throughout the world and Sundance/Jacuzzi is second and they are all well made and well insulated for both Phoenix and Toronto. Its not like they're made by a bunch of surfer dudes in sandals and shorts on the beach. They're built for all climates just as the ones made in cold cliamtes are.

You should start byn looking at all options from reputable spa makers in your are and see which you like and fits you the best ( I'd start looking at the websites of makers like Arctic, Beachcomber, Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance to use their dealer locators to see who is in your area).

[willow]

where are you located? The sundance in Orillia and Jacuzzi in Barrie are very helpful and they do not put down the other companies. Sundance quoted a price $1300.00 cheaper than the Newmarket store without me even telling them I had been there.

[canucker]

where are you located? The sundance in Orillia and Jacuzzi in Barrie are very helpful and they do not put down the other companies. Sundance quoted a price $1300.00 cheaper than the Newmarket store without me even telling them I had been there.

I'm in Mississauga. There doesn't seem to be a Jacuzzi dealer closeby. Do you know if they have the fiberglass bottom, where you don't have to have anything under except a pad?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I'm in Mississauga. There doesn't seem to be a Jacuzzi dealer closeby. Do you know if they have the fiberglass bottom, where you don't have to have anything under except a pad?

You can put any spa on a pad!

[canucker]

I'm in Mississauga. There doesn't seem to be a Jacuzzi dealer closeby. Do you know if they have the fiberglass bottom, where you don't have to have anything under except a pad?

You can put any spa on a pad!

Well I meant without having to have a poured concrete base....the Artic Spas can go directly on grass with just some screening, because of the fibreglass shell. All the other makes I've read about seem to require the concrete or reinforced deck base. But, I'm new to this game...so go easy

[Markee]

canucker: There are several spa brands that use a base similar to Arctic. Marquis Spas and Jacuzzi Spas use a "pan" type bottom that is fully sealed in plastic. It's not a good idea to put any spa directly on grass because it may sink down. It's a better idea to put it on gravel, paving stones, or EZ Pads if you don't want to pour a concrete slab.

[Mr_spa2]

Hi, we supply costco a couple of spas that may interest you, the winnipeg and thunder bay both offer great value and a worry free double garantee from canadian spa and costco

The winnipeg is 2 metres x 2 metres with 44 jets led light ozone and comes with synthetic sides, the ethunder bay comes in a cedar cabinet 2.2 metre square with the same equipment

Delivery is included and bringing the spa to the back yard can be easily arranged by local lanscapers who do this job quite often

if you want something with a few more pumps, try our alberta platinum from Home depot online

Get yourself informed and you will see that most of the components are the same in every spa, look for strong waranties and companies that will honour there warranties

hopefully we can be your spa supplier

canadian spa company

[Roger]

Hi, we supply costco a couple of spas that may interest you, the winnipeg and thunder bay both offer great value and a worry free double garantee from canadian spa and costco

The winnipeg is 2 metres x 2 metres with 44 jets led light ozone and comes with synthetic sides, the ethunder bay comes in a cedar cabinet 2.2 metre square with the same equipment

Delivery is included and bringing the spa to the back yard can be easily arranged by local lanscapers who do this job quite often

if you want something with a few more pumps, try our alberta platinum from Home depot online

Get yourself informed and you will see that most of the components are the same in every spa, look for strong waranties and companies that will honour there warranties

hopefully we can be your spa supplier

canadian spa company

Get yourself even more informed and understand that componant manufacturers make several lines of controlers/heaters/pumps. Some much better than others with the same manufacturers name on all of them. Costco's past history with manufacturers tells us all to look beyond a flashy made up spec sheet and low price, to 3 companys out of business and not honoring warrantys. Past history also tells us that a Costco tub is what it is, an inexpensive throw away option to a well built, long lasting, energy effiecient, maitanence free hot tub with strong dealer and manufacturer backing. So if your not sure if the hot tub lifestyle is for you and want to be your own support service and 4-6 years of reasonably trouble free life (maybe) is what your looking for the options available at any big box store may be right for you. But if 15-20 years or more of trouble free hot tubbing is what your looking for then go a different route please. Add a minamum of double the energy use into your value equation.

