Wiring A Jacuzzi J-480 (240 Volt / 60 Amp)

[n1oty]

For the record, I do not believe that any electrical code will allow wiring to have a lower ampacity rating than the circuit breaker. You will need to quote the exact code section if you want to make that argument.

This tells us nothing as there is an asterisk beside that table and it refers the reader to two rules which you have not cited, so we don't know the context of this table in Canadian code, nor do I care to spend the money to purchase the Canadian code. My US and Mass code purchases are expensive enough, thank you. Is this table even applicable to Canadian hot tubs? Or is it only applicable to industrial motors?

Listen, a number of hot tub pro's have rendered opinions here. I think just about all of us have strongly suggested that you not skimp. If you want to skimp, go right ahead. I doubt you'll convince any of us that this would be prudent, even if the Canadian code allows it. My personal opinion is that anyone who protects a conductor with a breaker having a higher rating is asking for trouble.

Furthermore, you have still not addressed your de-rating factors. You are starting with a 55 amp conductor. If it de-rates to something like 45 amps in your installation, you end up being below what this table supposedly authorizes.

John

[n1oty]

I just found this in a 2009 CEC code update concerning rule 14-104:

(Note: Rule 14-104 requires that the rating of the overcurrent device not exceed the allowable ampacity of the conductors):

2009 CEC Essentials - Issue 1, Rev. 0

If this is correct, it proves my point. I didn't even look up the other rule yet.

John

[quantumchromodynamics]

The table you show refers to Rule 14-104. This rule, in part, states: “The rating or setting of overcurrent devices shall not exceed the allowable ampacity of the conductors that they protect"

The table is a list of allowable, but conditional, deviations from the rule.

One of the conditions is that the installation meets the 125% rule, which is that the ampacity rating of the conductor must be at least 125 % of the continuous load. As you have given the continuous load as 45 amps, the ampacity rating of the conductor must be at least 56.25 amps. The conductor that you installed is rated at 55 amps. Therefore, you do not meet this critical condition to allow the deviation, and the table is not applicable.

I don't understand why they are going to permit the ampacity of the conductor to be lower than the overcurrent device, even conditionally. The overcurrent device is supposed to protect the equipment and wiring from being overloaded with current.

Regardless of the rule, I would not install wiring that had a lower ampacity than the overcurrent device. I would also not have conductors that had an ampacity less than 125% of continuous load. While the U.S electrical code and the Canadian electrical code may differ somewhat, the exact same laws of physics apply everywhere.

Also, note these rules:

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2.2.1 Rule 2-004: Permits

A permit is required prior to undertaking an electrical installation. The purpose of the permit is to insure that all electrical installations are installed by qualified persons. The purpose of this is to insure that someone qualified and experienced in electrical installations will be responsible for the installation. While the method varies from Province to Province, the rules in place are intended to provide assurance to the system owner of a quality and safe installation. In Alberta, only a qualified Journeyman Electrician is allowed to apply for an electrical permit. In BC, only an Electrical Contractor is allowed to apply for a permit. To be an Electrical Contractor in BC

the firm must have a journeyman electrician on staff. In most jurisdictions, there is an exception that allows a homeowner to apply for a permit to undertake electrical work in their own home only. The homeowner must be qualified to do electrical work, but one would expect that a homeowner would not put themselves in danger.

2.2.2 Rule 2-006: Application for Inspection

A permit allows the installation of electrical equipment to proceed. At various milestones during the installation, an inspection is required. Upon final inspection and approval by the inspector, a permit to connect to the electrical supply is issued. If the installation is not satisfactory, no connection permit will be issued.

_____________________________________________

If your installation passes inspection and receives a permit, then fine.

[Enriquemessi]

On 8/17/2009 at 8:09 PM, otis_skywalker said:

yes, that is right... no neutral to the spa.

Hi, I’m replacing my old 50 amp huttub, but my new one is asking for 60amp breaker, so do I disconnect and not worry about the neutral white wire (new 60amp breaker doesn’t have a connection) ?

[cranbiz]

23 hours ago, Enriquemessi said:

Hi, I’m replacing my old 50 amp huttub, but my new one is asking for 60amp breaker, so do I disconnect and not worry about the neutral white wire (new 60amp breaker doesn’t have a connection) ?

Please start a new thread. 

Post up a wiring diagram of the new tub. Most have that in the owners manual and most manufacturers will have the owners manual online.

My guess is that you will need the neutral wire. Your new breaker is probably not a GFCI breaker. That's fine to the Spa Disconnect. The neutral will come over from the neutral bus bar and not from the breaker. At the Spa Disconnect, you will have your 60A GFCI. If you don't have a breaker at the Spa Disconnect, then you have the wrong breaker for your main panel.