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I was looking at getting a Dreammaker X400 or the Fantasy.

Does anyone have one of these and would you recommend them?

The 110 Volt Plug & play attracted me and this Spa and will fit nicely on my back patio.

They claim its one of the most energy efficient using no electrical heater element.

The Hot stick friction heater claims it will raise the water temp 1.7 degrees per hour,

I live in Arizona and it does not get very cold in the winter so im thinking this could

work ok in my climate.

The Sales rep claims Dreammaker is the Value priced leader in Spas and offers more bang for the buck. They advertise a lifetime warranty on their shells and thats in the written warranty.

They also claim a lifetime warranty on the dual Hot stick heater on their website but thats not stated in the writtten warranty and raised a red flag for me.

I emailed the Factory rep about this but didn't get a answer about the heater warranty claim.

Their basic warranty is only 1 year parts and 90 days labor although the dealer says they upgrade it to a full year of labor at no extra cost as a bonus.

Pretty weak warranty I feel but if parts are easy to obtain and its not hard to work on I would have no problem doing the repair work myself after the 1 year ran out.

I have been looking around on the internet for owner reviews but have not found many. The ones I did are several years old befor they redesigned their Spa's

Should I stay away from Dreammaker and look at a different brand?

I would go with a 220 volt spa but was concerened about high electricity costs to keep it running.

Any help or advise you experts can offer me would be greatly appreciated.

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I was looking at getting a Dreammaker X400 or the Fantasy.

Does anyone have one of these and would you recommend them?

The 110 Volt Plug & play attracted me and this Spa and will fit nicely on my back patio.

They claim its one of the most energy efficient using no electrical heater element.

The Hot stick friction heater claims it will raise the water temp 1.7 degrees per hour,

I live in Arizona and it does not get very cold in the winter so im thinking this could

work ok in my climate.

The Sales rep claims Dreammaker is the Value priced leader in Spas and offers more bang for the buck. They advertise a lifetime warranty on their shells and thats in the written warranty.

They also claim a lifetime warranty on the dual Hot stick heater on their website but thats not stated in the writtten warranty and raised a red flag for me.

I emailed the Factory rep about this but didn't get a answer about the heater warranty claim.

Their basic warranty is only 1 year parts and 90 days labor although the dealer says they upgrade it to a full year of labor at no extra cost as a bonus.

Pretty weak warranty I feel but if parts are easy to obtain and its not hard to work on I would have no problem doing the repair work myself after the 1 year ran out.

I have been looking around on the internet for owner reviews but have not found many. The ones I did are several years old befor they redesigned their Spa's

Should I stay away from Dreammaker and look at a different brand?

I would go with a 220 volt spa but was concerened about high electricity costs to keep it running.

Any help or advise you experts can offer me would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not going to comment on Dreammaker spas. But I will tell you that 110V or 220V will not make a substantial different in operating a tub. Matter of fact 220V is usualy less.

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The reason I believe the Dreammaker 110 Volt spa would use less electricity is because it does not use a electric heater element to heat the water like a 220 volt spa does. The Hot stick technology they claim uses water pressure and micro jets & vortex action to create friction with the water molecules. It could all be manufacture BS for all I know thats why I was hoping to find some users reviews on these tubs.

I know they are not going to be close in quality and features of a $8000 and up Spa but im not sure I would use

the Spa enough to justify that kind of cost or the cost of site prep and electrical wiring to support it. Less than $3000 for a 110v plug & play 10-13 Jet spa to see if we like and would use a Spa is what Im looking at. relaxation and some Med level of hydrotherpy would be what we are hoping for.

At the sametime if Dreamaker is really a POS without any real benefit I don't want to waste my time & money on it.

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The reason I believe the Dreammaker 110 Volt spa would use less electricity is because it does not use a electric heater element to heat the water like a 220 volt spa does. The Hot stick technology they claim uses water pressure and micro jets & vortex action to create friction with the water molecules. It could all be manufacture BS for all I know thats why I was hoping to find some users reviews on these tubs.

I know they are not going to be close in quality and features of a $8000 and up Spa but im not sure I would use

the Spa enough to justify that kind of cost or the cost of site prep and electrical wiring to support it. Less than $3000 for a 110v plug & play 10-13 Jet spa to see if we like and would use a Spa is what Im looking at. relaxation and some Med level of hydrotherpy would be what we are hoping for.

At the sametime if Dreamaker is really a POS without any real benefit I don't want to waste my time & money on it.

