Jump to content

FULL FOAM VS NOT


Guest mooser 1937

Recommended Posts

Just for you, Roger, when I do my test, I will use the exact same cover on both. I'll even put a thermal blanket on both.

Last time I checked Sundance used the Ideal covers. Does anyone know if they are still using them?

What is the "Ideal" cover?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 60
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

It's a brand...... or, the name of the manufacturing company

:P I kinda figured it was... :D

Just wondering if there's a site to visit or if it (Ideal- brand name) really is different from any of the other standard covers. I'll see if I can find it... getting better at the computer now. Thanks Dr. Spa! :wub:

Update:http://www.spacare.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=285#prices

Found it. Was just curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In 2000, we had an ice storm come through NE Texas. Power lines went down and the electricity went out. This was on a Sunday.

I have a customer that owned a HotSpring Sovereign (Full-Foam) running off of a 110v outlet. His water temperature was set on 102*. On Thursday, he took a thermometer out and checked the water temperature of his spa. It was 94*. After 4 days of below freezing temperatures and no electricity, his fully-foamed HotSpring Spa only dropped EIGHT degrees. His family bathed in it as it was the only hot water they had available.

This is a real-world customer experience, not some theoretical hypothesis cooked up in a testing laboratory. That should put this to bed once and for all. :D

Terminator

Ya know, I have been through Texas during a "terrible" snow storm. It was like childs play for us to drive in, even with a full load of spas. The only problem we had was there was no road crew to remove the little bit of snow and ice. The funny drivers in Texas, who don't know how to drive on that stuff were all over the sides of the highway.

The cars were everywhere strewn along the ditches.

Below freezing, means below +32 degrees F. It has been getting that cold here in October.

I have seen plenty of frozen Hot Spring heaters and cracked pumps in Colorado.

I just wanted to know if Sundance is still using Ideal covers? Any of you experts know the answer?

:rolleyes:

In the late Fall of 1995 we had wet snow take out the power to much of the Denver Suburb of Lakewood. Many of the homes were without power for two weeks. It is an old town with a lot of overhead power lines. Sort of like Brooklyn, NY.

The company I worked for sold both full foam and the thermal lock spas. We also had about 15,000 spa service customers in the Denver area. We had so much frozen spa repairs that I think our service guys were getting sick of replaceing so many parts. None of the thermal locked spa in that area had freeze damage. ZERO. All of the spas with the exposed equipment box, full foam, with the equipment stuck in a little box out front, had freeze damage.

That was when I started my research on spa engineering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just never good enough if its a HotSpring, is it Jim?

I know the answer to your question about Ideal covers and Sundance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just never good enough if its a HotSpring, is it Jim?

I know the answer to your question about Ideal covers and Sundance.

Chas; Have you ever thought about anything that you do? That there are better ways of being?

Just because, you have sold Hot Spring spas for so long, does not negate the truth.

Life is more than some old belief system, and wanting to make something true that, really, is not true.

In the end we all die and it is the actions that we do, that define us.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to CHANGE!

I'll just call Ideal and ask them.

This would certainly clear this up and end this debate once and for all IF IT WERE TRUE . Jim if Phoenix who actually makes the spas you sell can get you to pay more for them, My hats to them for you buying into it. Because at a retail level the other makers charge the consumer more for full foam if they offer both. It is simply cheaper to build a TP spa than a FF and please do not belittle the process and make it sound like something it is not. In certain conditions they both will perform well. But Jim please if the guys with the most dollars, Hot Springs, D-1, Marquis, Jacuzzi found it was better to build the TP style they would do in a heartbeat they sell many more spas than "most" others, they are known for backing up their warranty's and if would be be beneficial to the consumer and themselves they would go that way. Interesting to me is that all of the older and more established makers are over whelming of the FF design, why because over time it has proven itself to be the best. Not that TP can not work effectively also.

Just for your education a thermal pane spa is not a thermally closed or thermally sealed spa. The full foam sales people often try to equat the fully insulated thermally sealed spas that cost a lot more to produce, as "thermal pane".

Although a good themal pane spa is better than a full foam spa, it is not a thermally sealed spa. I hope that clears it up for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for your education a thermal pane spa ...

Although a good themal pane spa is better than a full foam spa, it is not a thermally sealed spa. I hope that clears it up for you.

Yes, now we know exactly what your opinion is. Thanks.

You speak of change, Jim. Why not try this - just receive this as an honest offer of help:

"I offer a Thermally sealed spa for sale. They work great in cold climates - I know because I have sold them here in a very cold area for years and our customers report excellant results."

