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Aquapure Replacement


MarkB

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I've been going round and round on this and figured I'd go to the experts here on the forum:

I have an old aquapure...the square design, black unions that are part of the pipeing, not the cell. Its a 2-port cell. I'm getting error codes that say the cell is bad. In looking at replacements, I see that Jandy no longer makes a 2-port but has a 3-port. Also told that the new one is a little longer than the old one and minor replumbing will be needed. What I'm trying to find out is if the threads on the new one will fit the threads on the old unions. Due to the configuration, removing one of the unions will be a problem and will involve extensive replumbing and moving a 3-way automated valve.

I'm looking at getting the R0475400. I've been told by different folks 2 different stories. On pool shop told me that Jandy told them the threads on the new cell will fit the black unions, as long as its one of the old square cells (which mine is!). I would just have to replumb the upstream side of the installation and install one of the new unions.

Another shop said that Jandy told them that the threads aren't compatible.

Anyone have any idea which one is correct? I'd hate to order this part and then not have the right thing. Thanks in advance for all of your help.

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I've been going round and round on this and figured I'd go to the experts here on the forum:

I have an old aquapure...the square design, black unions that are part of the pipeing, not the cell. Its a 2-port cell. I'm getting error codes that say the cell is bad. In looking at replacements, I see that Jandy no longer makes a 2-port but has a 3-port. Also told that the new one is a little longer than the old one and minor replumbing will be needed. What I'm trying to find out is if the threads on the new one will fit the threads on the old unions. Due to the configuration, removing one of the unions will be a problem and will involve extensive replumbing and moving a 3-way automated valve.

I'm looking at getting the R0475400. I've been told by different folks 2 different stories. On pool shop told me that Jandy told them the threads on the new cell will fit the black unions, as long as its one of the old square cells (which mine is!). I would just have to replumb the upstream side of the installation and install one of the new unions.

Another shop said that Jandy told them that the threads aren't compatible.

Anyone have any idea which one is correct? I'd hate to order this part and then not have the right thing. Thanks in advance for all of your help.

The threads are not the same, but it can be done. I recently ran into the same problem were there was no room to replace the unions. Thread them on by hand as tight as you can. See if they leak, if they do tighten little by little with a pair of pliers until no leaks. It is not the correct fix I know, but it saves alot of cost in replumbing

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The threads are not the same, but it can be done. I recently ran into the same problem were there was no room to replace the unions. Thread them on by hand as tight as you can. See if they leak, if they do tighten little by little with a pair of pliers until no leaks. It is not the correct fix I know, but it saves alot of cost in replumbing

What happens when I have to take the cell off to clean it? Won't overworking these threads over time cause failure?

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More information: I have been told by someone who I trust that there is a cell with 3 ports that fits in the same unions and plumbing as the old square one. It is much more expensive than the new ones and it requires the old threaded flow sensor. That sensor, if it needs replacement later, is $200 and is different from the new type of slotted sensors. Getting the entire new kit, cell, unions, sensor, DC cord, runs between $500 and $600. Getting the replacement that fits the old unions is $700 just for the cell, no unions, cords or sensors. But the replumbing is going to be a pain.

One other idea to test: I have a lot of room upstream of the cell so I'm thinking I'll buy the old "blank" spool piece that fits where the old square cell goes and then plumb in the new cell upstream of this. Gives me two extra unions that serve no purpose but spaces out okay. Alternative would be to cut that spool piece and use the threads on the downstream side to fit in existing union, then attach new union to the other end, then the new cell. Question: does anyone know anything about the OD and ID of the spool/blank? If I cut it, will I have any trouble attaching the new union to this? If its just a piece of 2 inch PVC with threads, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

Don't know who I hate more: Jandy for changing the threads and dimensions or my original pool builder for putting this cell in so close to the valve!

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Don't know who I hate more: Jandy for changing the threads and dimensions or my original pool builder for putting this cell in so close to the valve!

Jandy is constantly making model changes, I think this is how some engineers create enough work to stay on. I think you have to divide your hate evenly...

