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Spa Control By Home Automation System?


dotdog2

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I am in the Automation industry for commercial and residential systems. We Automate homes and businesses so the owners can control everything in their home from one or several touch panels throughout their homes or business. curtains, blinds, A/C, alarm, TV's, stereo's, Spa's, Pools, Sprinkler systems, surveillance systems, Garage door, lights, Effect lights, locks, Movie Theaters, Night clubs, Multi Dwelling, Etc. Our motto is, If you can dream it up, We can control it. You can also control all these systems and more from your Iphone (any PDA), or anywhere in the world on any computer.

The point is, I am wondering if there is an interface with the mother board on the Spa so it can communicate with the automation systems which are primarily RS-232 protocol for two way control? I will call the Automation system manufacturer to see but I figured someone on here may know. I know I am not the first to want to know this.

An example would where a client has an icon on their touch panel labeled HOT TUB which they can touch and the screen will switch to the current temperature of the tub, desired temp, pumps on/off, lights on/off and they can cycle through the functions via the touch panel. We use AMX for our automation control equipment.

Hot Springs has been useless about answering my questions and basically wont even talk to me about it. I was stunned. Does anyone know of a Hot Tub manufacturer who’s tubs can communicate with automation equipment or do have some kind of remote operation?

Thanks, Jim

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I am in the Automation industry for commercial and residential systems. We Automate homes and businesses so the owners can control everything in their home from one or several touch panels throughout their homes or business. curtains, blinds, A/C, alarm, TV's, stereo's, Spa's, Pools, Sprinkler systems, surveillance systems, Garage door, lights, Effect lights, locks, Movie Theaters, Night clubs, Multi Dwelling, Etc. Our motto is, If you can dream it up, We can control it. You can also control all these systems and more from your Iphone (any PDA), or anywhere in the world on any computer.

The point is, I am wondering if there is an interface with the mother board on the Spa so it can communicate with the automation systems which are primarily RS-232 protocol for two way control? I will call the Automation system manufacturer to see but I figured someone on here may know. I know I am not the first to want to know this.

An example would where a client has an icon on their touch panel labeled HOT TUB which they can touch and the screen will switch to the current temperature of the tub, desired temp, pumps on/off, lights on/off and they can cycle through the functions via the touch panel. We use AMX for our automation control equipment.

Hot Springs has been useless about answering my questions and basically wont even talk to me about it. I was stunned. Does anyone know of a Hot Tub manufacturer who’s tubs can communicate with automation equipment or do have some kind of remote operation?

Thanks, Jim

I do not know of any hot tub controls that implement RS-232. All the board IC's are TTL. Now, if you can produce automation equipment that is TTL, you may be able to do something. Some of the high end pool automation controls may have serial control though.

John

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this is cool and exactly what I've been looking for. I emailed my spa manufacture about something like this and his reply is why what would you use such a thing for ?

Well being in Saskatchewan where it gets up to minus 40 Celsius here in winter (yes that's Celsius not Fahrenheit) it would be nice to control temps and settings from inside the house instead of having to walk outside in the cold.

And yes you guys down south we do use our tubs when it gets that cold, that's the best time to use them. Right after snowmobiling or rolling in the snow hop in the tub.......

I would love to see this feature be available

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The only thing I have wondered about this is for checking temps and scheduling heating/cooling cycles. But after having one a few months I now can't imagine why someone would need such a thing? It takes several minutes to several hours to get the temp adjusted so unless you like planning things hours ahead there's no practical reason to be constantly adjusting the temp of the tub.

Not trying to insult you; I'm a geek myself who works on microcontroller systems. I could fairly easily design a new controller for my hot tub with these features but, as I said, after having one a few months I also wonder why on earth someone would want one. What if someone screws with the tub remotely and there's a failure? It seems like the risks (fairly substantial) outweigh any possible reward (of which, at present I don't see at all).

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this is cool and exactly what I've been looking for. I emailed my spa manufacture about something like this and his reply is why what would you use such a thing for ?

Well being in Saskatchewan where it gets up to minus 40 Celsius here in winter (yes that's Celsius not Fahrenheit) it would be nice to control temps and settings from inside the house instead of having to walk outside in the cold.

