Spa Shell Material & Construction

[Altazi]

The transduces put sound waves directly in the water. That is what I mean they do not put sound in the air until it passes through the water. It is a way to put sound in a spa without using logical means. Like speakers. Have you ever heard of speakers.

I took it to mean just that. Jim's point is that the transducer's acoustic output is coupled through non-compressable media.

I would tend to regard this as harmless except at exceptionally high power levels, and as I said earlier, I would caution pregnant women against exposing their unborn babies to these high-power sound waves. Better be safe than sorry!

Regards,

Altazi, AKA party-poopers, wet-blanket, cautious Carl, etc.

[Chas]

The transduces put sound waves directly in the water. That is what I mean they do not put sound in the air until it passes through the water.

No, the transducers put the sound into the water, but they also turn the spa shell into a set of speakers, in a sense. The sound comes from the shell above the water line as much or more than from the water. Saying the sound doesn't get into the air until it 'passes through the water shows a complete lack of understanding for how this unique system works, which could easily be rectified by simply sitting in a spa with Saudio II.

Your lack of understanding is excusable, the system IS unique. Also, it was designed by real engineers, and it is ETL listed, two things which seem to be just out of your reach. Sorry.

It is a way to put sound in a spa without using logical means.

It is a way to put sound in a spa without copying everyone else in the industry. It is unlike other systems, in fact with the digital power amp and componants designed for just this use, it is also unlike other spas with transducers.

Like speakers. Have you ever heard of speakers.

Yes, I have seen them on our lower-end spas, and certain other spas of more modest quality. They get wet and stop working. They stick up and make it tough to remove the covers, they limit the insulation in the corners above them, they make it harder and more expensive to ship the spas, and I notice that your spas exhibit all of these tendancies. Sundance has some really good ones which at least retract into the tub, and are very high-end. I think the Sundance system is one of the best-sounding speaker-based systems going. A close second would be Caldera, with retractable speakers and a sub-woofer in the cabinet.

And, of course the Spaudio II system includes a set of outdoor speakers driven by a second set of channels in the digital power amp, which can be controlled independantly of the internal transducers.

Jim, let's face it. You don't have this system, aren't going to be able to get it, and it's from HotSpring, the company you love to hate. So it would be safe to say that you planned to put it down before you ever even saw it. And you will never acknowledge it as a good way to have a sound system which is completely integrated into the tub, with no speakers to get wet or to have to work around or retract. So why don't we stop pretendig to know about things we don't, and stop trying to use phony scare tactics to make this fine system look bad.

[tumbleweed]

Chas; Why don't you take all of that mental energy and use it on something better.

The transduces put sound waves directly in the water. That is what I mean they do not put sound in the air until it passes through the water. It is a way to put sound in a spa without using logical means. Like speakers. Have you ever heard of speakers.

As anyone who took the time to read Chas's post would know, this has already been adressed.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Let's face it, Chas, I would never not ever want to put my customers in harms way. So, I would never, not ever, put transducers on a spa shell. I am an electrical engineer and I can easily design that system and put it on any spa. It is very simple, very easy to do. It does not follow any of the well known ways to align the timing on sound waves.

You do know something about the timing of sound waves? You do know that it is impossible to get sound to go through water and air and have them in the same phase? It distorts the purity of the original recording and kills parts of the frequency response. Part of the problem is not only the fact that this is dangerous to human organs, it is idiotic. That is why when people hear our sound system, they tell me that it is the best sound system they have ever heard in a spa. That is because I consulted sound engineers on the design. I took the basic sound system of Phoenix and tweeked it with a dual cone sub woofer and it sounds like a live band playing. You do remember that I am a musician?

I had one customer who went to every store in her area. Then went to all the fairs and home shows. She listened to every sound system on ever spa, including yours. She determined that she did not want a sound system on the spa. She also tested 9 spas in a wet test and liked the D1 spa the best, until she sat in the Lakeshore.

Anyway, we took her and her friend out to eat, and back to the "spa farm". I did not bother to even show her the sound system on our spa, but we had an SCF sitting out front with the stereo. As we walked past, she said, "Just for comparison, let me listen to your sound system."

She added the four speaker stereo to her spa. It is pretty awesome. The problem that I have now is that I am the only one who seems to order that set up any more and phoenix may discontinue it because of cost.

They want customers to buy the pop up speakers, which are not the best.

I am beginning to think you are really stupid to be arguing about things you know nothing about. And you need to find something better to do with your intellect.

http://w w w . s p a s p e c i a l i s t . C o m / TheBestDream9.mp3

[Chas]

Let's face it, Chas, I would never not ever want to put my customers in harms way.

An excellent way to prove that would be to have ETL or UL test and approve your spas, especaily your add-on electrical componants, larger pumps, etc.

I am an electrical engineer and I can easily design that system and put it on any spa.

I don't think so. We have been over this ground before. You are not an engineer. You do not have an education. You have not taken and passed the needed exams. You do not have a license.

[Glenn]

Just wanted to chip in on the transducers, Arctic offers them as well as part of a $3000.00 option on there tubs, comes with an ipod and other equiptment i didnt bother to look at, I have a dedicated home theatre with approx 2000 watts of good clean fun, I enjoy peace and quiet when im outside in the tub, I have outdoor speakers in the gardens if i am entertaining and need some background music, to each his own, wasnt this topic about shell construction or something?? lol. It would be nice if you guys stopped attacking each other, but then what would you do (JK)

I took it to mean just that. Jim's point is that the transducer's acoustic output is coupled through non-compressable media.

I would tend to regard this as harmless except at exceptionally high power levels, and as I said earlier, I would caution pregnant women against exposing their unborn babies to these high-power sound waves. Better be safe than sorry!

Regards,

Altazi, AKA party-poopers, wet-blanket, cautious Carl, etc.

Pregnant women are not supposed to be hot tubbing.

http://xxx.bygpubxxx/natural/pregnancy.htm

[Trigger]

Actually sound travels better in water than air. Tranducers against the shell could result in a stunning audio sensation. Not to mention the virbation of the sound waves through the water to the body.

sound waves damaging to the body? Sure, maybe at the appropriate amplitude and frequency (such that is being used in Ultra sound and a fetus, or the mysterious "Brown Note" technolgy that the folks in skunk works joke about. . But we're not talking that here, are we?). Suggesting in a hot tub forum that a sound system with tranducers against a hot tub shell as being dangerous is simpley ignorant.

[Tom]

Nobody has done any testing of powerful sound waves in water on the human body

On the contrary, there is a large body of evidence of the beneficial effects of low-amplitude auditory-frequency soundwaves (called vibroacoustic therapy) on muscles and organs as well as on mood, attitude, and pain control.

Google "vibroacoustic therapy research" to review the literature.