[DK117]

Hi, we supply costco a couple of spas that may interest you, the winnipeg and thunder bay both offer great value and a worry free double garantee from canadian spa and costco

The winnipeg is 2 metres x 2 metres with 44 jets led light ozone and comes with synthetic sides, the ethunder bay comes in a cedar cabinet 2.2 metre square with the same equipment

Delivery is included and bringing the spa to the back yard can be easily arranged by local lanscapers who do this job quite often

if you want something with a few more pumps, try our alberta platinum from Home depot online

Get yourself informed and you will see that most of the components are the same in every spa, look for strong waranties and companies that will honour there warranties

hopefully we can be your spa supplier

canadian spa company

Get yourself even more informed and understand that componant manufacturers make several lines of controlers/heaters/pumps. Some much better than others with the same manufacturers name on all of them. Costco's past history with manufacturers tells us all to look beyond a flashy made up spec sheet and low price, to 3 companys out of business and not honoring warrantys. Past history also tells us that a Costco tub is what it is, an inexpensive throw away option to a well built, long lasting, energy effiecient, maitanence free hot tub with strong dealer and manufacturer backing. So if your not sure if the hot tub lifestyle is for you and want to be your own support service and 4-6 years of reasonably trouble free life (maybe) is what your looking for the options available at any big box store may be right for you. But if 15-20 years or more of trouble free hot tubbing is what your looking for then go a different route please. Add a minamum of double the energy use into your value equation.

Roger, Mr Spa2 sounds like an insider ... maybe he has some experience and is voicing his opinion? But my reason for responding to your post is this ... have you ever seen a heating bill for a Strong Spa? I actually agree with most of your post, having just purchased a Costco tub to be delivered in 4 weeks, I want to know how you know that I need to add a minimum of double the energy use vs ... what (Arctic?) To be honest, this post isn't up to your normal helpful quality responses. In addition, I know there are some tub owners in the 15 to 20 year time frame, and in this aspect I 100% defer to your experience, but have you heard of technology migration? I can't imagine any tub standing up to it's current model 10 years into the future.

Just my two cents.

DK117

[Roger]

Get yourself informed and you will see that most of the components are the same in every spa, look for strong waranties and companies that will honour there warranties

I appoligize DK but this statement above is where I lost it. Any insider knows that Balboa/Gecko makes economy controllers that are allot different than there premium controllers and on and on for all component manufacturers. So this statement is a plain and simple lie to sell a product, not and opinion. And if he is trying through deception to sell a product how can you not consider that the last 3 companys to sell through Costco have gone under and ARE NOT honoring warrantys. You would have to be blind to not see or understand that.

So is he an insider with knowledge or a salesman?

I have never seen a heating bill for a strong spa. But there has also been no report here of a strong spa independently being monitored with a meter. Any speculation by a new owner is useless to everyone considering a Strong spa purchase. And I have monitored several premium brands with meters for folks. So I have the true cost of about 6 brands of higher end units and a couple value lines. Which of course would only be of any use to someone living in Northern Minnesota where I am.

The one thing I can't argue with you is the tech migration. It's a good thing these inexpensive value lines from box stores are that cheap. Because that is a good nitch for them. Alot of folks don't mind a new spa every 4-6 years. so you could have 3 new ones that would get you to 15 years with better technology (cheap, flashy, exterior technology mostly) every time. And you would be into it for around 12-15 grand plus moving, repair and I garauntee higher energy usage.

[canucker]

Thanks for everyone's input. I guess there's a lot more to the hot-tubbing world than I realized at the outset of all this. In my original post I had asked if ppl thought the Arctic offer was a good deal...or should I continue shopping around? I really wanted to spend $6-7000 on the actual hot tub and then $3,000ish on installation and making the area look nice with some kind of enclosure etc. I need to put it on gravel screening WITH one of those EZ pads as opposed to a poured concrete base, so I suppose that leaves me shopping for a tub with the kind of base/shell that can go on that foundation. So, what would be the brand names I should take a look at? I've seen Hydropool and Arctic and can't afford Beachcomber. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I would like to get 10-15 years out of it, "trouble-free" if possible..... (I know there's luck involved too as every brand has their lemons).

Thanks for any and all input.... (oh ya, the Arctic deal was inclusive of taxes, pad base, pergola, stairs, basic lights, set up, delivery for $11,000 Cndn)

[DK117]

Thanks for everyone's input. I guess there's a lot more to the hot-tubbing world than I realized at the outset of all this. In my original post I had asked if ppl thought the Arctic offer was a good deal...or should I continue shopping around? I really wanted to spend $6-7000 on the actual hot tub and then $3,000ish on installation and making the area look nice with some kind of enclosure etc. I need to put it on gravel screening WITH one of those EZ pads as opposed to a poured concrete base, so I suppose that leaves me shopping for a tub with the kind of base/shell that can go on that foundation. So, what would be the brand names I should take a look at? I've seen Hydropool and Arctic and can't afford Beachcomber. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I would like to get 10-15 years out of it, "trouble-free" if possible..... (I know there's luck involved too as every brand has their lemons).

