Is Ozone A Worth While Add-on?

[jd-santaclarita]

I was in the spa showroom today and I noticed almost all tubs are coming with an ozone system. The guy said that I could add it to my spa (tiger river caspian its a 2005 or 2006, not sure which). He said that it would kill all the bacteria and i would not have to use chlorine any further. NO chlorine period. And it would make the water a lot softer and cleaner.

Is this true? I know this will sound lazy, but what I am looking for is a way to let me go straight to bed after the spa soak. I go to the gym in the morning, shower, go to work, come home, shower off before getting in the tub (after putting the kids to bed), soak in the tub, shower, etc, etc. Thats too many showers a day in my opinion. Is this my magic bullet that will let me exit the tub feeling soft and not stinky?

The kit is $350 for my spa, but I have seen kits for ~$100 on the internet (JED?). I think my tub is ozone ready and it has a little area to mount it.

Thoughts on this?

Thanks all,

JD

[gcgalt]

An ozone system may possibly reduce the amount of chlorine you use.....But it will not eliminate the need for it; the water still needs to be cleansed.

[Stevie]

Nope. Not needed. I've tried both systems a number of times with little change in chlorine/bromine demand or clarity.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Nope. Not needed. I've tried both systems a number of times with little change in chlorine/bromine demand or clarity.

On this Steve and I don't completely agree. My direct experience has convinced me that a good ozone unit can make water care much easier as you'll have less incidences of cloudy water and are less apt to be pulling your hair trying to deal with water management.

However, it is not a MUST have and it will not pay for itself in less chems used, it just makes life easier so you'll have to decide if its worth it (keep in mind you can add it at any time). I wouldn't be without one but I also wouldn't get one of the cheap UV units out there. Personally, I'd either get a good CD unit or skip it all together.

[dlzc]

...

He said that it would kill all the bacteria and i would not have to use chlorine any further. NO chlorine period. And it would make the water a lot softer and cleaner.

Is this true? I know this will sound lazy, but what I am looking for is a way to let me go straight to bed after the spa soak. I go to the gym in the morning, shower, go to work, come home, shower off before getting in the tub (after putting the kids to bed), soak in the tub, shower, etc, etc. Thats too many showers a day in my opinion. Is this my magic bullet that will let me exit the tub feeling soft and not stinky?

Ozone will not soften water.

Bromine will last longer in spas or pools, and ozone will reactivate bromide ion to hypobromous acid. If you don't think bromine "stinks", then you can acheive your goal. If you add less chemical, then maintaining the hardness and pH becomes easier / cheaper.

Ozone kills bacteria differently than chlorine (and bromine). It lyses the fat packets that the bacterium breathes through, and they "bleed" to death. The chlorine just poisons the cells, which takes more chlorine and more time.

If the ozone generator is big enough to add detectable levels of ozone to the pool / spa, be sure you ask them to show the ozone destruct unit for preventing toxic / out-of-compliance levels of ozone offgassing when the jets or aerator are turned on. And I can smell ozone on my skin and in my clothes (but I don't think this "stinks").

Do not try and use chlorine with ozone... the extra gas will try and strip the chlorine from solution (costing more), and they are not particularly "holistic"... they tend not to help one another.

You will still have to do maintenance. There is no reason you *must* stink when getting out of an all-chlorine pool / spa, or have hardness issues, unless maintenance is not being performed. Ozone will not eliminate maintenance... only make it less frequent.

My two cents.

[Deus66]

I study microbiology and an Ozone system (if not already installed) could be a waste of money. Chlorine works well, and as long as you keep on top of it, it'll keep the water clean and you can use less of it. I use minimal chlorine and keep my system clean by keeping the levels constant rather than high today / low tomorrow. Secondly I don't see where anyone has mentioned that Ozone will eat the under side of your cover if not opened everyday (maybe not everyday) but it is a gas and it rises to the space between the cover and the water. If you have pillows in your spa... same thing, over time they will be eaten away by Ozone trapped under the cover. Don't worry it won't be like "hey what happened to my pillows they were here yesterday". The cover / pillows will however degrade much faster.

dlzc...... This is not intened to sound like I am bashing your post! I am just going to elaborate further on how Chlorine / Ozone kill bacteria.

