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Can Someone Please Help Me?


shopper67

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I would be extremely leary of any company that continually changes it's name. There are a great deal of fraudulent spa companies afoot (not saying Four Winds is one) so be diligent and do your research. There are predators afoot and many of them operate in the internet realm. Here's one guy to be sure and avoid:

http://www.steve-lanni.com

There are many others like him.

Good luck with your continued search. :)

Terminator

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Does anyone have any information on Discount Spas direct.com or Four Winds Mfg? Four winds is one of the featured spas on their website. Good price, looks good but I have no idea. Four Winds was formerly named Stream Line & is under new ownership. Any pros/cons would help.

The spa industry is rough sailing for people who are not aware of what is going on.

Get an education on spas before you spend any money. Attractive prices, and sales pitches are all over the place. It would be wonderful if you could get a perfect spa for $3000 with great theapy and a real warranty, but that is fiction.

I would stick with better brands and do research on spa construction, ANSI safety standards and things that are important.

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The spa industry is rough sailing for people who are not aware of what is going on.

Get an education on spas before you spend any money. Attractive prices, and sales pitches are all over the place. It would be wonderful if you could get a perfect spa for $3000 with great theapy and a real warranty, but that is fiction.

I would stick with better brands and do research on spa construction, ANSI safety standards and things that are important.

Click Here

this is blatant disregard for board guidlines jim

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this is blatant disregard for board guidlines jim

Aren't we getting a little "testy".

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areyou trying to push my buttons jim

I am trying to get you to lighten up. I am a really good person.

What about me makes you so angry? Please tell me and lets work this out.

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People appreciate good advice. Why not say something like,"check your local BBB, check out some local dealers- maybe you'll find a dealer you'll like, go with your gut on who to buy from." Why steer people?

That is an interesting thing to say. "Why steer people?"

Who died and made that rule that you can't steer people to facts?

Our site has been read by many hundreds of thosands of people, and most of them do not buy from me, but they certainly got better information than any other web site in the world. That is what most of them email me and tell me.

They are tired of sales bull that is not backed up with facts.

Anybody who uses there gut to buy a spa is an idiot. Guts do not give you any sort of reality.

There are a lot of really stupid sales people who are full of convictions about their products, but their convictions are based on nonsense fed to them by some bull caca factory who knows how to get what they want.

If you as a spa sales person do not even know what is going on with your own product, how can you be selling it?

Most of the sales people are reading a script.

A really nice, but totally ignorant person, can and will give you a nice feeling in your gut about them. That does not mean that what they sell is any good at all. What it means is that two ignorant people, one the sales person, and the other the shopper feel good about each other.

That is the biggest sales technique there is.

"Oh! Honey! Let's get it. That sales man makes me feel good about the spa."

I took about a hundred seminars on sales, and they all teach that part.

Want to hear what you are supposed to do.

1/ Make eye contact.

2/ Find common ground. (talk about family friends, cats, dogs, horses, cars or what ever the customer is in to.)

3/ Make sure they feel comfortable with you. If they don't then turn them over to another sales person.

You must make a freind in some way and you must do it quickly.

Does that sound familiar. I remember I went to a car dealer one time. I told him I was from California.

He says that "I have a sister in California". I went in and asked all the sales people if this guy has a sister in CA, and he did not. His idea was that you gotta find that common ground and it did not matter if you lie about it.

I hate that crap. I have been there and done all of that. No seasoned shopper is going to fall for that "nice salesman crap". They are there to buy a spa, not take home a salesman.

:D:lol::rolleyes:

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A spa without some human beings behind it is worthless. A good retailer selling a mediocre spa will make tons of people happy because they care. A crook selling a great spa is doing nothing for the consumer.

Did you read what you wrote?

A crook doesn't sell a good product? They sell crap.

A crook like a company who sells unsafe, not ANSI conforming spas, dealer, sells crap and lies to people for money.

It doesn't matter what you think, if the foundation of your business is lies and deception, it doesn't matter if you kiss and hug your customers when they come in the store. It negates all the work you do. It makes you in to scum, by associating with the factory who builds these peices of crap. It makes you into a liar and a theif, even when you think you are a wonderful person.

Ignorance is not bliss. It is ignorance, and that is the root cause of suffering.

It does not matter what you believe. The only thing that matters is the truth.

:)

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We take care of our customers and serve plenty others who have not bought from us. I differ with you. A crook can sell a good/great product. He's a crook if he is not taking care of the customer and their needs. It's a long term relationship for us and the spa owner. Alot of products are good, but not all people who sell them are.

The foundation of our business is not based on the manufacturer we sell. We would and DO stand behind anything and everything we sell, PERIOD.

We try to find the products which we think will perform the best. Have we chosen some products in the past that didn't, sure. We still stood behind them.

You're entitled to your opinions.

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We take care of our customers and serve plenty others who have not bought from us. I differ with you. A crook can sell a good/great product. He's a crook if he is not taking care of the customer and their needs. It's a long term relationship for us and the spa owner. Alot of products are good, but not all people who sell them are.

The foundation of our business is not based on the manufacturer we sell. We would and DO stand behind anything and everything we sell, PERIOD.

We try to find the products which we think will perform the best. Have we chosen some products in the past that didn't, sure. We still stood behind them.

You're entitled to your opinions.

Lets talk about what we agree on. The bylaws of our company have ethics in them. It is a rule for us that we 1/ sell the best possible products. 2/ service our customers as best as possible. 3/ maintain the business so we can do #1 and #2.

If you miss the number one part, it is not so good. :)

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Did you read what you wrote?

A crook doesn't sell a good product? They sell crap.

A crook like a company who sells unsafe, not ANSI conforming spas, dealer, sells crap and lies to people for money.

