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Increasing Tub Temp To Over 104


aikennutrition
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What is the deal with this maximum 104? I have owned tubs my life and my new one won;t pass 104!

My bathtub I soak in is hotter than that -and the springs are 114!

How do you increase this temp? The dealers I call will not do it because of the new regulation.

This regulation is absurd!

Is there a portable water heating device or something out there to heat it up without having to boil water?

Thanks.

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What is the deal with this maximum 104?

The most litigious country worldwide.

Spa manufacturers are no longer allowed to make spas that go over 104 degrees.

Not quite sure who came up with this one!

Say it is too dangerous :lol:

Ever wonder why that cup of coffee you picked up on the way to work seems luke warm!

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You can buy a tub with manual temp controls that will get you over 104 or buy a used tub from around 04 05 thats not a Balboa M7 class pack. Then you can mod it. Up to 05, Jacuzzi and Sundance tubs have a jumper to have the temp hit 110. So if your looking new and want your temp over 104 your going to spend a lot of time and effort to mod your board.

As like everything now days we have to be protected from ourselves apparently <_<

and of course a lot of these rules were created so stupid people(otherwise eliminated by natural selection)can survive. Just my opinion

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I unfortunately am not purchasing a spa.

Already have it - it is a Sundance Solo.

Love the spa...hate that I can't get it past 104.

Used to spa every day..now never - and I am not happy.

It is just too cold for me.

Alcohol and cigarette are legal ..but we can't heat our spas past 104(which for me is very healthy)

Doesn't make sense to me. <_<

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  • 10 years later...
On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2007 at 5:53 PM, aikennutrition said:

Is there a portable water heating device or something out there to heat it up without having to boil water?

I was just reading a little about this myself, but felt like getting into a hot tub instead, so I boiled some water! There are portable electric hot plates you can boil water with too.  It took me 20 quarts (5 gallons) of water that I heated in a couple of stock pots (since I didn't want to fill one that full) to warm a so-called hot tub to 106 from 104. That's a 190 gallon tub that was not quite full, and it took over half an hour in 60 degree weather to go back down to 104.  I also noticed that after it was at 105 it would feel warmer if I kept the jets on circulating more of the hot water than letting it be still.  I guess that's one advantage of having a smaller tub, and it felt much better starting at a temp at least two degrees warmer (this doesn't sound like much, but the thing would be cooling down from 104 otherwise, which isn't hot to begin with).  I figure dumping hot water in there may work out to me changing all the water less often too (when I'd have to reheat the whole tub), since I'm adding some fresh water in the meantime, and it won't get saturated with chemicals as soon in that case (maybe I'll only have to change it out half as often, or maybe never, so I don't think it will be a big deal, resource wise, to boil water for this regularly). I could keep that going longer, by heating more water on the stove while I sat in the tub, but half an hour was fine (well maybe I'd do that in winter, or start by adding more hot water then). This is more like old fashioned hot tubbin'... "in my day we had to carry boiling water uphill in the snow"... still works though.

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Now that you mention it, there are some topics here for instance (since I looked). By the way, what I said about using boiling water wasn't quite what it could have been. Today I tried it again with the same amount of water and higher heat actually. The tub went up to 108 and stayed there for 15 min, then was at 107 for over 30 min, and was still at 106 an hour later (same temp outside as last time). I didn't quite have the water boiling in the pots when I used them before, just bubbling a bit (and this time both were around 210 before I took them off the hot plates). So I could probably use this 5 gallon method all year and keep it nice, like a real hot tub, for at least half an hour. Besides, I've sat in much hotter bath tubs (where it stings your cold ass to sit down, so having a spa at 108 that's around 10 to 20 degrees cooler than a hot bathtub isn't unsafe in my opinion, and I don't see how anyone survives taking a bath if it is—well, I'd imagine that nobody takes a 104 degree bath anyway—it's like a cruel joke for what hot tubs cost, and I'm surprised anyone buys a large one now, but that's okay if you like it this way, just saying).

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I live in South Florida so I'm not sure this is an option for everyone. I used to like my soaks @ 106 and now prefer them @ 103. Anyway, I would set the spa to 104, cover it and run on high speed, jets off for about 20 minutes starting at @ 100. The heat created by the pump and the 20 min run would raise the temp to my 106 easily. Not my current practice and I totally get the frustration of not having a hotter hot tub. In all cases be careful with boiling water (yikes)! Kinda takes away from the spontaneity of a spa but at least you're getting your hotter water.