Chlorine: The chlorine breaks down into different chemicals, including hypochlorous acid (HOCl) and hypochlorite ion (OCl-). Both kill microorganisms and bacteria by attacking the lipids in the cell walls and destroying the enzymes and structures inside the cell, rendering them oxidized and harmless. The cells have what is known as the phospho-lipid bi-layer that makes up the membrane of the cell and the chlorine breaks down these lipids and the cell then lyses. Depending on the bacteria they will either use Aerobic respiration (oxygen) or Anaerobic respiration (no Oxygen).

Ozone: Ozone (O3) is poisonous and can kill some bacteria In water: Ozone releases extra oxygen molecules so that Hydrogen dioxide (H2O) results in hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).) This causes anything that relies on water, such as bacteria and fungi, to be effected: rubber and plastic can dry out, water exposed long enough becomes hydrogen peroxide, many odorous substances become neutralized and/or it's causing bacteria/fungi will be sterilized.

Ozone and Chlorine are fine together as long as neither one is "over" used. In an ideal situation Ozone which creates H2O2 would work great if someone was using something like SoftSoak because H2O2 is the primary sanitizer in Biguanide / Baquacil type systems i.e. SoftSoak.

I however use just plain ole' chlorine

[Wet in ChiTown]

Deus66, what would a blanket (bubble or thermal) do to the ozone that is being released when the cover is on ?? would it still slowly eat away the under side of the cover?

[dlzc]

Deus66, what would a blanket (bubble or thermal) do to the ozone that is being released when the cover is on ?? would it still slowly eat away the under side of the cover?

If the ozone generator is blowing offgas into your pool/spa, then ozone and any other gasses (such as chlorine) will strip out, and collect under your cover. Not sure what sense it makes to cover something you are blowing air inside... unless it is balloons.

Ozone should be applied based on ORP, when there is stuff for it to oxidize, and not based on "every time this pump runs". Setting a timer after you leave the pool for a certain dose would probably be a happy medium.

And sorry I am not Deus66...

[dlzc]

dlzc...... This is not intened to sound like I am bashing your post! I am just going to elaborate further on how Chlorine / Ozone kill bacteria.

Chlorine: The chlorine breaks down into different chemicals, including hypochlorous acid (HOCl) and hypochlorite ion (OCl-). Both kill microorganisms and bacteria by attacking the lipids in the cell walls and destroying the enzymes and structures inside the cell, rendering them oxidized and harmless. The cells have what is known as the phospho-lipid bi-layer that makes up the membrane of the cell and the chlorine breaks down these lipids and the cell then lyses. Depending on the bacteria they will either use Aerobic respiration (oxygen) or Anaerobic respiration (no Oxygen).

Ozone: Ozone (O3) is poisonous and can kill some bacteria In water: Ozone releases extra oxygen molecules so that Hydrogen dioxide (H2O) results in hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).) This causes anything that relies on water, such as bacteria and fungi, to be effected: rubber and plastic can dry out, water exposed long enough becomes hydrogen peroxide, many odorous substances become neutralized and/or it's causing bacteria/fungi will be sterilized.

Ozone and Chlorine are fine together as long as neither one is "over" used. In an ideal situation Ozone which creates H2O2 would work great if someone was using something like SoftSoak because H2O2 is the primary sanitizer in Biguanide / Baquacil type systems i.e. SoftSoak.

I however use just plain ole' chlorine

I don't study microbiology, but I used to work for a couple of companies that applied ozone to, among other things, pool water. And I do not own stock in any particular company...

You have a few extra adjectives in the description of ozone that raises my hackles. Ozone kills at minimum the same "bugs" that chlorine does, does it faster, and does it with less concentration.

Ozone decays to dissolved oxygen, it does not stay in "hydrogen peroxide state" for more than a very few seconds. If kill occurs rapidly, it does so as ozone (E. coli). Too many organisms have developed a means of staving off H2O2, even producing it during "normal operations". If you need the H2O2 reaction, you can apply ozone and hit it with a strong UV light source.

And ozone is not applied is a carrier that adds hardness or TDS to the water.

My comment about ozone and chlorine "working together" was meant this way:

* the carrier gas for ozone delivery strips chlorine gas too,

* ozone does not "reactivate" chlorine the way it reactivates bromine.

Rather that ozone helping a chlorine system, it costs more. Whereas with a bromine system, it ends up saving money, because you "recycle" the bromine.