See? Tells the truth about your product, lets the reader know right off that they are reading the opinion of a person who sells this item and has years of experience doing so, and that you think very highly of your product. This works. Give it a try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Wow, what a debate this one has been! I'm no physic major or spa salesman or anything like that, but here is what i have found out. A bit of history first: I own an "Arctic Spa" which i have just purchased, several personal friends own this brand as well. Other friends of mine and relatives on the other hand, own other good quality full foamed spas. Before i bought mine, i talked to all these people about thier operating costs, how much they use it, what time of year, all that stuff and made a decision on hearing from the CONSUMER and NOT the SALESPERSON. You know what i found from all of them? The operating costs were ALL AROUND THE SAME, based on similar sized tubs, usage and temperature. I live in Northern Ontario, so don't even complain about cold and how they work when it's just below 32 degrees . . . it's not uncommon for it to go down to -40C (same as -40F for those that don't know) and i've even seen -70C on a few rare occasions, but it does happen. So by everyone here who has a tub that i've talked to, the full foam vs non full both work equally as well in the cold weather. Non full may be easier to find leaks, full foam helps with added support, you can go on and on comparing pros and cons of each equally. I made my decision on a tub based on the seats, jets, company, warranty, dealer, how well the tub fit my family needs just to name a few. My dealer NEVER bashed the competition, he stated why he though his insulation method was better but chose NOT to speak low of the full foam, just gave me the pros of his brand. Had he bashed other companies, he would not have made the sale as i would have walked away and never came back. I want his facts, not his feelings on other companies. Also, it appears that Jim the Jim is a salesperson for arctic spas. It's a good thing you weren't my salesman, because i would not be enjoying my arctic spa . . . you will probably chase more people away by bashing the full foam, calling them "archaic" etc. Simply inform us of your options. That's all we want when we are looking for a tub. I've been welcomed by other Arctic spa dealers to this board after i mentioned my purchase, and i've never seen them on here bashing full foam or other companies, thankfully most seem to be like this. It's nice to see you believe in your product, Jim the Jim, and great to see you support it, but you will do better for your business and reputation by giving facts of your brand and not by bashing other brands, they are all great and what it comes down to is personal preference. Hopefully we can put an end to this full vs non debate and like most said, they work pretty much the same as long as it is a QUALITY company (D1, HS, Arctic, etc) no matter what the option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, it appears that Jim the Jim is a salesperson for arctic spas. It's a good thing you weren't my salesman, because i would not be enjoying my arctic spa . . . you will probably chase more people away by bashing the full foam, calling them "archaic" etc. Simply inform us of your options. That's all we want when we are looking for a tub.

Ummmm no actualy Jim sells another brand that he purchases from another company and modifys to fit his style, and what he thinks is the best. And I guess with his knowledge this could be a good thing if he wasn't so arogent.

We have been telling Jim for years to not shove his opinion down our throat and he will gain more of our respect, but it hasn't seemed to work. To him we are all idiots and he is god. Whether we are smarter or not don't seem to matter, he's still smarter, just ask him!

I offered my PR services but he denied and called me an idiot, or uneducated or whatever it was. He's been a bit quieter of late and his sales have probably gone up. Maybe he will get the hint. Nawwww never mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummmm no actualy Jim sells another brand that he purchases from another company and modifys to fit his style, and what he thinks is the best. And I guess with his knowledge this could be a good thing if he wasn't so arogent.

We have been telling Jim for years to not shove his opinion down our throat and he will gain more of our respect, but it hasn't seemed to work. To him we are all idiots and he is god. Whether we are smarter or not don't seem to matter, he's still smarter, just ask him!

I offered my PR services but he denied and called me an idiot, or uneducated or whatever it was. He's been a bit quieter of late and his sales have probably gone up. Maybe he will get the hint. Nawwww never mind.

I do not modify another brand of spa. Our spas are build from the ground up to my design specifications, using the Phoenix molds. You do not know much at all about our products. The factory workers all talk about our spas as being more difficult to build, because of all the extras we put in them.

Roger you just need to learn to read what I say, and not put in your own interpretation. If I tell you, that you "don't understand something" from your responses, I can tell that you don't? That is all I have ever said over and over to you, yet you keep thinking that I am calling you names.

My PR is just fine. I just don't believe in letting falshoods run rampent as if they were true. Full Foam is archaic in terms of the spa industry. If the spa industry is less than 30 years old, and full foam is just about that old, then it is archaic. Most other industries have changed their programs as the technology changes.

It is a matter of economics. It is simply a lot cheaper, and much more profitiable, to use foam to hold up a thin flimsy shell, so the myth keeps on being told to the uneducated consumers who fall for sales pitches. Full foam is really, very bad for consumers, especially as the spa ages and it needs repairs. It is really bad when the power goes out or the GFCI trips and the equipment freezes. Have you ever dug out a full foam spa to repair leaks? It also uses more electricity than a true "thermally closed" spa. So, why are they still around after 30 years? It is because consumers do not take the time to find out what they are buying and spa companies really do not want you to know the truth, because it cuts in to the profits.

Those who understand what I am talking about, the smart ones, will do a lot better in their spa choices. Those who are "technically challenged" will fall for sales pitches by nice sales people who probably know less about spas than most shoppers do.

I am not really a sales person, I design spas and talk to people about them. People email me or call me and order a spa. The only companies I bash are the ones that really deserve it, because they lie to consumers constantly.

Arctic is a good product, so are a few others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roger you just need to learn to read what I say, and not put in your own interpretation.

Those who understand what I am talking about, the smart ones, will do a lot better in their spa choices. Those who are "technically challenged" will fall for sales pitches by nice sales people who probably know less about spas than most shoppers do.

I am not really a sales person, I design spas and talk to people about them. People email me or call me and order a spa. The only companies I bash are the ones that really deserve it, because they lie to consumers constantly.

Arctic is a good product, so are a few others.

See what I mean, my opinion means nothing cause I am an one of the unsmart ones (an idiot).

The man will never learn, you know Jim you are just not worth it but I enjoy contraversy so I will continue to argue with you even though I know our opinions are not that varying. But you will never ever hear me admit that because you are the most arogent, condesending man I have ever had the displeasure of not meeting.

Guess what media we use to test for leaks after a repair in a 700,000 gallon boiler steam recovery system?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...