Heater Died, Looking For New Heater Recommendations

[mickey4paws]

We have an old Comfortzone natural gas heater (150,00 btu) from 1991 that has finally built the dust. The burner tray is all rusted out and I'm sure there are other problems. It just won't fire up. Got it to start a couple times, but it just went out after a short period of time. Anyway, looking to get a new heater and had a few questions:

What is a really good reliable brand? Or, are they all pretty much the same? Is a cupro nickel heat exchanger really better, or is it simply marketing? How does Raypak compare to Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm? Millivolt or electronic?

We use a solar cover at night to keep the heat in, and mostly use a heater during May and September when it's cooler here. We're in Michigan if it makes a difference in choosing a particular heater. We have a 20,000 gallon inground vinyl lined pool and also have a salt water chlorine generator.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Pool Clown]

I work with both the heaters you listed. Without bashing one company or the other, I have better luck (reliability) with the Raypak electronic heater. The cupro nickel is more forgiving to water imbalance but the heat transfer isn't quite as well as copper.

[mickey4paws]

I work with both the heaters you listed. Without bashing one company or the other, I have better luck (reliability) with the Raypak electronic heater. The cupro nickel is more forgiving to water imbalance but the heat transfer isn't quite as well as copper.

Thank you so much for the reply, I really appreciate it. Had a company that specializes in pool heaters come and take a look to give us an estimate for a new heater. They've serviced the old heater before and he said if they have a burner tray sitting around at their place it might be worth fixing and he'd get back to me to let me know. I think anything over a couple hundred dollars wouldn't be worth it. I was hoping you were going to say the Max-E-Therm was better. I really like the looks of it and it seems to be more user friendly, but I could be wrong.

Have you ever heard of a brand called Lochnivar, I think the model is EnergyRite?

[Pool Clown]

They are about the same as far as user friendly. I will say though, the Max E Therm is a forced air type and has a blower. The Raypak is virtually silent.

[mickey4paws]

They are about the same as far as user friendly. I will say though, the Max E Therm is a forced air type and has a blower. The Raypak is virtually silent.

Hmm...now that is an interesting point, especially since the heater is underneath the window of the room where we watch tv. Would it be louder than the pool pump do you think? If Raypak doesn't use forced air and blower, what does it use instead, and is it better, worse?

Thanks!

[Pool Clown]

I affectionately call the Max-E-Therm The vacuum cleaner. The Raypak is an atmospheric type heater. Works much like your fire place. As far as ability to heat your pool They are competitive. The sta-rite may heat a little quicker. But for the most part, they are pretty close. Be careful where you put the heater, I hope your'e not putting it right underneath a window. It's not code and also very dangerous (carbon monoxide).

[mickey4paws]

I affectionately call the Max-E-Therm The vacuum cleaner. The Raypak is an atmospheric type heater. Works much like your fire place. As far as ability to heat your pool They are competitive. The sta-rite may heat a little quicker. But for the most part, they are pretty close. Be careful where you put the heater, I hope your'e not putting it right underneath a window. It's not code and also very dangerous (carbon monoxide).

Hi Poolclown

Well not directly under window. it will be out 3 or 4 feet, whatever code is. We have to have a pad installed too. Right now our heater is just on the ground. I don't know why they didn't use a pad. We inherited the heater when we bought the house.

So the Max-E-Therm is really that loud? Is the noise only when it's producing heat?

[Pool Clown]

So the Max-E-Therm is really that loud? Is the noise only when it's producing heat?

Here is a demo.

http://s705.photobucket.com/albums/ww52/Po...ersounddemo.flv

Let me know if the link is fried.

[mickey4paws]

So the Max-E-Therm is really that loud? Is the noise only when it's producing heat?

Here is a demo.

http://s705.photobucket.com/albums/ww52/Po...ersounddemo.flv

Let me know if the link is fried.

Wow, that is REALLY loud! Thank you so much for the excellent video/audio of the Max-E-Therm. I think that is too loud for me, especially since it is somewhat near the window of the room where the television is.

Is the Pentair Mastertemp loud too? At this point, I've narrowed it down to the Mastertemp 200k btu natural gas electronic, the Raypak 206kbtu, or the Lochinvar 200k btu. I just wonder if the Lochinvar is worth the extra money?

I like that the Mastertemp has a composite case as opposed to the metal of the Raypak, but maybe it doesnt' really matter. I just want a reliable heater and one that is built well, and that hopefully too many spiders won't get into.