Before you throw away your old cell, check for scaling between the outside plates and the cell wall. People (even "pool pros") often clean the cell but since it is hard to see between the outside plate and the wall fail to see that the scale has not been removed there. It often requires an overnight soaking in diluted acid to remove it. If you are getting error codes 120/121 check this. Often it solves the problem.

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Do Not soak your cell in acid solution over night! This will damage the cell. Never more than 1/2 hour. (taken from the Jandy operation manual).

Think about this a moment. He is getting ready to throw away his cell. What "damage" can he do by soaking it overnight?

And if you have a totally scale-plugged cell just how do you propose to clean it? It happens all the time, sure it is best to clean it before it reaches this condition, but often pool owners don't even know it is supposed to be cleaned. So if you have a plugged cell the alternatives are throw it out or soak it overnight. At this point what do you have to lose?

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Think about this a moment. He is getting ready to throw away his cell. What "damage" can he do by soaking it overnight?

And if you have a totally scale-plugged cell just how do you propose to clean it?

You don't. You as a tech do the resposible thing and replace the cell, then educate the customer on how to properly maintain a cell. A cell is a "consumable" remember? The customer had just consumed his cell

It happens all the time, sure it is best to clean it before it reaches this condition, but often pool owners don't even know it is supposed to be cleaned. So if you have a plugged cell the alternatives are throw it out or soak it overnight. At this point what do you have to lose?

How much do you charge for a service call? Thats what he stands to lose.

There is nothing to think about here. It's unsafe, and It is of little or no use to a customer. You posted on another thread about knucklehead moves. I'm surprised this idea has come from you. How much use have you gotten from doing this? one week? Two? A month? Does it work every time? Be honest.

You are just postponing the inevitable anyway. Chances are, the cell is dead already. It wont save the customer any money. You'll be back out there eventually to install a new cell, plus a service call, plus the service call prior when you told him to soak overnight. So, two service calls compared to one? That's a no brainier. Cells are expensive enough. I'll buy a cell now and not risk having open acid on my property over night. Customers in my area aren't interested in Home brew remedies that may or may not work. They just want it to work as soon as possible.

When you are a factory warranty station, you can't do things like this, regardless if it's warranty or not. It's a quality of workmanship thing. You wouldn't silicone an mip on the inlet to a pump to fix an air leak when the right thing to do is re plumb it would you?

Also, do you realize if anything happens over night with the acid, You are liable for it?

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I agree with Pool Clown. Don't hack stuff and have acid sitting around in the open overnight. If it's that far gone, buy a new cell and get it over with. It's like trying to charge a dead cell car battery and bringing it back from the dead.

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Think about this a moment. He is getting ready to throw away his cell. What "damage" can he do by soaking it overnight?

And if you have a totally scale-plugged cell just how do you propose to clean it?

You don't. You as a tech do the resposible thing and replace the cell, then educate the customer on how to properly maintain a cell. A cell is a "consumable" remember? The customer had just consumed his cell

"Consumable" was referring to the typical design life of 10,000 hours, or as one mfr says, "approx 5 years on an average pool." I just don't meet people who are ready to fork out hundreds of dollars on a new cell just because it is scaled.

It happens all the time, sure it is best to clean it before it reaches this condition, but often pool owners don't even know it is supposed to be cleaned. So if you have a plugged cell the alternatives are throw it out or soak it overnight. At this point what do you have to lose?

How much do you charge for a service call? Thats what he stands to lose. Svc call is cheaper than a cell...

First, the person who posted the original question was clearly a do-it-yourselfer. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this person cleans his own cell. I also assumed, perhaps incorrectly, this person knew how to properly handle acid and if he could properly handle acid for half an hour he could do so for a longer period (thus, no service call). And if I am doing an extended cleaning on a customer cell it is in my shop not at the property, so no acid is left out as you assumed. (And yes I have efficient low cost ways of handling this.)

There is nothing to think about here. It's unsafe, and It is of little or no use to a customer. You posted on another thread about knucklehead moves. I'm surprised this idea has come from you. How much use have you gotten from doing this? one week? Two? A month? Does it work every time? Be honest.

It is not unsafe, no more unsafe than a normal cleaning. Does anything work every time? I have found many situations where an incompletely cleaned cell was restored to normal service with a more thorough cleaning. And if the cell is under warranty the mfr is not inclined to replace a cell that is scaled and not cleaned, so it has to be cleaned to determine if the problem is the cell or the scale.