All spas create heat during operation from water friction. Some capture it better than others. What Dreammaker does it not magic...just very very slow heating.

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I was looking at getting a Dreammaker X400 or the Fantasy.

Does anyone have one of these and would you recommend them?

The 110 Volt Plug & play attracted me and this Spa and will fit nicely on my back patio.

They claim its one of the most energy efficient using no electrical heater element.

The Hot stick friction heater claims it will raise the water temp 1.7 degrees per hour,

I live in Arizona and it does not get very cold in the winter so im thinking this could

work ok in my climate.

The Sales rep claims Dreammaker is the Value priced leader in Spas and offers more bang for the buck. They advertise a lifetime warranty on their shells and thats in the written warranty.

They also claim a lifetime warranty on the dual Hot stick heater on their website but thats not stated in the writtten warranty and raised a red flag for me.

I emailed the Factory rep about this but didn't get a answer about the heater warranty claim.

Their basic warranty is only 1 year parts and 90 days labor although the dealer says they upgrade it to a full year of labor at no extra cost as a bonus.

Pretty weak warranty I feel but if parts are easy to obtain and its not hard to work on I would have no problem doing the repair work myself after the 1 year ran out.

I have been looking around on the internet for owner reviews but have not found many. The ones I did are several years old befor they redesigned their Spa's

Should I stay away from Dreammaker and look at a different brand?

I would go with a 220 volt spa but was concerened about high electricity costs to keep it running.

Any help or advise you experts can offer me would be greatly appreciated.

Dreammaker makes a good little hot tub. They stand behind the product. At first start up it does take a long time to heat the water because of having no heater. The nice thing about them is it is only 240 pounds. They started to use a better cover which is good. The roto made shell can be sanded to remove scratches.

They are built with standard spa plumbing parts. I never had one leak.

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A 220 model will actually use less power in the long run, in that the 110 volt model only uses the waste heat from the pump to heat the water - VERY SLOWLY, and requires the motor to be running and pumping water CONSTANTLY - this uses plenty of electricity. Having a 110 volt heater element to do the job is MUCH quicker and more efficient and will ALSO WORK IN COLD WEATHER. The so-called "Hot Stick" heater is total bunk. If there was a way to heat water by forcing it through a small opening, don't you think this technology would have revolutionized the water heater industry? Does your garden hose heat the water passing through it? No wonder they give a lifetime warranty on the Hot Stick - IT DOES NOTHING! (except violate the laws of physics)

Their hot tubs might be ok, but if they really think the Hot Stick gizmo is valid, then I question their judgement in general - which may have a bearing on the overall quality of their products.

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A 220 model will actually use less power in the long run, in that the 110 volt model only uses the waste heat from the pump to heat the water - VERY SLOWLY, and requires the motor to be running and pumping water CONSTANTLY - this uses plenty of electricity. Having a 110 volt heater element to do the job is MUCH quicker and more efficient and will ALSO WORK IN COLD WEATHER. The so-called "Hot Stick" heater is total bunk. If there was a way to heat water by forcing it through a small opening, don't you think this technology would have revolutionized the water heater industry? Does your garden hose heat the water passing through it? No wonder they give a lifetime warranty on the Hot Stick - IT DOES NOTHING! (except violate the laws of physics)

Their hot tubs might be ok, but if they really think the Hot Stick gizmo is valid, then I question their judgement in general - which may have a bearing on the overall quality of their products.

There is no law of physics violated. Friction of water through a restriction does cause a temperature increase. Every time water circulates through a pump the temperatures increases dues to frictional forces exerted by the pump.

As a previous worker at nuclear power plants the systems were brought up to near operational temperature by simply running the pumps.

Dreammaker spas are a very good budget spa. Dont expect $8000 performance from a $3000 spa. I happen to own a dreammaker Fantasy spa and love it. Most of the complaints I have read are simply not valid. It heats enough in the winter and doesn't heat too much in the summer.

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Yes, running water through electric pumps will slowly heat the water but it IS NOT the friction! It is the heat from the pumps! Hot Stick "technology" is total bunk!

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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.

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The reason I believe the Dreammaker 110 Volt spa would use less electricity is because it does not use a electric heater element to heat the water like a 220 volt spa does. The Hot stick technology they claim uses water pressure and micro jets & vortex action to create friction with the water molecules. It could all be manufacture BS for all I know thats why I was hoping to find some users reviews on these tubs.