Even though our line can support a 250k btu, our meter would do better with 200k btu. We only use the heater in late May, early June and September.

Thanks again, your help is very much appreciated

[Pool Clown]

Wow, that is REALLY loud! Thank you so much for the excellent video/audio of the Max-E-Therm. I think that is too loud for me, especially since it is somewhat near the window of the room where the television is.

Consider this, are you going to be watching T.V. in the daytime when the hater will run?(other than the week ends). My video doesn't really do the heater justice. It may be a little quieter that the audio of the video. Keep in mind, I was right on top of the heater making the video. In the house or in the back yard by the pool, it is quieter.

Is the Pentair Mastertemp loud too? At this point, I've narrowed it down to the Mastertemp 200k btu natural gas electronic, the Raypak 206kbtu, or the Lochinvar 200k btu. I just wonder if the Lochinvar is worth the extra money?

The master temp is the same heater as the max-e-therm, just in a different shell

I like that the Mastertemp has a composite case as opposed to the metal of the Raypak, but maybe it doesnt' really matter. I just want a reliable heater and one that is built well, and that hopefully too many spiders won't get into.

Did you mean the max-e-therm? It has the composite. Master temp is a sheet metal enclo. (looks like a cube)

Even though our line can support a 250k btu, our meter would do better with 200k btu. We only use the heater in late May, early June and September.

I think you may be happiest with the Raypak.

Thanks again, your help is very much appreciated

[mickey4paws]

Wow, that is REALLY loud! Thank you so much for the excellent video/audio of the Max-E-Therm. I think that is too loud for me, especially since it is somewhat near the window of the room where the television is.

Consider this, are you going to be watching T.V. in the daytime when the hater will run?(other than the week ends). My video doesn't really do the heater justice. It may be a little quieter that the audio of the video. Keep in mind, I was right on top of the heater making the video. In the house or in the back yard by the pool, it is quieter.

I think tv watching would be mostly on the weekends. Yeah, your video made it seem super duper loud, like a plane taking off

Is the Pentair Mastertemp loud too? At this point, I've narrowed it down to the Mastertemp 200k btu natural gas electronic, the Raypak 206kbtu, or the Lochinvar 200k btu. I just wonder if the Lochinvar is worth the extra money?

The master temp is the same heater as the max-e-therm, just in a different shell

So just as loud I assume

I like that the Mastertemp has a composite case as opposed to the metal of the Raypak, but maybe it doesnt' really matter. I just want a reliable heater and one that is built well, and that hopefully too many spiders won't get into.

Did you mean the max-e-therm? It has the composite. Master temp is a sheet metal enclo. (looks like a cube)

I did mean the Mastertemp. I thought its case was composite too.

Even though our line can support a 250k btu, our meter would do better with 200k btu. We only use the heater in late May, early June and September.

I think you may be happiest with the Raypak.

I'm thinking you're right. I know the guy that came out here to look at our gas line said he likes the Raypak because of the stack on top as far as venting.

I do have one more question re the Raypak. Have you heard of any problems with the lcd display peeling or other problems? I read a couple of posts from people where they had that problem. Maybe it was an older Raypak? The other thing is Raypak only has a 1 year warranty, but I guess if something was going to go wrong, it would probably be in the first year.

Lastly, do you know if the Lochinvar has the blower too?

Thank you so much!

[Pool Clown]

Depending on your gas company, They may come out and up size your gas meter for little or no charge (It's an opportunity for them to sell you more gas), Then, you could get the correct size heater for your pool. It may cost more, But i think you will appreciate how fast it'll heat up with a bigger size. I don't know how your old heater did, but the bigger Raypak can give you up to 1 degree per hour in the pool.

[quantumchromodynamics]

I like the Pentair Mastertemp. It's quieter than the Sta-Rite shown in the video. I prefer a heater that has a forced air design. They are much more reliable in higher wind areas. Without forced air, the flames can be pushed backwards and burn up your heater. This is especially a problem when the heater is near a structure where air can hit the structure wall and be diverted downwards onto the heater. Get the cupro-nickel heat exchanger for corrosion resistance, especially since you have a salt-water pool.

[mickey4paws]

Depending on your gas company, They may come out and up size your gas meter for little or no charge (It's an opportunity for them to sell you more gas), Then, you could get the correct size heater for your pool. It may cost more, But i think you will appreciate how fast it'll heat up with a bigger size. I don't know how your old heater did, but the bigger Raypak can give you up to 1 degree per hour in the pool.

