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Master Spa Legacy


biasedhistorian
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I recently purchased a Master Spa legacy from one of those spa expos in RI. I was expecting to see many different brands at this "expo", but as already been posted previously most of what was on the floor was in one shape or form manafactured by Master Spa.

That being said, I found the sales staff professional. The salesman I spoke with went out of his way to tell me how Master Spa sends a group of sales people to expos across the country and proceeded to explain their products to me. What I did like is that "Cut Right" out of Somerset Mass. was also the dealer for the show and the owners were there to answer any questions relating to products, services, and maintenance.

So here we go...I went from just looking to -wow- I have to have one of these. My family of 5 tested out a Legacy Enterprise for fit and it was big enough for us and had the lounger that I crave. The Legacy series is a package product that comes with a stereo system, marine speakers, and a surrounding light effects package.

We ordered the unit and paid $6900 for the unit, stairs, heavy duty cover, and a cover caddy. I don't think it was a super steal, nor do I think I paid through my teeth for it...I think it was a fair price. I arranged delivery for two weeks later.

Continued...

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The unit was delivered on time and placed exactly where I asked it to be delivered. The delivery people were friendly and gave advice on how to put the caddy together. I am fairly handy but I could see how some people would expect the caddy to be put together for them. They did not fill up the tub or provide any chemicals, stating that this was an option. I don't recall being offered that option at the expo but for me it was not a major deal. I later contacted "Cut Right" and recommended to them that they incorporate the cost of having someone fill the tub and explain the chemicals and care for the product into the cost. That is just my opinion and I think a store can get a lot of "bang for their buck" in doing so.

So I filled the unit and prepped it based on the manual. I hooked the electricity up and had a peek inside. The insulation is a thin silver wrap with the four corners uninsulated. I will wait to see my electrical consumption before I consider any modifications but would like to point out that I have found this board to be a good resource on that subject. A few hours later we were good to go.

What I like about the product;

The stereo has CD/MP3 capability and plenty of sound. The marine speakers survive well under the pressure of three kids splashing water.

The lights has many colors and modes- the kids of course like the blinking color changing cycle. I think it is around 8 colors.

The pressure is very powerful. 40 jets. I like that you can adjust the pressure on each jet with a twist...so you can customize each sitting position. The waterfall is also relaxing. I have tried every position and have not found one that makes me uncomfortable. The lounger is great.

What I do not like about the product;

There are 2 motors...when the lounger motor is running it also runs the waterfall...however in order to run the waterfall and the seat jets at the waterfall you need to have both motors running- regardless if someone is in the lounger. I would like to have seen the lounger on it's own circuit...but I can live with it.

The radio did not come with a remote (I think I can get one for the BOSS stereo), so you have to reach over the tub and pull a spring loaded door open to get at it...may not be fun on a cold night :)

I may not like the electrical consumption- stay tuned.

So all is well that ends well right? Next... the leak....

Continued...

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OH MY GAWD THER'S A LEAK!!! :o

So I notice that a puddle mark on the side of the unit is not going away. I call "Cut Right" and inform them of my predicament. I am informed that a tech will be out to check on it on the following morning. Less than 24 hours later a tech is at my unit, pulling it apart. Is it bad I ask...well..he replies...it's not good.

One of the main PVC trunks (a white tube with many smaller white tubes branching from it was not properly sealed during manafacturing (don't shoot me I am just the messenger). To fix it will require draining the tub, putting it on it's side and replacing the defective part. To the tech's credit he also noted that one of the motor's sounds weak and orders a new one.

This is on a Tuesday. He hopes to have the part installed by Friday. The week passes, but the same tech is there on Monday morning with the parts. I speak with him for a bit and he tells me that he will provide me with a chemical starter kit and walk me through everything. He completes the repair and fills the unit. He applies the chemicals and shows me a weeklong plan to keep the water pristine. I have the Eco-Pur system.

It has been a week now and all seems well. The owners of "Cut Right", also dropped off 6 months of chemicals for my suffering so I can say that the dealership has been very helpful. The filter was in continuous on mode for a few days to cycle through some leak stop material so I will wait an extra month to report my electrical consumption.

