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Arctic Spa Wont Sell Me A Spa Where I Live.


adudinsk

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Ok.. I live in Windsor Ontario, about 5 min from USA Border. I have decided on an Arctic Spa Tundra Legend Extreme. A pretty much loaded spa.

I call the closest dealer in Canada.. they quote $15,999.cnd. + tax = $18,078cnd(4 hour drive away.. but I am about 100km or 60 miles out of their service area).

So.. I call the USA's closest dealer. (1 hour away). They quote $10,500+NO tax as I am out of state. I get a -6% exchange.. pay 13% customs and thus can land it for $11,153.00cnd HUGE HUGE difference.

We start setting up the deal.. and they then say the headquarters wont let them sell to Canada.

I call the head quarters (780 area code) and they say... "if you buy from USA no warranty.. PARTS only, as they cannot come over and repair the tub"

I ask.. why cannot ANY arctic dealer fix it.. (assuming its a simple fix.. I can change jets etc.. so for little stuff I am ok with parts only).

They say NO.. other dealers cannot fix it.. and even if they could your still out of their area by 100km or 60 miles.

So they then say if I buy in Canada from Toronto area.. Its a PARTS ONLY warranty as well.

I ask them.. then why the heck is there a $7000+ difference on a tub made in canada purchased in canada.. why is it so much cheaper in USA?!?!?

No answer.

I ask didnt you have a Windsor dealer..

they reply yess.

Did anyone in Windsor buy the extended SE warranty ?

Yes...

How they heck do you repair their tubs??

they say.. "we hire local NON-ARCTIC spa places to fix the tubs'

Ok.. that will work for me...

they say "NO" Parts only warranty.

I ask then.. "Ok.. what discount do I get as I am now doing my own labour..."

they reply.." None.. what do you mean??"

I ask them.. "So your telling me this.. 1) you say I cannot buy from USA.. 2) I must buy this canadian made tub from a dealer in Canada thats 4+ hours away for $7000 more 3) Either way.. I get a PARTS ONLY warranty... 4) and I get no discount of any sort."

They reply

"Yes.. thats it.. and you would have to sign a letter and send it to the headquarters stating that your get a (no discount) parts only warranty"

I ask.. "if I lived in Toronto.. and bought the tub there.. then moved to Windsor.. would I have a full warranty"

They say "YES!!!"

So what the heck is going on here....

I can move my tub from Toronto to Windsor.. and still get warranty.. but cannot buy it out right.. or from usa saving $7000!!!

I ask them.. "well you dont seem too confident that your tub will go the warranty without a major repair then... as I am able to swap little stuff like jets etc"

They say. "we have a 6% major repair over the 5yr warranty.. so no.."

Crikies!!!

I then ask.. "so your not interested in selling me any spa of any sort"

they reply "No.. just incase you get a lemon or something.. its not worth you getting upset with us.. we had a dealer in Windsor, but not any more.. so we dont want to sell a tub in this Grey area.. nor warranty any tub bought in USA and brought back to Canada. Sorry.. we dont want to sell you a tub."

I thanked them for their honesty.. but wow.. what a crazy company... I was totally blown away...

Now considering a Vita Spa Rendevouz.. any suggestions as to how it compairs to Arctic's Tundera Legend Extreme?

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I ask them.. then why the heck is there a $7000+ difference on a tub made in canada purchased in canada.. why is it so much cheaper in USA?!?!?

Canadians have been wondering this for some time, and consumers are starting to become upset. Why should a book that is $9.95 US cost $14.95 in Canada? Why should a $20,000USD car cost $30,000CAD? Evidently hot tubs are in that list too. I don't understand those issues but it is clearly something that extends beyond our company.

I think Tom the moderator would be a good person to respond to his own company's policy on this matter. I have had absolutely no problems with my Arctic or the company itself...

As for the other stuff, I am going to ask this poster for particulars in a PM and see what I can see.

