Costco Won't Take Back My Spa

[ggsteve]

I read it on the Internet so that it must be true. Armed with the knowledge gained here about Costco's iron clad no-questions-asked warranty I went and asked them when would be the best time to return my spa. It's a 2001 and they told me I have had it beyond a "reasonable timeframe" and they will not take it back. Frankly, I'm not surprised but this does fly in the face of what has been reported here.

[Roger]

I read it on the Internet so that it must be true. Armed with the knowledge gained here about Costco's iron clad no-questions-asked warranty I went and asked them when would be the best time to return my spa. It's a 2001 and they told me I have had it beyond a "reasonable timeframe" and they will not take it back. Frankly, I'm not surprised but this does fly in the face of what has been reported here.

You got a Costco tub to last for 7 years....wow, I'm amazed. That's a couple years longer than normal.

I have asked this question many times regarding bringing one back that was even a few years old and now we can finaly see what truely does happen. Iron clad for sure...LOL

[stomper4x4]

"It's a 2001 and they told me I have had it beyond a "reasonable timeframe" "

I would have to agree. That's a long time. Your pushing a decade there bud. I wouldn't take it back either and I own a p2.

There has to be a reasonable amount of time to cover something. I doubt anyone could stay in business if they took stuff back no questions asked after it's wore out.

[Pathfinder]

Im glad someone has finally posted an exact reality on this issue.

[spaboy62]

C'mon, does anyone here really expect a full refund on a seven or eight year old unit? Give me a break! Woodie

[hot_water]

If you're not satisfied, Costco is obligated to take back the merchandise, since that is their posted policy. It is NOT a "no questions asked" policy -- you have to tell them why you aren't satisfied, if they ask. On the other hand, there is nothing in the policy about a "reasonable timeframe". They could never survive a legal challenge citing a "reasonable timeframe" when they didn't state an exact time up front at the time of the sale.

It does seem unreasonable to return an 8 year old spa, but *if* you actually truly feel that you didn't get your value, I wouldn't stop with what the store guy told you. Call Costco's customer service number, tell them your story, and tell them why you're not satisfied. You may need to push a bit with a spa that old, but if they squeal, remind them that the posted policy does not carry a time limit. Clearly, they won't be overjoyed at this... especially if it is one of the spas from an out-of-business manufacturer (which means that Costco has to eat it). But if you push I would bet they will end up taking it back, since legally they are obligated to do so.

Many people were abusing the policy by bringing back computers and TVs after a few years to trade up or get the same level of computer for a lower price. This spurred Costco to exclude computers, TVs and other electronics from the unlimited policy back in early 2007. But if you bought before the policy change, your item was STILL returnable without a time limit. I suspect that eventually Costco will have to curtail returns of spas, but until they make that change to their policy, you should be covered.

What brand of spa was it and what happened to it?

[ggsteve]

I've been thinking about this long and hard. The spa is an Imperial, don't know if they're still around or not. It had problems from early on. During the first year Costco sent a tech to replace the circ pump under warranty. Soon after the warranty was up the spinner jets stopped spinning, and regardless of how often I cleaned or replaced the filters I would get the "PS1" or what ever the low flow error was. The ozone input stopped working because of the way the hose was run to the venturi, it kinked all the time. Whenever I drained and refilled the spa it would airlock and I would have to remove the side panel and play with the flexible hoses until I could get the trapped air out and get the pumps working again. It has no insulation to speak of so I made my own 3 1/2" thick foam side panels. All in all, a poor product and an uneducated purchase. It hasn't really worked in 3 years and if finally froze up when the heater failed to turn on again during the winter.

I paid a local tech $100 to come out and tell me that some pipes were cracked by the ice (DUH). I had to diagnose all the stuff he missed (both pumps leaking at the seals, one cracked pump housing and the heater is broken, won't use that tech again). Had I known Costco would take it back years ago, that would have been the right thing to do. I agree that 8 years is a long time, but the thing really is a piece of .....uh, an inferior product. Live and learn I guess.

[sandi]

Had I known Costco would take it back years ago, that would have been the right thing to do. I agree that 8 years is a long time, but the thing really is a piece of .....uh, an inferior product. Live and learn I guess.

