Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 Just thought that I would share a few pics of our method of leak repair. I purchased this automotive lift about a year ago and it has worked out even better than I thought it would. I can lift any spa with water in it to easily find and repair glue joints, freeze cracks, and rodent 'chew jobs'. It cost about $2500 and has paid for itself 100 times over. Some full-foam freeze repairs that used to take a week or more can sometimes be fixed in a few hours. An average cost to fix a tub is between $800-$1500 with pickup and redelivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Just thought that I would share a few pics of our method of leak repair. I purchased this automotive lift about a year ago and it has worked out even better than I thought it would. I can lift any spa with water in it to easily find and repair glue joints, freeze cracks, and rodent 'chew jobs'. It cost about $2500 and has paid for itself 100 times over. Some full-foam freeze repairs that used to take a week or more can sometimes be fixed in a few hours. An average cost to fix a tub is between $800-$1500 with pickup and redelivery. How much weight is it rated for? I need to be able to work on my trucks too. There is absolutely no reason for full foam, except to cut the cost of manufacturing. A strong shell does not need to be supported by foam, and a good thermally closed design is better at saving energy. This has been proven over three times by independent testing. http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Just thought that I would share a few pics of our method of leak repair. I purchased this automotive lift about a year ago and it has worked out even better than I thought it would. I can lift any spa with water in it to easily find and repair glue joints, freeze cracks, and rodent 'chew jobs'. It cost about $2500 and has paid for itself 100 times over. Some full-foam freeze repairs that used to take a week or more can sometimes be fixed in a few hours. An average cost to fix a tub is between $800-$1500 with pickup and redelivery. Had that been a thermopain design spa then it would be alot less difficult to repair and no lift needed. I worked on neighbors Clearwater spa and it was easy to spot the leak. It took ten minutes to remove the side panals and locate the loose fitting. I think it would have been a absolute nightmare to find and repair in a full foam spa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Had that been a thermopain design spa then it would be alot less difficult to repair and no lift needed. I worked on neighbors Clearwater spa and it was easy to spot the leak. It took ten minutes to remove the side panals and locate the loose fitting. I think it would have been a absolute nightmare to find and repair in a full foam spa! True...but I am of the opinion that only a fraction of quality tubs sold ever develop a leak in the plumbing, but every single non-insulated tub will cost a lot more money in the long run electric wise in the northeastern climate in which I operate. Why was the fitting 'loose'?...maybe because there was no insulation to keep it from vibrating apart? They are definitely easier to fix but I don't believe the slight possibility of a leak and the ease of repair is worth the operating cost in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Just thought that I would share a few pics of our method of leak repair. I purchased this automotive lift about a year ago and it has worked out even better than I thought it would. I can lift any spa with water in it to easily find and repair glue joints, freeze cracks, and rodent 'chew jobs'. It cost about $2500 and has paid for itself 100 times over. Some full-foam freeze repairs that used to take a week or more can sometimes be fixed in a few hours. An average cost to fix a tub is between $800-$1500 with pickup and redelivery. Had that been a thermopain design spa then it would be alot less difficult to repair and no lift needed. I worked on neighbors Clearwater spa and it was easy to spot the leak. It took ten minutes to remove the side panals and locate the loose fitting. I think it would have been a absolute nightmare to find and repair in a full foam spa! True...but I am of the opinion that only a fraction of quality tubs sold ever develop a leak in the plumbing, but every single non-insulated tub will cost a lot more money in the long run electric wise in the northeastern climate in which I operate. Why was the fitting 'loose'?...maybe because there was no insulation to keep it from vibrating apart? They are definitely easier to fix but I don't believe the slight possibility of a leak and the ease of repair is worth the operating cost in the long run. Right on the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Had that been a thermopain design spa then it would be alot less difficult to repair and no lift needed. I worked on neighbors Clearwater spa and it was easy to spot the leak. It took ten minutes to remove the side panals and locate the loose fitting. I think it would have been a absolute nightmare to find and repair in a full foam spa! Thermopane or Full Foam a freeze repair is very close to the same price for repair. Generaly there are more frozen parts on a TP. FF repairs are only nightmares for non techs. Very nice Dan, I use a duct jack with extensions. http://www.sumner.com/sumner/sub/productb/...7.8.23.0.0.