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Looking at that price I can say that $15,999 is full MSRP. With Tax it should only be $17k because dealers in Ontario cant charge PST on spas. IM sure if you actually went to the store and negotiated you would be in the same price range. $10,500 seems awfully cheap for a Tundra Legend Extreme tub from Arctic. It must be an ultra competetive market in Northern Michigan. Also your looking at buying a tub in the GTA prices will vary quite a bit.

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Now considering a Vita Spa Rendevouz.. any suggestions as to how it compairs to Arctic's Tundera Legend Extreme?[/b][/size]

You may want to read my post below about Vita, their warranty, and the problems I am currently having with them. Good luck. I feel your pain.

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I have to respect Artic's honesty about the situation. They don't have a dealer in your area, so they don't feel that they could adequately service you if there was a problem. It's better to not sell to you, than to sell you a tub, and get lots of complaints if there are any service issues.

As for the US dealer not being able to sell into Canada, I'm assuming that it has something to do with dealer territories, and possibly government regulations. There might be some tax things involved, or some other reason.

But overall, while I can understand that you would be upset because they won't sell you the tub you want, it's probably better for you to get a tub with a local servicing dealer, than to buy long distance and have to deal with problems on your own.

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I called back the Oakville Arctic SPa store. Gave them my landed price. Told them I understand that there might be some extra shipping possibly. Could they even come close to this price. And asked about the warranty.

They said warranty would be a big problem.

If they could not provide a full warranty.. and only Parts Only would there be a discount?

Answer: No could not come even close, to the price, and No parts only warranty discount. They left a voice message, and appoligized.

Again, I expect even the best tub to have parts go bad. Stuff wears out. Jets pop out .. no biggie..

Stuff like that I can handle.. I can swap pumps.. I can swap a heater etc..

I am really worried about a huge failure.. or the slim possiblilty of a lemon (although DONT expect that at all from Arctic, and many other high end units)

We used to have an Arctic Spa Dealer.. here.. but no more..

I guess I live in the wrong city.. LOL.

Well.. considering other tubs.. and figure now I have some extra time to do my homework..etc.. look for a sale.. etc..

I prob will start by redoing my patio concrete first. Maybe in the spring Arctic will have a dealer in London or Windsor.

As for Windsor.. I was told ANY dealer could sell it by the headquarters.. as I was in a Grey Area.

(border crossing might be a bit of pain.. but no biggie...)

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I agree. they were very nice to talk with, and answered all tub questions 100% to my satisfaction.

I do feel for them worried about the chance of a lemon.. (hey.. anything is possible..)

And I agree that its best to have a local dealer.

I guess I will not pull the trigger right away.. take my time.. fix my patio up.. get the wiring done ahead of time..etc..etc..

then when things work out, I can pop on a tub... and act fast.

no biggie...

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basically, they said any plumber, or tub place could repair it.. but the arctic difference was they use top shelf parts etc.

(hey..you get what you pay for.. I agree.... )

Heck its not a rocket ship.

Problem was that when they call a local guy in they get billed an hourly rate.. rather then their rack rate. (and the local non-arctic dealers often charge more hours etc..)

Yeah.. I can see that happening..

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Yeah.. I read that..

The Vita Dealer told me Tuesday, that the VitaSpa has a fantastic shell. and if there is ANY tiny problem.. they replace the WHOLE tub.

Hmm. maybe not..

They did say it was 5yr warranty, and 10 for delamination.. Now I am thinking I should check if they wrote it down..

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Drive across the river, buy the tub, stick the $7000 in your pocket, and say screw the warranty.

Oh, and call them back and get the name of the non-Artic place that was going to be fixing it anyway.

Well, you wouldn't be the first Canadian to jump the border for a shopping spree! :P

Cross-border shopping seems to have its headaches, despite the strong looney. Hot tubs aren't on the favored goods list, and the Arctic is made in Canada, so you'd probably have to pay duty and tax at the border. Once you finally get back across! http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/11/05/...rs.html?ref=rss But it still might pay off.

