Alternatives To Chlor/ Bromine

[turbottt1]

as the title says. are their other products that we can use to sanitize our spa that are not so harsh? We have one in the family that is getting nasty chemical burns from the bromine. It effects nobody else. We do use this spa a ton and need a very good sanitizer. thank you. steve

[tom the spa guy]

as the title says. are their other products that we can use to sanitize our spa that are not so harsh? We have one in the family that is getting nasty chemical burns from the bromine. It effects nobody else. We do use this spa a ton and need a very good sanitizer. thank you. steve

Hi Steve,

Bromine is sold in different qualities - most bromine has as much as 60% - 80% chlorine in it - check your labels. As you purchase bromine from Walmarts and Home Depots, etc. you'll see higher chlorine contents.

There are a couple of alternatives:

BaquaSpa is a hydrogen peroxide based sanitizer that is chlorine & bromine free. The sanitizer does not get "used up" unless it is actually disinfecting, as opposed to bromine/chlorine tablets that melt away and get broken down by the high heat. It is also pH independent, so it's sanitizing effectiveness is not diminished by high/low pH / alk levels. It does cost more on a per-bottle basis, but since you only add the sanitizer as needed (if you don't use the spa as much one week as the next, you'll add less or even none), the average cost is about the same.

Another alternative is Brilliance for Spas, also distributed by Arch Chemicals. Brilliance for Spas is Bromine that is 100% chlorine free, so the harshness is really reduced. I've had great success with it from my customers. In addition, their metal control has Soy, and their Oxidizer has mineral salts as well so it also leads to a pleasant feeling.

A 3rd alternative is to get a Bromine Generator - effectively a salt water system for spas. It utilizes Sodium Bromide (a lot of it), to produce the bromine. As (all) the bromine disinfects, it lets off bromamides - i think that's the correct term - and that contributes to a good portion of the "bromine smell" (as well as the chlorine). With a Bromine Generator, it takes the bromamides and converts it back into bromine - so the smell is effectively eliminated. You can turn the levels of bromine up or down to maintain a good 3 - 5 ppm, and to also get proper levels when you're expecting heavy bather loads (like a party). Because there are no glues and such holding tablets together, the water stays clearer longer, and water changes come about every year or so (instead of 90-120 days). Although you don't have to continually add bromine with the generator, since it makes its own, you still have to maintain proper pH, alkalinity, and calcium hardness levels.

All good alternatives - the final decision will be based on a little more research for the best solution for you including your budget and willingness to "learn" a new chemical system. My preferential order is: Bromine Generator, Brilliance, Baqua, and last on the list would be chlorine or bromine (sold at walmarts, home depots and similar places as well as spa dealers)

Hope that helps.

tom the spa guy

[poollady]

as the title says. are their other products that we can use to sanitize our spa that are not so harsh? We have one in the family that is getting nasty chemical burns from the bromine. It effects nobody else. We do use this spa a ton and need a very good sanitizer. thank you. steve

Try Pristine Blue. It is a good way to sanitize your tub without using harsh chemicals like chlorine or bromine. Go to Pristineblue.com to find a dealer near you.

[turbottt1]

thank you for the responses. We use artic brand bromine called peak boost we were using refresh another artic brand for shock.[ artic spa/artic dealer] We have switched to litehouse brand shock.[ non chlorine super shock] with either product I keep getting this burn.[ bottles don't say whats inside] I mean it looks just like a 3rd degree burn just above my ankle. The product we would like to try must be a great sanitizer because as we have been told we over use our spa. The only other option I guess is to try and see a specialist and figure out what exactly is causing this. I only hope the answer is not , stay out of the spa.

[hottubdan]

Go for the Baquaspa. Make sure you have a dealer who can guide you through, as there is a learning curve. The peroxide is the oxidizer. The sanitizer is called a biguinide. It is an EPA approved sanitizer for spas and pools. We have thousands of users.

[waterbear]

Go for the Baquaspa. Make sure you have a dealer who can guide you through, as there is a learning curve. The peroxide is the oxidizer. The sanitizer is called a biguinide. It is an EPA approved sanitizer for spas and pools. We have thousands of users.

Some basics on bromine chemisty is in order since there seems to be some misinfomation in the previous posts. Chlorine or another oxidizer is NECESSARY to convert the bromine ions to hypobromous acid (the active santizer). The chlorine is immediately used up in this process and does not remain. MPS (potassium monopersulfate, non-chlorine shock) will also convert the bromine into hypobromous acid as will ozone. Brilliance contains MPS instead of chlorine.

To properly use bromine in a spa first you need to establish a bromine bank in the water with sodium bromide then activate it with an oxidizer (chlorine, MPS, or ozone). Tabs in a floater are not enough by themselves. If you want to use the tabs they will help maintain a bromine level with less shocking but are not necessary! When the bromine levels drop you need to shock with chlorine, MPS or turn on the ozone to regenerate the hypobromous acid! If you use chorine none remains, it is converted to hypobromous acid immediately...chlorine is hypochlorous acid and will immediately convert to hypobromous acid in the presence of bromine ions in the water.

