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I recently had the exact same problem. 1 or 2 people got in with bathing suits that were washed in soap/detergent and not very thoroughly rinsed. Caused a ton of foam in a 434gal (1643L) 3-week-old Bullfrog A7, and solved the foaming without having to dump and replace the water. The Bullfrog Owner's Manual says defoamer product only works temporarily (I tested and it's true, only lasts a few days tops), and it says that only super chlorination (aka chlorine shock) will destroy the soap agents. The amount of chlorine needed to super-chlorinate depends on your cyanuric acid level, and best case (with CYA levels between 0 and ~30) is 10ppm FC. Get some AquaChek test strips that show Stabilizer (CYA) levels, go to https://app.poolcalculator.com/, enter in all your numbers, then scroll to the bottom to see the Shock amount needed. Maintain or exceed that shock FC ppm such that you still test that number after at least 4 hours later.

Does anyone know how to edit the low-level configuration on a Bullfrog A7 with a Gecko in.yt7 control system with some sort of customized Gecko in.k1000 touchscreen? The various Gecko documentation for the k1000 shows some items that my touchscreen doesn't have, such as a lock button and the "wheel" menu. Per the Gecko Y-series startup guide: "If none of the pre-programmed low-level configurations in the control system suits your spa model, it is possible to have a personalised system configuration by entering manually the setting parameters (see the corresponding table for your spa’s control system). The available parameters depend on the model. Field programming is only available on certain keypad models" "To get to this menu, press on the Prog (or Light) key for 30 seconds. Use the Up/Down keys to choose settings. Press on the Prog (or Light) key to go to the next parameter." I tried this and no-go. The in.yt7 Quick Start Card shows 30 low-level configurations for Software #361 for both rev.001 and rev.003. My touchscreen only shows 14 low-level configurations, and defaulted to 1. I have no idea if it is set to the correct configuration, my sales spec sheet shows that both Pump1 and Pump2 are the same 2.5HP two-speed pumps, but Pump2 is noticeably weaker. I also don't know when the EOS ozonator runs, whether it's during the filter cycle or 24/7. Also the K1000 manual seems to show different adjustable settings for each of the 2 filters, but my screen only shows 1 filter.

Just 1 or 2 people with bathing suits that were washed in soap/detergent and not very thoroughly rinsed can easily cause a ton of foam in a 434gal spa (this just happened to me, everything was perfectly fine for weeks until someone with a soapy bathing suit got in). The Bullfrog manual says defoamer product only works temporarily (I tested, it's true), and that only super chlorination (aka chlorine shock) will destroy the soap agents. The amount of chlorine needed to superchlorinate depends on your cyanuric acid level, and best case is at least 10ppm. Go to https://app.poolcalculator.com/ enter in all your numbers, then scroll to the bottom to see the Shock amount needed. Maintain or exceed that shock ppm such that you still have that shock amount number after at least 4 hours. This solved my foaming. Removing the soapy water and adding fresh water should eventually work but seems like it could take a long time - perhaps super-chlorinate, then remove the old water after overnight circulation, add new water, super-chlorinate, and repeat until the water no longer foams.

I'm a new and first time hot tub owner, 3 weeks now, and have spent many hours reading lots of posts at PoolSpaForum and TroubleFreePool, so I've only been learning water chemistry for the past 2 weeks. If I say anything wrong, I invite the experts to point out which part is wrong and to provide a reference. I'm sure the experts can't always be on the Internet answering the same questions over and over all the time, so I am sharing my experience and findings since I have the same issue. Here is everything that I have found in my quest to eliminate the itch. Yes, MPS is known to cause contact dermatitis, see: * Gilligan, P., & Horst, A. V. (2010). Allergy to a hot tub water treatment chemical: an unexpectedly common cause of generalized dermatitis in men. The Journal of clinical and aesthetic dermatology, 3(2), 54–56. * (2004, Sept). Cracking Tough Cases of Contact Dermatitis. The Dermatologist, 12(9): "We tested for chlorine, bromo-chloro-dimethylhydantoin, ammonium persulfate, sodium metabisulfite (used to decrease pH), and fragrances because they’re often added to spa water. The patient did not react to the chlorine or bromide, which the typical patient would. However, he