I thought RickJ's comments were sensible and to the point.

A dealer who will say or do anything to get a sale ("You live four hours away? No problem! We'll run out and look at your spa any time you want! Sure, I'll put it in writing! Sign here.") is not the kind of dealer anybody wants or needs. That kind of thing is bad for the industry as a whole.

A dealer who will be honest, even if it costs a sale ("I work hard to keep my customers satisfied, and I'm not sure that I would be able to do that for someone who lives that far outside my service area") is more reputable IMO.

I haven't yet found why our spas should be so much cheaper in the US than in Canada, nor why a book that is $29.95 in Butte is $39.95 (or whatever) back home.

=======

Had a chance to talk to one of our owners recently. His reply about the strength of the CA dollar did not IMO fully account for the price differential. But he did explain that, as I'm sure all of you are aware, the cost of warranty has to be factored into the price of the product. If you buy from dealer A and get service from dealer B, then dealer B gets the sharp end of the stick. "We as a company need to protect our dealers in border territories," he explained. The only way to do that is to limit the warranty on product purchased out-of-country."

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  • 3 weeks later...
Drive across the river, buy the tub, stick the $7000 in your pocket, and say screw the warranty.

Oh, and call them back and get the name of the non-Artic place that was going to be fixing it anyway.

Well, you wouldn't be the first Canadian to jump the border for a shopping spree! :P

Cross-border shopping seems to have its headaches, despite the strong looney. Hot tubs aren't on the favored goods list, and the Arctic is made in Canada, so you'd probably have to pay duty and tax at the border. Once you finally get back across! http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/11/05/...rs.html?ref=rss But it still might pay off.

I thought RickJ's comments were sensible and to the point.

A dealer who will say or do anything to get a sale ("You live four hours away? No problem! We'll run out and look at your spa any time you want! Sure, I'll put it in writing! Sign here.") is not the kind of dealer anybody wants or needs. That kind of thing is bad for the industry as a whole.

A dealer who will be honest, even if it costs a sale ("I work hard to keep my customers satisfied, and I'm not sure that I would be able to do that for someone who lives that far outside my service area") is more reputable IMO.

I haven't yet found why our spas should be so much cheaper in the US than in Canada, nor why a book that is $29.95 in Butte is $39.95 (or whatever) back home.

=======

Had a chance to talk to one of our owners recently. His reply about the strength of the CA dollar did not IMO fully account for the price differential. But he did explain that, as I'm sure all of you are aware, the cost of warranty has to be factored into the price of the product. If you buy from dealer A and get service from dealer B, then dealer B gets the sharp end of the stick. "We as a company need to protect our dealers in border territories," he explained. The only way to do that is to limit the warranty on product purchased out-of-country."

There is no duty, as its made in Canada, and just the Pst/Gst is paid (although the US sales tax is refunded) so its still THOUSANDS cheaper in USA.

I cannot figure out, how a tub made in Canada, shipped across the border to USA, the back to Canada, where the US dollar is basically at par, can come in THOUSANDS cheaper!?

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  • 2 years later...

If you cant understand why something bought in a different Country can be cheaper than your Country then you do not understand economics and trade. This is not a hot tub issue at all. This is a government and regulations issue. Why is bottled water more expensive in Canada? I don't know either but I don't think I would blame Arctic Spas for it. Tubs made for sale in the US could very likely be built to a different standard or different specs than a tub for sale in Canada. Dealer issues, cross boarder issues, taxes, shipping concerns etc all play into this equation.

Complaining about a dealer that would rather lose a sale then sell you a product they cant service properly does not make sense to me. They want you to be happy and if the potential exists that they would not be able to make you happy, then they would rather pass on the sale. To me, this just reaffirms why I have been promoting Arctic Spas to my clients for years.

Also, FYI if you call in and ask for pricing from Arctic you will always get the sticker price. When you go in person and allow them to explain how their tubs work, then you get the real pricing. They are about the same as other high end tub retailers in terms of pricing.

