Installing Tile Over Gunite/shotcrete

[matt]

When it comes to installing tile on the water line after the gunite/shotcrete phase of pool construction, is the tile installed just like bathroom tile over the gunite/shotcrete surface?

I'm interested in doing this phase of the construction myself, since I've tiled bathrooms before and it seem easy enough.

[finishguy]

When it comes to installing tile on the water line after the gunite/shotcrete phase of pool construction, is the tile installed just like bathroom tile over the gunite/shotcrete surface?

I'm interested in doing this phase of the construction myself, since I've tiled bathrooms before and it seem easy enough.

Its easy if the shell (gunite) is done properly. If your using coping stones its easy. The trickiest part will be the mud. Some guys just slap on some thin set and put it on. To do it properly you need to put some mud up to make the shell good and straight, thats the hard part. Then thinset or mud the tile on, that should be the easy part. If you have any skills its not hard at all. Go slow and you will be ok. When your laying the tile make sure the mud is a little thicker than wet. If your having a cantilever deck its not going to be so easy, but its not hard either. The problem with this is that if the tile isnt just like the deck guy needs it, hes leaving and your redoing the tile.

[matt]

I appreciate the reply. I see your point about building up a mud surface to apply the thin set on. The interior will be Pebble-Tec, and I believe that's a 1/2 inch. Could I just simply put 1/4 thin set, and attach the 1/4 inch tile? The decking surrounding the pool will most likely be concrete slab, and I figured I'd add the tile after it is poured which will give me a better reference to work from.

Does that sound correct?

Thanks again!

[ANG]

It dosen't matter what the mud base is. When they mud the pool they will float the pebble tech to the tiles.

[finishguy]

I appreciate the reply. I see your point about building up a mud surface to apply the thin set on. The interior will be Pebble-Tec, and I believe that's a 1/2 inch. Could I just simply put 1/4 thin set, and attach the 1/4 inch tile? The decking surrounding the pool will most likely be concrete slab, and I figured I'd add the tile after it is poured which will give me a better reference to work from.

Does that sound correct?

Thanks again!

Ok to start I'm not a tile pro by any means. I am a plaster contractor so I'm not gonna say this is the only way to do it. When I install tile on a pool that is going to have a cantilever deck like exposed agg or a concrete slab like your getting, the tile goes on before the deck. Thats why I said earlier that its a little trickier. Your going to have to find the highest spot on the beam of the shell. Start there, the tile will have to be around a half inch higher that the beam. You must get it very level and it cannot be wavy. You will have to put up a mud bed and thats the hardest part. Its the best way to get the tile straight. I put the mud bed on the whole pool before the tile goes on and get it as nice as you can. Applying the tile should be very easy if the mud has been put on nice. They will be putting the forms over the tile for the deck so it has to be done properly or you will have problems with the deck. Do not worry at all about the thickness of the tile line being half inch thick. Its nice when its very thin but thats not usually the case, unless the shell is perfect. One inch or more is no problem if thats what it takes to get the walls straight. YOU MUST START AT THE HIGHEST PART OF THE SHELL AND MAKE SURE ITS LEVEL ALL THE WAY AROUND and you will be OK.

[4serendipity]

The correct method is to install a mud base around the perimeter of the pool - after the deck is poured. The mud base is absolutely required if you wat the tile to look good. If you just slap some thin set right on the gunite the finshed tile job will look like you installed it with your feet. You need to do each wall section at once pulling string lines and setting depth markings with a hand held level to get the wall prep as close to perfect as possible. Any variations in the mud will be painfully obvious once you have the tile up and the grout in place.

The mud you put up will need to be floated with a sponge float to get it rough for the thin set to grab to during the tile installation. When you start the mud base and tile you will always start from the skimmer mouth and work your way out. FYI it should take a highly skilled tile setter and cement mason two to three days for prep and one to two days to set the tile depending on the style of tile you have chosen.

I hope this information is helpful.

S

[riley3503]

Basically is tiling a pool is nothing more than tiling a huuuuge bathroom. The only thing is that it is outdoors and i would start early enough but not too early and when the weather forcasts are good.

It will take a few days and it has to dry as well!

[B.A.P.B.]

OK?OBVIOSLEY,NOT ONE OF YOU PEOPLE HAVE ANY POOL CONSTRUCTION EXPERIANCE? AND FOR THESE OPIONS AND COMMENTS TO BE BROADCASTED FOR THE WORLD TO READ,WHEN THERE SO FRKN WRONG,ITS SAD AND MAKES US POOL CONTRACTORS LOOK BAD.

1ST:U always shoot the shell,then pregrade around it,Then "TILE"PLUMB"ELECTRICAL,AND FORM THE DECK BEFORE you ever pour the concrete deck.

2ND"After the shell is shot,you must find the highest spot on the shell beam,THEN:Figure out your "PITCH"MEANING GRADE-SLOPE-,PITCHEN BACK FROM THE POOL BEAM,AND THIS REQUIERS KNOWEN WHAT YOUR COPING IS GOING TO BE,Whether cantileaver,cap tiles,brick,etc;...And the amount of footage from the pool water line to the outside deck finish or amount of feet between the pool to the lanai?Thats the most crucial part,becuase if your pitched to high,water will flow over your drain between the deck and lanai and can flood to the house doors or the deck pitch can end up to steep and look stupid,or too low,whitch is just as bad,So?