Thanks for any and all input.... (oh ya, the Arctic deal was inclusive of taxes, pad base, pergola, stairs, basic lights, set up, delivery for $11,000 Cndn)

Canucker, I think we're on to something here. Budget is a consideration for just about everyone on this board. And total project cost is a real issue. This includes things like electrical, lighting, cover lifters, set up, chemicals, pergola and slab/deck/pavers. I started my search with Arctic, as I understand them to be the best cabinet base on the market, claiming to even be able to sit on anything. I later learned that most everyone would recommend some sort of base, even crushed rock at a minimum (concrete slab seems to be the majority here.) Personally I chose concrete pavers which subsequentally made the hot tub a small piece of the entire project budget. I feel I chose high end on the overall project, but with this being my first tub (yup, total newbie here) I chose the Costco CSXi80 which seems to have a cabinet every bit as strong as an Arctic and while it does have Balboa parts (heater anyway) I'm confident that Roger is correct and they are value line models. But at $4799 US the deal worked for me. Now I'm thrilled to open up this discussion on technology migration. I'm pretty confident that I don't want a 10 year old tub, 10 years in the future. I nearly purchased an 8 year old Arctic off of craigslist and it just had too many issues. So while Roger might not agree with my technology migration, toe dipping purchase, we can at least understand the thought process. If you want 10-15 years of trouble free, go with Arctic. If you want to try the tubbing lifestyle out and upgrade in 5 to 10 years, I don't think you can beat the Costco Strong Spa offereings. Who knows, maybe hot tubs will have solar panels on their covers in 10 years.

DK117

[canucker]

I am also attracted to the Costco deal...but I can't figure out why the Cndn Costco has the same tub for $6500. when they can offer it for $2000. less in the U.S. (there isn't that much exchange difference!) Then I still need the pad that it sits on, steps, cover-lifter the pergola, plus I don't get anybody to come and help me set it up and give me lessons on chemicals etc... So, if I went with the Costco one it would be over $8000. including tax. If I spend $1500 to $2000 on a Pergola then I'm at 9000 to 10,000 and I no longer have a really economical set-up...which would be the point of going the Costco route. I guess what I wonder is, wouldn't the Arctic deal of $11,000 all in perhaps be the way to go afterall? I don't know, I guess it's a gamble.

[DK117]

I am also attracted to the Costco deal...but I can't figure out why the Cndn Costco has the same tub for $6500. when they can offer it for $2000. less in the U.S. (there isn't that much exchange difference!) Then I still need the pad that it sits on, steps, cover-lifter the pergola, plus I don't get anybody to come and help me set it up and give me lessons on chemicals etc... So, if I went with the Costco one it would be over $8000. including tax. If I spend $1500 to $2000 on a Pergola then I'm at 9000 to 10,000 and I no longer have a really economical set-up...which would be the point of going the Costco route. I guess what I wonder is, wouldn't the Arctic deal of $11,000 all in perhaps be the way to go afterall? I don't know, I guess it's a gamble.

Canucker, I think you've answered your own question. If you have two options, a Costco do it yourself installation vs an Arctic dealer support and the total project cost is only 10 to 20% higher, Arctic sounds like the way to go. Maybe go down to the Arctic dealership and say you're ready to purchase the entire bundle for 10K Cndn. Do a wet test to show them you're serious and play hardball on the final price negotiations.

A few points however, the Costco spa I ordered does include the steps, and Costco US just (Monday) lowered the price by $700, and I do admit that my do it yourself installation is also a risk/gamble. And I'll have to pay the delivery company or movers $100 to $200 just to get it from the curb into my back yard.

DK117

[Roger]

Canucker, I think we're on to something here. Budget is a consideration for just about everyone on this board. And total project cost is a real issue. This includes things like electrical, lighting, cover lifters, set up, chemicals, pergola and slab/deck/pavers. I started my search with Arctic, as I understand them to be the best cabinet base on the market, claiming to even be able to sit on anything. I later learned that most everyone would recommend some sort of base, even crushed rock at a minimum (concrete slab seems to be the majority here.) Personally I chose concrete pavers which subsequentally made the hot tub a small piece of the entire project budget. I feel I chose high end on the overall project, but with this being my first tub (yup, total newbie here) I chose the Costco CSXi80 which seems to have a cabinet every bit as strong as an Arctic and while it does have Balboa parts (heater anyway) I'm confident that Roger is correct and they are value line models. But at $4799 US the deal worked for me. Now I'm thrilled to open up this discussion on technology migration. I'm pretty confident that I don't want a 10 year old tub, 10 years in the future. I nearly purchased an 8 year old Arctic off of craigslist and it just had too many issues. So while Roger might not agree with my technology migration, toe dipping purchase, we can at least understand the thought process. If you want 10-15 years of trouble free, go with Arctic. If you want to try the tubbing lifestyle out and upgrade in 5 to 10 years, I don't think you can beat the Costco Strong Spa offereings. Who knows, maybe hot tubs will have solar panels on their covers in 10 years.

