Switching From Sand To De For Filtration

[miandsh2000]

i am considering switching from sand to DE for my filtration. can i use my same filter tank or do i need to get something special?

[miandsh2000]

sorry, meant to say pump - not filter.

just not sure if the de filter needs a higher HP pump or not.

[jeff grotte]

i am considering switching from sand to DE for my filtration. can i use my same filter tank or do i need to get something special?

switch to glass media from ecosmarte planet friendly inc. 1-800-ION SWIM the glass will filter as good as de and you will note need to always add de and you can use the same filter tank if it is the right size for the pool this media is on the industry leading edge.

[WetScapes]

I have switched to element/cartridge filters on all my pools. Less maintenance and more efficient than sand.

And no back washing, so no loss of salt, since all my pools are saline.

Just think... low maintanance.

[Brulan1]

I have switched to element/cartridge filters on all my pools. Less maintenance and more efficient than sand.

And no back washing, so no loss of salt, since all my pools are saline.

Just think... low maintanance.

Yes but the cartridge takes alot longer to filter and a pain in the ars to take out and rinse off everyday or so especially when your water is really bad. I would figure cartridge to be more maintanance than sand. De is the most maintanance but the most efficient/fast filter. The older the sand the better up untill a point (5-7yrs.). The cartridge has to be changed once a year and sometimes 2 years with an acid wash and depending on what it is.

[waterbear]

Yes but the cartridge takes alot longer to filter and a pain in the ars to take out and rinse off everyday or so especially when your water is really bad. I would figure cartridge to be more maintanance than sand. De is the most maintanance but the most efficient/fast filter. The older the sand the better up untill a point (5-7yrs.). The cartridge has to be changed once a year and sometimes 2 years with an acid wash and depending on what it is.

You really shouldn't post when you don't know what you are talking about. It is not fair to the people looking for answers to their problems!

Cartridge filters filter more efficiently than sand. Sand will filter to about 60 microns. Carts to about 20 microns. and DE to abut 6 microms. You are right that sand filtes are the easiest maintenance (must feel good to be finally right about something!)

Old sand does not filter as well as new sand because the erosion of the water on the sand rounds off the facets that actually catch the dirt!

Where did you ever come up with needing to wash a cart daily?!?!?!....You really don't need to wash the cart until the filter pressure has risen 8-10 psi and with a properly sized filter this will take months! (however, monthly cleaning will make maintenance much easier since it will take much less time to clean the cart if you do it often and not wait for it to get really plugged up with stuff)

A properly maintained cart will last about 5 years, not one, and should be soaked in a degreaser to remove organics yearly. Acid washing will shorten the life of a cart and should only be done after soaking in a degreaser since acid will cause the organics to hardend into a cement like substance and ruin the cart. You only acid wash if there is scale buildup on the cart!.

Carts actually come pretty close to DE in their filtering ability and are much less work!

[Michael Silvester]

Calm Down Waterbear...You might blow a gasket

Sand Filter = 60 microns (With sand)

Cartridge = 20 microns

D.E Filter = 6 Microns

For the newbies out there the smaller the number the better

the filter is at picking up smaller particles.

To me the choice is simple, and this is my personal

opinion only.

I would go with a sand filter and fill it with something

like zeolite or zelbrite (volcanic medium) as this will

filter to about 3 microns according to some manufacturers.

Combine that high quality filtering with the ease of backwashing

and your set!

Regards,

Michael Silvester

[waterbear]

Calm Down Waterbear...You might blow a gasket

Sand Filter = 60 microns (With sand)

Cartridge = 20 microns

D.E Filter = 6 Microns

For the newbies out there the smaller the number the better

the filter is at picking up smaller particles.

To me the choice is simple, and this is my personal

opinion only.

I would go with a sand filter and fill it with something

like zeolite or zelbrite (volcanic medium) as this will

filter to about 3 microns according to some manufacturers.

Combine that high quality filtering with the ease of backwashing

and your set!

Regards,

Michael Silvester

Zeobrite (zeollite filter medium), the next great hope, or is that hoax? some facts:

While it is true that zeolite has 'pores' in it that are micron sized the actual grains are bigger than sand grains for the most part. The rougher surface of the zeolite might catch a few extra particles so this should be a break even but water is NOT going to filter through it. In a pressurized ( or a non pressurized for that matter) filter water is going to take the path of least resistance, which would be AROUND the grains and not through them.

If you want fine filering and water polishing with a sand filter there is a very old trick of adding a bit of DE to the skimmer (enough to increase your filter pressure about 1 psi).. You are now filtering THROUGH DE. (Sand filters work better when the sand is slightly dirty so you have'dirtied' the sand). This DE will wash out on the next backwash but it is a simple and cheap solutions. Let's look at the costs. 50 lbs of filter sand cost between $6 and $10 dollars in most places. Zeolite filter medium weighs less for the same volume so approximately 1/2 the weight is needed. A 50 l b bag of the stuff goes for beteen $30 and $60 dollars so the equivalent 100 lbs of sand would cost you beteeen $12 and $20 dollars. Now let's throw in that bag of DE powder.A 5 lb bag goes for about $7 dollars (enough to last for quite a long time with a sand filter) and you can get a 25 lb bag for about $25 dollars. At the highest prices for 200 lb sand we are now up to $65 dollars with enough DE to literally last for years. The Zeolite media will cost in the neighborhood of around $100.

Now, let's get down to the nitty gritty of ammonia scavaging. This is the REAL reason to use Zeolite, right?