Unfortunately our gas company wants $500 to upgrade the meter. Our current old Comfortzone was doing a degree an hour, I think. Doesn't seem likely though because it's only 144k btu. Maybe it was only a half a degree? I got it going over the weekend and had the dial/thermostat in the middle position because I was afraid to turn it, and have the heater conk out again. Took a while to heat up.

Now not only is our heater need to be replaced, but now we're having problems with our Hayward S240 sand filter. The top half of the tank has hairline cracks around the dome and we're losing about 6 gallons of water a day. We put on a new dome o-ring but that didn't help. When we replaced the o-ring, I kept telling my husband to tighten it more. Well now it's so tight, we can't removed the dome to try to caulk or epoxy the cracks in the dome threads. So a couple of nights ago I took some epoxy putty called Aquamend and put that around the dome. Next morning turned on the filter, but it was still leaking, although not as bad. So last night I took some adhesive caulk and put some between the Aquamend and the dome and this morning the drips are much less. But it's still leaking enough. I called a couple of pool builders to see if maybe they had pulled a Hayward S240 from a job and had one lying around I could get the top half of the tank from. One guy said he might have one and he's supposed to get back to me.

Otherwise, it will be a new heater AND a new filter too

[mickey4paws]

I like the Pentair Mastertemp. It's quieter than the Sta-Rite shown in the video. I prefer a heater that has a forced air design. They are much more reliable in higher wind areas. Without forced air, the flames can be pushed backwards and burn up your heater. This is especially a problem when the heater is near a structure where air can hit the structure wall and be diverted downwards onto the heater. Get the cupro-nickel heat exchanger for corrosion resistance, especially since you have a salt-water pool.

Thanks so much for your reply. My question on the ones with blowers is what happens if the blower dies? Will the heater burn itself up or just shut down? Also, as far as sooting goes, which design, the forced air or the atmospheric, would be more likely to have this problem?

[mah48092]

I live in Michigan and installed a sta-rite 400 nickel-cupro heater earlier this year. It is nowhere near as loud as the one in the video. It is noisier than the 400,000 BTU maxi-therm that I used to have, but it is no louder than than my circulation pump and certainly quieter than my spa air injector. Some additional information, I did have a problem with restricted water flow due to too many bends in the PVC pipe which led to noise in the inlet pipe when the heater fired up. I called a service technician and he simply removed the thermostat from the unit and the noise disappeared. I was concerned about voiding my warrantee and he stated very clearly running the heater without the thermostat installed in the unit was fine. I have used the heater extensively this spring, remember I live in Michigan, and am very pleased with the performance. My water temperature rise across the heater is 8 degrees as opposed to 4 degrees with my old one. Hope this was useful.

[mickey4paws]

I live in Michigan and installed a sta-rite 400 nickel-cupro heater earlier this year. It is nowhere near as loud as the one in the video. It is noisier than the 400,000 BTU maxi-therm that I used to have, but it is no louder than than my circulation pump and certainly quieter than my spa air injector. Some additional information, I did have a problem with restricted water flow due to too many bends in the PVC pipe which led to noise in the inlet pipe when the heater fired up. I called a service technician and he simply removed the thermostat from the unit and the noise disappeared. I was concerned about voiding my warrantee and he stated very clearly running the heater without the thermostat installed in the unit was fine. I have used the heater extensively this spring, remember I live in Michigan, and am very pleased with the performance. My water temperature rise across the heater is 8 degrees as opposed to 4 degrees with my old one. Hope this was useful.

Mah48092, thanks so much for the reply. I live in Michigan too so it's good to hear that the Starite is working for you. Can I ask why you replaced your other Maxitherm and how old was it when you had to replace it? Odd that you can run the heater without a thermostat. I would think you'd have to have one.

[quantumchromodynamics]

If the blower goes out, the heater will shut down. Sooting is caused by incomplete combustion of the fuel. The heater flame should be a clean blue with no orange or red. Orange or red indicates incomplete combustion.

Anytime you have cracks in a pressurized piece of equipment, like the filter, it is best to replace it.

mah48092, it doesn't make any sense for your heater not to have a thermostat. How does it know when to turn on and off? It would be extremely irresponsible for a service technician to remove your thermostat.