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Very nice Dan, I use a duct jack with extensions. http://www.sumner.com/sumner/sub/productb/...7.8.23.0.0.html Never thought of one of those...can you fill it with water when it is on that? Looks like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Very nice Dan, I use a duct jack with extensions. http://www.sumner.com/sumner/sub/productb/...7.8.23.0.0.html Never thought of one of those...can you fill it with water when it is on that? Looks like a good idea. No water, we lower it and block it to water test, then raise and repair. The one we use has a 1500 lb capacity. We also use it to raise tubs to decks and such. There's also the battery powered model. http://www.pro-lift.com/custom.asp?id=79507&page=2 This one can roll across a yard and lift but it's kinda spendy for this guy. I wish I had a better shop set up I would get me a car hoist! My garage isn't big enough right now. To many other toys in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted November 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Very nice Dan, I use a duct jack with extensions. http://www.sumner.com/sumner/sub/productb/...7.8.23.0.0.html Never thought of one of those...can you fill it with water when it is on that? Looks like a good idea. No water, we lower it and block it to water test, then raise and repair. The one we use has a 1500 lb capacity. We also use it to raise tubs to decks and such. There's also the battery powered model. http://www.pro-lift.com/custom.asp?id=79507&page=2 This one can roll across a yard and lift but it's kinda spendy for this guy. I wish I had a better shop set up I would get me a car hoist! My garage isn't big enough right now. To many other toys in it. Yeah, this one is at my work...I'm planning on building a garage with my own lift next fall so I can refurbish and sell all of the tubs that we take back for "trash" when we deliver new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Very nice Dan, I use a duct jack with extensions. http://www.sumner.com/sumner/sub/productb/...7.8.23.0.0.html Never thought of one of those...can you fill it with water when it is on that? Looks like a good idea. No water, we lower it and block it to water test, then raise and repair. The one we use has a 1500 lb capacity. We also use it to raise tubs to decks and such. There's also the battery powered model. http://www.pro-lift.com/custom.asp?id=79507&page=2 This one can roll across a yard and lift but it's kinda spendy for this guy. I wish I had a better shop set up I would get me a car hoist! My garage isn't big enough right now. To many other toys in it. Yeah, this one is at my work...I'm planning on building a garage with my own lift next fall so I can refurbish and sell all of the tubs that we take back for "trash" when we deliver new ones. My garage is my work, I do all me refurbs there. I have been avoiding them for a while but I have a 2002 Sundance a guy wants me to buy so he can get a new tub. I have him an offer of 500 bucks but he is trying to get rid of it himself first. We shall see if he can find a better offer, but if he don't I may take that one. It works fine he is still using it, just a bit beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Hot Tub Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Had that been a thermopain design spa then it would be alot less difficult to repair and no lift needed. I worked on neighbors Clearwater spa and it was easy to spot the leak. It took ten minutes to remove the side panals and locate the loose fitting. I think it would have been a absolute nightmare to find and repair in a full foam spa! True...but I am of the opinion that only a fraction of quality tubs sold ever develop a leak in the plumbing, but every single non-insulated tub will cost a lot more money in the long run electric wise in the northeastern climate in which I operate. Why was the fitting 'loose'?...maybe because there was no insulation to keep it from vibrating apart? They are definitely easier to fix but I don't believe the slight possibility of a leak and the ease of repair is worth the operating cost in the long run. I know I am digging up old posts, but I have to say, a Clearwater is well insulated, if they were not, how did they pass the califoria energy tests? I own one and it only costs me on average $30.00 a month to run, lower in summer, higher in winter, and we have worked on many full foam including quality tubs that have developed leaks and they are a nightmare to repair. We have had 2 leaks on Clearwaters, both were the faulty light lens that waterway made, very simple to repair. Different story in full foam. Very nice set up for working on spas by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I know I am digging up old posts, but I have to say, a Clearwater is well insulated, if they were not, how did they pass the califoria energy tests? I own one and it only costs me on average $30.00 a month to run, lower in summer, higher in winter, and we have worked on many full foam including quality tubs that have developed leaks and they are a nightmare to repair. We have had 2 leaks on Clearwaters, both were the faulty light lens that waterway made, very simple to repair. Different story in full foam. Very nice set up for working on spas by the way... I can't speak for Clearwater but I've seen the list of companies that met that energy standard and there are some poorly insulated thermopane spa makers on that list so I don't think making that list says much. Hopefully it’s a starting point and they tighten the standards in time. I'm personally not sold on thermopane spas though maybe Clearwater is one of the companies that does it well. I'll stick with a full foam spa from a maker that has quality, rare leak issues and that I know insulates well. I'm in no way knocking Clearwater. i just know that making that list says little at this point knowing some of the ones who have supposedly "qualified" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Boy Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Had that been a thermopain design spa then it would be alot less difficult to repair and no lift needed. I worked on neighbors Clearwater spa and it was easy to spot the leak. It took ten minutes to remove the side panals and locate the loose fitting. I think it would have been a absolute nightmare to find and repair in a full foam spa! True...but I am of the opinion that only a fraction of quality tubs sold ever develop a leak in the plumbing, but every single non-insulated tub will cost a lot more money in the long run electric wise in the northeastern climate in which I operate. Why was the fitting 'loose'?...maybe because there was no insulation to keep it from vibrating apart? They are definitely easier to fix but I don't believe the slight possibility of a leak and the ease of repair is worth the operating cost in the long run. If you have a properly insualted TP spa, such as a Arctic Spa, it insulates just as good as a FF, if not better. It will not cost much more electical wise as you said. Also with an Arctic, you could repair any problems right there on the job site. I cannot fathom the idea of having to tell a customer that I need to take your spa to the shop for a week or two and then we will bring it back out when we find the problems and get them fixed. Arctic Spas have the best of both worlds. They insulate like a FF spa, and have the easy access for repairs of TP spas. The job that you are quoting of 800 to 1500 would be more like 200-300 for one of our customers. Just curious as I have never sold FF spas, but is this a common practice that FF spas need to be taken to a auto shop or somewhere they need to be jacked up in the air to repair??