DK117

I think DK that you are a realist. It seems you have an understanding of exactly what you bought. And from what I see your not making a claim that we have heard several hundred times before on this board "it's the same as the 8000 dollar tub the dealer sells" My first tub that I actualy paid for was a value Great Lakes 4 grand ( I had a couple used ones before that for a short time each) That was about 7-8 years ago that I bought that. The reason I bought it was because I also didn't know if I wanted a tub in my yard for 15-20 years. 4 grand made sence. I've since had a couple others set up for a month or so and a few for only a week or so. If I didn't have access to quality and long lasting brands and wanted it, Costco is not the way I would go. I would pay more and get quality. But I do understand buying from Costco in cases like yours and several others. What I don't understand is how most don't see or understand the differences and make the comparision of, it's the same???

[DK117]

What I don't understand is how most don't see or understand the differences and make the comparision of, it's the same???

I don't think any (many) of us Costco newbie crowd would actually say a 4K Costco spa = 8K Arctic. I haven't weighed in on this yet because if there is a hotter issue on this board than Costco spas, it's the monopoly (used car salesman) dealer model/mentality. So two things are happening:

1. We don't want to deal with the salesperson (PLEASE give me an edmunds.com or kbb.com for hottubs)

2. While the argument has been made that Costco is Walmartesque in it's desire for price point vs quality (I'm not going to argue that point now.) It must be noted that IF Costco could offer an Arctic or whatever high end name brand, it would do so at a lesser price point than a locally owned dealer for the exact same tub. It's simple economies of scale. The assumption from us outside newbies, is that the dealer is padding their profits at our expense. Pick your number, maybe $1500 per tub.

I expect a ration of **** for this post, but I'm pretty sure I'm far from alone in this thought process.

DK117.

And I've got to bump this thread because I absolutely love the subject line. Can you guys stand another newbie?

[DK117]

double bump. Roger can you please address this question from the OP?

"OR is it something that maintenance and operation can be picked up quickly?"

I'm going to need some major help in 4 weeks. I acutally plan on purchasing chemicals and attending the spa orientation class at my local Arctic if they will have me.

DK117

[Tom]

canucker: There are several spa brands that use a base similar to Arctic. Marquis Spas and Jacuzzi Spas use a "pan" type bottom that is fully sealed in plastic. It's not a good idea to put any spa directly on grass because it may sink down. It's a better idea to put it on gravel, paving stones, or EZ Pads if you don't want to pour a concrete slab.

Is an ABS plastic pan comparable to the pressure-moulded SMC fiberglass Forever Floor? I'd guess that the plastic isn't as strong and is more flexible. Some interesting spas out there with moulded ABS where intrusions serve to support the seats.

As long as the grassed area is properly prepared -- level and firmly packed -- it should support an Arctic. I've seen this done at our training facility, where we have sometimes put an extra spa out on the lawn to accommodate a large group. (With mats laid around the perimeter of the spa to try to keep grass from tracking in). But personally, I agree with your advice about gravel, etc.

Canucker, the Coyote is a junior Arctic with most of the same features. The Coyote has a unique "unibody" type construction. It has slightly less insulation and IMO is a better comparison to the spas usually sold at Costco than is the Arctic.

Whichever way you decide, you'll have a hot tub to enjoy.

[tojoe123]

You should try costco.ca.They sell arctic spas online.They might having a better price. You can use that price to negotiate with your local dealer if they can't match it or beat it go with costco. I bought a used 2005 Arctic Cub for $1000 about a month ago of kijiji just to see if the tub life style was for me. I will use it for a couple of years to see if i'am still loving it as much I do now. Then I will pull the trigger on the tub of my dreams.Good luck!

[Tom]

You should try costco.ca.They sell arctic spas online.

The Arctic Spas brand is not sold online.

[shovelhd]

canucker: There are several spa brands that use a base similar to Arctic. Marquis Spas and Jacuzzi Spas use a "pan" type bottom that is fully sealed in plastic. It's not a good idea to put any spa directly on grass because it may sink down. It's a better idea to put it on gravel, paving stones, or EZ Pads if you don't want to pour a concrete slab.

My Jacuzzi has drain holes in the ABS pan, so it is not technically "sealed", but for all intents and purposes it can be considered sealed to prevent critters getting inside, retain heat, etc.

[tojoe123]

You should try costco.ca.They sell arctic spas online.

The Arctic Spas brand is not sold online.

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/ProductSet.asp...p=C&topnav= ?

[Tom]

You should try costco.ca.They sell arctic spas online.

The Arctic Spas brand is not sold online.

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/ProductSet.asp...p=C&topnav= ?

Ah, thank you. I see what you mean. Our brands include Arctic, Coyote, and Apollo; it is only the Apollo line (and only selected models) that are sold through Costco. Apollo is manufactured by our US subsidiary but is sold into Canada as well. The Arctic Spas brand itself is not sold online... AFAIK.