S.

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I cannot figure out, how a tub made in Canada, shipped across the border to USA, the back to Canada, where the US dollar is basically at par, can come in THOUSANDS cheaper!?

Two forces are at work, part of it is years of socialist voting in Canada, and part of it is Arctic protecting their dealers. The political part of it is a subject for a different web site.

Any smart manufacturer is going to give protected areas to dealers so the dealer does not have to worry about competition, and the dealer then sets his own margin.

The dealer then makes more money with that product than a manufacturer who does not protect territories, and the manufacturer is assured a faithful client.

You? You get to pay.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You're lucky they're telling you not to buy their product. I wish that was the case for me as my tub has been nothing but a headache. And my calls for help from headquarters have gone unanswered. The guys I bought the tub from have been great at responding to my monthly service issues but I'm fed up as I can honestly say I have a lemon. Fromm day one I've had nothing but problems. Thank god for the warranty but that will run out eventually. The retailers I bought the tub from love me because I'm always in buying stuff after having to empty the tub for servicing.

Ok.. I live in Windsor Ontario, about 5 min from USA Border. I have decided on an Arctic Spa Tundra Legend Extreme. A pretty much loaded spa.

I call the closest dealer in Canada.. they quote $15,999.cnd. + tax = $18,078cnd(4 hour drive away.. but I am about 100km or 60 miles out of their service area).

So.. I call the USA's closest dealer. (1 hour away). They quote $10,500+NO tax as I am out of state. I get a -6% exchange.. pay 13% customs and thus can land it for $11,153.00cnd HUGE HUGE difference.

We start setting up the deal.. and they then say the headquarters wont let them sell to Canada.

I call the head quarters (780 area code) and they say... "if you buy from USA no warranty.. PARTS only, as they cannot come over and repair the tub"

I ask.. why cannot ANY arctic dealer fix it.. (assuming its a simple fix.. I can change jets etc.. so for little stuff I am ok with parts only).

They say NO.. other dealers cannot fix it.. and even if they could your still out of their area by 100km or 60 miles.

So they then say if I buy in Canada from Toronto area.. Its a PARTS ONLY warranty as well.

I ask them.. then why the heck is there a $7000+ difference on a tub made in canada purchased in canada.. why is it so much cheaper in USA?!?!?

No answer.

I ask didnt you have a Windsor dealer..

they reply yess.

Did anyone in Windsor buy the extended SE warranty ?

Yes...

How they heck do you repair their tubs??

they say.. "we hire local NON-ARCTIC spa places to fix the tubs'

Ok.. that will work for me...

they say "NO" Parts only warranty.

I ask then.. "Ok.. what discount do I get as I am now doing my own labour..."

they reply.." None.. what do you mean??"

I ask them.. "So your telling me this.. 1) you say I cannot buy from USA.. 2) I must buy this canadian made tub from a dealer in Canada thats 4+ hours away for $7000 more 3) Either way.. I get a PARTS ONLY warranty... 4) and I get no discount of any sort."

They reply

"Yes.. thats it.. and you would have to sign a letter and send it to the headquarters stating that your get a (no discount) parts only warranty"

I ask.. "if I lived in Toronto.. and bought the tub there.. then moved to Windsor.. would I have a full warranty"

They say "YES!!!"

So what the heck is going on here....

I can move my tub from Toronto to Windsor.. and still get warranty.. but cannot buy it out right.. or from usa saving $7000!!!

I ask them.. "well you dont seem too confident that your tub will go the warranty without a major repair then... as I am able to swap little stuff like jets etc"

They say. "we have a 6% major repair over the 5yr warranty.. so no.."

Crikies!!!

I then ask.. "so your not interested in selling me any spa of any sort"

they reply "No.. just incase you get a lemon or something.. its not worth you getting upset with us.. we had a dealer in Windsor, but not any more.. so we dont want to sell a tub in this Grey area.. nor warranty any tub bought in USA and brought back to Canada. Sorry.. we dont want to sell you a tub."

