mgodwin Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I have two Jandy Lite2 LG heaters servicing a 125,000 gallon indoor pool. I have had issues with them since they were installed, but have been able to use various "tricks" to get them working. The pilot is always lit, however I have the hardest time getting the burners to light. It seems to have gotten worse over the summer and now my "tricks" aren't working. I have had service people look at them regularly but it's never a completely definable problem. Anyone have any experience or success with this heater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps558 Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I have two Jandy Lite2 LG heaters servicing a 125,000 gallon indoor pool. I have had issues with them since they were installed, but have been able to use various "tricks" to get them working. The pilot is always lit, however I have the hardest time getting the burners to light. It seems to have gotten worse over the summer and now my "tricks" aren't working. I have had service people look at them regularly but it's never a completely definable problem. Anyone have any experience or success with this heater? How old are these heaters? Both of them are not working or just one? If it is both I would look into a water pressure problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg340 Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I have two Jandy Lite2 LG heaters servicing a 125,000 gallon indoor pool. I have had issues with them since they were installed, but have been able to use various "tricks" to get them working. The pilot is always lit, however I have the hardest time getting the burners to light. It seems to have gotten worse over the summer and now my "tricks" aren't working. I have had service people look at them regularly but it's never a completely definable problem. Anyone have any experience or success with this heater? How old are these heaters? Both of them are not working or just one? If it is both I would look into a water pressure problem. I've been fixing them for over 20years. How about a little more info..what "tricks" have you been using and how old are a good place to start. The first 2 numbers of the serial # are the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgodwin Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I have two Jandy Lite2 LG heaters servicing a 125,000 gallon indoor pool. I have had issues with them since they were installed, but have been able to use various "tricks" to get them working. The pilot is always lit, however I have the hardest time getting the burners to light. It seems to have gotten worse over the summer and now my "tricks" aren't working. I have had service people look at them regularly but it's never a completely definable problem. Anyone have any experience or success with this heater? How old are these heaters? Both of them are not working or just one? If it is both I would look into a water pressure problem. I've been fixing them for over 20years. How about a little more info..what "tricks" have you been using and how old are a good place to start. The first 2 numbers of the serial # are the year The heaters are 2 years old. The tricks I used in the past are things like switching them off for a few minutes and then back on, turning the temperature down and then back to the desired range, and I've even taken the front panel off and jiggled some of the wiring. These things sound ludicrous, but they have worked in the past. When we first put the heater in there was an issue with water pressure. The water valves are half closed to increase pressure running to the heaters. Neither heater is wanting to light its burners and both pilots are burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discountpoolspa Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 My first guess would be insufficient gas flow. These are 400,000BTU heaters? Propane or Natural gas? What size gas line is run, and how far from the source? One gas line for both heaters? How is the gas line plumbed to the source? In the case of natural gas, you could have a 2" line all the way from the heater to the meter, then whoever installed it reduced it to 3/4" to make it easier to connect to the meter. This effectively reduced your gas line flow rate to that of 3/4" plumbing. Very bad for heaters like this. A short run of 3/4" at the heater is OK, but there should be no reduction between the meter and where the line comes out for the heater. What size of gas meter do you have? It could be undersized. For example, in a residential property in my area, they put in a meter that can only handle about 260,000BTU. We have to get them upgraded to handle a single 400,000BTU heater. I see a lot of heaters with similar symptoms due to low gas flow. (don't confuse this with low gas pressure, though that could cause a problem too) The heater will work great, or at least OK, at first, but soot will clog up the burners or improper flame conditions will damage the heat exchanger over time, and the heater will become less and less reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaTechPool Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 The first thing I would do if you suspect gas flow issues, is have readings taken at the gas valve. I believe you said this was LG, which would indicate you are running these on propane. Of course, make sure these are propane heaters. I know it sounds dumb, but I do warranty for hayward pool products, and I've seen people try to install the wrong heater for the wrong gas type. To properly test the gas flow, you would need a manometer. A good service technician will have one of these, or if you have an hvac friend, he should have one. On the inside floor of the heater, will be a rating plate. On that rating plate, you will find a minimum and maximum static gas pressure reading, expressed in inches of water column or "W.C. - You will also see ratings for the outlet side or manifold side of the gas valve. All of the readings should be within the ranges stated on the rating plate. If they aren't, you need to look at things other than the heater causing your problems. I would first shut the gas cock off on the 2nd heater and try to fire the first and take those readings. Once you are successful with that, then go to the next heater and redo all the readings on both of the heaters. I hope some of this info is helpful. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgodwin Posted September 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 This all great information. I looked and they did reduce the natural gas line from 2" to 3/4" at the meter. I am also going to request that the meter be checked to see how much load it can handle. Hopefully this will solve my heater issues. Thanks for the great feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 "When we first put the heater in there was an issue with water pressure." "The water valves are half closed to increase pressure running to the heaters." I don't see a gas pressure problem here. Let me rephrase that. IF there is a gas problem, I don't think Its causing them to not light. If those heaters fired by jiggling wires or adjusting thermostat or cycling power, It sounds more like a pressure (water) problem. Or thermostat. Since the new energy efficient heaters came out, and I learned how finicky those heaters are to gas pressure, I've also learned how forgiving Natural draft type heaters are to gas pressure. They can be way low on inches of W/C and still fire! And since it's not forced fire, you can't hear it running lean. Most of the time, the owner never knows till the thing soots up. Are these heaters down in a pit (vault) or unusually elevated in relation to the water? You said they always had "issues", perhaps something was not addressed at installation. Or a mis adjusted pressure switch(If heater is lower than W/L)? Jandy lite2 LG. You mentioned pilot lights are burning. Did you mean once a call for heat comes, and the pilot lights? or the pilots are burning constant like a millivolt? Do you store your chems in the pump room? Chems love copper. Wire. A few thoughts from a clown... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgodwin Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 The heaters sit at deck level, but in a sealed room. Some chemicals are stored in this area, but they are behind closed door. Our service company has said that the pipe reduction at the meter is typical and should not be the problem. The pilot lights are always burning. Unfortunately I was not working at this facility during installation so I am working backwards to solve a mystery. I have found corners cut on the pool installation so it would not surprise me to find some here as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgodwin Posted September 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Our service company has told us that there needs to be a differential between the actual water temperature and the intended water temperature range for the heaters to light. We have been patiently waiting for the differential to be hit, and now the water is almost 3 degrees lower than where we like. I'm ready to call bullshit on the "differential theory." Any advice? BTW, I have floated the gas flow theory out there but the service company isn't receptive. This is becoming a frustrating issue and all the while I keep getting the complaints from our members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Are they really in a SEALED room? One heater requires lots of air, two need even more. There is a formula for determining the size of both combustion air and make up air openings in the room that are required. (Probably can find that info on the heaters website) I'm not talking about the openings in the ceiling for the stack. This could be part your problem, if not the problem. Not buying the "differential Theory" either. But if it were, all you would have to do is bump the thermostat up a bit. With the new digital thermostat heaters, inlet temp only needs to be cooler by one degree cause a call for heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaTechPool Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Pool Clown has touched on some very important issues that may be affecting your heaters operation. 400k btu heaters require an enourmous amount of oxygen for proper combustion. Each heaters installion manual will state the minimum amount of air inlets required for an indoor installation. Two heaters are gonna double that requirement. Additonally, it is NOT okay to reduce the gas line from 2" to 3/4" pipe at the meter. The line can and has to be reduced down to 3/4" ony before it enters the heater. It usually should have no more than 6 ft of 3/4" pipe before going into the heater. All of the gas valves are 3/4" FPT. The only real way to know if you have a gas pressure issue would be to have it tested with a manometer. Any good repair technician will have one of these. Lastly, at least here in so. california, your natural gas meter should be "upsized" by the local gas utility. Around here they do it for free - all you have to do is call and schedule an appointment. Most homes come with a 250 cubic inch gas meter and are then upgrade to a 400 cubic inch or greater. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgodwin Posted September 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 We had our service technician out again friday. He has now come to the conclusion that it could be the gas pressure. I know he tested it, probably with the manometer, and found there was not enough pressure coming through, especially when both heaters are running. He said he adjusted the regulator and now the gas pressure should be sufficient. However, he also opened all of our water valves leading to the heater, which dropped my flow rate. I checked the heaters when I came in this morning and they were not running with both thermostats at max. I tweaked the valves to get the flow rate up and magically the heaters lit. I was questioning the oxygen flow in that room too, but there are four rollout windows that we always have open. I am guessing this should be sufficient air flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Given what you wrote, My diagnosis: Not enough air AND water flow problem: Pump size wrong or filter problem. If your pool guy checked the Propane flow by water column , Find out from him what it was while the heaters were running/trying to fire. And find out the total square inches of the roll out window openings. If there are screens or louvers on the openings, then you have to subtract a percentage of the total (see online install manual on the manufacture's web site for specific numbers). Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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