Many people exhibit a sensitivity to bromine and it really doesn't matter what oxidizer is used...the sentitivity is to the bromine! Also are your other water paramters in line? If the pH is off any water can become irritating!

As far as alternatives go...Chlorine is usable in a spa and there is a much lower chance of irritattion and it will keep the water properly sanitized with out the drawbacks of biguinide. It is the least expensive way to sanitize a spa....Laundry bleach is an excellent source of chlorine for spa sanitation! Dichlor is also a good choice. It is easierto use than bromine but you need to keep a closer watch on the pH since it is effective over a smaller pH range.

Biguinide (Baquaspa, Revacil, etc.) is an antibacterial that uses hydrogen peroxide as an oxiderer...peroxide is NOT the sanitizer, the biguinide is. It works and is a good choice for people with halogen (bromine and chlorine) sensitivity but it gums up filters and is expensive to use by comparison. It causes the cells of the bacteria to explode and this forms a gunk that is sometimes called 'baquagoo' that collects on the filter and in the spa. Bromine and chlorine actually oxidize or 'burn up' the bacteria so this doesn't happen. If you switch to biguinide you will have to clean your filter much more ofthen and replace it much more often!

Now on to heavy metals (usually called 'minerals' in the literature along with promises of 'chemical free sanitation'...last time I checked copper sulfate and silver nitrate were chemicals!!) Pristine Blue is copper used at a 1 ppm concentration. At this concentration it can cause staining of the spa and the people that use it (green hair). Copper/silver systems such as Nature2 also can cause this and they DO NOT properly sanitize the water. The kill times are very slow for metals and it is recommened that they be used with a residual chlorine level for proper sanitation and fast kill times. Austrailia passed legislation last year requiring all copper/silver products be used with normal chlorine levels and not reduced chlorine levels. If only our own EPA was so diligent at protecting our health!

Boils down to this. If a member of your family has a true bromine sensitivity (and they do happen) I would try chlorine next. If they are sentitive to that also then you only have biguinide left as the only other EPA approved sanitation method!

[Estevan]

Some basics on bromine chemisty is in order since there seems to be some misinfomation in the previous posts. Chlorine or another oxidizer is NECESSARY to convert the bromine ions to hypobromous acid (the active santizer). The chlorine is immediately used up in this process and does not remain. MPS (potassium monopersulfate, non-chlorine shock) will also convert the bromine into hypobromous acid as will ozone. Brilliance contains MPS instead of chlorine.

To properly use bromine in a spa first you need to establish a bromine bank in the water with sodium bromide then activate it with an oxidizer (chlorine, MPS, or ozone). Tabs in a floater are not enough by themselves. If you want to use the tabs they will help maintain a bromine level with less shocking but are not necessary! When the bromine levels drop you need to shock with chlorine, MPS or turn on the ozone to regenerate the hypobromous acid! If you use chorine none remains, it is converted to hypobromous acid immediately...chlorine is hypochlorous acid and will immediately convert to hypobromous acid in the presence of bromine ions in the water.

[Estevan]

Some basics on bromine chemisty is in order since there seems to be some misinfomation in the previous posts. Chlorine or another oxidizer is NECESSARY to convert the bromine ions to hypobromous acid (the active santizer). The chlorine is immediately used up in this process and does not remain. MPS (potassium monopersulfate, non-chlorine shock) will also convert the bromine into hypobromous acid as will ozone. Brilliance contains MPS instead of chlorine.

To properly use bromine in a spa first you need to establish a bromine bank in the water with sodium bromide then activate it with an oxidizer (chlorine, MPS, or ozone). Tabs in a floater are not enough by themselves. If you want to use the tabs they will help maintain a bromine level with less shocking but are not necessary! When the bromine levels drop you need to shock with chlorine, MPS or turn on the ozone to regenerate the hypobromous acid! If you use chorine none remains, it is converted to hypobromous acid immediately...chlorine is hypochlorous acid and will immediately convert to hypobromous acid in the presence of bromine ions in the water.

Most Bromine maintenance instructions imply that you startup with sodium bromide as a "starter" who's amount isn't that critical. You then adjust bromine levels later. But this excellent summary seems to imply that, whenever new oxidizer is added (during shock) it will reactivate all the residual bromine ions. So doesn't the bromine level after any shock shoot up to whatever the maximum is based on the residual bromine bank? (i.e. it's the initial quantity of the sodium bromide that determines the bromine levels for a long time). With today's spas, the ozone system seeme to be wired to produce 24 hours/day, - by this last post, that implies you never need to add bromine - the ozone will keep it continually in it's acid state. True?

[waterbear]

Ozone is an oxidixer so you ar correct in that it will reactivate the bromine bank and keep the bromine levels constant. By adjusting the ozone output you can ajust the level of bromine in the spa. It still might be necessary to 'shock' (not really the proper word but the one commenly used) by adding a stronger oxidizer than the ozone since the amount of ozone used is not that much. How much of the bromine ions in the water are converted to hypobromous acid really depends on the amount of oxidizer added. The bromine bank is an excess of bromine ions that are ready to be converted into sanitizer. Unless you add a way too large quantity of the 'shock' you will not convert all of them.