I am a miser and leave it at 82 degrees in econo mode until I plan on using it. I get out of work at 4pm and let it heat up for an after dinner dip.

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I'm no fan of Master but besides faith in the manufacturer you also want to have faith in your dealer because they can make a good situation bad or a bad situation good. It sounds like you may have hooked up with a good dealer so hopefully all will work out well as they've already taken care of one issue that could have been dreadful if they weren't there to take care of it promptly.

BTW, you noted that you saw scant insulation and none on the corners and would wait for to see your utility bill. Why wait? I've seen too many Master owners cringe at their spa's insulating properties. At a minimum you should be looking to insulate those 4 corners and it shouldn’t be difficult to do. Stop by your local Lowes/Home Depot and see what options they have.

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Hello,

I did see this article while researching about Master Spa. I can also see why people would see it as deceptive. I was dissapointed that there were no other major brands there, but I had also completed some research online and visited one other dealer prior to attending the expo. It cost me nothing to attend the expo and at no time was I pressured to buy. I also have two friends who have spas so I knew what I did and did not like in a model. In my case it worked out but I agree that people should visit more than just the expo while researching spas.

The tech who repaired my spa was the person who advised me not to insulate the corners because of concerns over the units being able to breath properly. There is also foam on the bottom of the tub. I want to wait to see of I get a crazy bill like "justsoaked" before I modify the unit. I am thinking of putting in the insulation during Jan/Feb, which are the two real cold months that we get in RI.

This forum has been great for giving out tips on the ins and outs of the spa world, so I hope the little I have learned can help the next person looking at buying a spa.

Thanks.

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[The tech who repaired my spa was the person who advised me not to insulate the corners because of concerns over the units being able to breath properly. There is also foam on the bottom of the tub. I want to wait to see of I get a crazy bill like "justsoaked" before I modify the unit. I am thinking of putting in the insulation during Jan/Feb, which are the two real cold months that we get in RI.

That can be a concern if you make it air tight but I think those spas "breath" plenty in other areas so I think you're probably safe to insulate the corners but if it did cause an issue the dealer could take you to task for modifying their product so you should be aware of that (even though this dealer seems to be have their customers interest in mind).

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Master Spa is built in my home town in Northern Indiana. They have a factory showroom and had all three different levels of spas. The guys I talked to were very honest and told me that the Legacy series was based on old technology and was not as well insualted as the other series. It was very inexpensive (like 5000 for the one I was looking at).

He told me that he would recommend if you are DIY guy to put in more insulation, but if you do so before the 1 year warranty it could affect that.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well time for my one month update.

I was waiting for my electricity bill to arrive. I new it would be off a bit because of the 4-6 days it was left in continuous filter but I am still gasping a bit. The month before the hot tub I used 532 KWH. During the 34 days after my Master Spa arrived I used 1166 KWH! Wow! I am still reeling a bit on that one. Looks like I will be off to Home Creepo for that silver insulation wrap that has been mentioned here.

In terms of operation...everything is working fine. No further leaks...though is it normal to lose about half an inch a week through normal use? Not a big deal but every other week I drop a few gallons in to compensate...just not sure if that is a normal thing?

I am happy to say that the chemicals have been working fine. I had a 1-2 day spat where I thought I was losing the balance but I brought it back with a little effort. Used a filter cleaner provided by the dealer and it was easy to apply and cleaned great resulting in a bright white filter.

So in short tubbing is going great...3-4 times per week. Major concern is the utility bill..will attempt to compensate with insulation. I would like to get it down to $50-60 bucks a month...right now it was more like $100-110. Again almost a week of it running constant during the repairs may have a bit to do with it. When not in use it sits in Economy mode at 82-84 degrees.

Thanks again for putting out a lot of great information...will do a three month review next.

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No wonder it cost that much! ECONOMY mode is killing u. You should be in STANDARD!

Is it cheaper to run in standard? That seems counterintuitive to me.

I scratched my head on that comment too and certainly don't agree. I would expect it to be slightly cheaper to run in economy mode, not very much different though. As noted, its time to consider adding some insulation IMO.