And yes you guys down south we do use our tubs when it gets that cold, that's the best time to use them. Right after snowmobiling or rolling in the snow hop in the tub.......

I would love to see this feature be available

At -40, Celsius and Fahrenheit are exactly the same temperature, it is the only place that the two systems match.

Dave

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Balboa has it with their "Spa Monitor" & Gecko has the In.watch. Balboa also has the Dolphin remote which can work with other A/V equipment. The only full interactive remote I have seen is from Coast Which runs with the Gecko packs. But they have more down time then up.

Nitrous Your dealer should have the In.watch for about $150http://www.geckoalliance.com/aeware/produit.php?nom=watch

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Balboa has it with their "Spa Monitor" & Gecko has the In.watch. Balboa also has the Dolphin remote which can work with other A/V equipment. The only full interactive remote I have seen is from Coast Which runs with the Gecko packs. But they have more down time then up.

Nitrous Your dealer should have the In.watch for about $150http://www.geckoalliance.com/aeware/produit.php?nom=watch

Yes but the in.watch does not allow for any adjustments remotely, only monitors

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I do not know of any hot tub controls that implement RS-232. All the board IC's are TTL. Now, if you can produce automation equipment that is TTL, you may be able to do something. Some of the high end pool automation controls may have serial control though.

John

What do IC and TTL stand for?

The only thing I have wondered about this is for checking temps and scheduling heating/cooling cycles. But after having one a few months I now can't imagine why someone would need such a thing? It takes several minutes to several hours to get the temp adjusted so unless you like planning things hours ahead there's no practical reason to be constantly adjusting the temp of the tub.

Not trying to insult you; I'm a geek myself who works on microcontroller systems. I could fairly easily design a new controller for my hot tub with these features but, as I said, after having one a few months I also wonder why on earth someone would want one. What if someone screws with the tub remotely and there's a failure? It seems like the risks (fairly substantial) outweigh any possible reward (of which, at present I don't see at all).

Not trying to insult you either but your argument is about as good as lets eliminate TV remote controls because someone could possibly change the channel on you with a remote and who needs it when you can just walk up to the TV. The public has spoken and they want their remotes, for everything. Many people spend millions to control things in their homes they could ordinarily not control every day. You may not want it or like it but many do. No disrespect. Failures of the type you are referring to are slim to none and normally have no effect on the item being controlled. And the risk you refer to really doesn’t exist. I would know about it if there were any frequency of such events.

However, the boards on these tubs are very simple. If you can reproduce one that could communicate via RS-232 that would be very cool and I may be interested in setting up some kind of business relationship. Please continue.

Balboa has it with their "Spa Monitor" & Gecko has the In.watch. Balboa also has the Dolphin remote which can work with other A/V equipment. The only full interactive remote I have seen is from Coast Which runs with the Gecko packs. But they have more down time then up.

Nitrous Your dealer should have the In.watch for about $150http://www.geckoalliance.com/aeware/produit.php?nom=watch

Thanks for the Info.

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TTL is just a logic level spec. It used to mean somethng but hasn't meant anything except a nominal 0 to 5V logic level swing since, like, 1979 when High Speed CMOS schottky devices came on the market. Anyway, the important feature is not what logic voltage swings are (that's what transistors are for) but whether or not the device even has a serial port that can be adapted to RS232 and whether it is programmed to use it.

Not trying to insult you either but your argument is about as good as lets eliminate TV remote controls because someone could possibly change the channel on you with a remote and who needs it when you can just walk up to the TV.

Except the TV doesn't have a meltdown if someone shuts off the wrong thing at the wrong time of day. Nor does it burst at the seams if someone shuts it completely down while the owner is away on vacation and it's 20 below outside.

No, my argument is nothing like "let's do away with TV remotes." TVs do not have catastrophic failure modes that can be caused by operator error. Not to belittle you but I've been a controller engineer since, like, 1982: I very well know the politics of design. There are certain "features" not granted to certain devices for more reasons than it's simply too hard, or no one has thought of it before. Actually, software is essentially free and it's pretty much the ONLY thing that differentiates modern products; if a device isn't given a feature nowdays it's probably not because it's not been thought of, it's most likely because it either violates someone else's intellectual property or because it's a liability issue.