As far as the amount of soduim bromide added, it's not super critical but the dosing guidlines shoudl be followed. You adust bromine levels (actually hypobromous acid and bromamines) by adding the oxizider and then testing. You cannot test for sodium bromide with test kits that are available. The amount is less critical with 3 step systems that use tabs in a floater since the tabs themselves contain bromine and either chlorine or MPS.

[Giraffe-man]

I would recommend trying Soft Soak or Baqua. It's a little more maintenance, but I've never heard anyone coming away with a rash from it.

[waterbear]

I would recommend trying Soft Soak or Baqua. It's a little more maintenance, but I've never heard anyone coming away with a rash from it.

Biquanide based sanitizers (baqua, soft soak, etc.) have their own unique set of problems, among them much higher maintenance in terms of filter cleaning and filter elelment life, cloudy water issues, burning eyes, and water mold, not to mention the MUCH higher co$t. There is no perfect santizing system but my first choice has always been chlorine with bromine as an alterantive in spas and indoor pools.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Biquanide based sanitizers (baqua, soft soak, etc.) have their own unique set of problems, among them much higher maintenance in terms of filter cleaning and filter elelment life, cloudy water issues, burning eyes, and water mold, not to mention the MUCH higher co$t. There is no perfect santizing system but my first choice has always been chlorine with bromine as an alterantive in spas and indoor pools.

Try using the Eco One system. It is really nice with no bromine or chlorine in the tub while you soak.

[hottubdan]

Try using the Eco One system. It is really nice with no bromine or chlorine in the tub while you soak.

Plus it is not registered with the EPA as a sanitizer.

[waterbear]

Try using the Eco One system. It is really nice with no bromine or chlorine in the tub while you soak.

Right on the eco one website it says that it must be used with an EPA approved sanitizer such as chlorine or bromine! It is mearly an enzyme product of dubious value! If you soak in a tub with eco one and NO chlorine or bromine you are also soaking in a vat of replicating bacteria, viruses, and fungi! BAD ADVICE jim the jim!

[Duck Man]

Jim, doesn't seem like your opinions in this forum are valued. Every time you give advice someone corrects you. hhmmmmmm

[Private Shrink]

I have a 3 week old Sundance Capri (with CD Ozonator) and I've started out with Soft Soak, and will likely transition to BaquaSpa simply because the local dealer carries that and, from what I understand, they are both essentially the same product. We have been quite happy so far, despite some brown guck at the beginning, but before I started up the whole thing, I was considering Cleanwater Blue just from reading about it on the web. I want to keep away from Chlorine or Bromine just because of a fair number of people unhappy with it, but I just wondered if there's a system clearly better (no pun intended) than this. It's been suggested that my ozonator is working against my system...is that true? A couple of people have suggested that they can smell hydrogen peroxide, but both my wife and I don't notice smell or any other bothersome problems. On the other hand, I don't want to spend more money than I have to. As for maintenance, once a week I balance everything and put in the recommended stuff. Not really too tough. I have seen some coagulated gummy stuff by the filter, and this filter is not to be cleaned, rather thrown away after about 6 months. Any helpful suggestions or opinions? thanks.

[Private Shrink]

Another product you could try is Spa Magic. I use in my 300 gallon hot tub and it works very well. It is an all natural enzyme based water treatment that will eliminate the bacteria and filter out organic contaminants. If you are using your spa a lot, you will need to clean your filter weekly (rince off the filter). My wife and I use our spa 3 to 4 times a week and only use a water clarifier where the water starts getting cloudy. For heavier use, Spa Magic is compatable with chlorine and bromine, so you can use a shock treatment if needed.

With regard to the filter, the manufacturers instructions are VERY clear that the filter should never be cleaned or even rinsed, simply replaced in about 6 months. They even threw in an extra filter because of some early procedural hassles, so I have another new one in the wings. Is it possible that they just want the money for a new filter? The instruction book itself reiterates that, for Sundance Spas, do NOT rinse filter. Got me curious and confused now.

[williamk]

With regard to the filter, the manufacturers instructions are VERY clear that the filter should never be cleaned or even rinsed, simply replaced in about 6 months. They even threw in an extra filter because of some early procedural hassles, so I have another new one in the wings. Is it possible that they just want the money for a new filter? The instruction book itself reiterates that, for Sundance Spas, do NOT rinse filter. Got me curious and confused now.

I can't speak for Sundance Spas, but I found several websites that recommend that the filter be washed with a garden hose at a 45 degree angle to wash the scum and dirt particles out of the folds. I fact, there are products availabe to automate the cleaning process. They say not to use excessive pressure or do not place in a dish washer. Leasure Time has a product called Filter Clean which is made for cleaning the oils, dirt , etc out of the filter. So does Spa Magic. My filter costs $45 to replace, so I plan on using it till it tears or no longer filters properly.