It is a shame that you've had problems with your spa since it arrived. You say it hasn't worked in 3 years so you've probably done little (to nothing) in terms of maintaining it. Has it even been running for the past 3 years or just sitting in the yard? I hardly think anyone can criticize Costco for saying they won't take it back. Personally, I can't imagine trying to return anything that I've owned for 8 years and expecting to get even a partial refund for it but ... I'm sure you paid very little for your spa in comparison to what other spas were selling for 8 years ago. Buying a spa at Costco is like buying a diamond at Walmart (BTW, my spa is from Costco but NONE of my diamond jewelry is from Walmart ). If I bought a diamond ring at Walmart, I would never expect it to be of the same quality as a diamond from a high-end jewelry store. But if that's all I could afford or if I just didn't want to spend a lot for my jewelry, I could buy it at Walmart. My Costco spa cost a third of what I would have paid for the same size spa from a local dealer and we added our own insulation to minimize the cost to run it. Knock on wood, it has run for a little over a year and a half with no problems. If it lasts 8 years, we'll be calling the landfill to see if they'll take it, not Costco to see if we can return it.

Sandi

[Roger]

Had I known Costco would take it back years ago, that would have been the right thing to do. I agree that 8 years is a long time, but the thing really is a piece of .....uh, an inferior product. Live and learn I guess.

It is a shame that you've had problems with your spa since it arrived. You say it hasn't worked in 3 years so you've probably done little (to nothing) in terms of maintaining it. Has it even been running for the past 3 years or just sitting in the yard? I hardly think anyone can criticize Costco for saying they won't take it back. Personally, I can't imagine trying to return anything that I've owned for 8 years and expecting to get even a partial refund for it but ... I'm sure you paid very little for your spa in comparison to what other spas were selling for 8 years ago. Buying a spa at Costco is like buying a diamond at Walmart (BTW, my spa is from Costco but NONE of my diamond jewelry is from Walmart ). If I bought a diamond ring at Walmart, I would never expect it to be of the same quality as a diamond from a high-end jewelry store. But if that's all I could afford or if I just didn't want to spend a lot for my jewelry, I could buy it at Walmart. My Costco spa cost a third of what I would have paid for the same size spa from a local dealer and we added our own insulation to minimize the cost to run it. Knock on wood, it has run for a little over a year and a half with no problems. If it lasts 8 years, we'll be calling the landfill to see if they'll take it, not Costco to see if we can return it.

Sandi

So I think the return policy needs to be reworded or at the very least advertised to everyone interested as exactly what it is. A Limited Return Policy. With no clear guide lines. Maybe after a year if you try and return it they will say, "sorry that's not reasonable" Or even 3 months?? Iron clad.

[Jamie P]

We have had a costco for almsot two years and I have been very happy with them. I bought a GPS system right after they opened and last dec it quit working. Fortunately I had the receipt and the packaging and they simply had a higher up approve the return and gave me a credit and the model was disontinued so I just bought a nicer one that was actually cheaper. I was amazed they would do that after 18 months

I knew there were exceptions to the policy and thought hottubs were probably one (If you buy something like a laptop or camera there is a 90 day limit which is still generous). Here is their return policy from their site It sounds like a hot tub shoudl be covered however you would have to have the original box it came in (if it came in a box) and have it available curbside. Most people don't keep their original packaging (myself included I was just lucky with the gps that I had because other friends reported problems with them not working after 6 months). I think common sense should prevail here though. If you get the average useful life out of a product I wouldn't return it. If you buy a pair of jeans and you wear them every week and wash them every week and they last 5 years that is great That would mean 250 times of wearing them and 250 washes If they finally start to wear out, you got a good life out of them. I would never think of returning them.

here is their return policy for online purchases and I think it applies to the store as well:

http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePageL...ductNo=11204333

[Water Boy]

Come on, really??? The spa is 8 years old already, probably worn out. Would you really expect to be able to return it at this point??

That is kind of like the people that order a steak at a nice restaurant, and eat all of it but two bites, and then tell the waiter that it wasnt cooked right and you want a new one.

I would never let anyone return anything that old!