I thanked them for their honesty.. but wow.. what a crazy company... I was totally blown away...

<b><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->

Now considering a Vita Spa Rendevouz.. any suggestions as to how it compairs to Arctic's Tundera Legend Extreme?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

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You're lucky they're telling you not to buy their product. I wish that was the case for me as my tub has been nothing but a headache. And my calls for help from headquarters have gone unanswered. The guys I bought the tub from have been great at responding to my monthly service issues but I'm fed up as I can honestly say I have a lemon. Fromm day one I've had nothing but problems. Thank god for the warranty but that will run out eventually. The retailers I bought the tub from love me because I'm always in buying stuff after having to empty the tub for servicing.

Ok.. I live in Windsor Ontario, about 5 min from USA Border. I have decided on an Arctic Spa Tundra Legend Extreme. A pretty much loaded spa.

I call the closest dealer in Canada.. they quote $15,999.cnd. + tax = $18,078cnd(4 hour drive away.. but I am about 100km or 60 miles out of their service area).

So.. I call the USA's closest dealer. (1 hour away). They quote $10,500+NO tax as I am out of state. I get a -6% exchange.. pay 13% customs and thus can land it for $11,153.00cnd HUGE HUGE difference.

We start setting up the deal.. and they then say the headquarters wont let them sell to Canada.

I call the head quarters (780 area code) and they say... "if you buy from USA no warranty.. PARTS only, as they cannot come over and repair the tub"

I ask.. why cannot ANY arctic dealer fix it.. (assuming its a simple fix.. I can change jets etc.. so for little stuff I am ok with parts only).

They say NO.. other dealers cannot fix it.. and even if they could your still out of their area by 100km or 60 miles.

So they then say if I buy in Canada from Toronto area.. Its a PARTS ONLY warranty as well.

I ask them.. then why the heck is there a $7000+ difference on a tub made in canada purchased in canada.. why is it so much cheaper in USA?!?!?

No answer.

I ask didnt you have a Windsor dealer..

they reply yess.

Did anyone in Windsor buy the extended SE warranty ?

Yes...

How they heck do you repair their tubs??

they say.. "we hire local NON-ARCTIC spa places to fix the tubs'

Ok.. that will work for me...

they say "NO" Parts only warranty.

I ask then.. "Ok.. what discount do I get as I am now doing my own labour..."

they reply.." None.. what do you mean??"

I ask them.. "So your telling me this.. 1) you say I cannot buy from USA.. 2) I must buy this canadian made tub from a dealer in Canada thats 4+ hours away for $7000 more 3) Either way.. I get a PARTS ONLY warranty... 4) and I get no discount of any sort."

They reply

"Yes.. thats it.. and you would have to sign a letter and send it to the headquarters stating that your get a (no discount) parts only warranty"

I ask.. "if I lived in Toronto.. and bought the tub there.. then moved to Windsor.. would I have a full warranty"

They say "YES!!!"

So what the heck is going on here....

I can move my tub from Toronto to Windsor.. and still get warranty.. but cannot buy it out right.. or from usa saving $7000!!!

I ask them.. "well you dont seem too confident that your tub will go the warranty without a major repair then... as I am able to swap little stuff like jets etc"

They say. "we have a 6% major repair over the 5yr warranty.. so no.."

Crikies!!!

I then ask.. "so your not interested in selling me any spa of any sort"

they reply "No.. just incase you get a lemon or something.. its not worth you getting upset with us.. we had a dealer in Windsor, but not any more.. so we dont want to sell a tub in this Grey area.. nor warranty any tub bought in USA and brought back to Canada. Sorry.. we dont want to sell you a tub."

I thanked them for their honesty.. but wow.. what a crazy company... I was totally blown away...

<b><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->

Now considering a Vita Spa Rendevouz.. any suggestions as to how it compairs to Arctic's Tundera Legend Extreme?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

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