[Pool Clown]

I live in Michigan and installed a sta-rite 400 nickel-cupro heater earlier this year. It is nowhere near as loud as the one in the video. It is noisier than the 400,000 BTU maxi-therm that I used to have, but it is no louder than than my circulation pump and certainly quieter than my spa air injector. Some additional information, I did have a problem with restricted water flow due to too many bends in the PVC pipe which led to noise in the inlet pipe when the heater fired up. I called a service technician and he simply removed the thermostat from the unit and the noise disappeared. I was concerned about voiding my warrantee and he stated very clearly running the heater without the thermostat installed in the unit was fine. I have used the heater extensively this spring, remember I live in Michigan, and am very pleased with the performance. My water temperature rise across the heater is 8 degrees as opposed to 4 degrees with my old one. Hope this was useful.

You know, you are right, I should do another video at about 20 feet or so farther away to show how quickly the sound decreases You don't hear it that loud at the pool, 20 feet away.

The thermostat the tech removed is a thermal bypass that regulates the amount of water that sees the heat exchanger. I don't know how things work in MI, But I agree with you. At the very least I would shoot an email off to Pentair and ask them if that is practice. When I get those calls I replace the thermostat not remove it. They do go bad, mostly from water chems.

An eight degree rise is nice in the pool, But in the spa, It can get out of hand extremely fast. Be careful about useing the spa with that configuration.

Say you like the spa at 103 deg. Today you're in it and 103 isnt getting it for you, you throttle up to 104. How hot will that water be coming out of the return? Yikes!

[mickey4paws]

I like the Pentair Mastertemp. It's quieter than the Sta-Rite shown in the video. I prefer a heater that has a forced air design. They are much more reliable in higher wind areas. Without forced air, the flames can be pushed backwards and burn up your heater. This is especially a problem when the heater is near a structure where air can hit the structure wall and be diverted downwards onto the heater. Get the cupro-nickel heat exchanger for corrosion resistance, especially since you have a salt-water pool.

Unfortunately, it looks like the Pentair 200k btu does not come with the cupro nickel option. We decided to stay with a 200k btu heater instead of upgrading our meter. For as much as we use a heater, I think the 200k btu should be good enough. So far the only heater I can find with 200k btu and cupro nickel exchanger is the Raypak.

[Pool Clown]

So far the only heater I can find with 200k btu and cupro nickel exchanger is the Raypak.

Excellent choice!

[mah48092]

If the blower goes out, the heater will shut down. Sooting is caused by incomplete combustion of the fuel. The heater flame should be a clean blue with no orange or red. Orange or red indicates incomplete combustion.

Anytime you have cracks in a pressurized piece of equipment, like the filter, it is best to replace it.

mah48092, it doesn't make any sense for your heater not to have a thermostat. How does it know when to turn on and off? It would be extremely irresponsible for a service technician to remove your thermostat.

The heater turns on and off just fine by comparing the inlet temperature to the setting I dial in. As far as I can tell the thermostat has no bearing on whether the burner shuts down or not. I have seen no issues with running without the stat for the past month of operation.

[mah48092]

I live in Michigan and installed a sta-rite 400 nickel-cupro heater earlier this year. It is nowhere near as loud as the one in the video. It is noisier than the 400,000 BTU maxi-therm that I used to have, but it is no louder than than my circulation pump and certainly quieter than my spa air injector. Some additional information, I did have a problem with restricted water flow due to too many bends in the PVC pipe which led to noise in the inlet pipe when the heater fired up. I called a service technician and he simply removed the thermostat from the unit and the noise disappeared. I was concerned about voiding my warrantee and he stated very clearly running the heater without the thermostat installed in the unit was fine. I have used the heater extensively this spring, remember I live in Michigan, and am very pleased with the performance. My water temperature rise across the heater is 8 degrees as opposed to 4 degrees with my old one. Hope this was useful.

Mah48092, thanks so much for the reply. I live in Michigan too so it's good to hear that the Starite is working for you. Can I ask why you replaced your other Maxitherm and how old was it when you had to replace it? Odd that you can run the heater without a thermostat. I would think you'd have to have one.

My maxitherm was ten years old and the burner efficiency was not very good. Also, every spring when I start it up I have to take the gas valve apart to clean it. Over the winter it seizes up - that started about 5 or 6 years ago. In my opinion it is in a poor location and the orientation leaves much to be desired.

[mickey4paws]

Thanks for the replies, PoolClown and Mah. I was so close to getting the Raypak but now have found a very good deal on a Lochnivar. The Lochinvar is 88% efficiency while the Raypak is 82%. I also heard Lochinvar is supposed to be an excellent heater. I have to make a choice before I go insane (and can stop bugging you guys). Help!

[Pool Clown]

I don't have much experience with those heaters so I'm out.

Good luck and enjoy!