Did I Get Screwed?

[TinyBubbles]

Thanks spaidiot. That is helpful info. Then tent sale we went to was advertised by a local dealer on their website and we spoke to a guy from their store as well as a mfg. rep at the tent. The following day we went into the store. Everyone we had dealt with was very polite and friendly. It's good to know they weren't trying to con us. We had a home show here recently, and my husband and I discussed what these dealers do with their stores when at the home shows, so co. reps working them makes sense. I felt it was important to know the brand spa he purchased. Like you said, the manufacturer should be most interested in hearing what he's doing. They don't deserve to have their name tarnished. I'm sure they have legal teams and money to go after this guy, beyond that of any customer that was duped by him. I know all industries have their trade secrets, but are you able to say if you all work for a marketing co. or how do these spa dealers find you? TSG mentioned seeing this con man tell customer's they were looking at one spa when indeed they weren't. I was curious if they were working for the same co. at the time. It is great that you guys are able to help customers with certain problems. The vita shell situation was truely a nice thing to do. Helping potentional spa owner's on this site learn the difference between legit salespeople and con-artists, is another nice thing.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

As all 3 of his posts were made within a 30 minute period..... did ya ever consider he has limited computer/internet access? Not everyone checks in here every 5 minutes, 25/7

Very good point.

[B0Darc]

The success of The Con is directly proportional to the scammed folks not being to chatty about how easily they gave their money away. "Hello I'm a dumb@ss..." Legally he also may be unable or ill advised to divulge any more information. His bank will direct him to the correct authority... for example if he cashed the check across state lines. I bought at the bogus Master Spa convention Center event... "oh no one else showed up!" I wrote a check to a company name for a couple grand, and got no call when they said they would. The "personal cell number" provided by the guy hugging on his pregnant wife at the show never garnered me a return call. I was about 1 day away from contacting the police and my bank when they finally called with a delivery appt. (!!!)

I chalk it up to folks working on the road and businesses run from homes (or the road.) Selling spas is no get rich quick scheme... unless you take the deposit and never do anything else! Luckily I have gotten better service since... and I love my DownEast Exeter. Having a stationary retail storefront is an expensive proposition.

Good luck ChillyBilly, hope you get your money back, but I think you just paid for your Associates Degree in the School of Hard Knocks. Don't Hate. He's just a desperate sociopath on the lam, and you escaped only a *little* poorer. Once you have that much liquid cash reserve again make sure you go get that spa you dreamed about... don't let that scumbag kill your desire to soak! {{Man Hugs}}

Bo

[spaidiot]

TSG mentioned seeing this con man tell customer's they were looking at one spa when indeed they weren't. I was curious if they were working for the same co. at the time. It is great that you guys are able to help customers with certain problems. The vita shell situation was truely a nice thing to do. Helping potentional spa owner's on this site learn the difference between legit salespeople and con-artists, is another nice thing.

No I do not work for a marketing company, I'm known by reputation only. I use to manage a store for one of the top 5 Hot Spring dealers in the nation and before that owned a pretty big service company in San Diego. The spa industry is relatively small.

As far as TSG remarks I was at the same show with him, one of the largest fairs in the USA when I came across Tom O'Conner it was the first show I had worked with him. Yes, he is the same guy terminator explained in his post. We (show guys) quickly (2 weeks) realized this guy was a flat out scam artist. At that time the dealer sent him home with 2 weeks remaining of the show and then rectified all the false promises that were made. I was in charge of all the contracts, the dealer made everything right at his cost, that's the difference with dealing with a major manufacturer and a local retail dealer.

Always make sure that any off site event (Home Show, Fair, Tent Sale) is tied to a local established dealer. Anyone making claims of a factory rep, call the factory to confirm, the number is on back of most brochures. I hope this helps.

[thestallion]

good luck, I hope it all works out for you.

[TinyBubbles]

Thanks spaidiot. I think the information you've given on this post has been really helpful.

[TinyBubbles]

chillybilly made 3 posts in 30 minutes. When he stopped posting, FOR WHATEVER REASON, medic began the attack of "finding it strange" and blindly suspecting chillybilly intentions. THEN you came in and "find the post quite suspicious as well". I'm simply pointing out that you're jumping to conclusions with far less than circumstantial evidence.......... Actually, NO evidence at all..

Dr. Spa, you seem incredibly arguementative, are you having a bad day? I never saw anyone question anyone's access to a computer or the internet. He responded to my posts, just not my questions. That's what is so great about this world, we are all different. While you wouldn't remember who you wrote a check to, I would. Doesn't make either of us better. Sometimes I wonder why there is a forum here, when so many people are attacked for their posts and opinions.