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Just to spare you from reading Page 41 of the PDF manual I downloaded from MasterSpas

~~~~~quote~~~~~

Mode

Mode is changed by pressing the “Warm” or “Cool” button, then pressing the

“Light” button.

Standard mode is programmed to maintain the desired temperature. Note that

the last measured spa temperature displayed is current only when the pump has

been running for at least 2 minutes. “St” will be displayed momentarily when you

switch into Standard mode.

Economy mode heats the spa to the set temperature only during filter cycles.

"Ecn" will display solid when the temperature is not current, and will alternate

with the temperature when the temperature is current.

Sleep mode heats the spa to within 20°F /10°C) of the set temperature only

during filter cycles. "SL" will display solid when the temperature is not current,

and will alternate with temperature when temperature is current.

Preset Filter Cycles

The first filter cycle begins 6 minutes after the spa is energized.The second filter

cycle begins 12 hours later. Filter duration is programmable for 2, 4, 6, 8 hours

or for continuous filtration (indicated by “FC”).The default filter time is 2 hours.

To program, press “Warm” or “Cool”, then “Jets.” Press “Warm” or “Cool” to

adjust. Press “Jets” to exit programming.

The low speed of the pump runs during filtration and the ozone generator

(if installed) will be enabled.

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I think the electric bill once again shows that if your tub is a TP design they better get it right or your result is going to be higher energy consummation. There only seems to be a couple of makers who use to the TP design and seem to be consistent with it. Arctic and Coleman...I am sure there are others also but they seem to be the most well known.

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Just to spare you from reading Page 41 of the PDF manual I downloaded from MasterSpas

~~~~~quote~~~~~

Mode

Mode is changed by pressing the “Warm” or “Cool” button, then pressing the

“Light” button.

Standard mode is programmed to maintain the desired temperature. Note that

the last measured spa temperature displayed is current only when the pump has

been running for at least 2 minutes. “St” will be displayed momentarily when you

switch into Standard mode.

Economy mode heats the spa to the set temperature only during filter cycles.

"Ecn" will display solid when the temperature is not current, and will alternate

with the temperature when the temperature is current.

Sleep mode heats the spa to within 20°F /10°C) of the set temperature only

during filter cycles. "SL" will display solid when the temperature is not current,

and will alternate with temperature when temperature is current.

Preset Filter Cycles

The first filter cycle begins 6 minutes after the spa is energized.The second filter

cycle begins 12 hours later. Filter duration is programmable for 2, 4, 6, 8 hours

or for continuous filtration (indicated by “FC”).The default filter time is 2 hours.

To program, press “Warm” or “Cool”, then “Jets.” Press “Warm” or “Cool” to

adjust. Press “Jets” to exit programming.

The low speed of the pump runs during filtration and the ozone generator

(if installed) will be enabled.

Hi,

I am familiar with the manual and settings...just not sure if you are saying this for the econo mode or the standard mode? I thought ecno would save some bucks considering I only use it three times a week?

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Hi,

I am familiar with the manual and settings...just not sure if you are saying this for the econo mode or the standard mode? I thought ecno would save some bucks considering I only use it three times a week?

It will save a little. It may make it less convenient because you may be ready for a soak when it isn't up to temp if it’s been a while since its last filter cycle. It’s up to you whether the savings are worth the inconvenience.

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Hi,

I am familiar with the manual and settings...just not sure if you are saying this for the econo mode or the standard mode? I thought ecno would save some bucks considering I only use it three times a week?

It will save a little. It may make it less convenient because you may be ready for a soak when it isn't up to temp if it’s been a while since its last filter cycle. It’s up to you whether the savings are worth the inconvenience.

Well I pasted both to include filter cycles because the default is 2 hours, the most frequent. You could set it on Ecn and lengthen the filter cycle... not my recommendation, but I'm not a spa tech. I've never been one for saving electricity. Like spatech said it'd have to be heating up for a while or be at the end of a scheduled filter cycle to be up to temp. That would crimp my spontaneity. You might be better of buying a better thermal solution like a bubble thingy (spa blanket) to go directly on top of the water under the cover

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I am not sure of your regional climates, but if you are in a cold climate it makes sense as to why you are having high energy bills. By turning your spa down to 86 you are asking your heater to work twice as hard when you want to go use it, rather then relying on your insulation and having your heater kick on only when it needs to. Your pumps also run longer and harder.

