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Biguanide


Nitro

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There has been some discussion about Biguanide (Soft Soak, Baquacil etc) lately, so I thought I'd post some important info. Anyone considering this method of sanitation needs to read this.

Here is a post by Waterbear (the expert on the subject) from this thread.

Biguanide works by causing bacterial cells to 'explode'. The 'baquagoo' is actually the remains of the cell wall and other stuff. Biguanide is not an oxidizer so these bacterial remains do not get 'burned off' like they do with chlorine and bromine. The peroxide oxidier that is used with biguanide does help burn them off to an extent but it is not as strong an oxidizing agent at the concentrations used. Higher concentrations are out of the question because they would cause bather discomfort, to say the least!

This goo gets collected in the filter where it is, hopefully, removed by frequent filter cleaning (MUCH more fequent than is needed with either chlorine or bromine.)

This is just the nature of the beast, so to speak, when using a biguanide system.

Also, since it is basically a biocide like the antibiotics our doctor's prescribe it has been found that bacteria do develop an immunity to it over time much like they can do with antibiotics, which is why both pink slime and white water mold, which are both bacterial, are a problem with biguanide system.

Biguanide is also used as a medical preservative and there has been a case in recent years where it was used in a popular contact lens solution that let to the outbreak of a corneal amoeba infection that led to blindness in several cases. There was a large recall of this well known contact lens solution just a few years back because of this. Once again this seems to be more evidence of it's limited effectiveness as a biocide. Also, it is not registered for use in Canada. What do they know that we don't?

Add to this the known fact that biguanide will destroy certain plastics that have been used in spas and are suspected of affecting pump seals makes this, IMHO, a sanitizer of last resort for those who CANNOT use either chlorine or bromine (rare but it does happen!)

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There has been some discussion about Biguanide (Soft Soak, Baquacil etc) lately, so I thought I'd post some important info. Anyone considering this method of sanitation needs to read this.

Here is a post by Waterbear (the expert on the subject) from this thread.

Biguanide works by causing bacterial cells to 'explode'. The 'baquagoo' is actually the remains of the cell wall and other stuff. Biguanide is not an oxidizer so these bacterial remains do not get 'burned off' like they do with chlorine and bromine. The peroxide oxidier that is used with biguanide does help burn them off to an extent but it is not as strong an oxidizing agent at the concentrations used. Higher concentrations are out of the question because they would cause bather discomfort, to say the least!

This goo gets collected in the filter where it is, hopefully, removed by frequent filter cleaning (MUCH more fequent than is needed with either chlorine or bromine.)

This is just the nature of the beast, so to speak, when using a biguanide system.

Also, since it is basically a biocide like the antibiotics our doctor's prescribe it has been found that bacteria do develop an immunity to it over time much like they can do with antibiotics, which is why both pink slime and white water mold, which are both bacterial, are a problem with biguanide system.

Biguanide is also used as a medical preservative and there has been a case in recent years where it was used in a popular contact lens solution that let to the outbreak of a corneal amoeba infection that led to blindness in several cases. There was a large recall of this well known contact lens solution just a few years back because of this. Once again this seems to be more evidence of it's limited effectiveness as a biocide. Also, it is not registered for use in Canada. What do they know that we don't?

Add to this the known fact that biguanide will destroy certain plastics that have been used in spas and are suspected of affecting pump seals makes this, IMHO, a sanitizer of last resort for those who CANNOT use either chlorine or bromine (rare but it does happen!)

Can you offer a few anecdotes about the downsides of Chlorine and Bromine? This comparison seems so much like the Republicans and Democrats. To hear one talk about the opposing party, you'd think they were referring to either devils or morons. To be even handed and present all of the facts in a balanced manner would be too confusing for the average listener, I suppose. Regarding the "goo," I had a bit three years ago when I started up my hot tub, was told by representatives that it would go away if the water was properly maintained, and IT DID GO AWAY.

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Can you offer a few anecdotes about the downsides of Chlorine and Bromine?

Ok, let's hear them.

I was actually hoping that you had some, and were holding back. LOL. Okay, how about the lady that burned herself from chlorine. Or the guy who breathed in Bromine and his lungs got sucked up by the filter. Ah, I made those up. I've just read lots of posts about smells, irritations, ugly smelly water, etc. But in truth, I respect the knowledge of both you and Waterbear, I'm just a happy BaquaSpa user (so far...three years and counting).

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I was actually hoping that you had some, and were holding back. LOL. Okay, how about the lady that burned herself from chlorine. Or the guy who breathed in Bromine and his lungs got sucked up by the filter. Ah, I made those up. I've just read lots of posts about smells, irritations, ugly smelly water, etc.

Be careful with that Hydrogen Peroxide you use to oxidize waste. It's nasty stuff at high concentration. ;)

But in truth, I respect the knowledge of both you and Waterbear, I'm just a happy BaquaSpa user (so far...three years and counting).

In truth I hope it works out for you. If so, maybe I'll try it. j/k :lol:

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I was actually hoping that you had some, and were holding back. LOL. Okay, how about the lady that burned herself from chlorine. Or the guy who breathed in Bromine and his lungs got sucked up by the filter. Ah, I made those up. I've just read lots of posts about smells, irritations, ugly smelly water, etc.

Be careful with that Hydrogen Peroxide you use to oxidize waste. It's nasty stuff at high concentration. ;)

But in truth, I respect the knowledge of both you and Waterbear, I'm just a happy BaquaSpa user (so far...three years and counting).

In truth I hope it works out for you. If so, maybe I'll try it. j/k :lol:

I would say that 7 out of 10 tubs that I fix with glue joint/ light lens/ leak problems are Biguinide tubs, while only about 1 out of 10 of my customers use Biguinide. What does that tell you about how it affects plastics? Also, I have had some major problems breathing while working on a few Baquacil tubs that were indoors once the jets were turned on.

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  • 1 month later...

Coming up on 4 years (in December) with my BaquaSpa-sanitized Arctic spa and still lovin' it. I went through a goo episode early on, treated it and never had the problem, again. Last spring I finally had an outbreak of white water mold and so I drained it in May and did a thorough washing (with chlorine) and then rinsed, rinsed and rinsed. Spa water is back to crystal clear as I write this.

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  • 11 years later...

Hi there.  I have a 2118g swim spa that is 6mos old.  We have had to drain it three times so far.  I have an issue with the “goo” that accumulated on my spa water line, which is extremely sticky, and the stickiness is also like a “slick” on the water.  We refilled it two weeks ago and the issue came back within a week.  The sticky slick settles on the skin making me sticky.  (If anyone knows how to easily get the sticky off of our body, you would be my new best friend!).  I added Enzyme and additional sanitizer, and the goo along the walls started to gum up.  I can get the gum off with a scraper, but how do we get rid of the sticky residue it leaves behind?  Even the floor of the spa is sticky (not as bad as the goo - but my feet stick to the bottom).  Had to get in the water today to try and get the gum off - and I got out sticky with a slight skin irritation.  I want to love my spa and I am using the Leisure Time FREE system (same manufactures of BaquaSpa. - no one sells Baqua here in Vegas).  We cannot enjoy it when we cannot sit in it.  The last time we drained it, the goo sticky was so bad, it took a day to scrape it off and wash the spa.  I need help and this seems to be the place to go - I need a biguanide expert! 

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