STEP 3" After shell is shot,pregrade completed,U use a water level or transite or in my 18 year experiance-my eyeball,and find the high spot of the pool shell.If the layout guys did it right,followen the bluprint,then it should only be within a 1/2 inch to an inch below the grade your looking for.

4th:The grade your looking for is "LEVEL"!!!!!!!! CANT SAY THAT ENOUGH!! BUT YOU WANT LEVEL AND THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF PITCH UPON COMPLETION OF THE TILE JOB.SO? THE FEET OF DECK FROM POOL WATERLINE,FOOTAGE TO LANAI,ETC; ALL PLAY THERE PART IN THIS CRUCIAL PROCESS,AS WELL AS THE COPING YOUR GOING TO USE AND HOW THICK IT WILL BE?(CANTELEAVER-2 N 1/2 IN.//BRICK COPING 3 AND 1/2 INCH/// ETC;.)

5TH:so heres how we tile a inground concrete swimming pool,whether gunite(whitch is crap)Or shotcrete shells.

You figure out your grades and pitches and your high spot off the shell,we use 6 inch boards,whitch are and we call "homex"dOWN HERE IN TAMPA FLORIDA.yOU SET YOUR MARK ON THE SHELL AT THE HIGHEST SPOT,AND USEN 6 inch homex or masonite or whatever? If you need to be 1 inch above the beam,them your mark would be 5 inches below the beam,so that when you nail your homex to the marks or chalk lines,that you will be maken all around,the whole inside pool perimator walls,youll have 5inches below the beam to nail to and an inch above the beam to mudd.

In short:You find your high spot,you find your grade,you measure down usen the whith of whatever material boards your usen,and after this you have a perfectley level pool beam around your whole pool

then you mixup some grey portland cement and either trowel or shovel it out along the beam behind the form board you just nailed up ontop the pool beam."BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A WEDGE OF MUDD FROM THE TOP OF YOUR FORM BOARD GOING DOWN AT AN ANGLE TO THE BEAM",,WHITCH YOU TROWEL OUT AFTER DUMPING THE LITTLE BEAD OF MUDD ON THE BEAM.

ONCE THATS DRY,YOU PULL YOUR HOMEX(OR BOARDS)OFF,NOW YOUR POOL IS LEVEL,NOW YOU NEED TO DO A FACE PARGE OF MUD,FROM YOUR TOPLINE DOWN THE POOL WALL 6-10 INCHES,OR MORE,DEPENDING ON YOUR TILE APPLICATION,

(FACE PARGE)Means you use stucco concrete and trowelit to the top face of the beam and use a level and make it plumb,scrape,rub,float,whatever.when finished and its setup,give it a lite spongen to smooth it out and seal off any air bubbles still inside the mudd.

(I SHOULD SAY THAT THIS IS THE WAY YOU ONLY INSTALL SWIMMING POOL TILE ON AN INGROUND CONCRET POOL,IF YOUR INSTALLING MATT TILE OR 6X6 W/T CANTELEAVER COPING OR BRICK,BUT WITH BRICK YOU POUR THE WHOLE BEAM LEVEL AND FLAT ATLEAST 6INCHES OUT FROM POOL)

nOW WITH JUST 6X6 SINGLE BULLNOSE TILES OR 6X6 TILES ON A ROUND POOL DESIGHN,YOU CAN JUST SLAP MUDD ON THE BACKS OF THE TILES AND STICK THEM TO THE WALL AND MOVE THEM IN OR OUT AS NEEDED,After your marks are shot and set.

HOPE THIS STRAITENS YOU PEOPLE OUT?

BOTTOM LINE IS,NO HOMEOWNER OR ANYONE THAT HAS NO KNOWLAGE OF BUILDING OR TILEN A INGROUND CONCRETE SWIMMING POOL SHOULD NEVER THINK OR TRY TO DO IT THEMSELVES,THERES ALOT OF ELEVATIONS AND PITCHES AND LEVELNESS AND PLUMBNESS AND SO MUCH MORE INVOLVED.

THANX,N GOD BLESS!

[cwalker1960]

Regardless of what you are using for coping , be it brick, stone , cantilever or something else , the tile always goes on first. While it is possible to do some minor adjusting to the height of the tile, it's mostly predetermined by the skimmers and the pool beam. Whoever formed the pool and set the skimmers should have already taken into account the grade for the deck and coping. Several things should be checked. The highest place on the beam should be slightly lower than the skimmer/s. I try to keep the skimmer throat as level as possible. The top of the tile should be level or slightly higher than the highest place on the beam. Nail boards in place to set the tile on. Use a water level to set the boards. I use 3/4 inch Styrofoam cut in 4" strips for tile boards but a lot of tile setters use expansion joints. Doesn't really matter as long as it's wide enough to set the tile on top of and flexible enough to bend around the curves of the pool. Don't try to just stick tile on the pool wall and hope that it's level. If it's a straight wall pool , pull strings on each wall and lay the tile to the string. Make sure tiles are level vertically as well. On a free form pool , you can pretty much just go with the flow unless a radius is obviously out of whack. On a straight wall, you may have to do some browning out before setting the tile. the strings will let you know this.Some people use mortar for browning the beam out ,I always use sand and portland cement. guess it doesn't matter , just how I was taught.Once the tile is set and tight, you can brown out the top of the beam with sand and cement as well if you want everything to look pretty. Never really seemed where it mattered as something is going on top of it anyhow.