Something else that could lay a factor is not turning off your air valves when you get out of the spa....Ambient air being pulled into the spa will cool the water every time your spa cycles, and or cleans itself and hence your heater will kick on.

It is also not safe to turn your spa down to this temp in cold climates. Why you ask? well if you do have a power outage, short out or some other freak of nature it will now take a shorter time for the water to lose heat and freeze. Freezing of a spa, "depending on circumstance" is also considered negligence to spa care and voids all warranty. In saying that, a few degrees is fine..Don't try to save the planet by turning it down to it's lowest setting though. You are causing more harm then good and might just as well take out all your insulation because you aren't even using it.

I'd also like to point out that the news broadcast in this thread is about a DEALER that calls itself "Master pool and spa" It seems there was some misconception in this regard. I recently started selling Master spas and I have never backed a product that I don't feel is worthy of my support. They make 3 levels of spas catered to reach 3 different demographics and price points, sacrificing and budgeting in all the right areas to make tubbing affordable and possible for everyone. Last time I checked we all deserved it. They have many awards including the inspire award, consumer digest best buy awards and a Master Spa is also located on camp David catering to people with very high standards. This isn't a sales pitch, it's whats right for you, but the bashing isn't really needed, especially when it's misinforming and uneducated.

Economy mode should be used in summer months when there is less demand on R-values,when requested temp levels are fairly consistent to your desired temp settings, or when going on vacation. At your current setting of 86 you aren't saving anything because when you go to use it you're cranking it up and putting high demand on the system 3 times a week...

Hope this has helped

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I'd also like to point out that the news broadcast in this thread is about a DEALER that calls itself "Master pool and spa" It seems there was some misconception in this regard.

Are you saying that the company in the news expose is not Master Spa?

If so, I would suggest going back and watching the video again. Pay particular attention to the 1:05 mark where it shows a Master Spa banner over the spas.

Taken directly off of the Master Pool and Spa website:

#1 MASTER SPAS DEALER IN THE WORLD

Master Pool and Spa is "Minnesota's Largest Pool and Spa Showroom"

Specifically focusing on and providing the best custom built pools of all sizes at the highest quality and great portable spas. Our goal is to give you as much variety as possible and set ourselves apart from the competition.

We are your full service "turn key" solution to pools and spas and all of their amenities.

Simply the best in our field, we are proud to display the evidence of our success.

Our showroom has on display the full line of Master Spas Hot Tubs ranging in color, size, and complexity to fit each customer's individual needs. Many examples can be found in the spas section of this website.

Same old Master Spa, same old shenanigans. Some things never change.

Terminator

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I am not sure of your regional climates, but if you are in a cold climate it makes sense as to why you are having high energy bills. By turning your spa down to 86 you are asking your heater to work twice as hard when you want to go use it, rather then relying on your insulation and having your heater kick on only when it needs to. Your pumps also run longer and harder.

Something else that could lay a factor is not turning off your air valves when you get out of the spa....Ambient air being pulled into the spa will cool the water every time your spa cycles, and or cleans itself and hence your heater will kick on.

It is also not safe to turn your spa down to this temp in cold climates. Why you ask? well if you do have a power outage, short out or some other freak of nature it will now take a shorter time for the water to lose heat and freeze. Freezing of a spa, "depending on circumstance" is also considered negligence to spa care and voids all warranty. In saying that, a few degrees is fine..Don't try to save the planet by turning it down to it's lowest setting though. You are causing more harm then good and might just as well take out all your insulation because you aren't even using it.

I'd also like to point out that the news broadcast in this thread is about a DEALER that calls itself "Master pool and spa" It seems there was some misconception in this regard. I recently started selling Master spas and I have never backed a product that I don't feel is worthy of my support. They make 3 levels of spas catered to reach 3 different demographics and price points, sacrificing and budgeting in all the right areas to make tubbing affordable and possible for everyone. Last time I checked we all deserved it. They have many awards including the inspire award, consumer digest best buy awards and a Master Spa is also located on camp David catering to people with very high standards. This isn't a sales pitch, it's whats right for you, but the bashing isn't really needed, especially when it's misinforming and uneducated.