[hot_water]

We have had a costco for almsot two years and I have been very happy with them. I bought a GPS system right after they opened and last dec it quit working. Fortunately I had the receipt and the packaging and they simply had a higher up approve the return and gave me a credit and the model was disontinued so I just bought a nicer one that was actually cheaper. I was amazed they would do that after 18 months

I knew there were exceptions to the policy and thought hottubs were probably one (If you buy something like a laptop or camera there is a 90 day limit which is still generous). Here is their return policy from their site It sounds like a hot tub shoudl be covered however you would have to have the original box it came in (if it came in a box) and have it available curbside. Most people don't keep their original packaging (myself included I was just lucky with the gps that I had because other friends reported problems with them not working after 6 months). I think common sense should prevail here though. If you get the average useful life out of a product I wouldn't return it. If you buy a pair of jeans and you wear them every week and wash them every week and they last 5 years that is great That would mean 250 times of wearing them and 250 washes If they finally start to wear out, you got a good life out of them. I would never think of returning them.

here is their return policy for online purchases and I think it applies to the store as well:

http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePageL...ductNo=11204333

As the above post points out via the link to Costco, the stated policy makes specific exclusions from the unliited policy: TVs, computers, and certain other items. But not spas. So, legally, your spa is covered by the unlimited satisfaction guarantee. Costco is quite proud of their liberal return policy. If they decided NOT to honor your warranty, you could give them a legal hassel in small claims. They don't want this, ever.

Regarding the packaging, Costco.com requires that the item be packaged "in like manner" to the way it was originally packaged. This is because they are going to put it on a truck directly, so it needs to be secure to ensure it isn't damaged. This DOESN'T mean that you have to have the original packaging! Few people would keep the pallet and all the cardboard, strapping, etc. It just means you have to do something similar and of similar quality to provide reasonable protection. So yes, you might have to go get a pallet (usually around $20) some carbdoard, etc. But tossing the original packing material doesn't void your ability to make a return.

As for the retail warehouse, there's a sign in the Customer Service area of the store, that they would "prefer" the original packaging for returned items. Note that this is different than "MUST BE in the original packaging". Again, this is because the item is sent directly back to the manufacturer in most cases. Costco will / can not refuse a warehouse return if it's not in original packing.

I don't shop at Walmart. For diamonds, I buy loose stones & have them set. This is an excellent example of how a reasonably savvy consumer can save a LOT of money (you *don't - don't - don't* always get what you pay for!!) since if you shop you can find the same color, clarity & cut of stone at enormous discounts compared to some of the higher price "name" jewelry retailers, who often sell lesser quality stones for two to three times the price. Of course, diamonds should be bought with a cert and can easily be independently evaluated (usually for insurance purposes) -- no such luck with tubs.

ggsteve, it does sound like your spa was a disaster. I like Costco and and the value they offer, but it is just as foolish to argue that all their spas have been good as it is to argue that paying more for a name brand in itself guarantees better value. I imagine that if you make your case to corporate Customer Service, you will end up getting your return. Don't offer up that you were unaware of the return policy - this says that you didn't rely on the return policy when you made the purchase and isn't something you want to admit to. All you need to say is that you're just getting around to returning it, which it true.

[hot_water]

BTW, here's a link from another thread ( http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...18746&st=20 ). The last post (as of this writing) is from Matt87109, who called the customer service line at Costco to ask about the details of the return policy, specifically relating to spas. Matt writes:

>> "I called and asked costco's customer service. The CS rep said there was no small print and that I could return it ten years later (geeeeze). Anyway after I pointed out the link to the sheet that indicated a 1000 dollar return fee she said she wanted to investigate and would call me in a day or two. She gave me her name and extension. That's reasonable to me... I'll let you know what happens."

The $1000 return fee thing is a charge mentioned by Calspa (the manufacturer in question) and doesn't relate to returns to Costco.

Again, I don't advocate abusing the Costco policy (which will ultimately cause them to change it) but if you feel like you got screwed... the point of the policy is to protect the Costco customer. They want to sell you toilet paper - and, importantly to them, keep you paying your renewal fees - for years to come.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

As the above post points out via the link to Costco, the stated policy makes specific exclusions from the unliited policy: TVs, computers, and certain other items. But not spas. So, legally, your spa is covered by the unlimited satisfaction guarantee. Costco is quite proud of their liberal return policy. If they decided NOT to honor your warranty, you could give them a legal hassel in small claims. They don't want this, ever.