Why was my reply to this post deleted? I have never done anything to violate the rules of this forum. If mine was deleted, then this should be deleted. If I am accused of something, I have every right to defend myself. As I said in the post that was deleted, I have NEVER attacked the original poster and I jumped to no conclusion. I, again, challenge you to point out what my conclusion was. What evidence do I need? You need evidence to back up a claim or accusation. I have made neither! If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly. I said I find it suspicious as well. You obviously felt it neccessary to throw in the "quite". I have every right to assert that I felt suspicious. When someone asked me a question, I was polite and explained why I has suspicions. I never accused anyone of anything. Other people on this site are calling a man a liar, conman and thief, yet their posts are still here, but mine is not! So much for freedom of speech.

[medic]

chillybilly made 3 posts in 30 minutes. When he stopped posting, FOR WHATEVER REASON, medic began the attack of "finding it strange" and blindly suspecting chillybilly intentions. THEN you came in and "find the post quite suspicious as well". I'm simply pointing out that you're jumping to conclusions with far less than circumstantial evidence.......... Actually, NO evidence at all..

Dr. Spa, you seem incredibly arguementative, are you having a bad day? I never saw anyone question anyone's access to a computer or the internet. He responded to my posts, just not my questions. That's what is so great about this world, we are all different. While you wouldn't remember who you wrote a check to, I would. Doesn't make either of us better. Sometimes I wonder why there is a forum here, when so many people are attacked for their posts and opinions.

Dr Spa,

It wasn't an attack of any sort. I apologize if it sounded that way. I was just reading the posts (not even looking at the time frames) and saw that he/she would not answer any questions at all directly. Very vague.

Again, my apologies... I have no intention to "attack" anyone on this board... Just try to help folks like I was helped on here

[powernoodle]

That was my thought spatech; someone trying to discredit him. He may very well deserve to be discredited, I don't know. It just seemed odd that he evaded questions asked of him. If he wrote the man a check he would know his name, not have to guess at it. Why not mention what brand of spas he was representing and in what area, in order to help others. Clearly from travelling's post, this man has rubbed alot of people the wrong way. Just sounded like someone angry with him thought sounding like a ripped-off consumer would be more effective than telling the truth. Travelling, would it be unethical for you to tell us a little bit about how the tent/travelling sales work? While it's horrible to talk about one spa while looking at another, it's also amazing how smart these con-men can be. I don't understand why vita and master continue to use him. Do you consider these unethical companies? Sorry to pick your brain, but you seem to have the most insight into these types of things.

Unethical companies!!!

Gotta remember, its not the companies. The dealers that hire these people!!!

Kinda a BOLD question, IMO

[TinyBubbles]

Powernoodle, I'm not sure why there is a need for 3 explanation points or bold text. I was asking for information and opinions from someone in the business. If you read my posts you would see that I was asking questions to learn who hires these people. There was nothing bold or wrong with what I asked. I have no bias towards the issue, so I am trying to ask important questions so the correct info. is out there. Once again a misquote. "unethical companies" was taken out of a question were a professional was asked if these were unethical companies in his opinion.

[chillybilly]

Thank you for your responses, I was just looking for confirmation to my suspition that I was duped, the suspition has been confirmed. I know that I need to take action now. I am sorry to have created such a heated debate, It was not my intention.

Thank You everyone.

[Whoneedsavacation]

FWIW A local spa dealer has a tent sale at the hardware store up the road from us every year. We ultimately bought our Freeflow Passport from their tent sale and are perfectly happy. We used a credit card and left with a contract in hand and plenty of contact info.

The name TO is a very common one. It does sound as if the original poster may have gotten ripped off, but I'd suggest folks be careful putting negative comments about a specific individual out without knowing if they have the correct identification. FWIW.

[slash]

I know Master does not employ this guy, so please stop blaming the manufacturers for dealers making mistakes and shady people running their own tent sales, taking deposits and running with the money. I lnow plenty of lying shady people who work for Jacuzzi, D1, Sundance, Coast, Hydro, ect. And how many Tom O'Connells are there? How many John Smith's for that matter? It does seem like this guy Tom has a rep though. Karma will get him.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Thank you for your responses, I was just looking for confirmation to my suspition that I was duped, the suspition has been confirmed. I know that I need to take action now. I am sorry to have created such a heated debate, It was not my intention.

Thank You everyone.

Chilly,

I feel for ya. Even though this really about whoever hired this guy at teh local level to do the show I would defintely still call the manufacturer to see if maybe their area rep can help sort out who was putting on this show. What brand of spa was it anyway?