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I cannot fathom the idea of having to tell a customer that I need to take your spa to the shop for a week or two There is a member that had to wait up to a year for Arctic to see that they sold them a spa with a Warped shell I guess the steam coming out the side of the cover was not enough for arctic's concern. they got concerned when it got posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Hot Tub Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 I've seen the list of companies that met that energy standard and there are some poorly insulated thermopane spa makers on that list so I don't think making that list says much. Who has made the list that you dont think should have? Last I knew the list was very small(in January, have not checked recently, but will) and they have pretty serious guidlines to be listed as California Energy Effcient. Many manufactures are busting their ***** trying to comply at a reasonable cost(just getting the stuff needed to do the test is costly, nevermind the changes they need to make) knowing it will soon be countrywide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Had that been a thermopain design spa then it would be alot less difficult to repair and no lift needed. I worked on neighbors Clearwater spa and it was easy to spot the leak. It took ten minutes to remove the side panals and locate the loose fitting. I think it would have been a absolute nightmare to find and repair in a full foam spa! True...but I am of the opinion that only a fraction of quality tubs sold ever develop a leak in the plumbing, but every single non-insulated tub will cost a lot more money in the long run electric wise in the northeastern climate in which I operate. Why was the fitting 'loose'?...maybe because there was no insulation to keep it from vibrating apart? They are definitely easier to fix but I don't believe the slight possibility of a leak and the ease of repair is worth the operating cost in the long run. I know I am digging up old posts, but I have to say, a Clearwater is well insulated, if they were not, how did they pass the califoria energy tests? I own one and it only costs me on average $30.00 a month to run, lower in summer, higher in winter, and we have worked on many full foam including quality tubs that have developed leaks and they are a nightmare to repair. We have had 2 leaks on Clearwaters, both were the faulty light lens that waterway made, very simple to repair. Different story in full foam. Very nice set up for working on spas by the way... Are you saying that a light lens is difficult to fix in a full foam tub? Not so...they are accessable from the motor compartment just like they are in uninsulated tubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Are you saying that a light lens is difficult to fix in a full foam tub? Not so...they are accessable from the motor compartment just like they are in uninsulated tubs. Dan that was a pitch for Arctic. Even thought 99% of repairs on an Arctic are in the same place as any FF tub (the equipment area) For some reason we are spose to believe an Arctic is easier to fix!!! Remember alot of people have benn convinced that FF tubs leak in the foam every other week by those selling TP tubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Are you saying that a light lens is difficult to fix in a full foam tub? Not so...they are accessable from the motor compartment just like they are in uninsulated tubs. Dan that was a pitch for Arctic. Even thought 99% of repairs on an Arctic are in the same place as any FF tub (the equipment area) For some reason we are spose to believe an Arctic is easier to fix!!! Remember alot of people have benn convinced that FF tubs leak in the foam every other week by those selling TP tubs. 1) I'll step in for our Arctic friends and point out its kind of unfair to lump Arctic in with standard Thermal Panes due to the way they insulate. Their method is different so I'd expect it to work more similarly to full foam relative to energy efficiency and don't doubt that they do well. 2) The statement that if a full foam spa leaks in the foamed in area it is more difficult to fix obviously has truth but its incomplete to liave it at that. The other argument is they leak less often and another is that most leaks are in the equipment area anyway. In other words, its mostly just used as a sales approach and I'd expect any thermal pane salesperson to use it just like the full foam sales people sell their story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Full Foam is Quieter then TP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Hot Tub Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Full Foam is Quieter then TP We service all makes and models(not just sales) started as a service company and working for a manufacturer and used our exsperiences from that to choose our line we carry. We have done many leak repairs in full foam tubs that are not in compartment area, Mostly Hydropool (not Hydro spa) and Caldera and a few Hot Springs. Trust me, I don't knock much about Hot Spings, they are some of the oldest tubs we see in the field that still work. I just think that saying a tub that is not full foam is not insulated is bull. If they are done right such as Clearwater and Artic, they are very energy effecient, and I will add very quiet.(if it is quality thermopane that is thick enough) and IMO they are much easier to work in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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