You are just postponing the inevitable anyway. Chances are, the cell is dead already. Not necessarily. It wont save the customer any money. It often does. You'll be back out there eventually to install a new cell, plus a service call, plus the service call prior when you told him to soak overnight. So, two service calls compared to one? To many assumptions here. That's a no brainier. Cells are expensive enough. I'll buy a cell now and not risk having open acid on my property over night. Customers in my area aren't interested in Home brew remedies that may or may not work. <sigh> They just want it to work as soon as possible. Yes, but at NO COST to them, esp for a new cell. After all it was often sold to them as a cure-all requiring no mantenance.

When you are a factory warranty station, you can't do things like this, regardless if it's warranty or not. It's a quality of workmanship thing. You wouldn't silicone an mip on the inlet to a pump to fix an air leak when the right thing to do is re plumb it would you? Very bad analogy.

Also, do you realize if anything happens over night with the acid, You are liable for it? Which is why you use proper precautions, see above.

The original question involved an AquaPure cell and I stand by my original suggestion. Some other cell designs don't have the problem I was addressing. The Clormatic/AquaPure cells often do, just be sure the space between the outside plates and the cell walls are completely cleaned.

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I agree with Pool Clown. Don't hack stuff and have acid sitting around in the open overnight. If it's that far gone, buy a new cell and get it over with. It's like trying to charge a dead cell car battery and bringing it back from the dead.

Again, too many assumptions and a bad analogy.

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Think about this a moment. He is getting ready to throw away his cell. What "damage" can he do by soaking it overnight?

And if you have a totally scale-plugged cell just how do you propose to clean it?

You don't. You as a tech do the responsible thing and replace the cell, then educate the customer on how to properly maintain a cell. A cell is a "consumable" remember? The customer had just consumed his cell

"Consumable" was referring to the typical design life of 10,000 hours, or as one mfr says, "approx 5 years on an average pool."

No, consumable I'm referring to means used up, done, no longer useable!

I just don't meet people who are ready to fork out hundreds of dollars on a new cell just because it is scaled.

But your willing to bill them for multiple trips to try this hair brained, Yes, hair brained idea that may or may not work.

Svc call is cheaper than a cell...

Not when you have to go back and install a new cell + service call, because were not doing this for free right?

First, the person who posted the original question was clearly a do-it-yourselfer.

With all due respect to MarkB, I didn't read anything that would suggest that he was "clearly a DIYer".

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this person cleans his own cell. I also assumed, perhaps incorrectly, this person knew how to properly handle acid and if he could properly handle acid for half an hour he could do so for a longer period (thus, no service call).

What is he paying you for, if he has to handle the acid and the cleaning?

And if I am doing an extended cleaning on a customer cell it is in my shop not at the property, so no acid is left out as you assumed. (And yes I have efficient low cost ways of handling this.)[/color]

So let me get this right, you have a way of covering the acid up at your shop? didn't you say that should not be done? Something about being a terrorist and going to jail? When I say acid left out, i mean uncovered, open to atmosphere.

So its' another trip to the customers place the next morning = service call. So now I'm not sure what you mean. First you say customer can handle acid himself,(if for a half hour, then for 12 hours) then you say you'll take it with you to your shop. Which is it?

There is nothing to think about here. It's unsafe, and It is of little or no use to a customer. You posted on another thread about knucklehead moves. I'm surprised this idea has come from you. How much use have you gotten from doing this? one week? Two? A month? Does it work every time? Be honest.

"It is not unsafe, no more unsafe than a normal cleaning."

How do you know this? are you there for the whole 12 or so hours that you are suggesting, watching it?

When it comes to chems, especially acid, you should NEVER have that sort of attitude. Always respect the chems. Open Acid for a half hour is NOT the same as for 12 hours, especially if you're going to walk away from it for hours/ overnight!

Does anything work every time? I have found many situations where an incompletely cleaned cell was restored to normal service with a more thorough cleaning.

I'll pose the question again. For how long?