[SteveO]

I have been in this business for over 20 yrs...I started out working for Chuck Hewitt and Cal-spas doing shows. I then went on my own working for dealers that I met on the road. I am now a G.M. for the largest dealership in my area. I can tell you that there is no savings buying at a fair or a home show. That is the story at these salesman tell you to get you to buy now....I charge an extra 4% at my shows to pay for all of the added expences ( airfare, hotels, higher commission rates for the salesmen and the cost to be in the shows around 7k) The sales pictch that they use is that the are factory reps.....( we are all factory reps....lol) and the factory will rebate the dealers. ( Not true ) If you buy today. It is true that you have your con artist out there at shows. I had a salesman working for me named fast Eddie. He was notorius for the bait and switch. I only gave him one chance and he blew it. So as far and buying a spa you want to buy it from the dealer and stay away from these parking lot sales. You can always go back to the dealer if things are not right. I know that this will make these carnies mad but it tis the truth. I am sorry to hear that you got ripped off by this guy. Good luck with it.

[slash]

Interesting that since you're not on that side of the business any more that you're throwing them under the bus. And from a ex-Cal guy, thats comical. You guys invented the show team! Is that because you want more profit in your pocket? And are you telling me that dealers who sponsor an event/sale aren't willing to make better deals with the hopes to offsetting the costs of the event? Everybody on earth knows that the word SALE doesn't really exist. Its all about dollars. Sales people need to ask for the business and build value in their product. Isn't it true that most dealers don't have the staff to do an event and have to use outside resources to do sell for them? You raise your prices for and event, I feel sorry for the guys who come in to sell for you, as they probably don't have a leg to stand on with customers who have gotten a quote from you directly. So are you the pot or the kettle?

[iveywk]

Bah I accidentally deleted the whole thing instead of my edit.

[slash]

A dealers least favorite words "well, the salesperson said . . " Long and the short of it - write clean paper and the dealer will have you back, be a scumbag and it'll get out. The key is that dealers talk to other dealers and let each other know who the good guys are. Dealers should ask show guys for referrences from other dealers. Every employment application has that, so why should they be exempt? Word of mouth is good but not good enough. Also ask yourself who is recommending these people and how do they stand to profit from you hiring this person for a show?

[Voice]

Well this is a really interesting thread to say the least, and I'd like to send my condolences for the loss of funds. it seems to me that the term "Show" is getting thrown around very loosely these days. This was a tent sale, not a show, as are many of the related topics...Nothing more then tent sales, held by dealers, scammers or the like, NOT manufacturers..

Reading through these posts I am still fairly young compared to some, but I have been selling for almost 10 years and I've represented over 30 companies. Shows usually have a large variety of products displayed not just one product like spas for example.. The cottage home life show, the Canadian hardware show, the pool and spa show, the LBMAO show etc etc...They all have a diverse offering...It is also very easy to tell that these shows are professional and legit because of there size and history..You sign in, you get scanned in, color coded tags, etc..I mean there are some that are designated to one product, like the lighting show in Vegas every year, but it's so damn big, you know one guy isn't running it...

Do research when you attend these events, you can get good deals but realize the risks involved....Risks have big pay outs, but they can also burn ya hard.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Do research when you attend these events, you can get good deals but realize the risks involved....Risks have big pay outs, but they can also burn ya hard.

That's a good point but Joe Consumer may have a difficult time researching a tent sale or show and finding out that the sales person is a scammer or that the "multi spa manufacturer" is a scam and its really just one manufacturer making it sound like there are many spa makers or that there is no local dealer involved.

Most shows and tent sales are legit. I would call ahead and ask what brands are sold there and see what answer you get. I know when I did that at a show last year that I knew was the bait 'n switch single manufacturer show I got a lot of double talk on the phone that would have alerted most people. I would call ahead if there is a phone number and if its a one manufacturer tent sale ask who the local dealer was and what their store ph # was (no local dealer or no phone number for you to follow up on, don't go). If they say its a multi manufacturer show ask who what brands and research.

[Dennnis]

CREDIT CARD!

CREDIT CARD!

CREDIT CARD!

I never pay cash or check for any expensive items I only use a credit card

I have never had a problem getting credit card company to refund a charge when I did not receive the item.

[IL Parrothead]

Most shows and tent sales are legit. I would call ahead and ask what brands are sold there and see what answer you get. I know when I did that at a show last year that I knew was the bait 'n switch single manufacturer show I got a lot of double talk on the phone that would have alerted most people. I would call ahead if there is a phone number and if its a one manufacturer tent sale ask who the local dealer was and what their store ph # was (no local dealer or no phone number for you to follow up on, don't go). If they say its a multi manufacturer show ask who what brands and research.

Last week there was a show advertised near here. I called the phone number and emailed -- asking what manufacturers would be represented. Didn't get a response from the call or the email. Didn't go to the show!