I know they are not going to be close in quality and features of a $8000 and up Spa but im not sure I would use

the Spa enough to justify that kind of cost or the cost of site prep and electrical wiring to support it. Less than $3000 for a 110v plug & play 10-13 Jet spa to see if we like and would use a Spa is what Im looking at. relaxation and some Med level of hydrotherpy would be what we are hoping for.

At the sametime if Dreamaker is really a POS without any real benefit I don't want to waste my time & money on it.

Dreammaker now sells a Hybrid that has a 2 speed pump and a heater - THEY found using just a heat stick made the spas use way too much electricity.

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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.

Restricting water flow to create heat, briliant! Take a small pump and restrict it even more so the jet feel is...........well almost jet feel. I wouldn't call this technology, i'd call it stupidity.

Heaters heat water pumps move water. As long as you go with that you'll be fine. Don't try and pump water with a heater or heat water with a pump.

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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.

I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.

If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.

If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!

But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.

It does NOTHING!!

One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.

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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.

I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.

If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.

If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!

But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.

It does NOTHING!!

One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.

It does work - how else will the spa heat 1 1/2 degrees per hour and get up to 104. They stopped using the heat jacket on the pump so it definitely heated by friction. The ribs on the PVC fitting don't restrict the flow a lot, but that configuration does cost a lot to heat.

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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.

I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.

If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.

If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!

But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.

It does NOTHING!!

One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.

It does work - how else will the spa heat 1 1/2 degrees per hour and get up to 104. They stopped using the heat jacket on the pump so it definitely heated by friction. The ribs on the PVC fitting don't restrict the flow a lot, but that configuration does cost a lot to heat.

very simple: The heat of the motor is heating up the water passing through it at 1.5 degrees per hour or whatever.

If it were anything other than that it would be a HUGELY patentable breakthrough and would revolutionize the heating of water for many uses.

Again - just pull the stupid "stick" out and see what happens -- it still heats -- at the same rate!!

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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.

I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.

If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.

If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!

But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.

It does NOTHING!!

One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.

It does work - how else will the spa heat 1 1/2 degrees per hour and get up to 104. They stopped using the heat jacket on the pump so it definitely heated by friction. The ribs on the PVC fitting don't restrict the flow a lot, but that configuration does cost a lot to heat.

very simple: The heat of the motor is heating up the water passing through it at 1.5 degrees per hour or whatever.

If it were anything other than that it would be a HUGELY patentable breakthrough and would revolutionize the heating of water for many uses.

Again - just pull the stupid "stick" out and see what happens -- it still heats -- at the same rate!!

OK, I guess that's possible - have you pulled a stick out and tried that? I kind of find it hard to believe the pumps they use could thermally heat the water that much...but I defer to you on this one.

I should know this since we sell them. :wacko:

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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.

I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.

If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.

If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!

But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.

It does NOTHING!!

One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.

It does work - how else will the spa heat 1 1/2 degrees per hour and get up to 104. They stopped using the heat jacket on the pump so it definitely heated by friction. The ribs on the PVC fitting don't restrict the flow a lot, but that configuration does cost a lot to heat.

very simple: The heat of the motor is heating up the water passing through it at 1.5 degrees per hour or whatever.

If it were anything other than that it would be a HUGELY patentable breakthrough and would revolutionize the heating of water for many uses.

Again - just pull the stupid "stick" out and see what happens -- it still heats -- at the same rate!!

OK, I guess that's possible - have you pulled a stick out and tried that? I kind of find it hard to believe the pumps they use could thermally heat the water that much...but I defer to you on this one.

I should know this since we sell them. :wacko:

Yes I have tried this and you should too. It is a very easy thing to prove\disprove. And, as such, I think it is quite telling that DreamMaker does not run such tests and publish their results.

If these things really worked that is what they would do, but since they are bogus no such testing or measurement is done. Where is the data that shows how much heat the silly stick gizmo adds over the heat added by the motor?

And if you know about the inflatable small hot tubs available from various manufacturers, you may know that all of those are 110 volt units that heat entirely via pump waste heat.

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In Arizona you should be fine with a tub like that. Anywhere farther up north I don't know if it would be able to maintain the heat very well without having an actual heater it would probobly have to run all the time.

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DreamMaker now sells an inflatable spa...well, I can't call it a spa because all it has is a plastic ring around the bottom edge with a bunch of holes...basically a blower.

Thanks Southsider, I have an old leaking Quantum, I will take off the heat stick and give it a try.