And if the cell is under warranty the mfr is not inclined to replace a cell that is scaled and not cleaned, so it has to be cleaned to determine if the problem is the cell or the scale.[/color]

So you clean the cell so its not scaled, then warranty it? sigh...

You are just postponing the inevitable anyway. Chances are, the cell is dead already. Not necessarily. It wont save the customer any money. It often does. You'll be back out there eventually to install a new cell, plus a service call, plus the service call prior when you told him to soak overnight. So, two service calls compared to one?

To many assumptions here.

I don't think so... if you're thinking from a business standpoint. You have to take all this into account when it comes time to figure out the bill.

That's a no brainier. Cells are expensive enough. I'll buy a cell now and not risk having open acid on my property over night. Customers in my area aren't interested in Home brew remedies that may or may not work. <sigh> They just want it to work as soon as possible.

Yes, but at NO COST to them, esp for a new cell.

You don't charge for service calls??

When you are a factory warranty station, you can't do things like this, regardless if it's warranty or not. It's a quality of workmanship thing. You wouldn't silicone an mip on the inlet to a pump to fix an air leak when the right thing to do is re plumb it would you?

Very bad analogy.

I figured you wouldn't get it

Also, do you realize if anything happens over night with the acid, You are liable for it? Which is why you use proper precautions, see above.

Hmm, didn't see anything about precautions above, only that you take it to your shop...Thats you're precaution?

The original question involved an AquaPure cell That had nothing to do with a scaled cell but a bad cell code. and I stand by my original suggestion.

Some other cell designs don't have the problem I was addressing. The Clormatic/AquaPure cells often do, just be sure the space between the outside plates and the cell walls are completely cleaned.

Maybe you don't see many cells, I see it on several cell manufactures. Some times cleaning works, but all to often the customer has to buy a cell, It's not a very popular choice, but you can't help the fact that the unit was sold to them by some other company, that did not educate them on maintenance. Hopefully YOU will be the repair man now, and they are in better hands.

Who knows, maybe your "trick" works. The main point I was trying express in this whole exchange is that anytime you are going to leave an ongoing chemical reaction alone, It leaves YOU the tech on the hook for ANYTHING that may occur. And rather than try to bring an "old" cell back to life after this kind of maintenance shortcoming, It may be cheaper in the long run to just sell the customer a new cell and be done with it.

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  • 1 month later...
Think about this a moment. He is getting ready to throw away his cell. What "damage" can he do by soaking it overnight?

And if you have a totally scale-plugged cell just how do you propose to clean it?

You don't. You as a tech do the responsible thing and replace the cell, then educate the customer on how to properly maintain a cell. A cell is a "consumable" remember? The customer had just consumed his cell

"Consumable" was referring to the typical design life of 10,000 hours, or as one mfr says, "approx 5 years on an average pool."

No, consumable I'm referring to means used up, done, no longer useable!

I just don't meet people who are ready to fork out hundreds of dollars on a new cell just because it is scaled.

But your willing to bill them for multiple trips to try this hair brained, Yes, hair brained idea that may or may not work.

Svc call is cheaper than a cell...

Not when you have to go back and install a new cell + service call, because were not doing this for free right?

First, the person who posted the original question was clearly a do-it-yourselfer.

With all due respect to MarkB, I didn't read anything that would suggest that he was "clearly a DIYer".

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this person cleans his own cell. I also assumed, perhaps incorrectly, this person knew how to properly handle acid and if he could properly handle acid for half an hour he could do so for a longer period (thus, no service call).

What is he paying you for, if he has to handle the acid and the cleaning?

And if I am doing an extended cleaning on a customer cell it is in my shop not at the property, so no acid is left out as you assumed. (And yes I have efficient low cost ways of handling this.)[/color]

So let me get this right, you have a way of covering the acid up at your shop? didn't you say that should not be done? Something about being a terrorist and going to jail? When I say acid left out, i mean uncovered, open to atmosphere.

So its' another trip to the customers place the next morning = service call. So now I'm not sure what you mean. First you say customer can handle acid himself,(if for a half hour, then for 12 hours) then you say you'll take it with you to your shop. Which is it?

There is nothing to think about here. It's unsafe, and It is of little or no use to a customer. You posted on another thread about knucklehead moves. I'm surprised this idea has come from you. How much use have you gotten from doing this? one week? Two? A month? Does it work every time? Be honest.