did react to the sodium metabisulfite and ammonium persulfate. Ammonium persulfate was used to screen for contact allergy to the potassium persulfate used as shock treatment in the patient’s spa. The patient switched to a chlorine-based sanitizer and shock treatment and began to use other chemicals to adjust the pH levels in his spa. Soon after, his condition cleared." * "If the patient reports using a hot tub, then patch testing with ammonium persulfate (APS), which is available from all major allergen suppliers, should be undertaken. If patch testing is positive, then the patient should be instructed to avoid exposure to hot tubs and swimming pools treated with PPMS-based shock treatments. Alternatives are to use hyperchlorination-based shock treatment or hydrogen-peroxidebased shock treatment, or to drain and refill the hot tub periodically instead of shocking it." (Gilligan, H. (2010). Allergy to a hot tub water treatment chemical: an unexpectedly common cause of generalized dermatitis in men. The Journal of Clinical and Aesthetic Dermatology, 3(2), 54–56.) According to chem geek/Richard, "The decomposition rate of MPS at spa temperatures is about 12% per hour so is 90% decomposed after 18 hours (95% decomposed after 24 hours)" (https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/11366-nature2-and-mps-non-chlorine-shock/) You can get MPS test strips - see https://hottubwarehouse.com/products/aquachek-monopersulfate-test-strips-561682a - first 2 shades = low, middle 2 shades = ok, last shade = high. Nature2 also sells MPS test strips. If you are allergic to MPS or another ingredient in the chlorine-free shock, you really should do a full drain. However, I would bet that you aren't keeping your chlorine levels sufficiently high enough on a daily basis. Aside from MPS, other common sources of skin irritation are: 1) Various bacteria: * Pseudomonas aeruginosa (Osborne, E., Bilalian, C., Cussans, A., & Ostlere, L. (2020). Pseudomonas folliculitis: a complication of the lockdown hot tub boom? Lessons from a patient. The British journal of general practice : the journal of the Royal College of General Practitioners, 71(702), 43–44. https://doi.org/10.3399/bjgp21X714605) * Mycobacterium Intermedium (Edson, R. S., Terrell, C. L., Brutinel, W. M., & Wengenack, N. L. (2006). Mycobacterium intermedium granulomatous dermatitis from hot tub exposure. Emerging infectious diseases, 12(5), 821–823. https://doi.org/10.3201/eid1205.051281) * Legionella (Barton, M. (2017). Legionellosis following water birth in a hot tub in a Canadian neonate. Canadian Medical Association Journal (CMAJ), 189(42), E1311–E1313. https://doi.org/10.1503/cmaj.170711) * Cercarias larvae (Tracz, E. S., Al-Jubury, A., Buchmann, K., & Bygum, A. (2019). Outbreak of Swimmer's Itch in Denmark. Acta dermato-venereologica, 99(12), 1116–1120. https://doi.org/10.2340/00015555-3309) * Staphylococcus aureus (Blicharz, U. (2020). Is itch intensity in atopic dermatitis associated with skin colonization by staphylococcus aureus? Indian Journal of Dermatology, 65(1), 17–21. https://doi.org/10.4103/ijd.IJD_136_19) You didn't mention your exact pH, FC, CC, TC, and CD numbers. Is your FC between 3-5ppm before you get in? Five days of no chlorine is more than enough time for bacteria to repopulate. On a weekly basis or more frequently, do you sustain a shocking level of FC for over 4 hours? The shock FC ppm depends on your CYA; higher CYA means higher FC required to shock (https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/chlorine-cya-chart.2177/, https://app.poolcalculator.com/, https://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html). If you are using dichlor exclusively, your CYA levels may be already too high, requiring more chlorine to do the same amount of sanitization. The most practical way to lower CYA in a spa is to drain and replace with fresh water. Exposure to sunlight/UV breaks down CYA, but according to the 2021 Bullfrog Owner's Manual pages 13, 38, and 46, "WARNING: An empty spa (spa without water in it) must not be left exposed to sunlight as shell damage may occur. Once the spa is unwrapped, fill spa with water immediately or shade the spa with cover to prevent direct exposure to sunlight" (https://1tuyvq3ivrlq1h927b2gtsql-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2021-Bullfrog-Owners-Manual-rev1.1.2-web.pdf). Perhaps an in-line UV sanitizer could help knock CYA levels down enough to allow for use of dichlor tabs through a dose-limiting float feeder. High pH reduces effectiveness of chlorine (https://www.poolcalculator.com/the-relationship-between-pool-chlorine-and-ph/). Hypochlorous acid is what kills bacteria. "At a pH of 7 free chlorine consists of 75 per cent hypochlorous acid and 25 per