I looked at alot of spas before buying my DownEast Exeter. I bought it at one of the "Shows" All of the other dealers for competing brands had storefronts in town. I got an incredible deal, and the features that were whittled down from the top of the line Master Spas that make the DownEast line cheaper (mid-line) were made very clear to me by the salesman. I just think people prefer a local dealer with a retail storefront, and the show thing is a little misleading from the very first words out of their mouths ("The other guys didn't show up...") That's everyone's problem in a nutshell. I mean if you're going to lie about that as an apparent business strategy when exactly do the lies stop?

Best of luck to YOU however. I think Master Spas could sell themselves. The thing about lying to people is it implies they are stupid and therefore its insulting. I would never call you a liar, we have never met, but the folks at the show lied to me and I felt insulted. Being old and cynical helped however as I was able to procure a best choice of spa for myself at an incredible pricepoint, regardless of the fact I was knee-deep in BS. Master Spa really needs some new leadership in the Marketing dept... I recommend someone with a soul. You sir seem like a good enough guy. Good luck in your new endeavor, all you should do is smile and point people to a superior product line and give them prompt courteous service and you'll be golden... easy money B)

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Thats exactly what I'm saying...Master spas manufacturing is located in Fort Wayne Indiana, that sign you are talking about is called POP, anyone can order it, that buys and sells master spas. The dealer rented out this space and staged the event, NOT "Master Spas"..I could do the same with any product. I carry several spa lines and I could go rent a warehouse and do the same damn thing

#1 MASTER SPAS DEALER IN THE WORLD

Master Pool and Spa is "Minnesota's Largest Pool and Spa Showroom"

They are a dealer nothing more

I can go online log into Hotspring and order signage the same way

Shows are meant as big PK (product knowledge) sessions, showcasing new products, and often the people manning them are either part of a sales agency that represents 1 or as many as 29 companies+, a dealer, or direct employees of the company. It all depends on the show and who is hosting it.. I have worked at many of them and walked a few as well.. The deals you get are largely because no one wants to pack up the displays and would rather just sell the booth off. It's a great one stop information session and it's a great tool for dealers to use to learn more or buy new products. You can buy at these shows but you need to ask the right questions before you do...

Will my warranty be transfered to a dealer? can I contact you with any issues? where should I get my water tested etc etc etc

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Thats exactly what I'm saying...Master spas manufacturing is located in Fort Wayne Indiana, that sign you are talking about is called POP, anyone can order it, that buys and sells master spas. The dealer rented out this space and staged the event, NOT "Master Spas"..I could do the same with any product. I carry several spa lines and I could go rent a warehouse and do the same damn thing

#1 MASTER SPAS DEALER IN THE WORLD

Master Pool and Spa is "Minnesota's Largest Pool and Spa Showroom"

They are a dealer nothing more

I read all of the forum(s) postings related to this post and it does look like other dealers are taking this as an opportunity to (pile on) question the character of Master Spas business principles ...one bad apple. However I don't live anywhere near Minn. and the show I attended was by another Master Spa dealer... don't even ask me as I won't say, more of an issue of my own anonymity. So for me personally I know of two dealers using the same selling strategy... two bad apples?

I have been a retail store manager and a retail store owner and I know what it takes to sell and stay in the black (not spas). In all fairness to the "show" concept, I have to think the couple grand I shaved off my spa purchase price had to do with a lower overhead... and these guys were selling alot of spas! So in reality for all intents and purposes it's a good idea... the trickery involved to get you to pay $5 to visit their portable showroom is the distasteful part.

I would not advise the faint of heart to try and get a rock bottom deal from a remote dealer (100 miles away), I'm just technologically and mechanically (and now chemically!) self-sufficient B) What you (Voice) need to understand is I *would* have paid the extra couple grand to have a local dealer with a shiny reputation backing my major purchase. For me, since I can fix anything, warranties have never been an issue... so this time saving $$ at "the show" fit my needs and met my comfort level.

OH! and you had some great points! Allowing your spa to get lower in temp in a cold climate is risky. Look at all the folks who are without power today~ (Oklahoma?) That 15-20 degrees could = another day before you were in danger of spa-freezation

Get out and close the air jets in the cold...duuhuh?