"It is not unsafe, no more unsafe than a normal cleaning."

How do you know this? are you there for the whole 12 or so hours that you are suggesting, watching it?

When it comes to chems, especially acid, you should NEVER have that sort of attitude. Always respect the chems. Open Acid for a half hour is NOT the same as for 12 hours, especially if you're going to walk away from it for hours/ overnight!

Does anything work every time? I have found many situations where an incompletely cleaned cell was restored to normal service with a more thorough cleaning.

I'll pose the question again. For how long?

And if the cell is under warranty the mfr is not inclined to replace a cell that is scaled and not cleaned, so it has to be cleaned to determine if the problem is the cell or the scale.[/color]

So you clean the cell so its not scaled, then warranty it? sigh...

You are just postponing the inevitable anyway. Chances are, the cell is dead already. Not necessarily. It wont save the customer any money. It often does. You'll be back out there eventually to install a new cell, plus a service call, plus the service call prior when you told him to soak overnight. So, two service calls compared to one?

To many assumptions here.

I don't think so... if you're thinking from a business standpoint. You have to take all this into account when it comes time to figure out the bill.

That's a no brainier. Cells are expensive enough. I'll buy a cell now and not risk having open acid on my property over night. Customers in my area aren't interested in Home brew remedies that may or may not work. <sigh> They just want it to work as soon as possible.

Yes, but at NO COST to them, esp for a new cell.

You don't charge for service calls??

When you are a factory warranty station, you can't do things like this, regardless if it's warranty or not. It's a quality of workmanship thing. You wouldn't silicone an mip on the inlet to a pump to fix an air leak when the right thing to do is re plumb it would you?

Very bad analogy.

I figured you wouldn't get it

Also, do you realize if anything happens over night with the acid, You are liable for it? Which is why you use proper precautions, see above.

Hmm, didn't see anything about precautions above, only that you take it to your shop...Thats you're precaution?

The original question involved an AquaPure cell That had nothing to do with a scaled cell but a bad cell code. and I stand by my original suggestion.

Some other cell designs don't have the problem I was addressing. The Clormatic/AquaPure cells often do, just be sure the space between the outside plates and the cell walls are completely cleaned.

Maybe you don't see many cells, I see it on several cell manufactures. Some times cleaning works, but all to often the customer has to buy a cell, It's not a very popular choice, but you can't help the fact that the unit was sold to them by some other company, that did not educate them on maintenance. Hopefully YOU will be the repair man now, and they are in better hands.

Who knows, maybe your "trick" works. The main point I was trying express in this whole exchange is that anytime you are going to leave an ongoing chemical reaction alone, It leaves YOU the tech on the hook for ANYTHING that may occur. And rather than try to bring an "old" cell back to life after this kind of maintenance shortcoming, It may be cheaper in the long run to just sell the customer a new cell and be done with it.

Hi Poolclown, forgive me for addressing you directly, but you obviously look like you know your way around pools. To get straight to the point, I have an Aquapure 1400 with a 121 code, and it only acts up after 3 hours of running time. I assume that's how long it takes to start cell reversing. I have cleaned the cell 3 times in the last 3 days, and right now the acid isn't causing any more bubbling inside the cell, so I think it's clean enough. I don't see anything wrong with my cable.

A little background... my cell has been working fine for 3 years since new, and about 2 weeks ago I ran a 'boost' on my Aquapure, and went to sleep, not knowing that my plumbing got so clogged with leaves (I have lots of huge trees all around my pool) that it kept my pump dry for several hours while running at night. As stupid and irresponsible as this sounds, I'm dumbfounded as to how it got so clogged and why the pump didn't whine to alert me. I digress... so when I found my pump in the morning, running hot and dry, I hit the 'service' button and cut off the pump. After a while I finally got the pump flowing again, and while I saved the pump, I think I killed my cell.

Based on what I've said (running the aquapure on boost with no water for hours) is that sufficient reason to say that's what is causing my problem, and that I need to replace my cell? If not, can you please help me get started on a troubleshooting path?