Well Zeolite has been used in fresh water aquariums for years for this very purpose and any aquairist can tell you it's ammonia scavaging properties are quickly depleted!. But it can be regenerated! You have to mix ujp a concentrated salt solution (which is why it is not used in salt water aquariums and is probably of limited benifit in pools with s SWG) and to save time in the cleaning process you might use this regeneration solution to mix up the sand bed cleaner solution so you only have to do this once instead of twice every 6 months! (remember, those tiny pores in the zeolite will clog up). You now have an acidic salt solution to dispose of. Backwash it into the lawn? Down the sewer? Into a drum to get carted away as hazardous waste?

(If you are maintaining a proper chlorine level for your CYA level and shock whenever your combined chlorine is above .5 ppm then what is the big deal about ammonia scavaging anyway?)

Now let's look at deep cleaning a sand filter (and yes they need it maybe yearly or so). You open the filter to expose the sand, stick a garden hose into it and turn it on. The sand will loosen and the dirt will overflow out of the filter. CAREFULLY use something like a broom handle to break up clumps and channeling (be very careful not to damage the laterals). When the water is running clear you are done, REassemble the filter and backwash again and recharge with DE and you are good to go. IF you notice a scale builup while doing this THEN it is time to break out the acid filter cleaner and clean your sand bed chemically.

Personally, I have a single element, oversized cartridge filter on my pool for the best compromise between water polishing and ease of maintenance. My filter would probably take over a year (and I have a 9 month swim season and the pool is not closed for the other 3) before I got any appreciable rise in filter pressure. I do clean my cart monthly however to make the maintenance go fast. It takes me between 15-20 minutes a month to open my filter, take out the dirty cart, drop in a clean one (I have 2 and rotate them), close the filter, clean out the pump basket, and hose off the dirty cart. I soak one cart in the spring and one in the fall so each get their yearly over night soak. I admit it's a bit more work than a sand filter but the water is almost as polished as a DE filter and THOSE are a lot of work. They really should be broken down to be cleaned, not backwashed or bumped but I'll save that for another thread!

[Michael Silvester]

Hey waterbear,

Your put up a great argument

Regards,

Michael Silvester

[dynamictiger]

This topic has wandered off as they invariably do.

Sand filters are usually okay for most applications - if they are correctly sized to the flow rate. Unfortunately manufacturers have been having some sort of competition to increase the flow rate through the sand which means even manufacturers flow rates can no longer be relied upon .

Correctly sized and installed a sand filter should produce filtrate with a rating between 20 and 40 microns. It is possible by slowing the flow rate down to get 10 microns out of sand.

Enough has been said about cartridge filters, I do not need to make comments on this.

D.E. filters claim a filter rate of nominal 1 micron. Again this is dependant on flow rate the typical flow rate through a DE filter being around 1 - 2 usgpm/sqft. This information can be used to ascertain whether you need to change your pump or not.

[jeff grotte]

This topic has wandered off as they invariably do.

Sand filters are usually okay for most applications - if they are correctly sized to the flow rate. Unfortunately manufacturers have been having some sort of competition to increase the flow rate through the sand which means even manufacturers flow rates can no longer be relied upon .

Correctly sized and installed a sand filter should produce filtrate with a rating between 20 and 40 microns. It is possible by slowing the flow rate down to get 10 microns out of sand.

Enough has been said about cartridge filters, I do not need to make comments on this.

D.E. filters claim a filter rate of nominal 1 micron. Again this is dependant on flow rate the typical flow rate through a DE filter being around 1 - 2 usgpm/sqft. This information can be used to ascertain whether you need to change your pump or not.

did anybody look at the fist response about the Crushed Glass in a sand filter.

That was on topic, and will out preform a DE filter in ease of use and cost to operate.

The problems with Zeolites is that they are a natural Mineral and every different source preforms differently, the biggest problem being that it is a very dusty product and most installers will not back wash after ever bag installed in the filter, second problem is that different sources dissolve in water and third is that it is porous and algea finds a home in the pores

The glass in a sand filter will install with out backwashing before use and it can go for many weeks before backwashing, and the it comes clean very quickley

The neat thing about glass is that it will filter Iron better than DE.

[waterbear]

This topic has wandered off as they invariably do.

Sand filters are usually okay for most applications - if they are correctly sized to the flow rate. Unfortunately manufacturers have been having some sort of competition to increase the flow rate through the sand which means even manufacturers flow rates can no longer be relied upon .

Correctly sized and installed a sand filter should produce filtrate with a rating between 20 and 40 microns. It is possible by slowing the flow rate down to get 10 microns out of sand.

Enough has been said about cartridge filters, I do not need to make comments on this.

D.E. filters claim a filter rate of nominal 1 micron. Again this is dependant on flow rate the typical flow rate through a DE filter being around 1 - 2 usgpm/sqft. This information can be used to ascertain whether you need to change your pump or not.

did anybody look at the fist response about the Crushed Glass in a sand filter.

That was on topic, and will out preform a DE filter in ease of use and cost to operate.

The problems with Zeolites is that they are a natural Mineral and every different source preforms differently, the biggest problem being that it is a very dusty product and most installers will not back wash after ever bag installed in the filter, second problem is that different sources dissolve in water and third is that it is porous and algea finds a home in the pores

The glass in a sand filter will install with out backwashing before use and it can go for many weeks before backwashing, and the it comes clean very quickley

The neat thing about glass is that it will filter Iron better than DE.

Iron is not fiterable unless it is precipitated. If it is ionic then you need an ion exchange medium like 'green sand' or a synthetic. If you are talking about precipitated rust then any fine filter mediun can do it (this usually means carts or DE).

[mudrider]

hate to take the topic away, but can you add a cart to the sand filter?? i have heard of sand being washed back into the pool, and i know the cart will prevent that. will it hurt the system to use both at the same time?? going through the sand filter then the cart before back to pool?

[waterbear]

Really the only time sand will wash back into the pool is if you have a broken lateral or if you have a pump that is way oversized for the filter (bigger pumps are usually NOT better!)