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Hey, that's my local dealer. :D:lol:

Please note, when they say Master Pool and Spa in that news piece, they are referring to the dealer Master Pool and Spa in St Louis Park Minnesota. They are not saying Master Spas, which is the spa manufacturer.

While the news piece does make it sound deceptive, the only thing they can really say is that it was one DEALER at the show. That one DEALER was representing 15 different manufacturers. I've never been to their show, so i don't know which manufacturers were supposedly there, but if there were 15 different brands (Manufacturers) of tubs there, then I don't see the false advertising.

I'm not sure what the lady was complaining about. She bought a spa that she liked, at a price she wanted to pay, and now she's mad because it was only one dealer representing all the brands? If the spa does what she wants it to do, what's she complaining about? Now if it was only Master Spa, Down East, and a couple of the other brands that Master Spa makes, I could see where she feels she was deceived. But I think she's complaining just because she didn't do her homework before she went shopping.

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If it could be proved that master spas was directing this show the better business bureau complaint would have been filed and issued to the manufacturing facility in Fort Wayne Indiana. It wasn't, it was issued to the "dealer" in Minnesota.

I can see where you are coming from, and I totally understand your concerns. If further actions are carried and notice is brought to the higher ups, I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer loses the line...It's hard to say, numbers do matter. There are lots of salesman out there with bad tactics, makes us all cringe when we go to buy something. It's hard to say whats the easiest way to avoid these types of get rich quick and die lying, and we see it in many industries including but not limited to hot tubs, cars, contracting/renos etc etc. Research is your best bet and a good judge of character.... A good solid deal can be found at a show though, these guys sometimes get this stuff for free to display, or dirt cheap prices, hence the deals. You just have to be careful... A legitimate show should have proper bar codes on tags to be scanned, they should also have color coded tags. This tells the people manning the booth whos whos. Red, yellow, green, blue. Designating colors tell sales staff who guests, buyers, dealers and so forth are. if your surrounded by blue tags, odds are your fresh meat.

Thanks for the inspiration though, I believe my practices are ethical and good spirited. I don;t sell something I wont believe in..It's unfortunate you have had the experience you have, there are lots of bad salesmen out there, the best thing you can do is take down names and inform the companies of your concerns regarding certain individuals...They do take note

As for the air controls....you can reach them while you are in the spa, turn them off before you get out :)

Thats exactly what I'm saying...Master spas manufacturing is located in Fort Wayne Indiana, that sign you are talking about is called POP, anyone can order it, that buys and sells master spas. The dealer rented out this space and staged the event, NOT "Master Spas"..I could do the same with any product. I carry several spa lines and I could go rent a warehouse and do the same damn thing

#1 MASTER SPAS DEALER IN THE WORLD

Master Pool and Spa is "Minnesota's Largest Pool and Spa Showroom"

They are a dealer nothing more

I read all of the forum(s) postings related to this post and it does look like other dealers are taking this as an opportunity to (pile on) question the character of Master Spas business principles ...one bad apple. However I don't live anywhere near Minn. and the show I attended was by another Master Spa dealer... don't even ask me as I won't say, more of an issue of my own anonymity. So for me personally I know of two dealers using the same selling strategy... two bad apples?

I have been a retail store manager and a retail store owner and I know what it takes to sell and stay in the black (not spas). In all fairness to the "show" concept, I have to think the couple grand I shaved off my spa purchase price had to do with a lower overhead... and these guys were selling alot of spas! So in reality for all intents and purposes it's a good idea... the trickery involved to get you to pay $5 to visit their portable showroom is the distasteful part.

I would not advise the faint of heart to try and get a rock bottom deal from a remote dealer (100 miles away), I'm just technologically and mechanically (and now chemically!) self-sufficient B) What you (Voice) need to understand is I *would* have paid the extra couple grand to have a local dealer with a shiny reputation backing my major purchase. For me, since I can fix anything, warranties have never been an issue... so this time saving $$ at "the show" fit my needs and met my comfort level.

OH! and you had some great points! Allowing your spa to get lower in temp in a cold climate is risky. Look at all the folks who are without power today~ (Oklahoma?) That 15-20 degrees could = another day before you were in danger of spa-freezation

Get out and close the air jets in the cold...duuhuh?

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