Thanks in advance,

Michael in SE Texas

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The unit has a sensor that tells whether or not there is water flow, and should have turned the unit off. Having said that, you could also have a sensor issue, that did not tell the unit of no flow, and then you would have had trouble. Three years is a bit on the short side, but not surprising. What percent do you normally run the unit with? Length of time, (per day) and percentage of output, determine how long your cell lasts, Theoretically.

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The unit has a sensor that tells whether or not there is water flow, and should have turned the unit off. Having said that, you could also have a sensor issue, that did not tell the unit of no flow, and then you would have had trouble. Three years is a bit on the short side, but not surprising. What percent do you normally run the unit with? Length of time, (per day) and percentage of output, determine how long your cell lasts, Theoretically.

I usually run it at 70%, and I boost it once a month, although this summer for the first time, I went about 3 months without boosting it. I run my pump between 7-9 hours a day, 7 days a week, but a lot less in the winter. I'm guessing that this is a little on the high side?

Thanks..

Michael

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Open the box and you will see a circuit board like this...

<img src="http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww52/PoolClown/AP1400Backboard.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

While the unit is on (about 4 min to boot completely) and not in reversing, check the cell voltage at the points shown on the board (right side).

A trick to try to see if cell is working:

Wait until there is a trace of Chlorine left in the pool. If you have a test kit that can tell you exactly how much Cl your pool has, then you don't need to let the Cl drop off so much.

Loosen the union down stream of the cell, and fill your test vile with the water leaking out, and test for Cl.

If the cell is working, you should get a higher reading of Cl than in the pool.

Note: unit must be on and appear to be generating.

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  • 9 months later...

Pool Clown, I tested my backboard today and got only 12.98 volts at the cell voltage points. It started throwing a 120 and 121 code again. The first time I think it was the cell being dirty. Also, the only other test points off were between 4-5 it read about 60-70mvDC. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

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The cell is about 5 yrs. old. When I tested the cell voltage points at the cell and board , it was right when the cell powered up (before service light came on)and it was the same 13 volts at the cell and board. Didn't matter if the cell was plugged in or not.

Thanks, I know the cell is at that critical replacement age. I'm at a point where I'm trying to decide if I neeed to throw money at this 1400 or start over with a new unit. All the components really add up. So far I only have a flow sensor into this 5 yr. old system.

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As you probably know, the new cells are different. Replacing the old cell will involve some repblumbing. If you choose to get another cell, get one with the sensor included. The new cells are available with or without a sensor. You get a plug where the sensor goes, that gets removed when you use a sensor there.

I was looking at the prices for these and noticed something strange. If you get the cell without a sensor included the price is more than the cell with the sensor included. Make sure to look for both so you can see the price difference, and decide for yourself. I could have very well gotten a typo error with my price list from Jandy.

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I'm trying to figure out why my test points for cell voltage is only 1/2 the voltage that it's suppose to be. Only about 12 volts at board and DC cord plug. I do know about the new cells. Just don't want to buy one, then find out it needs a back board or something else. I have noticed a few people getting really different readings at test point 4-5 on the board also. Mine was 60 or 70 instead of 120.

If the voltage coming off the board to the cell isn't what it should be, is the board bad?

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It almost sounds like your transformer is not putting out the correct voltage(s). The 1-8 test points are test points for the transformer. Verify that your input voltage is what it needs to be for your particular input, 110 or 220.

I tested input voltage was 220. At the 1-8 test point it was 75-78 VAC. My test of cell voltage that I did before was wrong- it's not 13V it actually tests 36 volts DC. Suppose to be 22-28 volts.

My couple other readings of the test points on the front and back boards were off-

Front board points H-K was 60 mVDC not 120.

Back board points 4-5 was 60 mVDC not 120.

Thanks

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I use an inductive amp meter on the wire to the cell and it has worked well for me in diagnosing.

A higher than normal voltage test reading indicates that the cell is not using the voltage (not working), thats why the voltage is higher. If you have an inductive meter, clamp on the green wire. You should be getting 6-8 amps when the cell is trying to work. If it slowly climbs to about 2.5 then drops back down, the cell isn't working.

Unfortunately, i have the luxury of having cells, back boards, etc. at my disposal to swap out (makes diagnosing faster).

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