Give Costco a call. If its been a problem for years tell them that; use their return policy. The manager probably defaults to "sorry" just because its easier for them and once you push they'll listen. Eventually Costco will undoubtedly adjust this policy fo the spas they sell but you bought yours with teh policy in tact, use it.

[Shaamus]

Eventually Costco will undoubtedly adjust this policy fo the spas they sell but you bought yours with teh policy in tact, use it.

They're either going to have to stop selling spas or change the return policy because they sell stripped down spas that aren't built to last a long time. I'm a huge Costco shopper, but it's for stuff in bulk like peanut butter and laundry detergent. You can't buy a spa in bulk. To make a spa cheap you have to make it cheap. There are quite a few mass and internet merchants selling those kinds of spas. They just aren't compatible with a 100% return it when you like satisfaction guarantee. How many companies have they put out of business so far? Keys... Hydro... Infinity... Tatum is waivering

BTW, Imperial was a Gatsby (after it was bought by Jacuzzi) private label.

[soakerguy]

I can't believe that you would return it after eight years... I am on year three of my hydrospa P.E. II and would have reservations takeing it back even now. Perhaps I should return my Kirland signature 20 year old underwear as I am not satisfied Really though. What was the cost of the spa?

[Roger]

I can't believe that you would return it after eight years... I am on year three of my hydrospa P.E. II and would have reservations takeing it back even now. Perhaps I should return my Kirland signature 20 year old underwear as I am not satisfied Really though. What was the cost of the spa?

OK so it's OK to say "we have a 100% no questions asked return policy" and use that to give some VALUE to the tub sold at Costco. Yet it's simply not true or even available. OK fine there VALUE just went down even more and we should make sure to communicate as such!! And everyone should be sure to take any value from the return policy out of the picture when purchasing these junky tubs. Because around here dealers take lemons back or make sure to properly fix them. Which is more than Costco ever does. Seems its half a**ed repair most times.

Read Soaker. after a few years the trouble started and really 5 was all he got.

[jtravel]

If you honestly had problems with the Spa and it could not be repaired to your satisfaction during the warranty period you should have contacted Costco and returned it at that point.

You didn't do that and should take some personal responsibility for your choices and actions.

The board members who work for Spa dealers encouraging this kind of behavior should be ashamed of themselves. You prove your dishonest nature by doing so and I would not want to do any business with you.

[jtravel]

Trying to use this rejection of the return of an 8 year old spa as an example to bash Costco and their return policy is an absurd red herring.

Costco stands behind the products they sell 100% and I have used their excellent satisfaction policy a few times.

Any normal honest person would know before the manufactures warranty expires if they are satisfied with their Spa purchase.

Costco does not fix or repair Spa's

They are covered under the Manufactures warranty. If the Manufacture goes out of Business Costco

Will step in and attempt to find someone else to service the warranty. You could return the Spa at that point if your having problems under the Costco satisfaction policy and be justified doing so.

The manufacture agreed to market a quality Spa's or whatever other product thru Costco at a specific price point. That’s a choice the manufacture made and they need to live up to their agreements.

If the manufacture then chooses to cut corners and put out an inferior product that’s a bad choice they made as a business and will suffer the conquences when they get their product returned.

under insulated Spa's were sold in the Past but that was true of spas sold by other manufatures as well as thoes sold by Costco.

the Spa market has matured over the years and energy efficency has come a long way.

California has specific standards on energy use and efficiency of spa's that can be sold in the state. You can download that information from the internet and see the R value of insulation in the tub and cover and energy use numbers to compare the different tubs and manufactures.

I would have no problem buying one of the OC Spas by Cal Spa's that Costco is now selling.

Quality Manufacture making a quality product at a fair price. The cost savings comes in by cutting out the middleman and their overhead from a storefront and sales staff.

I understand you guys in the business of selling Spa's are taking a hit from places like Costco taking away your market share and your bashing out of anger,so it goes

Some people prefer to deal with a local shop that may or may not be their when you need them. Other have no problem calling the manufacture direct and getting information from them or using the internet as needed. We all need to research our purchase and make sure we know what we are getting and what level of service and help we will require.