cent hypochlorite ions. At a pH of 7.8 free chlorine consists of just 28 per cent hypochlorous acid and 72 per cent hypochlorite ions. It can therefore be seen that a swimming pool with a pH of 7 and a free chlorine level of just 0.5ppm has the same sanitising effect as a pool with a pH of 7.8 and a free chlorine level of 1.35ppm." This is why it is necessary to first adjust the pH prior to adding chlorine. Source: Pool industry pioneer and chemistry expert David Lloyd from International Quadratics. The Bullfrog Owner's Manual page 38 concurs, stating "Always test, and adjust the pH level before you test and adjust the sanitizer level." To eliminate the possibility of excessive bacteria causing the itch, get your pH closer to 7, shock with chlorine, then hold this shock level for at least 4 hours, but multiple days would be better to knock the bacteria/biofilms down sufficiently. Then you can run the jets or add some borax to raise pH to a more comfortable 7.4-7.6 for regular use, and then never, ever, let FC go below 3ppm, even when using a mineral/silver additive/filter that claims to enable low chlorine sanitization. Consider the mineral/silver as a second or third layer of defense for when chlorine doesn't work, and not your primary sanitization method. If it's a new tub (you mentioned it was filled 2 weeks ago), it will likely come with all kinds of bacteria from factory wet-testing, transportation across the country, and storage by your local dealer over many months. Even if it's a used tub sitting around empty, you likely have bacteria and biofilms inside the plumbing, and this bacteria can be the cause of skin irritation, coming back very quickly after your chlorine levels get below 2ppm. You need to clear out the biofilms in the plumbing with Ahh-some, kill the bacteria it dislodges with a shocking amount of chlorine, drain, repeat as needed. After refill, always maintain a FC level of 3-5ppm with a 20-40 CYA level, and chlorine-shock to 10ppm once a week or more. Super Sanitation aka Shock is recommended weekly per the Bullfrog Owner's Manual, as "Normal sanitation does not eliminate non-filterable wastes, such as perspiration, oils, hair sprays, etc., which may build up in the water. These substances make the water unattractive, and can interfere with sanitizer effectiveness" If you want to test how long it takes for chlorine to knock out a biofilm, wait for a biofilm to form in your toilet, then drop some dichlor or trichlor tabs in your tank. At the rate I'm seeing, it will take weeks. Ahh-some to dislodge the bacteria and chlorine shock to kill them is the only way. 2) Other sulfates: * There are many non-chlorine shock products on the market, many of them are wishy-washy on the amount of MPS, not to mention the full ingredient list. Some non-chlorine shock MSDS sheets show potassium hydrogen sulfate (10-30%), sodium carbonate (10-30%), magnesium salt of carbonic acid (1-5%), potassium persulfafe (1-5% and a known skin irritant), in addition to the primary ingredient monopotassium salt of peroxymonosulfuric acid (30-60%). Some companies I reached out to told me their product is 60-80% MPS, which is slightly hard to believe if you look at the prices of 100% MPS from a chemical supplier, but I digress. * Dry acid products for reducing pH are generally sodium bisulfate and may also contain sodium metabisulfite, a known skin irritant. To rule out sulfates, do a complete drain and don't add that silver crystal package, don't add any products containing any kind of sulfates, and don't add any chlorine-free shock products that don't list fully itemize their ingredients and percentages. 3) Chlorine/bleach itself. Does your skin get dry/irritated when showering daily with city-chlorinated tap water, or when wearing laundry whites that were bleached and not rinsed really well? To rule out chlorine, you could try switching to bromine, but note that research shows more people are allergic to bromides than to chlorine, and bromine results in higher total amounts of toxic disinfection byproducts than chlorine (Chowdhury, A. (2014). Disinfection byproducts in swimming pool: Occurrences, implications and future needs. Water Research (Oxford), 53, 68–109. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.watres.2014.01.017) 4) pH. Too low is a skin irritant, too high is a skin irritant. The CDC recommends pH 7.2-7.8 and NOT using cyanuric acid or chlorine products with cyanuric acid in hot tubs/spas. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/swimming/residential/disinfection-testing.html "Some hot tub users may find it is more comfortable to keep a pH slightly elevated – closer to 7.6 on the recommended 7.4 to 7.6 range because the hot water can be more likely to cause irritation if it is too acidic." Source: https://www.poolcalculator.com/what-should-ph-levels-be-in-swimming-pools-and-hot-tubs/ 5) Hot water. Some people's skin just don't like being in hot water. To rule this out, have a nice hot soak in your bathtub at the same temperature as your hot tub and for your typical soak duration and see what happens. I did a test on myself to rule out MPS. I've gotten into the tub 15 minutes after adding 26g MPS (the Nature2 recommended pre-soak dosage for 1643L) with my FC at 4. Nothing unusual happened after, so I conclude I'm not allergic to the MPS (Spa Pure Shock from Home Depot, unknown ingredients aside from MPS, and unknown MPS %). My itching issues are generally solved now. Itchy skin with bumps appearing 1-3 days after is correlated with FC levels being 0-2ppm after 12-48 hours, likely causing bacteria growth, solved by adding dry acid to keep pH closer to 7.4 instead of 7.8 (resulting in my true target pH of 7.6 after the pH rise from using jets), plus dosing of 10.8% chlorinating liquid to 10-15ppm instead of 5ppm as my owner's manual suggested, using the pool calculator to factor in my CYA, TA, etc. Also changed my ozonator+filter cycle to start as far as possible from the post-soak chlorine dose, letting more chlorine stay active overnight instead of being consumed by ozone. This results in 3-4ppm FC up to 48 hours later. My itchy skin without bumps 2-24hrs afterwards is sensitivity and dryness caused by bleach/chlorine and/or hot water (spa is kept at 37-38C), and this is corrected by applying moisturizer to the affected areas. Note that laundry washed with bleach has always irritated my skin, so I know for sure that bleach/chlorine residues causes contact dermatitis for me.

First time posting. Been reading these and other forums for the past 3 weeks (as long as I've had my new Bullfrog A7 434gal/1643L with EOS3 ozonator and Wellspring continuous filtration pump and dual-filter system), especially lots of posts by chemgeek, nitro, waterbear, and others. Thanks for your contributions to common learning. I've read many threads on dichlor/bleach, and couldn't find the answer to the original poster's question. I'm an engineer but not in chemical, so I have to ask: 1) When adding MPS and a chlorine source (my case, 10.3% w/w sodium hypochlorite) at the same time, what happens - do they neutralize each other, if so, at what rate, and what are the resulting compounds? The MPS bottle says safe to swim in after 15 minutes - does that mean safe to add chlorine after 15 minutes? 2) Does MPS oxidize only free chlorine, only combined chlorine, or both? At what rates? I've read that it takes 2.8275g of 43% MPS to oxidize 1ppm of Combined Chlorine in 100gal water, and that it takes 14.31g of MPS to oxidize 2.2ppm CC in 1000L of water. However, I've read that MPS often shows up in tests as CC, so you would need the proper reagents to eliminate the MPS when testing CC. I've also read that the decomposition rate of MPS at spa temperatures is about 12% per hour, so 90% decomposed after 18 hours, and 95% decomposed after 24 hours, so could also wait out the decomposition before trying to test CC. Also found that pure MPS is 35.44g per ounce of volume, 6 teaspoons in an ounce volume, 3 tsp in a tablespoon, 2TB in 1oz, therefore you can ballpark 18-21g of 43% MPS in a tablespoon. Nature2 manual requires 1TB/1000L before a soak, and the same after a soak, so for my 1643L, that's 34.5g MPS before a soak, and 34.5g after. 3) Aside from the added expense of using 70g MPS per soak, are there any downsides to dosing this much MPS in addition to maintaining a 3-5ppm FC residual after 24-48hrs? Since MPS slightly lowers pH, this sort of dosage could be desirable since hot tubs tend to have pH creeping up due to aeration. 4) I don't have a Nature2 yet but planning on installing one while also following the dichlor/bleach method to ensure sanitization - any downsides aside from the extra cost of the Nature2? Per using both AquaChek and Bioguard test strips at the same time, and many days of heavy use over the past 2 weeks, all my numbers are very stable. pH 7.8, TA 90-100, TH 300, CYA 100-150 due to first 2 weeks of heavy dichlor granule dosing (factory-installed biofilms) before I started reading these forums and learned about the dichlor/bleach method. I have some unknown amount of borates - my dealer supplied the SoftSoak Trio kit. The first of the trio is a water startup packet contains boric acid and sodium sulfate, next trio component is weekly packets which contains MPS, sodium sulfate, and sodium carbonate, last is a water drain packet containing at least sodium sulfate, to be used after 13 weeks of packets run out (which I will use in conjunction with Ahh-some). Thanks!