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I have sold the Dreammaker spas,Frreflow spas and the South Pacific, for reliabilty the Dreammaker was a good spa, did not see many issues on it , after a few years we started to see pumps going bad, they are a slow heater, i am up in northwest, we do get really cold, first fillup takes about 24 hours to heat up, in winter time during use in 20 degree weather, they will lose 7- 10 degrees in 35 -4o minutes. rotational molded plastic spas like these do not need a long warranty on the shell, this is the same stuff that the playground equipment is going to, trashcans. etc... very durable, i have not seen a shell fail, electrical warranties on the 3 are about the same 1-2 years on electrical,Freeflow is a good tub as well they use the balboa controls with the flow thru heater, convertible from 110 to 220 , South Pacific, have the hard top cover . makes sense. also can go 110 or 220, cost of operation the Dreammakker will be the least since they do not use a true heater, just the motor skirt and the glow stick. on the Freeflow and the South Pacific roughly 15- 20 per month to on average. but all three are very good entry level tubs, they do not compare with your high end 7000- 10,000 range, 2 totally different markets for size, and operation.

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I bought a Dreammaker Big EZ this spring and love it (I posted a review at SpaDepot if you want to learn more). It does use forced friction to heat (contrary to what others said above), which makes it easy on the wallet. Yes, it takes longer to heat the water on fill-up, but that's not a big inconvenience to me. If it's a concern of yours, buy one of the new hybrid heat models, which have a supplemental heater--the cost is only a few hundred $ more. As an aside, Dreammaker support is awesome. They helped me with an ozonator installation problem I had (returned my call within 10 minutes). If you want a spa with lots of bells and whistles, this is not the one for you. However, if you want a reliable basic tub with adequate jets and a great price, I strongly recommend Dreammaker.

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I bought a Dreammaker Big EZ this spring and love it (I posted a review at SpaDepot if you want to learn more). It does use forced friction to heat (contrary to what others said above), which makes it easy on the wallet. Yes, it takes longer to heat the water on fill-up, but that's not a big inconvenience to me. If it's a concern of yours, buy one of the new hybrid heat models, which have a supplemental heater--the cost is only a few hundred $ more. As an aside, Dreammaker support is awesome. They helped me with an ozonator installation problem I had (returned my call within 10 minutes). If you want a spa with lots of bells and whistles, this is not the one for you. However, if you want a reliable basic tub with adequate jets and a great price, I strongly recommend Dreammaker.

Quoting from the Spa Depot itself in the product information about the Big EZ that you purchased:

"Standard DreamMaker spas are single speed (high only) and the water is warmed by recovering heat generated by the motor."

They also recommend that you add a REAL heater for more efficiency:

"The Econ-Circ system uses a 2-speed pump plus an efficient 900W heater which runs on low speed, only when needed. This is a more efficient heating system with shorter, quieter cycles. This option reduces monthly energy costs, and is especially recommended for those living in colder climates. Water heating time is also reduced, and the temperature is better maintained."

The Big EZ may be a good spa, but, as I have pointed out above, the "Hot Stick", supposed "friction" heating is completely bogus. I suspect that is why the Spa Depot does not even mention it.

However, they do mention this:

"DreamMaker models with the Econo-Circ upgrade meet the stringent California Energy Commission standards for portable spas. This upgrade can save you serious energy dollars, year after year."

What does this tell us? It tells us that the heater-less models that just use waste heat from the 110 motor on high speed are too wasteful to pass the California energy standards. Leaving a pump on high speed for hours and hours is NOT an efficient way to heat the water!

Pumping water through a piece of red plastic DOES NOT HEAT THE WATER!

A 110 volt pump working hard at high speed DOES HEAT the water over time. Many low cost tubs use this method to heat, and they have no "HOT STICK!"

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So far, I'm happy with the single speed heat stick pump for my needs. We've had some cooler nights recently (45 degrees), and my spa is on for about 1-2 hours during its nighttime filter cycle to maintain the heat. I can live with that since it is filtering at the same time. The average temperature here (average of daily high and low) is about 40 degrees in the winter, so figure the pump is on for about 2-5 hours per day in the winter and much less than that (depending on filter setting) in the summer. Again, if you live in a cold climate and are concerned that the friction heating is "bogus", just pay $200 for the upgrade to the two-speed pump with a heater. It's great that Dreammaker added that option this year.

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It is a basic law of physics that you cannot create energy.

Whether the heat comes from an electric element, rubbing two sticks together, motor widings etc, you pay for it to be produced, if you actually create enough friction to heat water in plumbing, it kills your pressure/flow, and the pump life suffers.

X amount of energy comes from the power source, and you pay for it no matter how it is used, there is no "free heat".

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