It's like those cars that park themselves, or cruise control systems that are able to steer the car in the lane as well. It's not like it's impossible to do this - Audi, VW, and I believe either Honda or Toyota all offer some variants of this technology, right now... in Europe. It's not offered here because none of those folks want to deal with the inevitable negligence lawsuits whenever one of those cars gets in an accident.

I can think of a few applications that would be cool - like having a wifi connection so it can use skype to call you IF there is a catastrophic failure; having electronic Ph, solids and alkalinity monitoring that's constantly tracked on your desktop; maybe even having it automatically adjust chmicals so all the onwer has to do is fill up the reservoir every month or two. Of course, none of this works if a blown circuit breaker caused the catastrophic failure, or a downed power line has your block without juice in the dead of winter, or a sensor goes out causing it to dump a month's worth of chlorine in a week...

Hot tubs are essentially stable systems. Why muck up a good thing with useless technology?

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When we were buying our Caldera tub last year, the dealer threw in as part of the deal a remote that permits controlling every function of the controller...stop and start pumps, turn on/off lights, control the stereo, change temperatures, read the current temp, etc. It is also water proof so you can take it into the tub with you...a nice feature to change CD tracks while in the tub.

So the remotes do exist...just not an interface to a home automation system.

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  • 2 months later...

I've been thinking about automating my hot tub as well and was looking for a spa pack designed for home automation when I ran across this forum. I've pretty much decided to try and get a wiring diagram for my existing digital controller and piggy back a cat 5 cable from the spa pack I/O to the I/O and relay board on my HAI Omnipro controller. I figure if the low tech little digital touch pad on my spa can control the spa there shouldn't be any reason my automation controller can't do the same thing with the proper "if then else" and ranges programmed into the software. The only thing I'm not sure about is how to get the two interfaces to work together and "know" if the function is on or off... If anyone has any ideas i'd love to hear them

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  • 4 months later...

BUMP

Looking to do the same thing. I am only looking to control the temperature remotely through the internet to turn up the heat before we leave for the cottage.

All I need to do is be able to control the temperature setting. My thinking is to now tap into the topside wires and connect to and I/O Controller.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think the Schlage "Link" system can be easily modified to provide internet spa temp monitoring and control. But, you need an internet connection, and pay $12 a month fee for the "Link" service.

I have not actually done this, but here is the concept:

Home Depot (or Lowes) carries these items :

Buy the wireless Schlage/Trane thermostat>> http://link.schlage.com/Products/Pages/Thermostat.aspx

Buy a starter kit to get the wireless internet "Bridge" module (I don't see it sold seperatly)>>> http://link.schlage.com/Products/Pages/DeadboltStarterKit.aspx

Buy a 24VAC "doorbell" transformer (to power the thermostat)

1) Open the thermostat and "remote" the temp sensor...2 wires, waterproof the sensor and put it in the tub water. Locate the thermostat and the 24VAC transformer inside the spa cabinet. This is all "safe"... the 24VAC transformer isolates the thermostat circuits from the 220VAC lines.

2) Disconnect the spa water temp thermistor, and connect the spa controller end of those wires to the "Air Conditioning demand" terminals of the Schlage/Trane thermostat, with a simple 2 resistor network (based on the resistance of the thermistor temp sensor actually used in the spa) to connect to the spa controller. One Resistor is a large ohm value, hooked across the spa controller temp sensor wires, which simulates a cold water temperature, which causes the heater to turn ON. (You need this so the controller does not flag an "Open Circuit Temp Sensor" fault). The Trane thermostat relay contacts connects the 2nd, lower Ohmic value resistor, across the first resistor, which makes the spa controller think the water is too hot, which turns the heater OFF. The second resistor must not be too low a value, otherwise the spa controller will flag a "Spa Overheat" fault.

3) Set the mode of the thermostat to "Air Conditioning"

4) Now the heater will be controlled by the internet-remote-controlled Trane thermostat, and you can remotely monitor the actual spa water temperature.

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