You mean like someone who sells copper/silver ionizers on their website and tells customers that they do not have to use chlorine, bromine, biguanide, (Hydrogen peroxide is NOT an EPA approved sanitizer), only keep .3 to .6 ppm copper in the water to keep it safe? Then on the instuctions page for the ionizer it says that dichlor must be used with it? How about an explanation that ions are just another word for metals in the water and they can be just as toxic and can stain hair and nails? Sounds like selling lies to people for money to me!

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You mean like someone who sells copper/silver ionizers on their website and tells customers that they do not have to use chlorine, bromine, biguanide, (Hydrogen peroxide is NOT an EPA approved sanitizer), only keep .3 to .6 ppm copper in the water to keep it safe? Then on the instuctions page for the ionizer it says that dichlor must be used with it? How about an explanation that ions are just another word for metals in the water and they can be just as toxic and can stain hair and nails? Sounds like selling lies to people for money to me!

Man, what got under you craw? Do you know how ions work? Obviously not.

Do you know that it is my reasearch including testing for bacteria and other microoganisims that created the whole ion system. Do you know that it was my reaseach that a software company put in their software for anyone using ions to get proper levels. It is my numbers used in the programs.

Did you know that a whole bottle of instant ions lasts over a year and a half in a spa for $22 bucks. It sounds like I am gonna make a lot of money from that?

When I first discoverd ions I was like you, pretty stupid about them. I was out repairing a swimming pool with my service tech. We were changing out a leaky old sand filter. I noticed the ionizer on the wall and proceeded to tell the lady all the crap that you were just stating from the chemical companies. I learned from them too.

She looked at me with compassion and said: "I have heard that negative stuff from every pool repair person who has been in the equipment room. However, I have been using it for 15 years and it is wonderful. My guests all love it and tell me how they don't have to breath fumes and their eyes don't get all red."

I sort of took my foot out of my mouth and proceeded to ask her how it worked for her pool. The water was clear as can be and there was no chlorine smell in the beautiful indoor pool room she had. I was very interested to find out how it worked. This was in 94 or 95.

I went and bought ionizers from different places. I paid as much a $800 for one unit to test it out. All my intensive testing resulted in the instructions you see on our site. It is a really nice way and very safe to take care of water. I put the formula past one of the best water chemists who appears from time to time on forums, Bob Lowry. He is a very knowledeable man and many of you may know him. He told me that it was all good and that he recommeded sligtly more shock, potassium peroximonosulfate. We added that and it became even easier to take care of the water. The shock got rid of all the chlorine smell.

Anyway, you need to get that chip off your shoulder. I am just an old man with a lot of experience and I don't like bull **** from anyone.

http://www.xxxx.com/nov4.html

read this.

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Man, what got under you craw? Do you know how ions work? Obviously not.

Do you know that it is my reasearch including testing for bacteria and other microoganisims that created the whole ion system. Do you know that it was my reaseach that a software company put in their software for anyone using ions to get proper levels. It is my numbers used in the programs.

Did you know that a whole bottle of instant ions lasts over a year and a half in a spa for $22 bucks. It sounds like I am gonna make a lot of money from that?

When I first discoverd ions I was like you, pretty stupid about them. I was out repairing a swimming pool with my service tech. We were changing out a leaky old sand filter. I noticed the ionizer on the wall and proceeded to tell the lady all the crap that you were just stating from the chemical companies. I learned from them too.

She looked at me with compassion and said: "I have heard that negative stuff from every pool repair person who has been in the equipment room. However, I have been using it for 15 years and it is wonderful. My guests all love it and tell me how they don't have to breath fumes and their eyes don't get all red."

I sort of took my foot out of my mouth and proceeded to ask her how it worked for her pool. The water was clear as can be and there was no chlorine smell in the beautiful indoor pool room she had. I was very interested to find out how it worked. This was in 94 or 95.

I went and bought ionizers from different places. I paid as much a $800 for one unit to test it out. All my intensive testing resulted in the instructions you see on our site. It is a really nice way and very safe to take care of water. I put the formula past one of the best water chemists who appears from time to time on forums, Bob Lowry. He is a very knowledeable man and many of you may know him. He told me that it was all good and that he recommeded sligtly more shock, potassium peroximonosulfate. We added that and it became even easier to take care of the water. The shock got rid of all the chlorine smell.

Anyway, you need to get that chip off your shoulder. I am just an old man with a lot of experience and I don't like bull **** from anyone.

http://www.xxxx.com/nov4.html

read this.

Your first mistake is assume I am a spa saleman....Your second mistake is assuming I have no background in chemistry. I probably have a better understanding of how metal ions in the water work than you do and the mechcanisms by which they are bacteriostatic and algaestatic (They are NOT virostatic, however).

It's just that you are so fast to slam everyone else but you are just as guilty of commiting the things you are so fast to accuse others of....just trying to point out your hippocracy. By the way, you might be interested to know that in the US Zodiac just increased the chlorine levels used with the Nature2 spa cartrdiges (a passive silver/copper system) to normal levels and NOT .5 ppm. This has been very quiet but if you read the instructions in the new (copyright 2006) boxes you will see they now recommed a 6 ppm FC and shock to 10 ppm with dichlor and have cut back on the use of MPS (Oxone) which is only an oxidizer and not a sanitizer.

BTW, posting a link from YOUR OWN WEBSITE does not show anything except your overblown ego. When I have posted links they have been from outside sources to back up my statements. There are some people selling copper sulfate and silver nitrate 'snake oil' to the unsuspecting public and telling them it will keep their water safe with little or no chlorine and has no negative side effects. Seems like you are one of them too!

I also wonder why you feel it so necessary to include vugarities in almost every one of your posts. Do you really think using the term "bull S**t" is necessary or proper in conversation in the forum? I guess this just shows the caliber of person that you really are.

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