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Well you know, regulations like the 104 degree temperature are made for the kind of people who can't handle boiling water without pouring it over their heads or something... like the person who spilled hot coffee in their lap and blamed whoever made the coffee hot. I understand that some people need a hot tub for physical therapy and might not be up to handling extra weight though. For me I think changing out a few gallons each time helps maintain cleaner water, so I don't mind, because I'd have to change all the water out occasionally anyway, and it always stays at 104 or hotter this way. Unless I need to clean the walls of it extensively (which might only happen if water is not replaced at all) I probably won't have to drain it or wait for it to reheat for 24 hours afterwards. I'll likely do more maintenance on it while the stock pots are heating up too, so that's a matter of spending the time on it upfront instead of all at once later on. I think it's relatively safe, as long you have big enough pots so that they don't spill over on you (along with oven mits and trivets, if necessary). I'd recommend testing out the concept with cooler water if you're unsure about doing that safely (one huge pot could be more cumbersome and the handles would be more likely to break at some point). I wasn't sure how well it would work, but the water temperature evens out quickly after it's poured in there, and I guess the only wrong way to do that would be if someone was sitting in the tub when you poured it. Well I'm not arguing against other suggestions, just saying what worked for me.

It's good to know about what else could work too, thanks for the info. Of course, the general idea behind residential spa codes is that nobody's supposed to modify the equipment to go against what the law says, or use electrical equipment for something it wasn't listed for, technically speaking (especially if anything goes wrong with that). In some cases the modification or misuse of equipment isn't absolutely necessary to get hotter water though. Because I think the difference with taking a hot bath is that the bathtub is not heated to stay at that temperature, even though one could keep adding hot water if they wanted to (they couldn't be physically incapacitated to do that though, and if they were, at least the water would cool down, if hot water had caused it). So I don't think any portable or auxiliary heater would be allowed to be listed for use in spas that kept the water warmer than 104, particularly while someone was in there. Maybe that's a good temperature for a dehydrated drunk person to pass out in for a while (who knows, somebody ruined it though). Then again, now they might be encouraging drunk people (?) to run around with pots of boiling water!

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My guess - and just a guess - is there likely is a calibration screw somewhere, to get to that 104F as each sensor/thermostat/heating has a specification range like automotive connecting rods, not all are EXACTLY the same.

My own 1988 CalSpa has a dial with a line which I turn clockwise for higher temperatures, and this can get too hot if turned too far, but this was way before regulations.  If I needed to go hotter still, I could pull the sensing tube farther away from its tube/cylinder holder in the heater manifold and it would read lower than actual, so would produce more heat to compensate.  Maybe the modern spas with all the complicated electronics have stuff that cannot be over-ridden.

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18 hours ago, Cusser said:

My own 1988 CalSpa has a dial with a line which I turn clockwise for higher temperatures, and this can get too hot if turned too far, but this was way before regulations.

So... what do you think too hot is? Just wondering what that might be for someone who can turn it up.

After doing this a few times, the routine of switching out some water is making its quality nicer to soak in for me (like I figured it might).  The chlorine is low while I'm in it, then high when I'm not, since I add more afterwards, and there's less and less buildup of residue too. Although, if I had a larger tub, I might have wanted to hack it somehow, instead of changing out more than a few gallons for hot water every time (of course, the larger the tub, the more water it takes to change the temp that way, and there are calculations for estimating it somewhere... I happened to have a couple of fat 12 qt stock pots that I used to soak my feet in, so this was simple enough to try out, with 10 quarts in each—I'll just bail a couple buckets out of the tub before hand, then carefully pour the pots along the middle without splashing). The average bathtub is said to hold 58 gallons, so this is around 1/12th of a tub full I'm adding for a similar effect (which is 1/38th of the hot tub volume—perhaps that's a rule of thumb, not sure).

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Ah, I don't know if they are quieter nowdays (it doesn't seem loud to me). I think the water feels warmer with jets on, and the digital thermometer on mine doesn't seem to reflect me adding hot water until I turn them on (I tested it with another thermometer before getting in initially). Apparently a 120 degree cut off is to prevent burns, and mine flashes a warning at 108 (but I don't think it feels too hot): A hospital for example aims to limit outlets to "a maximum emitted water temperature of 45°C (113°F), with a failsafe "cut-off" temperature at 50°C (122°F)". I can sip 160 degree water from an insta hot tap without getting burned, the difference being duration and volume of exposure.