[jtravel]

Sorry, double post

[Shaamus]

The cost savings comes in by cutting out the middleman and their overhead from a storefront and sales staff.

I agree that Costco's return policy shouldn't be discounted because a guy is thinking about using their return policy after eight years. But, they don't cut out the middleman. They are the middleman just like a dealer is. An extremely small percentage of spa dealers buy their tubs from a distributor and those are usually firms that are selling under 10 a year. Most dealers buy direct from the factory, just like Costco.

They're a little cheaper because they have a little lower markup. I think I read that Costco tries to stay under 15%. I would say most dealers are between 25%-40% depending on the time of year you hit them. But Costco doesn't do delivery, setup, nor have to carry the overhead of a service department in the event warranty service is required. They also primarily sell the bottom end of the lines. When Costco has actually carried some better tubs, they've been up around $7000-$8000. The thing that's been lost in this holy war of Costco vs. the establishment (buying an $8000 tub that's really a $4000 tub for $4000) is that a customer can go into most dealers and get a similar product for a similar price.

[jtravel]

They are the middleman just like a dealer is. An extremely small percentage of spa dealers buy their tubs from a distributor and those are usually firms that are selling under 10 a year. Most dealers buy direct from the factory, just like Costco.

I can see your point that Costco is still a middleman. They Just let the Factory deal with shipping and

warranty repair and add a smaller markup.

When I go into a Spa dealer its like buying a Car. The salesmen is always playing games to see how much he can get out of the customers. I just don't enjoy spending alot of my time playing games with the sales staff.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

They are the middleman just like a dealer is. An extremely small percentage of spa dealers buy their tubs from a distributor and those are usually firms that are selling under 10 a year. Most dealers buy direct from the factory, just like Costco.

I can see your point that Costco is still a middleman. They Just let the Factory deal with shipping and

warranty repair and add a smaller markup.

When I go into a Spa dealer its like buying a Car. The salesmen is always playing games to see how much he can get out of the customers. I just don't enjoy spending alot of my time playing games with the sales staff.

That's a wide brush you're using. Don't judge all dealers basaed on how your local dealer may be.

And as noted, Costco is certainly the middleman. The do have less overhead and a retrun policy so they've got that going for them but then again, they also don't service the spas they sell, you can't wet test, they have no information on them other than the inflated spec sheets (some game playing there) and they don't sell quality spas.

There is good and bad to the Costco spa story.

[ggsteve]

If you honestly had problems with the Spa and it could not be repaired to your satisfaction during the warranty period you should have contacted Costco and returned it at that point.

You didn't do that and should take some personal responsibility for your choices and actions.

The board members who work for Spa dealers encouraging this kind of behavior should be ashamed of themselves. You prove your dishonest nature by doing so and I would not want to do any business with you.

I am an avid Costco shopper. I do all of my grocery shopping there, buy all my lawn products, even furniture, whatever I can. I am not dishonest. I really just started this thread as a hypothetical exercise. I didn't really think they would take the tub back, I know the tub is old, but that's not what their return policy says. Assuming I really did want to push this I think I would win and Costco would be forced to take the tub back. The return policy offers complete satisfaction with no time limit. Your previous post said that Costco backs their products 100%. Not true, maybe 99%, but not 100. If their policy is 100% satisfaction for a "reasonable timeframe" then what that is needs to be specified in fine print. Heck there's enough unemployed lawyers around. They do market their "second to none" return policy, so they are beholden to it. Whether you think I'm a jerk for trying to return the tub or not is your opinion.

As for my responsibility, Costco's return policy absolves me of any. As written, if I am not satisfied, they take it back. I was thoroughly unsatisfied with the spa, and should have taken it back years ago, but I didn't know I could.

[hottubdan]

The manufacture agreed to market a quality Spa's or whatever other product thru Costco at a specific price point. That’s a choice the manufacture made and they need to live up to their agreements.

The problem is Costco negotiates a specific price point AND specific features. Turns out no one can profitably make a "quality" product with those conditions. Not an issue with cutting corners.

that is what Costco does to the industry. It is not an issue of price. Or return policy. It is creating perception that all spas are the same, they are cheap and troublesome.