It looks like some studies about bathing suggest that the risk of health complications from sudden changes in temperature may be more significant than the water temperature being 104 or below, so it probably helps to take a hot shower before getting in the tub, if ambient temperature is much colder than the water, and also to vary one's body position for more or less immersion in the tub, sitting with the upper body out of it, off and on, especially before getting out.

 

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These results suggest that risks of hyperthermia or adverse cardiovascular effects in hot tubs may not be greater in water above 40.0 degrees C (104 degrees F) unless perceptual judgment is impaired. Hypotension when standing to exit the tub occurred in both trials and may represent a potential hazard to hot tub use: Comparison of responses of men to immersion in circulating water at 40.0 and 41.5 degrees C.

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Conclusion A low air temperature was closely correlated with the occurrence of bath-related cardiac arrest: Relationship between Bath-related Deaths and Low Air Temperature

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A previous study showed that bath-related deaths typically occur during the winter months. It is believed that a rapid change in body temperature, attributable to large differences between the bath water temperature and the ambient temperature in the dressing room, is a critical factor that is capable of inducing sudden death, particularly in elderly people.
 
From a preventive perspective, more than one quarter of the deaths (eg, those related to alcohol intoxication) may have been avoided. It should be highlighted that inebriated or ill (eg, dehydrated) people should not bathe. In addition, family members should pay attention to elderly people who have circulatory diseases during bathing, particularly in winter: Characteristics of Sudden Bath-Related Death Investigated by Medical Examiners in Tokyo, Japan
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These results suggested that the physiological strains during half-body bath and showering were smaller than during whole-body bath: Effects of room temperature on physiological and subjective responses during whole-body bathing, half-body bathing and showering

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Most bath‐related deaths occur among individuals older than 60 years, and the mortality rates tend to increase with age in both sexes. Bath‐related deaths rarely occur in nursing homes, and a great majority of these deaths occurs in the deceased's own residence. Older persons have several physiological factors for increased heat susceptibility, such as a diminished perception of heat, and reduced sweat output.

A study investigated patients who became sick during bathing and were transported to emergency hospitals without showing cardiopulmonary arrest. Among the vital signs recorded by the rescue squad crew, consciousness disturbance was observed in more than 70% of the patients... the most common diagnosis was transient consciousness disturbances [blackouts]: Bath‐related deaths: Preventive strategies and suggestions for general physicians

There are said to be more tub related deaths (exceeding 10% of all sudden deaths) in Japan due to more people bathing there, and those occur most often in winter (6.9 times more frequently than in the summer). It seems that indoor hot tubs would be safest for that matter, regardless of there being a max temp of 104 on them either way (one is probably at higher risk in a 104 degree tub out in the cold than a 108 degree tub inside a warm room, as far as that goes). This is good to be aware of I think, and guess it helps that my tub gradually cools down after I add the hotter water (so by the time I want to get out, there isn't as big of a difference in temperature when I stand up—not that I'm so old, but as a general rule this could be better, along with moving around in there, to be less likely to pass out for whatever reason). Well I like the differences in temperature, such as having a fan blow cold air on my face or upper body while sitting in a hot tub, but that's probably less extreme than jumping in and out entirely or laying back submerged the whole time.

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one-monkey-eyes-cl_1555000i.jpg

Japanese monkeys typically soak in 106 degree hot springs, as boiling groundwater trickles in there (some areas are said reach temperatures above 122 degrees Fahrenheit)!

I had something else to learn about bathing from this culture (of bath ninjas methinks). :ph34r: Monkey see, monkey do, as they say, because I also saw pictures of Japanese people in the onsens with a small towel over their heads. This turns out to be like the snow on a monkey's fur, as the cloth is often soaked in cold water. So I tried filling a large mixing bowl with ice water, and soaking a couple of bar towels in it (to change out and keep a cold one around my head and neck). It's very refreshing to bathe like a snow monkey! This also makes the water feel as if it's staying relatively hot, especially if I stand up to run an icy washcloth over my skin and sit back in it. That'll keep me from dozing off for sure, and is better than the fan I tried, because it blew water droplets in my eyes and cooled the tub down faster. I usually wring the cloth out too so it doesn't drip cold water in there... a fine tradition (I think I'm turning Japanese).

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